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Discussion Starter #1
What HappensWhen An INTJ Is Betrayed?:crazy:

Betrayed in a relationship, at work, with a "friend", with anyone, by life?

Do you walk away?

Do you go nuclear?

Do you get even?

What do you do?
 

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Very, very dependent on the situation. In most cases, I think I break contact and walk away or get out of the situation.

With much anger.

But get out.
 

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Unless I was physically, emotionally or materially harmed by the betrayal, I probably wouldn't care much. Someone saying they didn't like the movie I was raving about 5 minutes earlier would be a bit of an insult but not count as a betrayal. While to someone like my wife that would be a casus belli to a declaration of war. :laughing: For something more serious, that would really depend on the situation and context like Eyes Open was saying.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
In my younger days, I have gone absolutely nuclear because someone deserved it, put myself or my family in physical danger, or bullied my children (an adult), or backstabbed me at work (politics).
But, there's something strange about it because there's zero emotion. And, a very conscious decision each step of the way. Instantly planned and orchestrated. Outwardly, it may look spontaneous but it's not. Controlled rage? No. Not at all.
More like a technical fighter or boxer or soldier just disassembles the opponent and the situation with no expression. Watching myself and controlling everything, from somewhere, the real self. Detached. Cold.
Not physical, though capable, but a psychological contest of will and spirit.

To utterly defeat and destroy someone psychologically, to neutralize their will, is far more permanent than physically, or with violence.

Isn't this strange?

But, now, I am much much older and find that the INTJ strengths see betrayal coming long before anyone realizes they are even thinking about it. So, at this point, the only reason for seeing it through and actually going through the betrayal is because I wanted to cut ties blamelessly (it will be their fault and guilt, totally, for all to see) and let things flow a natural path without doing anything at all.
It's a different level of maturity and sophistication.

Does this make sense?

And, in all of the above, I have never lost in the long run.
I have a feeling that INTJ's plan to never lose, at anything.

The best path amongst all these things is absence.
Very strange creatures, these INTJ's.
 

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I got maliciously betrayed bad today. [100%] pissed. There was long angry ranting, curse words and other gibberish. I have cut them off completely. Never talking to them again. Period.

Also,

I am much much older and find that the INTJ strengths see betrayal coming long before anyone realizes they are even thinking about it.
This is true. I did see it coming. I am just angry it came true. It was money/loan related and not so simple to avoid in this case.
 

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When I was much younger (as in, adolescence) 'betrayal' was met with vengeance. :laughing: However, as an adult I tend not to waste my time/energy with it, mostly because becoming 'The Crow' had consequences that I couldn't abide. I'd think of how every action I took would affect not only the person who 'needed atonement,' but everyone (including myself). Additionally, I'd tally up all the unknown variables I would need to take into account in order to be certain of the correct course, of my right to 'mark' or 'control' an outcome, and after all that, found I was unable to justify any course of 'vicious' retaliatory action by those terms.

To be honest, I don't remember the last time I actually felt 'betrayed'... wronged, maybe, but not betrayed. Mostly because, like @Kamuela said, I (generally) can see it coming and step right out of the way (to me that requires much less of an investment than indulging in the drama of it).
 

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Unless I was physically, emotionally or materially harmed by the betrayal, I probably wouldn't care much. Someone saying they didn't like the movie I was raving about 5 minutes earlier would be a bit of an insult but not count as a betrayal. While to someone like my wife that would be a casus belli to a declaration of war. :laughing: For something more serious, that would really depend on the situation and context like Eyes Open was saying.
It is a pertinent question... what counts as betrayal to one person might not for another.
 

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hmm.

For me this really isn't a case-by-case basis. I don't really have a lot of friends (I don't say that in a complaining way). And one of the reasons for that is this very thing. When I see someone has inconsistent character, is prone to lying, isn't reliable or whatever thing that is important in my "must be this long list of things to earn brightflashes inner-circle status", I just keep them at arm's length.

People who know me well know that I won't hesitate to walk away from a relationship that is toxic and I don't tend to look back when I do. Sometimes I freak myself out by how not-caring I am about the end to a relationship. My ex husband, K, who is an ISTP (I type him that way that is), I still feel a bit "guilty" about how little I cared that we got divorced.

The people I love, I love completely and without conditions. These are my my brother and sister, hornpipe2 (my partner) and Turi, as many of you know him ("my loving boyfriend"). These people have proven to me over and over again that they would NEVER betray me and if there was a point in which I felt that they did, I would spare them the benefit of the doubt until I knew for sure and then it would be a very very difficult decision about whether or not I would let go of that relationship over it. But these people are so instrumental in my life that we're talking about asking me to remove a piece of my soul, essentially, to walk away from someone.

Of course I include my children in this, too, but they're too young to understand betrayal and so I have to make allowances for that.

Anyone I didn't list, I could cut off in a heart beat if there was a need to. And if there was, I probably wouldn't give much thought to it. Relating to that person would simply no longer make sense.

I'm not one for revenge. When I was younger I did a few stupid things, but that was real young and I learned from them, too. Now, no way - it's not worth it to waste energy on someone who isn't a positive force in your life.

Hope this answers the question.
 
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Anything is possible.

If I can write something off as "plain stupidity" it isn't a betrayal so I won't do anything. If my silence infuriates them that would be a bonus.

If someone intentionally hurt me, there are lots of ways to go nuclear. Luckily, I've never been in this position.

If I want to get even it's probably because someone was being selfish at my expense, and there are so many ways to hurt someone back.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
hmm.

For me this really isn't a case-by-case basis. I don't really have a lot of friends (I don't say that in a complaining way). And one of the reasons for that is this very thing. When I see someone has inconsistent character, is prone to lying, isn't reliable or whatever thing that is important in my "must be this long list of things to earn brightflashes inner-circle status", I just keep them at arm's length.

People who know me well know that I won't hesitate to walk away from a relationship that is toxic and I don't tend to look back when I do. Sometimes I freak myself out by how not-caring I am about the end to a relationship. My ex husband, K, who is an ISTP (I type him that way that is), I still feel a bit "guilty" about how little I cared that we got divorced.

The people I love, I love completely and without conditions. These are my my brother and sister, hornpipe2 (my partner) and Turi, as many of you know him ("my loving boyfriend"). These people have proven to me over and over again that they would NEVER betray me and if there was a point in which I felt that they did, I would spare them the benefit of the doubt until I knew for sure and then it would be a very very difficult decision about whether or not I would let go of that relationship over it. But these people are so instrumental in my life that we're talking about asking me to remove a piece of my soul, essentially, to walk away from someone.

Of course I include my children in this, too, but they're too young to understand betrayal and so I have to make allowances for that.

Anyone I didn't list, I could cut off in a heart beat if there was a need to. And if there was, I probably wouldn't give much thought to it. Relating to that person would simply no longer make sense.

I'm not one for revenge. When I was younger I did a few stupid things, but that was real young and I learned from them, too. Now, no way - it's not worth it to waste energy on someone who isn't a positive force in your life.

Hope this answers the question.
So true.
Well said.
And. . . . anyone, regardless of family, son, daughter, sister, brother, etc, can betray you. It's human nature for some.
j
 
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Discussion Starter #11
When I was much younger (as in, adolescence) 'betrayal' was met with vengeance. :laughing: However, as an adult I tend not to waste my time/energy with it, mostly because becoming 'The Crow' had consequences that I couldn't abide. I'd think of how every action I took would affect not only the person who 'needed atonement,' but everyone (including myself). Additionally, I'd tally up all the unknown variables I would need to take into account in order to be certain of the correct course, of my right to 'mark' or 'control' an outcome, and after all that, found I was unable to justify any course of 'vicious' retaliatory action by those terms.

To be honest, I don't remember the last time I actually felt 'betrayed'... wronged, maybe, but not betrayed. Mostly because, like @Kamuela said, I (generally) can see it coming and step right out of the way (to me that requires much less of an investment than indulging in the drama of it).
"Indulgence in the drama of it". . . that's well said.

yes. when younger there was that. . . now, as you say. . . . it's simply not worth the time and effort to interact with the clueless.
 

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Betrayed???????

I haven't been betrayed with 7 question marks since high school!!!!!!! Back then I would have made a vicious, cutting remark, never talked to them again, and shut myself in my room to nurse my wounds.

Now, not so much. I haven't felt deeply betrayed by anyone close to me in many years. Maybe now I can read people enough to not make myself really vulnerable to someone who is unreliable. Or maybe I'm just lucky.

If it is something major I would cut them out of my life. That's the obvious thing to do. But for everyday things like standing me up for dinner, or ditching a project we are supposed to be doing together? We all screw up, including me. I just will be more careful next time.
 

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Never sought revenge.

Walk away (avoidance) or being a passive aggressive bitch by pretending to door slam someone for a bit, and then really doing it.
 

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Considering how I currently let very few people into my personal life, I can't say this has been a significant issue in my late 20s. However, during my school and college years? Yes. For such cases, I just go quiet/distant to the point that it makes the other person very uncomfortable. I also [might possibly] cut the person off if the internal emotions become too much. For the cutting off part, I tend to be more lenient with family members who I am very close with though. No problem with doing a 'door slam' on others though.
 

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I see this topic come up from time to time on INxJ forums and I am often curious about it. I see the door slam/ walk away response a lot, and being a P type of course that is not my normal response to frayed relationships; the door to reconciliation is always open unless someone was, say, violent and that hasn't been something I have personally faced.

But what I am curious about isn't the response to betrayal, it is this idea of betrayal itself. Like, how often are you betrayed and how does an action get the label "betrayal?" I am well into middle age and I am searching my memory for someone who I thought betrayed me and I can't for the life of me think of anyone. It sounds just so dramatic. I've been hurt, let down, disappointed, stunned, and all sorts of other not-desired feelings from all sorts of relationships, of course. But I'm not sure I've been "betrayed."

It seems like something that happens to emperors and knights and those whose agent steals their original work and turns around and profits from it.... it doesn't seem like a feeling I would get from a personal relationship.
 

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I see this topic come up from time to time on INxJ forums and I am often curious about it. I see the door slam/ walk away response a lot, and being a P type of course that is not my normal response to frayed relationships; the door to reconciliation is always open unless someone was, say, violent and that hasn't been something I have personally faced.

But what I am curious about isn't the response to betrayal, it is this idea of betrayal itself. Like, how often are you betrayed and how does an action get the label "betrayal?" I am well into middle age and I am searching my memory for someone who I thought betrayed me and I can't for the life of me think of anyone. It sounds just so dramatic. I've been hurt, let down, disappointed, stunned, and all sorts of other not-desired feelings from all sorts of relationships, of course. But I'm not sure I've been "betrayed."

It seems like something that happens to emperors and knights and those whose agent steals their original work and turns around and profits from it.... it doesn't seem like a feeling I would get from a personal relationship.

Yeah, I haven’t had it happen. I have faded out on people that seem untrustworthy but haven’t done anything specific to me (which is probably why this hasn’t happened). So I extrapolate that if something I would consider “betrayal” would happen, it’d just be a “see ya” deal - especially if I let them be close/trusted enough to actually end up feeling “betrayed”.
 

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Yeah, I haven’t had it happen. I have faded out on people that seem untrustworthy but haven’t done anything specific to me (which is probably why this hasn’t happened). So I extrapolate that if something I would consider “betrayal” would happen, it’d just be a “see ya” deal - especially if I let them be close/trusted enough to actually end up feeling “betrayed”.
I guess it's all about life time for most INTJ. The current me will give few chance of courteous interactions for the benefit of my doubt then afterwards I will simply JUDGE (by extrapolation as EyesOpen said) and doorslam the trashes I met and recognized. Because I've learned from my experiences that there are people who are simply do not worth my effort, AT ALL.

In my current work I have one or two people from the finance department (one of them is the CFO, roflol) which I do not ever want to interact ever again, at least when not being forced by professional working situation, only after my first week in the office. My judgement holds true, the more time passes the more they are simply deceitful garbage, in short: liability. Time will bring liabilities into bad debts desperately needed to be writtenoff. So i cut short (my potential losses), upfront.

In this forum too. Several interactions then slam, enter my ever growing ignore list. I simply do not have respect for people who disrespect themselves.

Edit: about past betrayals, I just moved on. It's very rare that I actually do something to avenge them, infact I couldn't really remember any.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I no longer close the door on people. I leave it open for them to reconcile, and I will likely be the very first to do so and clear things up. Then, I will let the door either close on its own or leave it to others to close it. They always do.
Perhaps I've become an expert at wiping my mental and life "hard drive" of all traces of someone that has passed through my life. No guilt. No remorse. Just a "delete button", because whoever it is was simply not a good human being worth remembering.
I don't know if others can do that?
 

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I no longer close the door on people. I leave it open for them to reconcile, and I will likely be the very first to do so and clear things up. Then, I will let the door either close on its own or leave it to others to close it. They always do.
Perhaps I've become an expert at wiping my mental and life "hard drive" of all traces of someone that has passed through my life. No guilt. No remorse. Just a "delete button", because whoever it is was simply not a good human being worth remembering.
I don't know if others can do that?
That's what I put in my edited part because actually the door slam is only applies NOW.

I simply move on and by the time passes by I would have a renewed benefit of the doubt for the said person. Because I believe people will somewhat mature, recognize their mistakes and do their best within their capacity to improve. As I certainly did.
 
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