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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alright, I am sure I cannot be the only one who has been noticing this around the PersonalityCafe community as a whole. But, what is with all of the extreme conformity here while at the same time everyone of any intelligence says: "Don't stereotype!" It seems to me and many of my friends who repeatedly get fed up with the PersonalityCafe community that you either fit into one said type and act like that type while always explaining what you do in terms of that type. Those who cannot or conform (those who realize that their personality is much more dynamic than the unsaid stereotypes) tend to end up as the mysterious "unknown personality" types. This brings me to another point entirely... What is with the egotism here? Why is it that a lot of the people here seems to almost be guarding their ego in their type. Typing to use their type to feel good about themselves and fit into a place where they can use and even be praised for traits that would otherwise be disliked by those interested in self development (Egotism?).

Carl Jung in his life work stressed the idea of a complete psyche. In other words taking all the different parts of the psyche that were in disharmony and helping the individual reach a state of synthesis in their psyche (I'm not going to cite this because anyone who really cares about Jung's work already knows this.) While this whole community in general tends to have the opposite affect. Everyone is expected to be good at their personality types niche and be very unskilled at other types niches.

From personal experience let me show give you real life example vs here.

I know a few INTPs that basically spend all their time playing video games and joking around and honestly not one "logical" INTP in the term that is used here. They are actually very caring and nice people (I would say the social awkward thing is right more than not, but that isn't to say that they can develop their social side.)
INTPs here are generally supposed to be able to use their sharpened Ti to easily (in a Te way) to easily show their flawless logic step by step, be super smart, be uncaring, etc.
(^Yes I know there might be some flaws in everything I am saying... But is riddle me this batman: Who is the wiser man? The one who can see behind the words or the one who can only take the words for their literal meaning and show the idea wrong based on how it was communicated?)

Of course the INTP example brings me to another point. Thinking dominate people who are cruel, mean or rude, feeling people who ignore rationality, intuitives that tend to ignore sensations, and sensors who ignore intuition are all in a sense immature in terms of human growth. Being an asshole as an ESTP does not make you more ESTP... It just makes you an asshole who cannot see how his actions affect those around him. (Again excuse the stereotype, but that seems to be a thing here.)

Finally... This whole system (at least Jungs) is marvelous in terms of helping us as individuals grow and see and understand the world though the viewpoint of those around us. And it really seems that such a realization would not (as it does here) create strife based in ego. But allow people to transcend their ego and find synthesis with their fellow human brothers and sisters. So what excuse does anyone here have for not growing at least a little? (I think the people who respond to this will give the excuses or "rational answers.")

Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you. - Carl Jung
 

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Could it be that PerC is just good at attracting people in the early stages of development? Think about it, would anyone who seeks a truly universal psyche and be somewhat along the road to achieving it really care about the MBTI anymore? Wouldn't they have already seen it for what it is, a tool, and long since abandoned it's definitions and guidelines and be seeking to just become more of who they are? People are attracted to typing as a way to fundamentally understand themselves, the first step in that is to identify with something, anything that explains why you unconsciously do what you do. It takes you from the point of just being an undefined and impossibly complex person, into a type, which is more easily understood.

A large number of the community are in their mid-twenties and under. Developmentally (generally speaking) that's not very far down the food chain of self realisation and actuation. Presumably once a person no longer needs to identify with a type then they probably no longer need to frequent an internet forum that focuses on those early stages of identification. Therefore, they leave and find something more fulfilling.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Thank you for writing what I couldn't put into words. I agree with you fully on everything you said. :)
 
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I guarantee you a lot of it is just people wanting to feel like they belong somewhere. I mean, how often does somebody stick around saying, "My type is so clear and I'm glad now that I understand this theory. Everybody understood me already, but now I know the theory."

The people who are looking for a role to play where society won't reject them aren't in the business of growing and creating a whole self, generally speaking; they're in the business of embracing the role that people will accept them for.

The people who are in the business of growing and creating a whole self are often, similarly, seeking a role where society won't reject them - theirs is the role of the lifetime student, which earns them the respect of their peers for their dedication to growth and self-development.

Much of it comes back to wanting to belong - sticking to a stereotype can afford that. Same reason people seek out religions, political ideologies, and so on. When they're more interested in the badge that comes with the ideology than the content of it, you know what they're really after.

And people who are after that badge will seize any opportunity to flash the badge at anybody who is willing to look at it.

That includes badges like, "I don't have any badges to flash." Some of us are real clever at looking like we're not flashing a badge while doing it, by using the magic trick of misdirection - put the focus on somebody else's badge-flashing, so they won't realize you're doing it.

(I'm totally not doing that right now :p)
 

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My thoughts on the issue between the MBTI type system and personality cafe leans more toward being the result of ignorance rather than deliberate misuse. Most people who find Personality Cafe seem to to just be starting out in having discovered the Myers/Briggs personality typing system. As a result, they get here and usually find one group to which they relate to well and feel most aligned with, within the first week to a month of membership.

Once established into a type role, it seems many people then stop and no longer look into the mechanics of the typing system, but rather, start trying to improve themselves through relating with common problems and learning how to combat those problems through the experience of like-minded individuals or other persons of wisdom. Although not wrong, in-of-itself, that isn't exactly the goal of personality typing. Yes, meeting people like yourself is important(very much so to myself), but in order to use any system of self improvement, one much first learn how it works(or understand the general concept) and then proceed in calculated steps/planned goals so that they might actually achieve the goal that brought them here in the first place.

To their defense though, the Carl Jung's work isn't the easiest to comprehend in regards to this particular part. Myers/Briggs set out to make this a more easily applied and understood system(with some tweaks), but even in the simplified version of things, there is still a lot to be learned about it as a whole. And to my understanding, I've never found an easy one-stop resource that has explained all this out(e.g. How it works, What the components are, How this applies to everyday life, etc...). So, the only way to really 'know' what the MBTI is all about is to either do lots of studying and self research or find people who have done that and learn what they know.

In order to fix the problem, a solution must be readily available. So perhaps a good solution to the problem is to take the time to collect the best of the few great resources found(Internet sources/detailed books/places to ask questions toward professionals/etc...) and make a Sticky thread or something obvious and post it on all the type forums. A second Idea, would be to make something ourselves(those who know the personality system well enough). Almost like making a small "Everything I know about anything MBTI related" book/video/paper/(whatever). This way, things don't have to be so hard to find and learning/understanding the inner workings of it all would become a much simpler process.

This is the best solution I have to problem and perhaps it won't fix it, but it'll at least make this easier for progressing. Also I have looked at a lot of the sticky threads, at least within the INFP forums and few of them have truly useful resources for grasping in full the personality typing system used. Maybe I've missed some threads, but perhaps making a collection of useful threads in one universal forums of the types would make it easier.

Anyway, sorry for the long post :tongue:.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I guarantee you a lot of it is just people wanting to feel like they belong somewhere. I mean, how often does somebody stick around saying, "My type is so clear and I'm glad now that I understand this theory. Everybody understood me already, but now I know the theory."

The people who are looking for a role to play where society won't reject them aren't in the business of growing and creating a whole self, generally speaking; they're in the business of embracing the role that people will accept them for.

The people who are in the business of growing and creating a whole self are often, similarly, seeking a role where society won't reject them - theirs is the role of the lifetime student, which earns them the respect of their peers for their dedication to growth and self-development.

Much of it comes back to wanting to belong - sticking to a stereotype can afford that. Same reason people seek out religions, political ideologies, and so on. When they're more interested in the badge that comes with the ideology than the content of it, you know what they're really after.

And people who are after that badge will seize any opportunity to flash the badge at anybody who is willing to look at it.

That includes badges like, "I don't have any badges to flash." Some of us are real clever at looking like we're not flashing a badge while doing it, by using the magic trick of misdirection - put the focus on somebody else's badge-flashing, so they won't realize you're doing it.

(I'm totally not doing that right now :p)
Who uses theories and ideology just for a badge (human race why ;_; )

Also... Wouldn't you stop caring about a badge after you grow past that stage?

Of course that is also very true it seems... Unfortunately... Although I might say wearing a badge is more for those who care about badges whole those who simply don't care don't need one (and just let people impose the badge they like on you! xD)
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You're not saying anything new buddy. It's probably a combo of internalizing stereotypes and ALSO of the observer attributing behaviour, that is not necessarily type related, to that person's type.
Hmm, also a nice example of group think? Which of course would put popular ideas over those that might be true.

Also, the dynamics on PerC are based on many people who claim to be experts (some even read psychological types woah!) But really do not understand Jung's work or where he's coming from.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
My thoughts on the issue between the MBTI type system and personality cafe leans more toward being the result of ignorance rather than deliberate misuse. Most people who find Personality Cafe seem to to just be starting out in having discovered the Myers/Briggs personality typing system. As a result, they get here and usually find one group to which they relate to well and feel most aligned with, within the first week to a month of membership.

Once established into a type role, it seems many people then stop and no longer look into the mechanics of the typing system, but rather, start trying to improve themselves through relating with common problems and learning how to combat those problems through the experience of like-minded individuals or other persons of wisdom. Although not wrong, in-of-itself, that isn't exactly the goal of personality typing. Yes, meeting people like yourself is important(very much so to myself), but in order to use any system of self improvement, one much first learn how it works(or understand the general concept) and then proceed in calculated steps/planned goals so that they might actually achieve the goal that brought them here in the first place.

To their defense though, the Carl Jung's work isn't the easiest to comprehend in regards to this particular part. Myers/Briggs set out to make this a more easily applied and understood system(with some tweaks), but even in the simplified version of things, there is still a lot to be learned about it as a whole. And to my understanding, I've never found an easy one-stop resource that has explained all this out(e.g. How it works, What the components are, How this applies to everyday life, etc...). So, the only way to really 'know' what the MBTI is all about is to either do lots of studying and self research or find people who have done that and learn what they know.

In order to fix the problem, a solution must be readily available. So perhaps a good solution to the problem is to take the time to collect the best of the few great resources found(Internet sources/detailed books/places to ask questions toward professionals/etc...) and make a Sticky thread or something obvious and post it on all the type forums. A second Idea, would be to make something ourselves(those who know the personality system well enough). Almost like making a small "Everything I know about anything MBTI related" book/video/paper/(whatever). This way, things don't have to be so hard to find and learning/understanding the inner workings of it all would become a much simpler process.

This is the best solution I have to problem and perhaps it won't fix it, but it'll at least make this easier for progressing. Also I have looked at a lot of the sticky threads, at least within the INFP forums and few of them have truly useful resources for grasping in full the personality typing system used. Maybe I've missed some threads, but perhaps making a collection of useful threads in one universal forums of the types would make it easier.

Anyway, sorry for the long post :tongue:.
Psychological Types is hard to understand because of the translation and such... Jung's other books are much more easy and help one understand the perspective Jung was coming from.

I also would say that Jung's analytical psychology is based in looking behind the seemingly obvious to find the real cause. And I think a lot of confusion comes form taking types from Jungs system based on more mutable principles and applying it to Freud's system that tries to systemize it more.

And ignorance... ;_;

Hmm, so what could we do to possibly get some things more on track vs the mess this is now?
 

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I've been on several personality websites, and it's the same there too. It's the same everywhere.

You talk about your type, and it's as though that's the only filter to which you are entitled. You're not human, you're a walking, talking paradigm. Worse is when there are "cool" and "undesirable" types, and people use the undesirables as an insult. Of course, anyone typing as a cool type is held to an unreasonable standard. And if you get sick of the bullshit and declare yourself typeless, then you're being an entitled attention whore. What do people want?

Even now, I explain things from my perspective as an ENTP. And if it's an area not touched upon by cognition, I seem to get a number of people suggesting alternatives. And not that I mind, but we use all the functions and we all have different backgrounds and perspectives. I can talk about different sides of myself, surely, and still have the cognitive core of Ne+Ti. I personally like explaining how it works with me, as well as breaking down stereotypes, which is why I stay here.

What I think it is, is that first, personality type is an agreed upon set of behaviors or other attributes that explain our differences fairly well. It can be easy to get into that paradigm, see it everywhere, and then be hard-pressed to get back out again. I started off in Enneagram, and sometimes I see people who've mastered the MBTI/JCF side of things come over...and everything they say about themselves has been shaped by knowledge of MBTI/JCF. It's pervasive and can be hard to break free from when it forms a major part of your world view.

Second, as others have mentioned, many on here are high-school- and college-aged. Many simply don't have the perspective necessary for seeing all sides of themselves and/or others, which comes with age and experience. Of course, the more pessimistic side here is that, well, people are immature and naive. They like popularity contests and drama and are used to things being rule-bound and clear cut.

It's also a social phenomenon. I'm outside "the age range" here, and some of the things I read honestly has made it hard to come to ascertain my true type(s). I hesitate to speak up in some cases because I know I'll be shot down by some suburban kid who doesn't even know anyone of my type, and because he's in line with the theory, people will take his advice over mine. And it's like, this stuff is helping me a lot, and maybe honest testimony could help someone else...but I don't want to deal with constant annoyances. I have a real life, and it would be better for me to put my energy into that, than to navigate forum politics. It's probably this way with many of the sane, mature people who could offer potentially useful perspectives. As always, the extremists take over.

Last, I think it's a bit unfair to say everyone's fond of their "badge". Maybe some are. Maybe other people understand the concepts behind that badge. Maybe understanding themselves according to the framework helps them target problem areas in life. Reducing it to "you need a badge" is hugely insulting to those who actually are benefiting from it and reduces the complexity of human motivations for learning personality theory.

Anyway, I'm not really saying anything new, but that's my perspective anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I've been on several personality websites, and it's the same there too. It's the same everywhere.

You talk about your type, and it's as though that's the only filter to which you are entitled. You're not human, you're a walking, talking paradigm. Worse is when there are "cool" and "undesirable" types, and people use the undesirables as an insult. Of course, anyone typing as a cool type is held to an unreasonable standard. And if you get sick of the bullshit and declare yourself typeless, then you're being an entitled attention whore. What do people want?

Even now, I explain things from my perspective as an ENTP. And if it's an area not touched upon by cognition, I seem to get a number of people suggesting alternatives. And not that I mind, but we use all the functions and we all have different backgrounds and perspectives. I can talk about different sides of myself, surely, and still have the cognitive core of Ne+Ti. I personally like explaining how it works with me, as well as breaking down stereotypes, which is why I stay here.

What I think it is, is that first, personality type is an agreed upon set of behaviors or other attributes that explain our differences fairly well. It can be easy to get into that paradigm, see it everywhere, and then be hard-pressed to get back out again. I started off in Enneagram, and sometimes I see people who've mastered the MBTI/JCF side of things come over...and everything they say about themselves has been shaped by knowledge of MBTI/JCF. It's pervasive and can be hard to break free from when it forms a major part of your world view.

Second, as others have mentioned, many on here are high-school- and college-aged. Many simply don't have the perspective necessary for seeing all sides of themselves and/or others, which comes with age and experience. Of course, the more pessimistic side here is that, well, people are immature and naive. They like popularity contests and drama and are used to things being rule-bound and clear cut.

It's also a social phenomenon. I'm outside "the age range" here, and some of the things I read honestly has made it hard to come to ascertain my true type(s). I hesitate to speak up in some cases because I know I'll be shot down by some suburban kid who doesn't even know anyone of my type, and because he's in line with the theory, people will take his advice over mine. And it's like, this stuff is helping me a lot, and maybe honest testimony could help someone else...but I don't want to deal with constant annoyances. I have a real life, and it would be better for me to put my energy into that, than to navigate forum politics. It's probably this way with many of the sane, mature people who could offer potentially useful perspectives. As always, the extremists take over.

Last, I think it's a bit unfair to say everyone's fond of their "badge". Maybe some are. Maybe other people understand the concepts behind that badge. Maybe understanding themselves according to the framework helps them target problem areas in life. Reducing it to "you need a badge" is hugely insulting to those who actually are benefiting from it and reduces the complexity of human motivations for learning personality theory.

Anyway, I'm not really saying anything new, but that's my perspective anyway.
Yeah... I can see what you're getting at. This is why systemizing is useful since no matter how much we like our freedom it breeds chaos.

I would personally say I use Ni dominantly, but... I do not really seem to grasp what my auxiliary function would be since it really does seem to me as if I actually switch back and forth... Which hmm...

I feel like a highly evolved person would be rather good at all the functions given enough time and willingness... I can say from experience why it is a bad idea to use opposing functions without synthesis. Basically it causes a split which shifts back and forth between the two said functions until one is chosen over the other and ignores the other... Hmm...

Note: this is last bit is my experience and I am in no way saying it is objective.
 
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