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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i think its poison. its used in an attempt to hide one problem, while it will simultaneously create 10 problems to replace the one, which isnt even repaired in the first place.

then when its over, youre most likely left with permanent brain damage.

and youve wasted time being in a state that appears as if youre fine, instead of actually having something done about your problem.

just some years ago, they gave electrocution "help" to homosexuals. theres no way to believe they have magically got it all correct out of sudden.

how about you, other infj's?
 

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I try to avoid it unless it's particularly serious. I definitely wouldn't go anywhere near mental health drugs (anti-depressants etc) as those I know who have used them have all become reliant on them.

It's not a simple black and white argument, and there are always cases where drugs are required, but personally I don't believe I need anything other than the body I was born with to deal with my own health issues.
 

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Good thing you are not a type 1 diabetic.
Assuming you are speaking of psychotropic meds, why should a person live in misery due to depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and other treatable mental disorders? Why should scoiety let a mentally ill person live on the streets because the voices in his head tell him "bad things?" Tardive dyskinesia, e. g. "the stelazine shuffle" is a serious side effect and avoidance requires careful treatment with newer medications. The alternative of a tomented, homicdal or suicidal person is not acceptable.
Consider: a young mam has heard voices telling him to do something "bad", and because he has little if any familiarity with religion, decides that his harents had radios put into his ears so they can talk to him. He is arrested far from home with a loaded gun to defend himself from the "bad peolle" his parents have supposedly sent after him. He is committed to a state facility and treated. He has a good response and can understand the nature of his illness and lead a productive life as long as he takes his meds. Hiis court ordered aftercare includes monitoring hid condition at a local mental health center and living at a halfway house.
The alternative? Death or incarceration. Actual case.
 

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I hope you never get cancer. 'Nuff said...
 

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I definitely think we are an over-medicated world.

That said, I think medication can be incredibly beneficial. I've personally struggled with depression for almost a decade, which I avoided medicating till about eight months ago and in all honesty, I would probably be dead if I hadn't made the decision to medicate. As MrINFJ said, it is not a black and white issue. I think discretion, logic and responsibility should be exercised before considering/prescribing medication but sometimes it's necessary.

I personally look at my medication as a "helper", not a cure. It's allowing me to focus on making positive changes and when I gain enough positive momentum, I will wean myself off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Good thing you are not a type 1 diabetic.
Assuming you are speaking of psychotropic meds, why should a person live in misery due to depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and other treatable mental disorders? Why should scoiety let a mentally ill person live on the streets because the voices in his head tell him "bad things?" Tardive dyskinesia, e. g. "the stelazine shuffle" is a serious side effect and avoidance requires careful treatment with newer medications. The alternative of a tomented, homicdal or suicidal person is not acceptable.
Consider: a young mam has heard voices telling him to do something "bad", and because he has little if any familiarity with religion, decides that his harents had radios put into his ears so they can talk to him. He is arrested far from home with a loaded gun to defend himself from the "bad peolle" his parents have supposedly sent after him. He is committed to a state facility and treated. He has a good response and can understand the nature of his illness and lead a productive life as long as he takes his meds. Hiis court ordered aftercare includes monitoring hid condition at a local mental health center and living at a halfway house.
The alternative? Death or incarceration. Actual case.
ive been in a mania or something for a few years now. its transforming into a bipolar disorder cause im starting to face my depression again. im _overcoming_ my problem this way, how is overcoming problems a bad thing?

mental illnesses have reasons. if you give them meds, you just hide the problem. it doesnt, go, away. the person is just as messed up even with the meds. they wont have a satisfying life at all cause they ignore their problems, instead of fixing.

lets say youre depressed and the meds take it "away".

ohh, now everything is fine? wrong, wheres your emotions gone now? a life without emotions must be so satisfying.

ignoring a portion of yourself will leave you incomplete. everything you experience is a part of you.

and only by fixing the actual cause of the problems can you become whole again.
 

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ive been in a mania or something for a few years now. its transforming into a bipolar disorder cause im starting to face my depression again. im _overcoming_ my problem this way, how is overcoming problems a bad thing?

mental illnesses have reasons. if you give them meds, you just hide the problem. it doesnt, go, away. the person is just as messed up even with the meds. they wont have a satisfying life at all cause they ignore their problems, instead of fixing.

lets say youre depressed and the meds take it "away".

ohh, now everything is fine? wrong, wheres your emotions gone now? a life without emotions must be so satisfying.

ignoring a portion of yourself will leave you incomplete. everything you experience is a part of you.

and only by fixing the actual cause of the problems can you become whole again.
Sorry to interject but I think that's an incredibly uninformed and vaguely offensive opinion. If you want to deal with your depression/anxiety/bipolar etc. without medication, that's completely fine and your choice.

Both my parents are traditional Chinese medicine practitioners so I grew up with a very alternative few on physical and mental health. I'm also somewhat old fashioned when it comes to dealing with my issues. I tend to get on with things and pretend like I'm fine when underneath, I'm catatonic. That was my choice for many years but I realised it was unsustainable so I chose to help myself with western medication until I felt I would get on top of everything.

Medication is not a "cure" or a "quick fix", but I definitely believe it can help.
 

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mental illnesses have reasons. if you give them meds, you just hide the problem. it doesnt, go, away. the person is just as messed up even with the meds. they wont have a satisfying life at all cause they ignore their problems, instead of fixing.
By this, you wrongly imply that every type of mental illness is down to being emotionally messed up, or emotional problems. That's not true for everyone. Some mental disorders are down to very physical reasons (e.g. hormonal imbalance), and you absolutely need meds in that case.

Even in cases caused by external factors (e.g. reactive depression), meds can sometimes be used to make you function in the first place, so you can actually tackle your problems (on your own or with therapy) - instead of lying in your bed all day, feeling nothing and being too numb to even have any kind of emotion.

You have a personal view, that's fine. I'd be careful to generalise though...
 

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I couldn't imagine living without my medications. I take Abilify, Celexa, and Lamictal. I remember one day I forgot to take them, and I was a nervous wreck. I'm not sure I could even go on living without them. If they do nothing else, they at least keep me calm enough that I don't want to hurt myself. And I disagree with you when you say antidepressants take away your emotions, I still have plenty of emotions. Just not the "I want to hurt myself" emotions. I think it is rude for you to say that it is bad for me, I'm working on fixing my problems while I'm on the medication. You act like you can't do both things at once.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
By this, you wrongly imply that every type of mental illness is down to being emotionally messed up, or emotional problems. That's not true for everyone. Some mental disorders are down to very physical reasons (e.g. hormonal imbalance), and you absolutely need meds in that case.

Even in cases caused by external factors (e.g. reactive depression), meds can sometimes be used to make you function in the first place, so you can actually tackle your problems (on your own or with therapy) - instead of lying in your bed all day, feeling nothing and being too numb to even have any kind of emotion.

You have a personal view, that's fine. I'd be careful to generalise though...
my way of reacting to problems is the opposite. i get extremely dutiful, i do everything well, superficially everyone htinks im fine. i also think myself its normal to have problems, instead of doing somehting about them.

but now ive stopped myself from just doing things like normally, started laying in my bed, and everything is starting to make much more sense. for some people, laying in the bed is actually the solution.

i think its fking messed up that modern psychology doesnt count individual differences at all. what is a solution to another is a problem to the next.
 
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what is a solution to another is a problem to the next.
Absolutely true, but that's just proving the point - medication isn't bad for everyone either. If you'd assume so, you'd be devaluing your own statement.

And as for modern psychology not accounting for individual differences - that's also not true as a general statement. Just because you made bad experiences yourself and aren't satisfied with the treatment options given to you, doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else. Individual experiences are just that - individual experiences.
 
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Case-by-case answers necessary (I have tried SSRI's, antidepressants, anti-anxiety aids, sleep aids, stress aids to improve sleep, and pain relievers) with each providing opportunities to become more functional in some way until I could question my thinking and life situations more... even I would not advocate these medications any longer than personally necessary or pretend that every somatic or psychosomatic problem is so straightforward as some suggest (having to focus more on self awareness, route causes, public-personal sense of self and questioning my own thinking more in balanced terms).
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Absolutely true, but that's just proving the point - medication isn't bad for everyone either. If you'd assume so, you'd be devaluing your own statement.

And as for modern psychology not accounting for individual differences - that's also not true as a general statement. Just because you made bad experiences yourself and aren't satisfied with the treatment options given to you, doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else. Individual experiences are just that - individual experiences.
in my country its like this: they think you have problem a, and according to their books, problem a's solution is medicine c. they wont ask if you want it, they just force it.

and i think my time in mental hosp only made me more messed up, and it interfered me from actually using my time to overcome my problems because i was in medicine haze, so i couldnt even think clearly. they also neglected basic emotional needs such as music from me, and it was overall just hell, and waste of life at that.
 
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Ultimately, medication is a very private and personal matter. Everyone is responsible for the state of their own health and if they are an adult, they have the choice to take or not take medications (unless they are in psych ward or something). Educating yourself on side effects before taking medication is important. As the daughter of a doctor, I can see both sides to this, but medication, when prescribed and taken correctly, can truly be life-changing and life-saving. Advancements in medicine over the last few years alone have saved and prolonged lives with the help of medication. With that said, there is no doubt that pharmaceutical companies can be expoloitative and unethical in some cases.
 
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Saying that medications just mask the problems instead of treating them is patently wrong. Clinical depression, bipolar disorder, and schizophrenia occur because of an imbalance of chemicals in the brain. The medications correct this imbalance. They're not perfect, and they often have bad side effects, but if it's a choice between side effects and suicide, I'll take the side effects.

In my case, becoming medicated has gotten me to a point where I'm capable of addressing emotional issues. I spent all my time before medication alternating between severe depression and hypomania. In this state, I couldn't get anything done. I was pretty much incapable of having a normal life. Now I have a chance to do things I would have avoided previously because of my psychological state. I've been a much happier person ever since I started medication. I've had some side effects, but I've worked with the medications and dosages, to get the best result and side effect combination.

For people who are sad but not clinically depressed, I think therapy is the best route to handling the problem. And therapy should be used in combination with medication for the clinically depressed if the person needs more than the medication can provide alone. For people who are severely bipolar or schizophrenic, medication makes life something worth living. They'd be completely insane otherwise, and completely unable to live anything even approaching a normal life.
 

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and only by fixing the actual cause of the problems can you become whole again.
OMG these are the wisest words one could ever say on this highly controversial topic! I do understand that there is a great number of people seriously suffering from physical and psychological ailments, yet daily drugging yourself will not remove the core problem! The cause is untouched, intact, ever so present! I know many don't know of any other cure, and I know I can seem so rude and ignorant saying all this. But it is not my personal opinion, any being graced with rationality and common sense will tell you that, albeit hesitantly.
 

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I think it's ridiculous. For starters, the prescribing and pushing the agenda of pill popping has become a kneejerk reaction by a good many practitioners. It's an atrociously lazy approach, and more often than not the chemical cocktails one may be directed to consume often require continuous tweaking until the body's chemistry doesn't even know which way is up anymore. It's akin to a slightly deranged scientist sitting in a workshop fogged up by a mysterious mist wafting through, holding a beaker in each hand and mixing their contents hoping not to catalyze an explosive reaction.

Medication often isn't addressing the root cause, instead it is just hoping to manage the symptoms until the body is able to get itself back on track. I suppose sometimes systems are damaged to the point where getting back on track is a pipe dream, but there are so many products created for people to reduce morbidities brought on by treating themselves like crap. Instead of working towards eliminating the root cause, chemical crutches are used and abused.

Personally speaking, I went through a period being excessively overweight and assure you that if desired, I could have probably snacked on a smorgasbord of stuff designed to help preventing me from self-destructing from high blood pressure, stratospheric blood sugar levels...you name it. All of this self-corrected and then some by living salubriously!

Also, having been through the rigors of people prodding and poking around in my headspace and being made to suffer through the side effects of various psychotropics, I can say with certainty that the ability to chat with a caring counselor in place of a psychiatrist that ended up dumping me from care due to prohibiting visits from ending with a prescription was infinitely more valuable.
 

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I think of them as little bombs exploding in your system one at a time. When there is enough damage, the system will fall. That's why I always dream of throwing them at a wall. At least when the pills explode out of that bottle, it will hit the wall and not me.
Sadly, I use them because I have been acceptable to it. That is one mistake I don't want to make again
 
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