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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)

I'm curious. If an ESTJ were to lie, how would the scenario play out?



> Under what circumstances would provide an ESTJ reason to lie?

> Would ESTJs make good liars?

> What qualities do ESTJs think would make a good liar?

> Will ESTJs weave a complex story?

> How do ESTJs react to long-winded excuses?

> Will ESTJ maintain lies for long periods of time?

> How will ESTJs react to people who keep secrets for long periods of time?

> How do ESTJs deal with grudges?

> Do ESTJs feel guilt when lying?
(Assume it's to save their own ass - e.g. excusing self for being late to class/school.)

> How do ESTJs react to lies?
(Conversely, how would ESTJs react to blatant liars?)


I'm actually really, REALLY curious.

This is NOT an attack on ESTJs. This is simply for my own personal interest.
 

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My ESTJ father Te's you into submission. it's quite a frightful thing to behold. He's got a very quiet, controlled anger reserved especially for liars.

I find it a little bit condescending and guilt-inducing... but that's probably because I'm his child. It might not apply to all ESTJs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
@knittigan , I've similar stories up my sleeve, but I'd rather not jump to conclusions and stereotype ESTJs right off the bat.

I'm wondering about how most ESTJs would feel in regards to lying or sustaining a lie.
 

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I can't answer any of these authoritatively of course, but I'll give it a shot based on what I know of him:

> Under what circumstances would provide an ESTJ reason to lie?
I can see my father being dishonest in a kind of "the ends justify the means" sort of way.

> Would ESTJs make good liars?
He's a great liar. So am I, for what it's worth.

> What qualities do ESTJs think would make a good liar?
No idea.

> Will ESTJs weave a complex story?
No idea.

> How do ESTJs react to long-winded excuses?
He has a pretty strong bullshit detector. Maybe too strong at times since he is often reluctant to see things from someone else's perspective. It's quite difficult for him to understand that there is often more than one right way of doing things.

> Will ESTJ maintain lies for long periods of time?
If necessary, although I wouldn't say that he's necessarily prone to this kind of behaviour.

> How will ESTJs react to people who keep secrets for long periods of time?
I think that it depends on the kind of secret.

> How do ESTJs deal with grudges?
I'm not sure about when he was younger, but I know that my father now encourages me against this kind of behaviour. He says that it's counterproductive.

> Do ESTJs feel guilt when lying?
(Assume it's to save their own ass - e.g. excusing self for being late to class/school.)
I think so. Maybe less than some types, more than others.

> How do ESTJs react to lies?
(Conversely, how would ESTJs react to blatant liars?)
He has an uncanny ability to ferret out the truth through brute force.
 
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> Under what circumstances would provide an ESTJ reason to lie?

Definitely "the ends justify the means" scenario. Along the lines of if i had to choose to murder a baby to save 100 people, i would choose the latter. Doesnt make it right though....

> Would ESTJs make good liars?

In general I would have to say no simply because ESTJ arent known to be liars. But speaking personally, yes I can talk circles around people to get what I want. Still I dont think ESTJ makes for the best liars.

> What qualities do ESTJs think would make a good liar?

Anyone that ignores their conscience... or lacks it entirely.

> Will ESTJs weave a complex story?

Definitely

> How do ESTJs react to long-winded excuses?

With blunt "Im calling you out on your BS" talk.

> Will ESTJ maintain lies for long periods of time?

Healthy ESTJ will fess up eventually as his conscience will rack him with guilt. Unheathly ESTJ will take it to the grave.

> How will ESTJs react to people who keep secrets for long periods of time?

I perfer to give people the opportunity to tell me in their own time, but it depends on the secret and circumstances.

> How do ESTJs deal with grudges?

Healthy ESTJ will always remember, but won't let it bother him. Unhealthy ESTJ will always remember and remain bitter to the individual untill things are rectified.

> Do ESTJs feel guilt when lying?
(Assume it's to save their own ass - e.g. excusing self for being late to class/school.)

Absolutely

> How do ESTJs react to lies?
(Conversely, how would ESTJs react to blatant liars?)

By countering with cold hard Truths with no reservations or holding back anything, making the lier look like a complete idiot.
 
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I'm curious. If an ESTJ were to lie, how would the scenario play out?
The end is what matters.

Under what circumstances would provide an ESTJ reason to lie?
Lies that need not to maintain.

Would ESTJs make good liars?
No.

What qualities do ESTJs think would make a good liar?
There is no good liar.

Will ESTJs weave a complex story?
No.

How do ESTJs react to long-winded excuses?
Confront it.

Will ESTJ maintain lies for long periods of time?
No.

How will ESTJs react to people who keep secrets for long periods of time?
Avoid them.

How do ESTJs deal with grudges?
I keep it in check until I get the chance to payback.

Do ESTJs feel guilt when lying?
(Assume it's to save their own ass - e.g. excusing self for being late to class/school.)
No.

How do ESTJs react to lies?
(Conversely, how would ESTJs react to blatant liars?)
Confront it, sooner or later.
 
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Suddenly a wild ESTJ appears.
 
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Eh the ESTJ lies and someone will be decieved or not by it.
The world doesn't end or anything. :p

Valid reasons for ESTJs to lie would be Fi value protection.
Saying they stopped drinking/smoking whatever to get pesky meddling Fe people of their back for example.
If you lie to them they will be quite upset in my experience.
Something along the lines of "Are you lying to my face?" :angry:
 

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I'm going to throw this out there simply because it's something I ran into today: if you doubt something I say, TELL ME. Not later, after you've checked out my claims in the privacy and comfort of your home. Now. While I'm talking. Give me a chance to validate my claims rather than assume it's a lie until you decide at your own luxury to think otherwise.

Pretending you believe me while thinking everything I'm saying is a lie....and yet saying nothing to me about your doubt--- that is a breach of trust. That tells me that you are inherently a liar, and that what you show me is simply that-- a show.

I don't know about other ESTJs, but this doesn't fly with me. It tells me I cannot trust the feedback I receive-- and inherently cannot trust that the person I'm talking to is being honest and upfront with me.

Unfortunately, this happened today with someone I was trying to reconnect with. I'm at somewhat of a stalemate because I had wanted to rekindle the relationship. Now I just want it to disappear. The trust is gone.

Ugh.
@Lazy Bear would this bother you? Or would it roll off your back?
 
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I would be severely perturbed by behaviour of that sort, I would likely cease trying to form any bond with them. If people do not have the ability to confront me or to call me out, and therefore not the time to care about whether or not I am truthful, then I do not have any time or energy to expend on their behalf.
 
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I would be severely perturbed by behaviour of that sort, I would likely cease trying to form any bond with them. If people do not have the ability to confront me or to call me out, and therefore not the time to care about whether or not I am truthful, then I do not have any time or energy to expend on their behalf.
Thank you for the straightforward answer.
 

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It is what I do.
 
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I'll try to give this a stab even though I am unfamiliar with being in these shoes!

> Under what circumstances would provide an ESTJ reason to lie?
I see no reason to lie, no matter the circumstance.

> Would ESTJs make good liars?
Without practice, no perfection can be achieved

> What qualities do ESTJs think would make a good liar?
I think being so analytical would be our best ally.

> Will ESTJs weave a complex story?
I think this would be dissected on a person by person basis

> How do ESTJs react to long-winded excuses?
There is no patience for this sort of thing, the truth is simple, and nothing else need be said.

> Will ESTJ maintain lies for long periods of time?
I think our dedication would allow for us to maintain one indefinitely

> How will ESTJs react to people who keep secrets for long periods of time?
There is no patience for this sort of thing either

> How do ESTJs deal with grudges?
For me its either yes or no, 1 or 0, should you be in my life or should you not. There is no grudge held, just facts.

> Do ESTJs feel guilt when lying?
I think this is also more to be taken on a person by person basis.

> How do ESTJs react to lies?
I have a two strike rule, lie once and I'll forgive, lie twice and you're out, no emotion about it.
 

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Ok let me give it a try:


> Under what circumstances would provide an ESTJ reason to lie?
My usual way to go is to not tell lies. Telling the truth makes things easier and in the end always gives you the upper hand in complex issues. I fight without harness.
Nevertheless, there are of course situations where lies become necessary. When telling the truth would actually ruin a lot.

> Would ESTJs make good liars?
I am a bit surprised that people here think ESTJ's are not good liars. Being known as managing, controlling and manipulative, we have the natural abilities to be well-equipped liars, I would say. -If- we are forced to tell the lie, it is well-constructed and credibly put into the mind of the listener.

> What qualities do ESTJs think would make a good liar?
-Being able to embed the lie in true uninteresting day to day data. Make all data fit even at the microlevel, like only Sensors can do.
-Knowing the person in front of you.
-Don't tell too much lies, or you get lost in following them.

> Will ESTJs weave a complex story?
Definitely not. as explained in the former point. Best story is an uninteresting story.

> How do ESTJs react to long-winded excuses?
No patience. Just cut the crap and tell the truth.

> Will ESTJ maintain lies for long periods of time?
Not if they weren't necessary. And many lies aren't actually. I often come back to people to correct things.
But the ones that are necessary we take to the grave. Combination of dedication and strenght of the lie.

> How will ESTJs react to people who keep secrets for long periods of time?
Depends on if it affects me. And on if I know they are repeatedly lying in my face.

> How do ESTJs deal with grudges?
ESTJs are known to hold grudges. I held many. Decided it was not productive and reduced it drastically.

> Do ESTJs feel guilt when lying?
Yes, personally. But i think it varies a lot between ESTJs.

> How do ESTJs react to lies?
This brings me to the reason I reacted to this post: as I grow older and get a better S/N balance, my bullshit-radar is getting better and better. The last year I encountered many people, friends, that felt the need to tell obvious lies to me. Particularly from NP types that fell in love with their version of the truth. These people sometimes even told me a different story only one week before!? I learned to react tactfully, only giving once the most important reason why it could not be true, after which I let it rest. After all, they are my friends, and reasoning similar as for myself: somehow they must be deeply forced to tell the lie. Nevertheless, I am worried about the pattern here.

Therefore my question is: are ESTJs more being lied to? Is there something about our controlling or honest/open nature that makes people feel forced to tell lies? Do other ESTJs encounter the same?
 

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Under what circumstances would provide an ESTJ reason to lie?
No reason to lie at all. It just makes you look bad when the lie is discovered.

> Would ESTJs make good liars?
I don't think so.

> What qualities do ESTJs think would make a good liar?
The persuasive ability could be a big plus.

> Will ESTJs weave a complex story?
Depends on the person.

> How do ESTJs react to long-winded excuses?
Cut them off in the middle and call them out on their bullshit.

> Will ESTJ maintain lies for long periods of time?
On one hand I think yes, on another I think the moral compass would eventually get them to cave.

> How will ESTJs react to people who keep secrets for long periods of time?
I don't believe it would end well.

> How do ESTJs deal with grudges?
Grudges aren't a problem for me, if I have a problem that big I just move on.

> Do ESTJs feel guilt when lying?
Ideally, yes. But most politicians are ESTJs and they lie all the time.

> How do ESTJs react to lies?
I posted something similar to this answer in another thread. Trust is a big thing for me. I am willing to trust people in the beginning, if they lose that trust, it's real heard to get back. I could probably still associate with that person, but it would be with one eye on them at all times, and with a certain bit of cynicism.
 
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