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Hello everyone (if anyone reads this lol) I'm usually very forgiving of people. We are all human and make mistakes right? Now I'm curious. How forgiving are INFJs are after a deep held value has been violated? Does that person lose your trust and/or respect? If so, for how long or is it a permanent loss of respect/trust?
 

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Oh boy, it really depends on a lot of different factors - how the person is related to me (family, friend, acquaintance, stranger?), which value it is, how much it hurt me, how apologetic the person is etc. It may very well be a permanent loss of respect/trust but the desire/temptation for me to trust the person is usually always present as I desire strong bonds with people and when they are broken, it breaks me too. I can think of two instances where trust was never restored and one instance where it was. However, I always have forgiven people even if respect/trust was never restored. And depending on how deep the wound is, it takes different amounts of time for me to do that.
 

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I guess when the trust wasn't restored it was an important value. For me, last year, the love of my life (my wife) broke one of my most important values (trust) and I lost all respect for her. At one point I could honestly say I didn't care about her wellbeing anymore. I've managed to forgive her but my gut tells me things will never the same between us again. Is that the case for the people you have forgiven but the trust/respect is not restored?
 

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I guess growing up I was forced to develop thick skin, so most stuff that people do that would cross my lines I honestly don't care about. I have learned that if I don't care what they think about me, then it basically neuters their attempt to assault me. When a guy insults you, and you simply reply "I am OK with you thinking that", it tends to deflate their balloon and often make them mad, effectively flipping the script on them (which admit I kinda do enjoy).

However for those precious few I do care about, I tend to be the welcome mat, and take a lot more than I should. It is probably the result of self-value issues, the fact that these people are indeed precious and rare, and no doubt other things. I let them go to far, despite my better judgment.

not really sure what I would do if i decided to stand up for myself to someone who mattered to me. I wouldn't know how to door slam someone.
 

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Here's a relevant thread: http://personalitycafe.com/infj-for...ou-ever-find-okay-hurt-someones-feelings.html

My level of forgiveness depends on my assessment of the person and what kind of person they are. I can tell if someone is an overall nice person or an overall jackass, for example. I will be more stern with nicer people and more aggressive towards jackasses. I also assess how much potential they have to improve themselves. If I feel like it's a lost cause, I'll give it to them straight and leave them.

This is speaking in general, however. If we are discussing personal boundaries, people who cross the line will get slammed, and that's because I'll tell them not to in the first place. If I tell you not to cross it, don't be an idiot and do it. Simple.

I don't believe in being entirely unforgiving. It's unnecessary for me to hold grudges against people, that takes too much energy. I'll forgive the person if they earn it, and give trust back, but only after another round of testing. My respect for them will take an equal plunge - i.e. right down into the sinker. It will take an equal amount of effort on their part to earn my respect back.

It's hard for me to renew respect and trust in people who've lost it. But I know that a lot of people are good-intentioned, and as long as they try to keep being a good person - and not screwing up all the time or giving bullshit disingenuousness - then they have my respect, and they have potential to earn my trust. It's never permanent. It's run on a very basic scale: I have the minimum required and if you wish to go deeper you must earn more. Anybody can take a turn at the high striker, but not everybody's strong enough to hit the bell and get a prize. ;)

I'm not perfect, and I shouldn't expect that of other people; but I have very baseline expectations that should be fulfilled, and if you can't even meet the baseline standard, I'm just not going to waste my time with you.
 

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Hello everyone (if anyone reads this lol) I'm usually very forgiving of people. We are all human and make mistakes right? Now I'm curious. How forgiving are INFJs are after a deep held value has been violated? Does that person lose your trust and/or respect? If so, for how long or is it a permanent loss of respect/trust?
My reaction:
 

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Hello everyone (if anyone reads this lol) I'm usually very forgiving of people. We are all human and make mistakes right? Now I'm curious. How forgiving are INFJs are after a deep held value has been violated? Does that person lose your trust and/or respect? If so, for how long or is it a permanent loss of respect/trust?
First off, I love your avatar... Cloud Strife is one of my favorite heroes.




Secondly, to answer your question: You get cut off indefinitely.
 

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Hello everyone (if anyone reads this lol) I'm usually very forgiving of people. We are all human and make mistakes right? Now I'm curious. How forgiving are INFJs are after a deep held value has been violated? Does that person lose your trust and/or respect? If so, for how long or is it a permanent loss of respect/trust?

I'm very forgiving; I'm always willing to give people a second or third chance, though after that, I usually am cautious about them and don't ever trust them unless I've seen them show genuine remorse for what they've done and are ready to change. So I suppose I'm always ready to forgive, though after the third or fourth breach of trust, I'm less likely to give it out until they've proven to me that they've changed through their actions. This is assuming the breaches were rather large, and I hold that belief for all, whether it be a stranger or close friend. I definitely believe in forgiveness. As far as respect goes, each time you violate the trust or belief, I do lose respect for you, though it can be gained over time once more.
 

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I am having a hard time suppressing my instinct to doorslam my ESTJ friend-at-work. Up until recently we got along great. I always knew she was super naive, and we would laugh about how snobby she is, but lately her lack of empathy has really started to bother me. Basically, she crossed the line by being completely insensitive about someone I care about. I couldn't sit there and let her make ignorant comments about the other person but I bit my tongue. She crossed the line and now I pretty much want to call her an ignorant self-centred bitch to her face.
 

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What happens after some crosses the line?

Bye-bye. No explanations, no big scenes, just a deliberate cold shoulder forever. Wish I wasn't like this, but it is effective.
 

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I have this strange complex in which I door-slam some and yet let others trample on me indefinitely.
I suppose it has something to do with the context, but I'm not completely sure...

My husband, for example, is one that I never could shut out, even after a very rough few years of dating (and many, many hurtful breakups). I loved him so much and was so magnetized to him that I never could or would allow myself to shut him out. I just kept forgiving him.

Then there is a half-sibling who repeatedly has tried to claw her way into my life now, when I am an adult, although she cared very little about me when I was a child. I doorslammed her around the age of 18 and have absolutely no emotional attachment to her, despite her being somewhat blood-related. She crossed the line many times, though, before I finally stopped pretending to care about her and just started ignoring her completely.

There are also times where someone crosses the line and I want to completely shut them out, but circumstances require that I do not. It's in these cases that I feel especially vulnerable, and essentially "go through the motions" of having a relationship with them without allowing them to be close to me, in order to protect myself. It's especially hard to forgive these people in situations like these (it may prove impossible; I suppose I'll find out).

Overall, I would sum up my reaction to boundary-crossing into stages like this:
1. I make excuses for the other party but am hurt deeply, and try extremely hard to win affection.
If the person changes behavior at this point (and does not apologize), I forgive and move on immediately.
If they apologize, I'm likely to deflect it and deny it hurt me in the first place.

2. I internalize the hurt even deeper, and try harder to please.
If the person changes the behavior at this point (and does not apologize), I am hesitant to trust, but will forgive after I believe the behavior is authentic.
If they apologize, I'm likely to accept the apology but downplay its necessity, and forgive and move on immediately.

3. My hurt begins to turn to anger, and I become guarded.
If the person changes the behavior at this point (and does not apologize), I am very slow to trust and forgive, but it is definitely possible.
If they apologize, I am likely to forgive, acknowledge that I was hurt, and move on.

4. I become defensive and withdraw emotionally.
If the person changes the behavior at this point (and does not apologize), I will struggle with forgiveness but after a while of seeing the changed behavior, move on and trust again.
If they apologize, I am likely to forgive, acknowledge that I was hurt, and give them another chance to try, albeit hesitantly.

5. I withdraw verbally and/or physically, and become indirect and avoidant to conflict
If the person only changes the behavior at this point (and does not apologize), I will likely not pursue a relationship with them further.
If they apologize, I am likely to forgive, but to wait for a change in behavior before trying again in the relationship. If the change comes, I am likely to move on and begin building trust towards them again.

6. I decide the relationship is not worth keeping and "doorslam" - attempts to keep harmony in the relationship are abandoned at this point, and I may be more willing to pursue, or at least accept, open conflict.
If the person only changes the behavior at this point (and does not apologize), I will not accept any type of relationship with them.
If they apologize, I am likely to forgive, but not to give them another chance at a relationship. It is highly unlikely that, once I've reached this stage, I will want any type of relationship with them again- although, sometimes, time can heal and years later I am able to have an acquaintance relationship again.
 
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Hello everyone (if anyone reads this lol) I'm usually very forgiving of people. We are all human and make mistakes right? Now I'm curious. How forgiving are INFJs are after a deep held value has been violated? Does that person lose your trust and/or respect? If so, for how long or is it a permanent loss of respect/trust?
Hi. Yes, we're human. If someone violates a deeply held value it depends on whether they're aware of it's value to me or not. If they disregard the value of my friendship for instance I can and will stand up for myself and do what has to be done. If they choose to let it die and my values keep me in the light then I will work for the friendship even if they would let it die (I.E. they break my trust, I call them out, they say they don't care, I stand up, they don't respond or try to keep the friendship, I make an effort after a little while if I feel it's necessary..).

Of course they lose my trust. I'm not a doormat and I refuse to be treated like one (I feel sad when I know I am in a position to rightfully challenge other individuals' self worth through their actions on me). The only people who get away with treating me badly are the ones who choose to be disillusioned in closed scenarios of ethics that is created under the social context we call social groups. Everyone has a level of respect from me. If they disrespect me I will treat them with a facet that guards me against any further disrespect, a facet of much less trust. Family or not. If they don't take responsibility for their actions they will not be permitted to see what they have done. The cause of my view on this may just go to the grave with the ignorance of the person who started this trend.

As for how long..It depends on how dire. If it's something like say..How someone treats me when they have power over me in a vulnerable state, it depends on who it is. They should consider themselves lucky if they do this as family. I'm not sure how I would act if someone fringed in a deep way. The last time I picked on their weakness in a fit of anxiety. They ran away to lick their wounds thinking they were some damaged person when a lose lose situation came out of it, sparked by a reactionary response by me to a reactionary response from them to a misunderstood response from me. As in they misunderstood my response and reacted negatively, causing me to react negatively in response.

It seems like these misunderstood interactions cause permanent damage in my life so I will go with permanent damage to my relationships if my values are hurt from the bonds I form. Like the creases in paper and aluminum, the carvings on a tree, the damage to our psych as children..

I went all over the place with my response. Your answer is in there though along with the relevant information.
 

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If I think there's an ounce of hope, I'll figuratively bitchslap them to show them I mean it. This is usually with a once-friend who's gone too far. It's a habit I'm trying to stop, because it usually does no good once things have gotten to that point and makes healing from the guilt take that much longer.

After that I'll just avoid them like the plague. Sometimes after months or years once the hurt has passed, I'll brush shoulders with them again, and treat them with all the niceties I'd make to a stranger. They're back to level zero with me. They have to earn it to get in any further.

And really, maybe a little below level zero, as I tend to give strangers the benefit of the doubt, but I stop giving that to someone who's crossed the line in a huge way.
 

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I usually give another chance and even explain why they crossed the line but if i see that they're not interested in making the relationship work ( no matter the kind of relationship ) i simply remove them slowly from my life, never to interact with that person again.
 

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What happens after someone crosses the line?

A lot of silence, "la nada" ,that person doesn´t exist for me anymore. It is hard for someone to actually cross the line with me, because I consider myself a very patient person and I am all about forgiveness and second chances, so once, they cross the line, that´s it,end of the story no matter how much that hurts.
 

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A line cannot be uncrossed; I like to think it takes special circumstances and a clear dismissal of the few previous allowances I've made, for the person to reach it. Regardless of whether or not I end up forgiving, I do end up moving forward. I am not likely to keep a tally of offenses; this is more for my personal freedom, which has in recent years, taken a top priority along with my other goals. This doesn't mean I essentially forget; it's just that taking everything in stride is automatic: an act of self-love to remind me that I inevitably give permission over what may affect me and what may not.
 
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What if the person doesn't know what line was crossed or why you are shutting them out?

One day an INFJ friend was constantly stopping in my office, chatting online, and texting - he is very comical and does not seem to take much seriously most times. The next day it all comes to a dead stop with no explanation. You inquire as to what is wrong, if you did anything, etc, but no response. The INFJ went from practically my best friend to a cold shoulder in a milisecond. How is one supposed to recover from that without at least some brief discussion?
 

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People will rarely cross my line. I don't think they feel a need to. If they do I'll just tell them seriously to stop whatever they're doing, and usually they stop. I've never really been in some sort of big deal.
 

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What if the person doesn't know what line was crossed or why you are shutting them out?

One day an INFJ friend was constantly stopping in my office, chatting online, and texting - he is very comical and does not seem to take much seriously most times. The next day it all comes to a dead stop with no explanation. You inquire as to what is wrong, if you did anything, etc, but no response. The INFJ went from practically my best friend to a cold shoulder in a milisecond. How is one supposed to recover from that without at least some brief discussion?
Obviously, I don't know your friend or the details of your situation, so I can't give you too specific of advice...
But, I can tell you this-
First of all, I've been that friend, who "randomly" shuts people out without telling them why. I'm not proud of it. :/
Second, I always have a reason. It's never actually random. Sometimes it's that I'm worried I made a fool of myself and I withdraw in hopes that they'll pursue the relationship, proving they actually do care about me. Sometimes it's that they said something that offended or hurt me and I withdraw in order to avoid it again. It's situational. But it always is for a reason.
Third, I rarely, only in the most extreme circumstances (if you read my earlier post, stage 6, specifically), directly tell someone why I'm upset. If they ask, I might tell them, depending on how severe it is. If they know why and apologize, I'll accept the apology. But I don't go out of my way to discuss it unless it's gotten so extreme that I no longer care to keep a harmonious relationship of any kind with them. So if you're waiting for him to come to you and tell you what's up...it's possible he might not.
Fourth, sometimes I get over it. If it was no big deal, or if I withdrew because of something I did, not the other person, I'll usually come back in a matter of time and pretend nothing happened.

The other thing I was wondering about your INFJ friend is, are you 100% sure he's an INFJ? The doorslam makes sense, but the comical light-heartedness seems a little "off" to me. Although, to be fair, I've given the impression to people in certain situations that I didn't take life seriously and was all about fun... Anyway, do you know for sure? Or was that just an impression you got of him?
 
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