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Also, INTPs do have emotions! The thing about inferior Fe (that doesn't get talked about enough as much as it should for some reason) is that it can go either way; we either are underemotional and find it hard to tune into and understand the feelings of others or are actually quite emotional people, but find it hard to control it or use it appropriately. I'm an INTP who is prone to emotion, and I envy Feelers in their ability to use their emotions to their advantage, to foster creativity and relationships and harmony. Every function is incredibly useful in it's own way if used in a healthy manner.
Oh, very much agreed. Those emotions that do get through our emotional shields and barriers are quite potent and when they do end up getting released, it's not usually pretty. Or coherent. As well, we poo-poo emotions mainly, I think, because they have no place in our paradigm and run counter to that which we value most, pure, unsullied knowledge. However that is not to say there is not admiration for the feelers. While we seek and strtve to understand and tear down and rebuild life, they get to enjoy it. They get to have deeper bonds and relationships. They can understand each other on a level that I do not comprehend or really experience.
 

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Discussion Starter #102
Oh, very much agreed. Those emotions that do get through our emotional shields and barriers are quite potent and when they do end up getting released, it's not usually pretty. Or coherent. As well, we poo-poo emotions mainly, I think, because they have no place in our paradigm and run counter to that which we value most, pure, unsullied knowledge. However that is not to say there is not admiration for the feelers. While we seek and strtve to understand and tear down and rebuild life, they get to enjoy it. They get to have deeper bonds and relationships. They can understand each other on a level that I do not comprehend or really experience.
Since INTPs are usually 5w6 Ennegram orientated, I wonder if that plays apart of how emotional they are? 5w6 usually wants a good reputation and Fe can play apart as well. I know it also works similarly for both INTXs, and can be very awkward when they express discomfort with a situation with their emotions.
 

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Mm i'll describe my impression of Ti usage.

In essence it's the act of breaking down a object. Essentially you get rid of the fluff and appearances of a object to understand its fundamentals. For example, if you came across a new game you'd ignore all of the graphics and pay attention to the gameplay. Understanding the fundamentals of how the game works, the rules, the classes, etc. That's a pretty bad example. Let me think of another one. Okay it's like seeing the blueprints of a thing. The blue prints don't have the interior or exterior decoration of the house, for example. But you understand the mechanics of the house. Where the stairs are, where the gas lines and other things are. So you pay no attention to the form, rather you pay attention to the function. So essentially Ti strips away all of the fancy things and looks at the core fundamentals. And it does this for everything. Even people, in my experience. Instead of focusing on the superficial looks of a person, you look at the core and label it. So while two hipsters might not look alike superficially, they'd be put in the same box based on the fundamentals seen. Therefore, Ti is very cold, because it ignores what Michael Pierce calls the Fe, or what I call fluff. Some people love the fluff and that's why there's people who focus on the graphics in a game rather than the gameplay. Now Ti + Ne combination is seen when the Ti Ne user would notice similarities in two different objects. So for example, a Ti user might understand the core of a water tank in their house, and then say those fundamentals, or core, is similar to that of a water tower. So if this person was a expert on water tanks, then they'd probably know a lot about water towers from their experience. So in a way the knowledge is cumulative. That's why Ti Ne users can learn new concepts quickly, because they take fundamentals learned from prior experience and use that in understanding new things that match similar fundamentals.
 

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@grimoire Yep! And no, it's not silly. Sites often seem to require an underscore instead of a space. And no problem. :)


Back to the question of what Ti feels like..

Whichever main function I use.. Ti? Ni? Se? This describes the learning process a bit:
It's like you have a vase, and people are talking to you in a foreign language about the vase. So you smash the vase. Now you can understand the vase, and future vases that are of a similar design. Suddenly things seem more obvious, instead of reconstructing the vase you lay the essential pieces out and examine them further.. You can now use your knowledge about the vase to help you understand the language that they speak- what they're really saying. They can teach you things that you may not have observed, and you can provide theories and bits of information that they might not have realised.

I can also 'sense' where the logic isn't strong in a statement. Like there's something in the back of my head that feels annoyed or confused or empty, like something doesn't quite fit. I then dissect the statement until I find the problem. And then point it out.
 

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Discussion Starter #107
@grimoire Yep! And no, it's not silly. Sites often seem to require an underscore instead of a space. And no problem. :)


Back to the question of what Ti feels like..

Whichever main function I use.. Ti? Ni? Se? This describes the learning process a bit:
It's like you have a vase, and people are talking to you in a foreign language about the vase. So you smash the vase. Now you can understand the vase, and future vases that are of a similar design. Suddenly things seem more obvious, instead of reconstructing the vase you lay the essential pieces out and examine them further.. You can now use your knowledge about the vase to help you understand the language that they speak- what they're really saying. They can teach you things that you may not have observed, and you can provide theories and bits of information that they might not have realised.

I can also 'sense' where the logic isn't strong in a statement. Like there's something in the back of my head that feels annoyed or confused or empty, like something doesn't quite fit. I then dissect the statement until I find the problem. And then point it out.
I often try to do the same thing. Sometimes I'm out of balance and I knock away peoples idea the minute I hear something that sounds different and unrelated. I really hate this but because its their perspective, I have to just stuff the information away and arrange where all the pieces go later. It makes passionate debating impossible because I'm holding myself on a leash.
 

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For me it's calmness. There's always another way at looking at things. Another angle.

I never accept anything on face value. I rarely ever am so convinced by someone based on their strength of voice that I'll just accept what they say.

If someone insults or criticizes me, I wont change my life immediately.

There's always another way. My way.

---------

E.G.

Most people say "drifters are losers".

I say -

"Well, I'm sure there are many advantages of being a drifter on top of the disadvantages. You'll be far more difficult to track if you have enemies. You'll have a bigger sense of freedom. You can roam where you want, as long as you can look after yourself. You'll have a strong sense of self reliance. A lot of your responsibilities are alleviated..."

I think Ti dom people have difficulty believing there's a 100% perfect way of looking at something.

Ti users aren't always interested in having a set in stone answer, but analyzing something and seeing all it's variables.
 

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This ressource is quite well explained :

 

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"Want McDonald's?"

Do I want McDonald's? ::McDonald's-restaurant-fast food-Ray Croc-McDonald brothers-Golden Arches-hamburger-Big Mac-Happy Meal-Disney toys-H1B visa layoffs-Filet o' Fish-Friday Catholics-mackerel snappers-fries-value menu-franchise options-Burger King-White Castle-Wendy's-Ronald McDonald-Grimace-Mayor McCheese-creepiness-children's hospital-Artie Lange-McNuggets-sweet & sour-paper hats-quality vs quantity-Fuddruckers-Kobe beef-salads-superficial health awareness marketing ploy-dollar menu-McDouble-processed cheese food-salt-Japanese McDonald's burgers look picture perfect-teriyaki burgers-regional work ethics-chemical shakes-Shamrock shakes-McRibs-pink slime-Thousand Island dressing isn't a secret-horrible Sesame Street bus pun-advertising-drive thru window-paper bag of cash mistakes-limit of ten per customer-Are you going to make me come in there?-apple pie-What's in my wallet?-Capital One-get back on track-breakfast menu-What time is it?-minimum wage-spit-Hungry?-No pizza like options-coffee-three million dollar lawsuit::

"Sure, why not." (Timing of response may vary)
"Please help me. The world is spinning and I'd like to get off."


Is it really knowledge? Can we know anything? Is the sky blue?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_vision
Your Color Red Really Could Be My Blue | Color Perception
Theory of color

We know we don't all see it as blue. People have colour vision deficiencies .

Do we see the sky as blue at night? Can people be perceiving the night sky while people are perceiving the 'blue' one?
Daniel Dennett. 1991. Reeeeead it.

@ScientiaOmnisEst - I meant nothing of the sort. I cautioned against relying too heavily on detached logical thinking, and suggested that logic untempered by feeling is as dangerous as feeling untempered by logic (one or the other being the cause of every historic and future atrocity (extreme example)). There is, in fact, a 50/50 split between thinkers and feelers in the general population. This reflects a simple truth - all thinkers feel, all feelers think, and we must all do our best to balance the two in our everyday lives. Stifling our subordinate functions leads to internal disharmony, and when a stifled subordinate function rears its head, it hurts. No one is immune to the pain of conflict (well, excluding psychopaths). You can run, but you'll eventually have to face the music. Instead of fighting the subordinate aspects of our nature, I suggest that everyone should work on strengthening their weaknesses.
Have some feels.
 

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It's not all that bad...it may look overwhelmingly linear in print but the actual experience is closer to a three dimensional matrix.
Heh, linear I could handle. My brain looks a lot like that, but I go more in straight lines. "I'm with you, I'm with you... H1B visas? Wtf? And now you're back to McDonalds!" It's like a bunch of loops that all circle back to the original point whereas mine's more like one-way train.
 

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Ti is a curiosity, also a mode of viewing the world. It always asks the question of "why" and wants to delve, get to the bottom. Taking in events, facts, people, sorting them, what makes sense, forming conclusions, coming up with new ideas. It forms a viewpoint, and may find fault in the way that what's established operates. Thinking of alternatives, is where ne plays in, those alternatives going with the inner system. On a level, lower fe takes in the information about the environment, people, and is the glue that holds it all together.

On the surface, a ti user may appear detached, especially to those who don't know us well. Ne and ti play together to take in information. It can be pretty flexible, but when something just doesn't fit, it gets stubborn. Ti may also not want to let go of a certain concept, and can be singleminded. There is a creativity to it, but the ne mostly plays a role in this, them working together.
 

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Ti is that asshole that undermines every single initiative that comes to mind by showing you it's weaknesses or pointlessness wrt the big picture.

It's the engine of nihilism.
 

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I'm aware that I do it, but I cant decide how much I use it. While I' working on determining my type, I'm doing my best to recognize functions in myself. I have pretty poor Fi and weak Te, and I recently learned about Fe and that I have a weak but developing sense of it. So coming to Ti dominants, what is an example of Ti or how does it feel.
Ti oh no! ti ti ti!!! taaaaah!!!!
 
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