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Discussion Starter #5
*grabs popcorn from other thread so he won't be hungry while watching this thread die*

:wink:
Your answer affirmed my thinking, that istj's use their sense function to interact with outside stimuli. I just need a few more istj's to confirm it.
 

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My sensing function is how I perceive everything! Basically, I perceive reality through my internal archetypes and conceptions of things. The fire is comforting because it is warm, and warmth is a comforting thing. I do not connect the idea of warmth with a specific real world instance in my life like Se would, but with a vague abstract idea of it. Si dominants ultimately trust their own perception and comprehension of something most highly. If somebody walked up to me and said "Hey, there's evidence of this floating turtle in space but there is no way for you to observe it or comprehend the evidence", then it's pointless. If we are to be generous, the most I could say is that it wasn't a part of the reality I can perceive and live in.

You must understand, the question "What does your S mean to you" is not a particularly inviting question for an ISTJ. It assumes that it necessarily has some sort of meaning existing-sometimes the N insistence of "true meaning" in a situation drives me up the wall. Unless you meant "what is your understanding of your S function", which is totally fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
My sensing function is how I perceive everything! Basically, I perceive reality through my internal archetypes and conceptions of things. The fire is comforting because it is warm, and warmth is a comforting thing. I do not connect the idea of warmth with a specific real world instance in my life like Se would, but with a vague abstract idea of it. Si dominants ultimately trust their own perception and comprehension of something most highly. If somebody walked up to me and said "Hey, there's evidence of this floating turtle in space but there is no way for you to observe it or comprehend the evidence", then it's pointless. If we are to be generous, the most I could say is that it wasn't a part of the reality I can perceive and live in.

You must understand, the question "What does your S mean to you" is not a particularly inviting question for an ISTJ. It assumes that it necessarily has some sort of meaning existing-sometimes the N insistence of "true meaning" in a situation drives me up the wall. Unless you meant "what is your understanding of your S function", which is totally fine.
Thanks, you're right. Asking what is your understanding of your S function would have been much better.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
All of the functions interact with outside stimuli in the sense that they are how we process the information gleaned from the interaction. Here's a link that explains the basics:

Understanding the 8 Jungian Cognitive Processes (8 Functions)
So according to Jungs definitions, you would value Se over Si?
Since you describe your understanding of how you use your sense function as interacting with outside stimuli?
Outside, being in an extroverted fashion, as opposed to Si, which has no interest in interacting with outside stimuli.

The reason I am asking is because Jungs definition of the functions differ from Myerrs Briggs interpretation and there seems to be a lot of confusion because of this. I don't think they should have switched the function order for the introverts the way they did. The way Jung describes the Introverted Thinking type, matches up a lot better with the style of thinking I have seen amoung istj's. It's valueing what you think, your personal thinking, over the thinking of the day/ what is currently accepted.

Also, saying that a person who leads with Si, which is a perceiving function, and then calling them a judger, just seems wrong to me. Jung clearly stated in "Psychological Types" that if you lead with a perceiving function you will be a perceiver.
It makes a lot more sense for an istj to lead with Ti and Se. Since Ti is a judging function.

Does this make sense?
 
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So according to Jungs definitions, you would value Se over Si?
Since you describe your understanding of how you use your sense function as interacting with outside stimuli?
Outside, being in an extroverted fashion, as opposed to Si, which has no interest in interacting with outside stimuli.

The reason I am asking is because Jungs definition of the functions differ from Myerrs Briggs interpretation and there seems to be a lot of confusion because of this. I don't think they should have switched the function order for the introverts the way they did. The way Jung describes the Introverted Thinking type, matches up a lot better with the style of thinking I have seen amoung istj's. It's valueing what you think, your personal thinking, over the thinking of the day/ what is currently accepted.

Also, saying that a person who leads with Si, which is a perceiving function, and then calling them a judger, just seems wrong to me. Jung clearly stated in "Psychological Types" that if you lead with a perceiving function you will be a perceiver.
It makes a lot more sense for an istj to lead with Ti and Se. Since Ti is a judging function.

Does this make sense?
Yes, but it would seem that you are confusing the various aspects of the cognitive functions.

Se interacts with the object where it is, as it is, while Si interacts with the object by an internal comparison process, which what is meant by "what is evoking what was."

Ti is a function of reaching an understanding of the object through an internal process of logical deduction - one which values the internal reasoning process over the external or empirical data. Te is opposite this in that Te seeks to order and understand logically, but appeals to external data.

All functions interact with the object, which is outside of self, but some interact with it internally while others interact with it externally.

Judging and perceiving are simply indicators of the direction of energy in your primary perceiving function, whether Ne, Ni, Se, or Si, while E/I indicates the direction of energy of your dominant function. So as ISTJs, our dominant function is Si, making us an introvert and a judger. This can throw you off because we do not present Si to the outside world, but instead present Te, since it is our primary extroverted function. Compare this to an ESTJ, who shares the same functions, in a different order. The ESTJ's dominant function is Te, so this makes them an extrovert, but their primary perceiving function is still Si, which makes them a judger. And like the ISTJ, the ESTJ puts forth their Te for all of the world to see. Compare this chart:

MBTI Cognitive functions | Life as a Project

You are correct that ISTJs value what they think over what is the currently accepted thought about a topic, but they do this for different reasons than a Ti dominant would. We base our thinking on fear of change and our understanding of the present being based on what worked in the past. A Ti dominant will base their thinking on fear of losing themselves or fear of statis, and searching for logical inconsistencies of the object being processed.

HTH
 

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Discussion Starter #11
ok, I have a big post to make in reply but I have to go now. I can see what you are saying though.
 
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Tell me about your S function.

Edit- What is your understanding of your S function?
Here's my 2 cents.

I have a LOT of health problems. So, a huge part of my Si is devoted to constantly comparing how my body is feeling to how it's supposed to feel. Most of those sensations are centered in my abdomen because I have scoliosis and digestive problems. I'm in pain most of the time (which I'm managing with meditation and yoga). As I'm overcoming my health problems, my Si is getting more sensitive and I can figure out pretty quickly if something is off.

My Se is mostly undeveloped (see my siggy). I'm usually pretty oblivious to my surroundings, but thanks to my bad knees I can describe in detail every stairway, steep incline and the insides of all the elevators of places I go.
 
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