[aconite]

For example, 7's stress point is 1. Is there any difference between an unhealthy 7w6 and 7w8? I mean, both can acquire 1's worst traits, but do wings affect it? Does 7w6 become like 1 with a bit of 3, and 7w8 like 1 with a bit of 5? What about tritypes?

And an interesting thing I've noticed about my tritype (784).

Stress: 7->1, 8->5, 4->2, thus 152.
Growth: 7->5, 8->2, 4->1, thus 521.

...which is the same archetype (the order is different, I know, but I think it's cool anyway).

 

[madhatter]

It all boils down to what "camp" you're part of. I don't personally think that wings can integrate/disintegrate, nor do I think tritypes can either. I think that the core type is the most part of the personality, and the wings, tritypes, and instinctual subtypes are all secondary, and are only there to add nuance and different dimensions to the core type and its primary motivations. But some people may disagree with me.

 

[sleepyhead]

It all boils down to what "camp" you're part of. I don't personally think that wings can integrate/disintegrate, nor do I think tritypes can either. I think that the core type is the most part of the personality, and the wings, tritypes, and instinctual subtypes are all secondary, and are only there to add nuance and different dimensions to the core type and its primary motivations. But some people may disagree with me.

You put it beautifully. I totally agree. When you integrate in your core you become more balanced as a whole.

 

[Swordsman of Mana]

It all boils down to what "camp" you're part of. I don't personally think that wings can integrate/disintegrate, nor do I think tritypes can either. I think that the core type is the most part of the personality, and the wings, tritypes, and instinctual subtypes are all secondary, and are only there to add nuance and different dimensions to the core type and its primary motivations. But some people may disagree with me.

I actually think the instinctual variants play a larger role in personality than core type. other than that, I pretty much agree, with the exception that I think the wing might also integrate/disintegrate like the main type (I've noticed I have a lot of 5-ish tendencies when unhealthy and a lot of 2-ish tendencies when healthy)

 

[Airy]

I think tritypes can definitely integrate/ disintegrate but am not as sure about wings (perhaps it would require more growth/ stress than the core requires to change). Like the MBTI, the enneagram has a focus that a healthy individual will ultimately be affected by more than just their type (integration). Mbti explains preferences for functions but a healthy person will still have other non-preferential functions fairly developed. Considering the enneagram has different levels of health for all types, what's to stop the wings and tritype from integrating or disintegrating as well? So if you were a very healthy 3w2 4w5 8w9 you'd have integration in 3 to 6. But, I think depending on how strong your 4 and 8 are relative to your core, you may experience integration in them too. I relate it to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. As the lower level needs are met (your core type), you can move on to fulfil other needs (the other 2 types in your tritype) that are higher up in the hierarchy. I am unsure whether wings would experience integration at the same time as the type it is attached to or if it's the next step up in the hierarchy.

So in this picture, your core type would be at the bottom. Either the wing is in the same bracket as your core or the next step up. Then once you have integrated into your core type (and maybe the wing), you can move onto integrating the rest of the tritype.

Alternatively, maybe integration can occur to any type/ wing. Perhaps integration just depends on which type/wing is being channelled and developed at that time. Anywho this was a really interesting question! Time to read up more on the enneagram yeah!

 

[AbioticPrime]

It all boils down to what "camp" you're part of. I don't personally think that wings can integrate/disintegrate, nor do I think tritypes can either. I think that the core type is the most part of the personality, and the wings, tritypes, and instinctual subtypes are all secondary, and are only there to add nuance and different dimensions to the core type and its primary motivations. But some people may disagree with me.

This may vary depending on how 'balanced' a person is. They stress in e theory how people may heavily rely on their core type but that this is undesirable and as people come closer to self-actualization they begin relying more equally among all the types (which initially means a balancing between the tritypes). I think it varies from person to person and some may integrate/disintegrate from each of their tritype points.

Edit: didn't see @aconite 's post. Doh!

 

[GaudiyaVaisnavi]

Thank you, Aconite, for starting this thread! You may be right about wings integrating/disintegrating; I hadn't considered that, but it could very well be possible. However, that the three types in one's tritype can all integrate & disintegrate, I am fairly sure of. That's actually how I figured out what my tritype was -- and an exhilarating day that was, I can tell you!

I'll outline my Enneagram self-typing history here briefly to illustrate what I mean -- hopefully it won't bore anyone:

1st marriage counselor, who knew me well, told me I was Type 9. 2nd counselor suspected Type 4, had me take test to type myself that just involved selecting one of nine paragraphs that was supposed to do the best job of describing me and my motivation. Paragraph I selected turned out to be that of Type 7. However, when I read about it, most of the stuff about Type 7 didn't describe me well, and the description of Type 9 fit me to a T, especially 9w1 so/sx. I've always been somewhat withdrawn and although problems with "Gluttony" did apply to me for sure, problems with "Sloth" were without a doubt far more serious. Still, I was confused because I related so much better with Type 7's attitudes & motivation than with Type 9's, and everyone says that motivation is the most important part! Confusion as to whether I was 9 or 7 persisted for some time; I finally decided on 9 for sure, but with plenty of 7 issues. Meanwhile, I did several online tests that kept on classifying me as either a 4 or 5, and though I didn't relate to descriptions of 4s, I REALLY related to descriptions of 5s -- if only it were possible to be a highly optimistic, positive and emotionally in touch Type 5. Of course, that means 9 -- since 9 and 5 often get confused with each other! But really, I kept an eye on myself for a few months after learning all this stuff, and I kept on noticing the classic Type 5 things -- withdrawal for intellectual pursuits that interested me, thorough mental analysis, and what Riso & Hudson call "Avarice" -- ie strong anxiety to preserve time, energy & resources because they seem so limited. And strong desire to be independent and not request anything from anyone.

Then I get on here and learn about the Tritype concept for the first time. WHOA was that an exciting idea! I read through all 27 Archetype descriptions on madhatter's thread and started trying to decide which might be mine -- initially thinking it might have a 7 in it because of all the confusion I had in the beginning about whether my core type was 9 or 7. I was unable to be clear about my tritype right away, though.

I found a link to the Fauvres' Enneacards Sampler Test and took it. WOW, was it ever helpful!!!! I was stunned by a sudden realization of what Type 4 actually represented and what a huge amount of it was present in me and always had been without my realizing that that was Type 4. By far, the four types I chose the cards for most often were 9, 7, 5 and 4. Still feeling like I related better with 7 than 5, I started thinking that my tritype might be 974, although when I'd read the description in madhatter's thread it hadn't really resonated with me.

Trying to decide for sure whether 7 or 5 was more prominent and central in my nature, I had to admit that 5 was a much better description of the way I had been for the majority of my life. The times when 7ishness was prominent had appeared later, and now I had again reverted to being much more like a 5. I tried to pinpoint the time when 7ishness really started to manifest, and I realized that it was after I got married. My husband is a 1w2, and either a 1-6-2 or 1-6-3 tritype. My preferences for withdrawing and studying my own and other people's minds and emotions were difficult for him to relate with as a more extroverted and socially involved person, and my experience of low energy and having a hard time getting things done around the house were difficult for him to respect as a more hardworking and competent person -- and as a core 1, he was very particular about how he wanted our household to be run and when I wasn't up to it his dissatisfaction was hard for me to endure. My 5 fix approached our marital problems from the angle of wanting to analyze and find a solution to them, but when I failed to find a solution that I was capable of effecting, my 9 strategy of "Oh well, I'll just go on doing the best I can, enduring the pain and hoping/expecting that things will gradually get better" took over, and with that being my primary modus operandi, my 5 fix no longer had anything productive it could do to deal with the situation and so what did it do? It morphed into Type 7 -- "Well let's just have fun then to take the mind off of its troubles!" I became more (delusionally) optimistic, distracted, right-brained big-picture-perceiving (failing to notice details), sloppy and careless, cheerful and SOCIAL... I lost the logical, objective thinking abilities I had always had a decent amount of in the past, became more scattered, spacey, and emotional/subjective... and though these changes gave me a little regret because I liked the way I had been before, my 9-ish reaction was to tolerate and accept it: "Oh well, like it or not, I guess these changes must be just a natural part of growing up, for me at least!"

When I took the "choose the paragraph that best describes your attitude/motivation" test and chose the Type 7 paragraph, I was in the midst of the very worst time I had ever experienced in my marriage. Shortly after that, my husband and I separated and I moved back in with my loving, supportive parents. I was able to relax, be myself, and do what I wanted and needed to do -- and I became EXTREMELY 5ish again.

Obviously some of you who don't think our second and third types morph like this in times of great stress or great health will be thinking that maybe I'm a core 5. Well, anything is possible, so you could be right. Again, the main reason I thought otherwise is because I've always been decidedly optimistic. I definitely have a huge amount of 9 -- caring about people and relationships, wanting everyone to be happy, being expert at understanding others and a great peacemaker. When I read about Type 9 and read about Type 5 I definitely relate more with 9 as a whole; if I had to choose and could only be one or the other, I'd choose 9 without the least hesitation.

I think my 4 fix has shown unhealthy-2 traits, as well. Thinking that I exist only to serve others, that I'm a completely selfless person, when of course the truth is that I've got tons of selfish interests and needs.

Anyway, extremely interesting discussion and thanks again for raising it!