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Discussion Starter #1
Hi INTJs,

I'm testing an hypothesis.

Please tell me to what degree (25%, 50%, 75% or 90% of the time) that this is your experience of acquiring knowledge on a day-to-day using intuition:

"Intuition is the ability to acquire knowledge without proof, evidence, or conscious reasoning, or without understanding how the knowledge was acquired"

Thanks,
Sun18
 

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It's below 50 %. It all depends on the degree of use of the other functions between (Ni-Se), especially Te-Fi

My intuition is always based on a set of facts that I review to find the most rational explanation hiding behind an event. It's like connecting all the points between them to form an image hitherto completely unthinkable, an complexe synthesis: the theory.

But it is also the visualization of the future, to imagine all the possibilities and take action in organized way. Sometimes I incorporate imaginary elements around me and act with a real environment.

For me it is a conscious process. Even if sometimes some ideas come when I think of something other than my interest. I am also very oriented towards the concrete.
 

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Plague Doctor
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It's weird. For me, it's a conscious process as well (in that I'm entirely aware I'm doing it), but it's like consciously entering trance or some sort of altered state to access what is just on the brim of consciousness. I do that thing where my eyes sorta stare into space a lot and all.
 

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INTJ's Ni use the raw information from Se to create some "big picture" on their mind, and almost forgot the detail of the information they get.
ISTJ's Si get the "small pitures" from their Ne and sort them like a library.

So Intuition is the ability to see the conection.
 

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It doesn't fit very well. 25% at most. I don't usually parse out how I come to conclusions, but I know that it is always based on something, and if you ask me to, I can usually tell you what led me there.

I have said this a lot lately, and I'll say it again: human beings are smart in many ways, and one of them is pattern recognition. Looking at how things connect and then making predictions based on them is an important tool for our success. I think that pattern recognition is what Jung was talking about when he described intuition. Everybody uses it.
 

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"Intuition is the ability to acquire knowledge without proof, evidence, or conscious reasoning, or without understanding how the knowledge was acquired"
that's what the word intuition means colloquially outside Jung/MBTI

The words used to describe the Jung Functions/MBTi don't mean what they mean outside of Jung (feeling thinking, sensing, extroversion, introversion... same goes for intuition).

W/in Jung the way I interpret/have come to understand the difference between intuition and sensing is a matter of the type of subject matter/information being examined.

Intuition (N) =generalities (theoretical)=applies in any situation ex. general strategies for sports, scientific laws etc.,

whereas Sensing (S) = specifics (situational) = info that applies to the specific situation and so is more focused details that might only apply in the situation and not other situations.

some might disagree and use the colloquial definitions, but at least that is how I interpret MBTI/Jung and it's my belief that if you disagree that likely you misunderstand Jung functions/mbti.

I think Jung used the word Intuition because he's an ENFP and the Jung functions work in pairs so for him Ne was paired w/ Fi and so the N-F pairing he experienced made his theorizing seem like a very abstract intuitive thing. If you read Jung or spend time w/ ENFP you'll see that they can make connections that seem very mysterious even to themselves of how they came up w/ them. Whereas an ENTP like myself can usually explain the train of thought that led to their Ne theories.
 

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that's what the word intuition means colloquially outside Jung/MBTI

The words used to describe the Jung Functions/MBTi don't mean what they mean outside of Jung (feeling thinking, sensing, extroversion, introversion... same goes for intuition).

W/in Jung the way I interpret/have come to understand the difference between intuition and sensing is a matter of the type of subject matter/information being examined.

Intuition (N) =generalities (theoretical)=applies in any situation ex. general strategies for sports, scientific laws etc.,

whereas Sensing (S) = specifics (situational) = info that applies to the specific situation and so is more focused details that might only apply in the situation and not other situations.

some might disagree and use the colloquial definitions, but at least that is how I interpret MBTI/Jung and it's my belief that if you disagree that likely you misunderstand Jung functions/mbti.

I think Jung used the word Intuition because he's an ENFP and the Jung functions work in pairs so for him Ne was paired w/ Fi and so the N-F pairing he experienced made his theorizing seem like a very abstract intuitive thing. If you read Jung or spend time w/ ENFP you'll see that they can make connections that seem very mysterious even to themselves of how they came up w/ them. Whereas an ENTP like myself can usually explain the train of thought that led to their Ne theories.
Jung was most definitely, absolutely not an extravert :p (based on his work, his own words and people who knew him)
also the alternating attitude in the functions was Myers' creation, not his
 

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Probably 95%-99%? I pretty much never use sensing to perceive or understand things going around me. Unless a situation forces the use sensing deliberately, I don't use it at all.

What hypothesis are you trying to test?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Probably 95%-99%? I pretty much never use sensing to perceive or understand things going around me. Unless a situation forces the use sensing deliberately, I don't use it at all.

What hypothesis are you trying to test?
I wanted to know if people who identify as Intuitives agree on a particular definition of intuition - it's clearly not the case.

Sun18
 

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Plague Doctor
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I wanted to know if people who identify as Intuitives agree on a particular definition of intuition - it's clearly not the case.

Sun18
I would imagine that people who use Introverted Intuition will disagree the most as it's subjective. Everyone's inner world is so different. There's the definition of it and then there's the experience of it and those two things are going to be conflated if you're an N dominant.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
There is only one definition.

For the INJ, the introverted intuition is a conscious attitude. Their unconscious attitude is the extraverted sensation.


But the intuition itself is unconscious. That is the flash...
That's a rather vague definition of intuition.

Sun18
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I would imagine that people who use Introverted Intuition will disagree the most as it's subjective. Everyone's inner world is so different. There's the definition of it and then there's the experience of it and those two things are going to be conflated if you're an N dominant.
I think the reason there's not a consensus on the definition of intuition is because most people who identify as Intuitives are in fact Sensors. For example, if I ask 10 native Chinese individuals to describe how to cook a particular traditional Chinese dish, I wouldn't get 10 different conflicting answers.

Sun18
 

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That's a rather vague definition of intuition.

Sun18
Because your question is pretty vague.

You mention "intuition" on INTP (Ne) and INTJ (Ni) forums as if you don't know that there are at least two types of intuition identified by Jung. To know that the introverted Intuition is directed towards the future when the extraverted intuition is toward the immediate possibilities. So necessarily there will be differences in the answers.


And if someone tells you to have 51% intuition and the other, 49%, this is not the way you can determine ...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Because your question is pretty vague.

You mention "intuition" on INTP (Ne) and INTJ (Ni) forums as if you don't know that there are at least two types of intuition identified by Jung. To know that introverted Intuition is directed towards the future when the extraverted intuition is toward the immediate possibilities. So necessarily there will be differences.
I'm very aware of the difference between Ni and Ne. Also, I know very well how I experience Ni. I just wanted to test if others who claim to be Intuitives had the same experience - obviously it's not the case.

Sun18
 

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I'm very aware of the difference between Ni and Ne. Also, I know very well how I experience Ni. I just wanted to test if others who claim to be Intuitives had the same experience - obviously it's not the case.

Sun18
To have a certainty about the future? I think all INTJ here feels concerned. The difference is that we are also extraverted thinkers, so we can explain rationally how this certainty has come to us according to the different elements we gathered. For an INTJ (Ni) is a creative and global synthesis system. We can also be aware that some of this "flash" of consciensous are random and that we have not really the power to predict the future, but just to see the trends.
 

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"Intuition is the ability to acquire knowledge without proof, evidence, or conscious reasoning, or without understanding how the knowledge was acquired"
This would be a definition for something like supernatural revelation not intuition.
 
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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
For the INFJ it makes sense... Because thinking is a distant function. But asking this question on NT forums and waiting for a uniform answer is obviously a mistake.
INFJs are the most rational of all the NFs; we have a balanced brain because Ti is our 3rd function. For example in school, I was a straight A student in the humanities, arts, math and science. So no, Ni as I experience it is not how you describe it.

Sun18
 
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