@jamaix, belated happy birthday wishes!
What does a Si-Fi loop look like?
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Here's one description I found on INTPs ~
Also I care very much about the details. Here is an excerpt describing how INTPs feel about details.
In general INTPs seem to be more content with ambiguity(uncertainty). More content to meander through life. (definitely not all though) While I don't like inflexibility, I need to have a rough idea(tentative plans) of where I am going with my life.
I've read comments from many of the INTPs on this forum, and for the most part can't relate as well to them as I do to the ISTJs. Although I do realize that this could partially be age related. There seems to be quite a few gen z INTPs on this forum. So their interest and maturity would of course differ significantly from my own.
I've had a bit of trouble understanding my INTP son in law. But then he's 25 and I'm 53, so it could be a generational thing.
Nothing super solid, but I definitely lean more towards ISTJ typing.
Overall INTPs seem to more eagerly engage in debate than ISTJs.
Here's one description I found on INTPs ~
I am fine with someone having an opinion different from my own and I am willing to casually discuss differences if they want, but I don't enjoy debating nor do I seek it out. I realize not all INTPs enjoy debate, but it does seem to be more common with INTPs than ISTJs. My INTP son in law seems to enjoy it.
Also I care very much about the details. Here is an excerpt describing how INTPs feel about details.
This does not describe me. I want the details and I tend to notice even minor details.
In general INTPs seem to be more content with ambiguity(uncertainty). More content to meander through life. (definitely not all though) While I don't like inflexibility, I need to have a rough idea(tentative plans) of where I am going with my life.
I've read comments from many of the INTPs on this forum, and for the most part can't relate as well to them as I do to the ISTJs. Although I do realize that this could partially be age related. There seems to be quite a few gen z INTPs on this forum. So their interest and maturity would of course differ significantly from my own.
I've had a bit of trouble understanding my INTP son in law. But then he's 25 and I'm 53, so it could be a generational thing.
Nothing super solid, but I definitely lean more towards ISTJ typing.
I want to clarify a bit. It's not that I'll wilt or anything from a raised voice, but if there are multiple people involved it usually means several people talking at the same time. Each trying to talk over the other. Emotions take over, and it becomes a confusing mess to sort out. This type of situation makes me incredibly uncomfortable and it is hard for me to know how to proceed.There are more ways to express anger than just a temper tantrum. But yeah, if you don't like even raised voices then I don't think we would ever be on the same page hereI don't mind heated arguments. I do lose interest if it's all just emotions taking over with other people if at the same time they don't even want to get to some resolution of the issue. If there is no constructive direction, I'm out. But whether there is such a direction, that doesn't entirely depend on the amount of emotion displayed.
Well, you had some things against ISTJ too in your earlier thread where you were wondering about your typing.
Your current signature about overthinking ("If overthinking situations burned calories, I'd be dead") is pretty INTP, too.
What I said about you seeing broader picture, considering other possibilities whatif's, etc, what do you think about that?
What do you mean by debate, do you mean heated argument?
What kind of details do you care about? This is a bit vague to me as it is now.
No, not all of them, for sure.
I see you as not very strongly P, sure.
That's a good point about there being other factors. MBTI only deals with the function dichotomies and tentatively with a function model beyond that.
What's unclear to me is how these arguments against the INTP typing hold more weight for you than the things you earlier listed against the ISTJ typing (in that earlier thread of yours).
I see. I don't relate to this. But sounds like you'd relate to typical Fe inferior descriptions.
What I do in such situations is, as long as I think I can get things to have a constructive direction, it's ok to be involved in the argument itself, tbh I even enjoy it - I will in part just listen too, get more information where I need to, and try to put together all the bits in my head to create and then push that direction I want things to go in, preferably for the good of everyone, and be quite involved in that way.
If it's truly pure emotionality that does turn arguments into a waste of time, I do lose interest in staying closely involved in the argument process. Not because of being uncomfortable with the emotionality per se though. Just don't like to waste time in an argument without getting anywhere.
Now if there is an important goal/objective, I don't simply walk away there but I will still continue working for it. How, that depends on the situation.
Again I think some of that is due to my age. The older I get the more I realize how much there is that I don't know. I find that I am more cognizant of the fact that there may be many possibilities I am unaware of or may not have considered. Unfortunately, this sometimes means it takes me quite awhile to make up my mind about some things. (overthinking)Well, you had some things against ISTJ too in your earlier thread where you were wondering about your typing.
Your current signature about overthinking ("If overthinking situations burned calories, I'd be dead") is pretty INTP, too.
What I said about you seeing broader picture, considering other possibilities whatif's, etc, what do you think about that?
When I think about it this makes a lot of sense. ISTJs tend to draw upon history. History has taught me that there is often more to the story and that things are often not what they seem to be.
What some call debating I would definitely categorize as heated arguments. I wouldn't mind debates if all involved remained respectful and civil, but that rarely happens. Since that is the case I try to avoid them.
For instance if someone gives me a job to do I want to know exactly what their expectations are. I want expectations to be clearly outlined. I don't want to be given something to do with no clear idea of what the persons expectations are.
From what I've read about INTPs they would find this very boring. It sounds like many of them want to be given freedom to develop things in whatever manner they deem best. Versus me wanting to know what the expectation is.
I've evaluated the descriptions for ISTJ, INTP and ISTP so many times. I find aspects of all three descriptions that I can relate to. And aspects of all three that I can't relate to. I read comments on the ISTJ forum and very often find myself shaking my head in agreement. This does not happen nearly so often when I browse the INTP and ISTP threads. When I go beyond the descriptions and observe the actual people, I find ISTJs to be more like minded.
The thing is, I don't see this to this degree in other ISTJs who are about the same age you are.
OK let's look at something else, how do you relate to the following statements:
"Since they have no direct experience with the new concept, they have no tools for knowing how to deal with it or what to think about it."
"The new, the untried can perplex the ISTJ"
Do you mind that things are often not what they seem to be? Did you ever mind much?
So some INTP's liking to debate... Thing is this is a really bad heuristics. Say 60% of INTPs enjoy heated arguments and 40% of ISTJs enjoy heated arguments. Then we cannot use this to type. Unnecessary detail, hardly relevant to type. If it was like, 95% of INTPs enjoyed it and 5% of ISTJs did then it would be a lot more relevant.
Why do you need to know exactly their expectations? INTP may want to know too but for a different reason than ISTJ.
I do feel some similarity between us (I mean I find it really easy to read some of your posts, even if some other posts of yours include another aspect that I can't relate to), and I see how you fit here in some ways, yeah, I'm not debating that part at all.
IxTx and something like Si, that's already a lot in common.Hmm, the thing is, I use a very different coping mechanism (I might've mentioned this before in somewhat less detail): my mind simply blocks out the possibilities, I may see the "worst possible" sometimes but I again try to not focus on that and instead focus on figuring out concrete steps to deal with the situation. Keeping the clarity as much as I can. The thing is though, in complex situations, I end up getting disoriented still, I run around that way, wasting time to find the right direction, and it takes a while to get back on track having found a solution. Strong Ne supposedly would easily find some way out.
The tip about developing Ne to see a more balanced view of a situation... uhh, if this means, "things could go better actually", seeing many positive possibilities, or something, I guess, it works in the sense that it takes the mind off the bad possibility that it got a bit stuck on. So that the focus on it is no longer disproportionately strong.
Well by default, as I said I quickly take the focus away from the Ne stuff by concentrating on objective analysis to find a concrete solution but yes, sometimes it helps make my mind un-stuck if I consider another possibility. The problem is only that it's very hard for me to see a second possibility. Once I see it, I'm fine, and I lose interest in the whole thing actually, that is, in "what could be". It's definitely a relief.
Now with the above idea of developing Ne, the idea of considering more than just a second possibility but actually many/all of them so that it's ensured the focus is not disproportionately on one possible (but unverified) outcome, well it would be extremely hard to get this mindset and I do not feel like I would want to stay focused on such a mindset for long. It would make me feel like I lose my concrete aim and that's not good. All in all, best just not to look at any of the possibilities without concrete reasoning directly leading there.
Ha, well, I relate to analyzing a lot about the F side of things and that coming later in life for me.
No, I cannot at all relate to this in the way presented. I turn my anger externally instead of onto myself. (No, I don't take it out on innocent people.) To be more precise, I would be angry in general about the situation that includes the rain and the missing umbrella and all that. It doesn't include myself personally. But yes, I can fix it by objectively assessing the situation.
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