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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi ENTJs!
I want to ask you something... Approaching MBTI brings to believe some stereotypes.
One of this stereotype is: Te users (dom & aux) are assholes.

I will tell you now my personal experience, whereas every ESTJ I knew seems to be pretty insensitive and rude, every INTJ I know, including me, is a total asshole, I cannot explain why every single ENTJ I knew seems to be extremely kind and skillful when it comes to deal with people.

Today an ENTJ friend of mine, speaking with some people against animal testing, showed me an incredible communication ability. He was assertive, calm, kind and explained his position with rationality and in a very polite and well-mannered way. I contrariwise lost my patience very soon and when they start personal attack I start humiliate them in a very aggressive way, my friend continue to smile and act politely instead.
Same thing happen with my father's ENTJ partner. She's very smart and able with people, very kind and gentle and can obtain everything she want from people.

I'm 100% sure they're ENTJ and not ENFJ, they show so many NT characteristics and the tests confirm their type too.

So my question are:
- Why INTJs seems to be more rude and insensitive with people than ENTJs? Isn't Te the function responsible of these behaviors?
- Why the same thing happen with ESTJs? They shared the same dominant function with you, but it seems they have a complete different way to approach people.
- What do you think is the explanation for this? Did I know only atypical ENTJs?

Thanks for your answers ENTJs! I really like you! ;)
 

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ENTJs can be very friendly just like an INFP can be an absolute terror. Te on its own can potentially be tactless, rude, and impatient, thank god that
1. There are other functions in the stack. A well developed individual may very well have little resemblance to the personality descriptions floating around, which tend to mostly just take the dominant function into account, letting it balance itself somewhat on its auxiliary function just enough to distinguish it from its sister type, and ignore the tertiary and inferior functions all together.
and
2. A person's personality and temperament is not only represented by 8 abstract concepts meant to describe cognition rather than behavior.

I will mention two things now though:
1. ESTJs seem to be the most common type in many countries. You have that many people, you're going to get a higher amount of rude jackasses.
2. Most people who claim to be INTJs don't know what they're talking about. I've met a ton of supposed "INTJs" and a huge amount of them can probably be broken up into mistyped INTPs, INFJs and INFPs. INTJ is a very easy result to get and the common perception of them is very attractive to some people's egos.
 

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@Rebelgoatalliance has a lot of truth in his post.

I'm an ENTJ and I have no doubt about it. The most outrageous suggestion was made elsewhere that I'm an INFJ... But mind you the person would have felt better if I was an INFJ because it would have explained some things about me in a more rational manner than if I was an ENTJ. Some people try to believe what they wanna believe especially if it helps them to feel better about themselves...

It's all complicated, but while I'm very insensitive and have no empathy and little sympathy, I am also deeply emotional in my own way. And that can be mistaken for empathy. Like in another thread someone mentioned that ENTJs can be so charismatic that it can even be mistaken for empathy. Same here, but it's not empathy.

My first threads here said that I hate being emotional but I meant a particular kind of emotional. There are emotional states that I like too.

In @tantomoriremotutti example I would simply be logical and INFJs would ooze their hormones over me being emotional and empathizing. Bullshit, I'm just logical and I'm feeling like having a calmer argument. I even used to call up this INFJ and talk to her when I would be tired and feel like having an argument. It's all good fun and she would ofttimes doubt that I'm an ENTJ after an evening with me.
 

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I'm usually a pretty loud jerk, but if I want to be nice, assertive or tactful I will be.

Depends who it is. If it's someone I really respect, I'm not going to be loud. Depending how an ENTJ develops depends how they handle people. As ENTJ's handle nearly all people the same way, the standards they set up for that determine their character.
 

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2. Most people who claim to be INTJs don't know what they're talking about. I've met a ton of supposed "INTJs" and a huge amount of them can probably be broken up into mistyped INTPs, INFJs and INFPs. INTJ is a very easy result to get and the common perception of them is very attractive to some people's egos.
Truer words have never been spoken. I can tell just by speaking for a few minutes with 75% of the supposed 'INTJs' I've communicated with that they looked up MBTI on google and thought the nickname 'Mastermind' was badass.
 

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2. Most people who claim to be INTJs don't know what they're talking about. I've met a ton of supposed "INTJs" and a huge amount of them can probably be broken up into mistyped INTPs, INFJs and INFPs. INTJ is a very easy result to get and the common perception of them is very attractive to some people's egos.
While mistypes do happen often, I wouldn't represent potential flaws in the INTJ type as mistypes. The same is done to INFJs and I too often see it as a product of type glorification.

Tertiary Fi is more likely involve their personal selves in a debate than inferior Fi. Personal involvement is required to express the type of aggression we're speaking about. Lack of tact wouldn't cause aggression, it'd just not care about aggression. Aggression and feeling attacks require personal involvement and INTJs more readily bring that to the table than ENTJs. It will be phrased in an impersonal way, but the motivation was indeed personal.
 

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So my question are:
- Why INTJs seems to be more rude and insensitive with people than ENTJs? Isn't Te the function responsible of these behaviors?
- Why the same thing happen with ESTJs? They shared the same dominant function with you, but it seems they have a complete different way to approach people.
- What do you think is the explanation for this? Did I know only atypical ENTJs?

Thanks for your answers ENTJs! I really like you! ;)
- I would argue that Fi is responsible for the asshole behavior. Also, the kindness of ENTJs is often kind of a cold one, if not arguably 'fake'. It tends to be a pragmatic kindness.
- I would also argue that ESTJs lack the imagination to dress their behavior up or individuate themselves. They tend to look like logical beasts to me, betraying what comes off as a hollowness.
- Kindness and social dexterity are useful. It would be illogical to not pick up this tool.
 

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While mistypes do happen often, I wouldn't represent potential flaws in the INTJ type as mistypes. The same is done to INFJs and I too often see it as a product of type glorification.

Tertiary Fi is more likely involve their personal selves in a debate than inferior Fi. Personal involvement is required to express the type of aggression we're speaking about. Lack of tact wouldn't cause aggression, it'd just not care about aggression. Aggression and feeling attacks require personal involvement and INTJs more readily bring that to the table than ENTJs. It will be phrased in an impersonal way, but the motivation was indeed personal. Of course, Se is also a major part of this aggression, but in a different way.
Would've been a perfect post if not the INFJs, what's so glorifying about them? Rhetorical.

Now to the perfect part: I could never understand all that personal shit some people seem to feel, you coined it man.

- I would argue that Fi is responsible for the asshole behavior. Also, the kindness of ENTJs is often kind of a cold one, if not arguably 'fake'. It tends to be a pragmatic kindness.
What do you mean, could you elaborate? This sounds like it could be interesting.
 

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There are : Self-aware people and not self-aware people.

Te-doms( and Te-Aux as well) basically remain as decisive, logical, frank and straightforward in delivering their thought or opinions.

Self-aware Te-doms would likely know how to control and deliver their honest mind in more acceptable way.

Not-so-self aware Te-doms are what make us define them "asshole". They deliver their thoughts in a raw way. Therefore "rude".

Same goes with other types ain't it. It is just that... External Judging functions are blatantly shown on the outside and affect directly to people around their user. It is easier to be spotted when they are not developed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
ENTJs can be very friendly just like an INFP can be an absolute terror. Te on its own can potentially be tactless, rude, and impatient, thank god that
1. There are other functions in the stack. A well developed individual may very well have little resemblance to the personality descriptions floating around, which tend to mostly just take the dominant function into account, letting it balance itself somewhat on its auxiliary function just enough to distinguish it from its sister type, and ignore the tertiary and inferior functions all together.
and
2. A person's personality and temperament is not only represented by 8 abstract concepts meant to describe cognition rather than behavior.
Yes, I can see your point... Actually I made a mistake by assuming that behavior was directly linked with functions.

I will mention two things now though:
1. ESTJs seem to be the most common type in many countries. You have that many people, you're going to get a higher amount of rude jackasses.
2. Most people who claim to be INTJs don't know what they're talking about. I've met a ton of supposed "INTJs" and a huge amount of them can probably be broken up into mistyped INTPs, INFJs and INFPs. INTJ is a very easy result to get and the common perception of them is very attractive to some people's egos.
I don't think that mistype mistakes are the problem here, that's because I live in Italy and practically no one knows MBTI.
I've met people on the web who seems to adapt their behavior to the stereotype of INTJ, INFJ and so on... But I don't think the same things happen here. In fact I was wondering why INTJs and ESTJs seems to fit the stereotype (partly) whereas the same thing don't happen with ENTJs.
I think it's more likely that I was the one who made a mistake by typing them.
Also my experience is extremely limited... I knew only 3 other INTJs and 3 ENTJs, so the sample is not so statistically significant.

Anyway thanks for your response, it was precious!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
While mistypes do happen often, I wouldn't represent potential flaws in the INTJ type as mistypes. The same is done to INFJs and I too often see it as a product of type glorification.

Tertiary Fi is more likely involve their personal selves in a debate than inferior Fi. Personal involvement is required to express the type of aggression we're speaking about. Lack of tact wouldn't cause aggression, it'd just not care about aggression. Aggression and feeling attacks require personal involvement and INTJs more readily bring that to the table than ENTJs. It will be phrased in an impersonal way, but the motivation was indeed personal. Of course, Se is also a major part of this aggression, but in a different way.
This is gold, really.
For a while I thought I was mystyped, I starting doubt I could be ISTJ, ISTP, ISFP, INTP, INFP... So I stopped trying to type myself and started to type others to understand the differences between the types with an outside perspective.

What I saw was that "Lack of tact wouldn't cause aggression, it'd just not care about aggression" is typical of INTPs, correct me if I'm wrong, whereas "It will be phrased in an impersonal way, but the motivation was indeed personal" is shockingly true for INTJs...

Whereas an INFP wouldn't hide his/her ethic motivation, an INTJ will fake a logical and objective approach to demonstrate something he believe in. I saw this many, many times... After I saw this behavior in other INTJs I realized that every important decision of my life was pushed by Fi, a part of me I wasn't even aware of...

An INFJ otherwise would try to convince you of the rationality of his/her thought by manipulating you with Fe.

Why do you say ENTJs are less pushed by Fi? What's your explanation? Isn't paradoxical that a less developed function is more controllable than a more developed one (Repressed Fi against tertiary Fi)?
 
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-INTJs have a different way of expression than ENTJs so its not really surprising that they treat others differently.
-ESTJs are overseers... they like things to follow rules/orders/be accomplished. They are like a drill sergeant, that's their mannerisms. I actually very much enjoy ESTJs because they are also direct and very efficient. Although being efficient comes with hurting peoples feelings... I find ESTJs more like to have things done to the rule book and also over see that others will accomplish said task where as ENTJs share the pain with their team members and also participate to achieve the end goal. So a reasonable amount of marshaling combined with a team player attitude is very effective for leadership. our directness towards the other team members can be rough, but we are much harder on ourselves which the other team players see.

I actually really like both INTJs and ESTJs. What I wouldn't want though is a ESTJ boss... I think my previous boss was ESTJ but an unhealthy one... we did not get along in terms of work. It was a constant battle. Mostly because ENTJs don't respond well to "Do it because I said so" attitudes.

I would not say I am kind or nice or friendly.
I would say I am thought and reasonably charismatic if I want to be.
ENTJs look at the big picture, long term goal type things which can tie into thoughtfulness.
 

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You overthink my friend...

Every personality have their own conflicts and understandings of what is good and what is bad. You just need to have the right keys to make ENTJ become friendly with you.

Im ENTJ and I can tell you 1 conflitct that is on my mind with beeing kind:

Its fear of investing into something, until you are tottaly sure, that this thing that you are investing into will not get away from you.
Afraid to give something, to receive nothing in demand.

And alot of people probably are too damn dumb, to ask or expect something, while beeing insecure or ENTJ can see you as a "useless investment"
Or maybe its just for me? Im very sensitive though...
 

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Why do you say ENTJs are less pushed by Fi? What's your explanation? Isn't paradoxical that a less developed function is more controllable than a more developed one (Repressed Fi against tertiary Fi)?
I don't think INTJs involve their Fi in arguments because they can't control it, the opposite actually. They're more comfortable with Fi judgments, so they more readily involve it. The ENTJ probably has trouble synthesizing Fi judgments, so will involve it less in a debate. In the same way that an INTP will probably disregard Fe judgments more than an ENTP would. It's still tertiary, so the INTJ won't be as aware of the Fi judgment as he would be if he had Fi on the higher end, but he will still make the judgment more than the ENTJ.
 

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Strong Te-Fi users are usually confident in their opinions. Some people view confidence and assertiveness as rudeness, which is simply false.
Of course some individual TJs can be rude, but in general, most of them don't want to hurt anyone.
I grew up being close to some TJs so I know they can be blunt sometimes, but they usually have good intentions.
 

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2. most people who claim to be intjs don't know what they're talking about. i've met a ton of supposed "intjs" and a huge amount of them can probably be broken up into mistyped intps, infjs and infps. Intj is a very easy result to get and the common perception of them is very attractive to some people's egos.
This.
 

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Hi ENTJs!

So my question are:
- Why INTJs seems to be more rude and insensitive with people than ENTJs? Isn't Te the function responsible of these behaviors?
I think this is more about the difference between introverts and extroverts. Introverts tend to gather information on their own by researching. Extroverts tend to gather information by speaking to others and bouncing around their ideas. Since introverts tend to spend more time alone, this may account for some of the awkwardness in dealing with people that may occur. This probably holds true in general, but let's not paint everyone with this brush. I'm sure there are plenty of introverts with good people skills, and extroverts lacking them.

- Why the same thing happen with ESTJs? They shared the same dominant function with you, but it seems they have a complete different way to approach people.
I don't think you can look at just a single function and compare ENTJs and ESTJs. I think you can find examples of how we deal with people most clearly in the differing management styles, which take in to account all of our functions expressed as a whole:

ESTJs organizational skills tend to be more focused on "how". They work from a set of standards. They manage personnel by making sure everything is done the "right" way. (so, focused on the details) Your ESTJ boss is responsible for making sure you are doing things "right". Interacting with you tends to be more of a critique of what you are doing, hence the negative perception.

ENTJs are more focused on "why". Achieving the overall goal is important - making sure the system is running properly rather than focusing on the details. How something is done doesn't matter so much, what's important is that it is accomplished in a timely matter. (so, focused on the big picture) Your ENTJ boss is responsible for making sure the overall project runs smoothly. Inteacting with you tends to be more about making sure you have what you need to get the job done, hence the somewhat more "friendly" perception.

From the Myers/Briggs site:

ESTJ
Practical, realistic, matter-of-fact. Decisive, quickly move to implement decisions. Organize projects and people to get things done, focus on getting results in the most efficient way possible. Take care of routine details. Have a clear set of logical standards, systematically follow them and want others to also. Forceful in implementing their plans
ENTJ
Frank, decisive, assume leadership readily. Quickly see illogical and inefficient procedures and policies, develop and implement comprehensive systems to solve organizational problems. Enjoy long-term planning and goal setting. Usually well informed, well read, enjoy expanding their knowledge and passing it on to others. Forceful in presenting their ideas.
The Myers & Briggs Foundation - The 16 MBTI® Types
 
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