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Discussion Starter #1
I read somewhere about INFPs tackling social injustices and personal values something or other and how we can dig in our heels stubbornly with stuff we feel strongly about...

I take all descriptions of that sort with a grain of salt, but literally five seconds ago I just delivered a smack down to an idiot regarding teachers and education. I enjoyed it viscerally, and it occurred to me that maybe I am a crusader.

So what's your hot-button issue that makes you argue passionately?
 

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That when you say you don't want kids that you're apparently 'immature' and 'don't know what you want'. I thought about myself, personality, willingness, financial situation, etc. Lots of thinking. And apparently a 10 year old is more praiseworthy when she talks about her imaginary future babies.

Telling me that my dogs aren't really a part of my family. Wtf? They mean more to me than most of my relatives!

Too old to be playing video games. Uhh, no. Do you see all the work in graphic designs, story, characters, etc.?! It's like an interactive, visual book!

Edit: Forgot to add. Pro-choice so I'll be damned if anyone tries to stop me from getting an abortion. My business.
 

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Argue passionatly....? I don't know, I'm typically not an extravertedly passionate person but I suppose the one thing that has always brought me out of my shell is ignorance whether it be intentional or unintentional(yes there are intentionally ignorant undiscerning unwilling to understand people in this world and thy boil my blood grr. ) Unintentional ignorance gives me the desire to teach and reveal, Intentional ignorance makes me go into crusade mode and it is the only thing that can XD The sad part of this is that I'm trying to convince people who willfully go against everything loving and understanding that they should be so...halarious in hind sight...but sad T.T

...I think my Definition of ignorance might be slightly different from some but I think you get the idea ;)
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Argue passionatly....? I don't know, I'm typically not an extravertedly passionate person but I suppose the one thing that has always brought me out of my shell is ignorance whether it be intentional or unintentional(yes there are intentionally ignorant undiscerning unwilling to understand people in this world and thy boil my blood grr. ) Unintentional ignorance gives me the desire to teach and reveal, Intentional ignorance makes me go into crusade mode and it is the only thing that can XD The sad part of this is that I'm trying to convince people who willfully go against everything loving and understanding that they should be so...halarious in hind sight...but sad T.T

...I think my Definition of ignorance might be slightly different from some but I think you get the idea ;)
Actually I totally agree with your division of ignorance into two categories.
 
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Welp, this stuff tends to happen, but for me its mostly just a reaction. Somebody says something stupid, does something stupid and I'll start debating, quoting things etc (this is sort of 6-ish stuff), but every once in a while someone steps on something important to me and I just explode into full on activist/I'm going to crush that idiot!. (lots of criticism and picking their logic apart, exposing the idiotic bits and pouring salt into the wound). I can also be very defensive of personal values.

Some of this correlates really well with being type 6.

^^ God help the idiot I catch doing something amoral.
 

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Humanism and new atheism for me.

I think religion is a key cause of alot of injustice in the world, and the lack of critical thinking that religion tends to promote retards the progress of humanity towards a prevailing sentiment of commonality, and scientific progress.

If ethics was generally based on commonality and sentient well being, and if we focused on global scientific literacy - I think the world would be a much better place than it is.

Imagine if this was the prevailing foundation for ethics;

Humanists endorse universal morality based on the commonality of human nature, and that knowledge of right and wrong is based on our best understanding of our individual and joint interests, rather than stemming from a transcendental or arbitrarily local source, therefore rejecting faith completely as a basis for action.



The humanist ethics goal is a search for viable individual, social and political principles of conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility, ultimately eliminating human suffering.


Humanism is known to adopt principles of the Golden Rule, of which the best-known English formulation is found in the words of Jesus of Nazareth, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Also consider the quote by Oscar Wilde: "Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live." This quotation emphasizes the respect for others' identity and ideals while downplaying the effects one has on others.
- Wikipedia Secular ethics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

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I'd say I have two main ones that are incredibly strong, probably because I've had first-hand experience with both of them: abortion (from a very strongly pro-choice viewpoint) and the rights of mental health patients. Environmental issues are up there as well, along with issues surrounding gay rights, homelessness/poverty and capitalism. Any of those can get me arguing passionately.
 

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I suck at arguing, but some issue that I am passionate about include the legalization of drugs, regulation of advertising, and the pharmaceutical industry.
 
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DEUS VULT INFPs !


It is interesting to see how one of the most conflict-averse types can become passionate when certain conditions are met.
On a scale from 0 to 10 how pleasurable it is to smite (metaphorically or not) someone who acts against your Fi ?
 

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Argue passionatly....? I don't know, I'm typically not an extravertedly passionate person but I suppose the one thing that has always brought me out of my shell is ignorance whether it be intentional or unintentional(yes there are intentionally ignorant undiscerning unwilling to understand people in this world and thy boil my blood grr. ) Unintentional ignorance gives me the desire to teach and reveal, Intentional ignorance makes me go into crusade mode and it is the only thing that can XD The sad part of this is that I'm trying to convince people who willfully go against everything loving and understanding that they should be so...halarious in hind sight...but sad T.T

...I think my Definition of ignorance might be slightly different from some but I think you get the idea ;)
It's one in my list, and it's very related to people who are so fanatical about a politician they become blind to their corruption. Ohhh, how it really infuriates me when people become parrots....

Injustice is another thing. A month ago I watched as an, approximately 12 year old girl stole some chocolates from a market, and I, who never speaks with strangers waited until they were outside, as to not embarrass her in front of other people, and told her what her daughter did.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
@Hapalo

I'd say personally it depends on how reasonable the objection is, and the way in which it is delivered. If it is a rational, logical argument delivered in a way that completely considers my points and responds to them respectfully then I must admit the validity of their points with no smiling involved, even if we agree to disagree. Call that a draw--a 5.

A zero would be when I am proven to be wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt to the point wherei must realize with bitter anguish that the thing I've been so passionate about was totally fallacious. Egg on face? 0.

Best thing on earth is when a condescending jackass idiot decides to go all mighty superior on me and says things that make absolutely no sense and calls me dumb. Then I take great pleasure in ripping him (or her) apart in the most ruthless and vindictive and rational way I possibly can. I give that a 27 on your scale. :)
 
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Discussion Starter #13
It's one in my list, and it's very related to people who are so fanatical about a politician they become blind to their corruption. Ohhh, how it really infuriates me when people become parrots....

Injustice is another thing. A month ago I watched as an, approximately 12 year old girl stole some chocolates from a market, and I, who never speaks with strangers waited until they were outside, as to not embarrass her in front of other people, and told her what her daughter did.
One time I saw something similar, and told the mother I saw her kid steal something, and she told me to mind my own effing business and started to walk away. (!!!)
 

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In my case she never said anything, but I had the feeling her daughter would be having it in double spoons.
 

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In my case she never said anything, but I had the feeling her daughter would be having it in double spoons.
Personally, I love the way you handled that. I would have had no clue "how" to proceed if I were to see something like that...probably would've told the manager or something in a lame tattle-tale way but the way you did it was pure poetry ;)
 
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When someone picks on another infuriates me! I hate when timid, meek, and peacful people are intruded upon and disrepected. I've always had a strong sense of protecting and defending those who are wrongfully treated. I've gotten into some heated debates and even fights over crap like that. But i mean i really just can't stand when someone's put into an unfair situation, I can honestly say i would even help my most bitter enemy from an unfair situation. Perhaps this makes me naive and foolish but i can't help how i react to situations like those.
 

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Humanism and new atheism for me.

I think religion is a key cause of alot of injustice in the world, and the lack of critical thinking that religion tends to promote retards the progress of humanity towards a prevailing sentiment of commonality, and scientific progress.

If ethics was generally based on commonality and sentient well being, and if we focused on global scientific literacy - I think the world would be a much better place than it is.

Imagine if this was the prevailing foundation for ethics;

- Wikipedia Secular ethics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I concur whole-heartedly. Though, I have no problems with religion, I think a lot of people use (and have used) it as an excuse to do horrible things 'in the name of their religion'. These people are often extremists, who often distort their faiths teachings to fit whatever end they want to justify achieving. The way I see it, everyone has the right to live by whatever belief system they choose-but to impose anything on others, isn't right. Religion isn't set in stone, most texts have been translated and recited for so long, that their messages might no longer apply to modern times, or they might have gone entirely astray, like a game of 'telephone'. Part of the reason I'm agnostic is that I don't think there can be a single universal truth, because everyone, from their perspective is right. So, I'm a fence-sitter. I haven't ruled out the possibility that there might be a higher power. I haven't seen much to convince me, but nevertheless, it might happen one day. I admire people's ability to put so much faith and stock in any religion, but I personally can't. I'd much rather stick to my own morals/values. I suppose that's my crusade. When people try to convince me to go to church, or to think a certain way-I hold onto my beliefs. It would feel wrong for me to sit in church when I don't necessarily believe. I'd rather find my own way in the world, and whatever rings true to me, I'll add to my spiritual-sphere, and that's where I'll remain.

Now I feel like ranting a little bit.
Here's another hot button issue of mine. I grew up with people telling me that animals were 'put on this earth for us to use to our will'. I have a lot of hunters in my family. Whenever I was told this, in an attempt to convince me to eat meat-I could feel my blood boiling. These are just my views, but I just feel that it's awfully arrogant of us as a species to think we can stamp out the life of whatever we want, just because we can. I agree, that sometimes it's a necessity to hunt-for survival purposes. But we don't always do that. We often do it for sport. I just feel that there are so many creatures killed to fill our supermarkets with the quota, to make sure that ever grocery store has a certain amount of meat available at all times. And of course that amount must be available in every store, all the time, because that's 'convenience'. We don't need all that. Half of it spoils before anyone buys it, and is thrown out by the box full. I could go on about other things that bother me, but case in point-I don't think we're always deserving of that lofty chair in the animal kingdom we like to think we sit on. By losing our respect for other beings, I think this makes us even less deserving of our place. I just think the 'human dominion over all' standpoint isn't right. We all keep this planet going, and everything has it's place. We don't have claws or fangs, so our intellect and ingenuity is the only thing keeping us where we are. Maybe I'm a hippie for thinking this way. Who knows, my pacifistic views might be entirely unrealistic and illogical-but that's how I feel.

*sigh, ranting is quite draining. But it feels good!


Because somehow this felt relevant...Start at 26 seconds.
(This movie always made me cry...and still...does.)
 

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It is interesting to see how one of the most conflict-averse types can become passionate when certain conditions are met.
On a scale from 0 to 10 how pleasurable it is to smite (metaphorically or not) someone who acts against your Fi ?
Me and my ENFJ friend laugh about the complete reversal we can have when someone finally gets us angry about an injustice. Our faces, which are usually good-humored and gentle, become dark and forboding. It's like a sudden thunderstorm just erupted, and we're holding back the winds of distruction from the insullent pup in front of us and we're just ASKING for a reason to unleash it all on them. Like that scene at the end of Indiana Jones when they open the Ark. Marimeli said 27 and I laughed. We might just have to pump that up to 57. There's not going to be much left after we're done!!!

Most of the things mentioned so far I also identify with, ESPECIALLY the purposely ignorant people, with the added addendum that these people are usually also the one's that feel they know better than everyone else and are trying to force their views on everyone around them. Please keep the stupidness in your own quadrant, thank you!

I'm fiercely protective of those I care about. I will go into supersized kickass mode if you dare mess with those I care about in any way. Even if they don't realize what you're doing, or maybe, especially if they don't know what you're doing. I do not care if you're a hulking monster 10 times my size. I can and will bring you down.

And I will get vehement with anyone that seems to be destroying something good for their own enjoyment.

I always say, pity the person that brings out my ire.
 

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Children and young people is a big thing for me. Having spent the entirety of my childhood years growing up feeling as though the only people who would treat me with respect and as an equal were my parents, never mind the persecution I faced by my peers, I can scarcely believe the conditions some kids around the world have to endure. I want to be their advocate, their voice. So often I see youth sidelined and persecuted - not being taken seriously, being seen as immature, having their emotions invalidated and just generally being treated like a second class of human being because they're "too young to know better". Bollocks to that. It's not even just about giving leverage to the disempowered, but also about what constitutes many peoples' approaches to parenting, which I would consider as tantamount to a complete failure in human relations. I recall an incident where there was a young mother in the bus station where I commute who was getting all giddy and excited with one of her friends about her Facebook profile pictures. All the while, her son - no older than two years - was constantly calling out and crying for attention, even going so far as to swipe her handbag and tug at her jeans. All she had to offer in return was the dismissive reassurance that she'd be there in a few minutes - not even bothering to turn around! She even had the nerve to ask me to take a picture of her and this other girl! At this point I had reached breaking point and told her flat out that I thought her the needs of her son were more important than her pathetic little profile picture, and stormed out of the bus station. (I walked.)

By extension, injustice and emotional invalidation in general rile me up. Intentional ignorance is another one - the degree of suffering in this world that could be prevented were one to take it upon themselves as rational human beings to at the very least refuse to turn a blind eye to reality. It extends to pretty much anything you want. I also believe that video games as a medium are sorely misunderstood and will fight that one to my death. With a wave of the hand, to be lumped in with the hordes of compulsive gore-loving, FPS-playing Xbots (not that FPS aren't fun but you know the stereotype I mean) does both myself and the industry a huge disservice. The degree to which games helped my imagination to flourish, even giving me social and competitive outlets and refining my literary skills can't really be explained in words and must be fully experienced with a mind malleable enough to understand both sides of the coin. Games too can aspire to art.

Really though I don't think there's anything I'm more passionate about than young people's welfare. It's ironic, in a way. The only thing holding me back from doing anything about it is my lack of confidence in my social skills and the memory that many of them were little twats - but how much of that was down to environment, I wouldn't like to say.
 
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