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Discussion Starter #1
I always believed that everything happened for a reason, and that everyone had a set path in life. Now I'm not so sure. someone important to me suggested otherwise, and a lot of things have happened me that can support this. It has really got me thinking. Are we just random beings not destined for anything? I really don't want to believe this, but I am starting to believe it more and more as time goes by. It is very unsettling for me. What do you think? If you believe that there is no such thing as destiny, and nothing is really meant to be, please help me become more comfortable with this notion.
 

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I think the things that we go through are the result of fate and destiny, but how we react to them is independent of those factors. Our choices aren't predetermined.

Then again, part of me will always believe in this "everything happens for a reason" philosophy. Something about it is soothing, like there was actually a point to suffering and going through bad experiences.
 

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I think we have a basic set path, but many variables. Even if life is random and meaningless, what is it that bugs you about that? Think of an empty canvas and you have life. You can paint the most profound and beauteous of paintings, or a terrible and dark painting, or like most people a painting that's in between. In other words, life is like a piece of art or music or etc. It is meaningless unless we give it meaning. Other will have their own beliefs which may shape us a bit, but it is our canvas in the end to do with what we want.
 

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I sort of think of it kind of like the way water flows through a stream - the general direction which the water flows is set, but there are always going to be whirlpools and eddies, faster and slower moving sections, rapids, waterfalls, etc. so that each individual water molecule might move in directions of its own, some which might even seem counter to the general direction of the stream itself, but in the end, still ends up where it is meant to be.

The question that has always plagued me about any form of predestination is who or what predetermines our path? To me, the idea of predestination relies on their being God, karma, or some other supernatural force, which raises a whole lot of other questions, which I can't so easily answer.
 

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Our future will be the result of a sequence of causes and effects, and of our own choices. In my opinion, fate doesn't exist, and if it does it has to be absolute to the point that it's like it doesn't influence the world at all: if I time-travel into the past and change something about the current situation, fate won't stop me and I won't be fighting it; the fact that I changed the present was fate too.
The fact that we were born wasn't decided by fate and at the same time isn't random (at least not completely): it's the result of thousands of past events and choices. But random things exist too, and we should be grateful to those coincidences, because if it weren't for them we wouldn't be alive.
Things change when we talk about souls and ask ourselves "why am I living my life and not someone else's?". This may be because of fate, or have a specific reason, or be totally random. Nothing nor nobody can tell you that you're wrong to believe that you are yourself because of fate. After all, there were so many possibilities; you could have been born in another country, another century, another world, but you didn't, and you're free to choose what you want to believe.
You have your life and you can do whatever you want with it. Are you destined to change the world? The answer is up to you, and the fact that you were born with the best tools and in the best circumstances to do it (or to do something else in particular) could be fate.
You believe that everything happens for a reason and everyone has a set path in life, you can find hints that support your opinion and no one has the right to force you to change your mind, but if something makes you think that you may be wrong, that's not the end. Your existence is not meaningless, if you give it a meaning; and before anything else, it's something beautiful, precious and important as it is.
 

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I follow the generally less favorable view of Determinism, which argues that everything is fixed or pre-determined based on an antecedent causal chain of events and cannot be deviated from. While some view this as discouraging, I actually find it quite empowering as it can open you up to seeing a greater web of interconnected relationships between... well, everything in existence. I find it fascinating that the reason why I may behave a certain way is not simply because of a basic choice or mood at the moment, but rather an interplay of seemingly infinite variables whereas if one was altered slightly in the past, I could quite possibly be an entirely different being. For me, it adds a lot more meaning to everything than anything I can conceptually come up with, even through endless thought.

Still, just like with any personality type, enneagram, what have you, there is always a seemingly massive gap in terms of the differences between a healthy and unhealthy person of this type and their perceptions.
 

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I agree with @kaleidoscope. i believe in "everything happens for a reason" as far as the events that happen to us...those happen to us for a reason. Either to help us learn something, to help us grow, or something else.

I also believe we all have a purpose here. It is one of our missions in life to find out what that purpose is. Our choices are not predetermined though. You choose your own path.
 

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We are all the main character in our very own novel series. The paths of life intertwine in ways we can never predict; there is something to be learned from everything. Each of us has a beginning and an end, but only we can decide how we spend the main plot.

Also, life sucks sometimes. But don't let it get you down! After all, you can't go backwards, only forwards. As a friend of mine tells me, there is naught to do but carry on.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I think we have a basic set path, but many variables. Even if life is random and meaningless, what is it that bugs you about that? Think of an empty canvas and you have life. You can paint the most profound and beauteous of paintings, or a terrible and dark painting, or like most people a painting that's in between. In other words, life is like a piece of art or music or etc. It is meaningless unless we give it meaning. Other will have their own beliefs which may shape us a bit, but it is our canvas in the end to do with what we want.
The way you put it makes it sound a lot better. What bothers me about it is the fact that, the way I am, and the way I feel about things (the way my brain fuctions), can't just be a random occurance. Or at least I don't want it to be. I was always the square peg in a round world and believing that I don't have a set path in life makes me feel like I'm some sort of genetic fuck up. It makes me feel like who I am is wrong.
I always believed that everyone has a set purpose in life, and it is up to us to find it. I like to think that everyone has some sort of talent or nich. And they must use that to benefit society, like an ecosytem. Everyone has there part to do. The system just seems too perfect for there not to be at least some sort of set path for everyone to follow. But like I said, I'm not so sure anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
"Also, life sucks sometimes. But don't let it get you down! After all, you can't go backwards, only forwards. As a friend of mine tells me, there is naught to do but carry on."


Very true. I don't know why it's so easy for me to forget that.
 

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I'm glad some of what I said helps you a bit. All the advice I've seen so far has been quite good. Don't let life drag you down. It's short enough as it is. If you ever want to chat just private message me. Life may be random or it might not, but like I said, that doesn't mean we can't give it meaning if it is random. I think though there may be more to it that we just can't comprehend yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Our future will be the result of a sequence of causes and effects, and of our own choices. In my opinion, fate doesn't exist, and if it does it has to be absolute to the point that it's like it doesn't influence the world at all: if I time-travel into the past and change something about the current situation, fate won't stop me and I won't be fighting it; the fact that I changed the present was fate too.
The fact that we were born wasn't decided by fate and at the same time isn't random (at least not completely): it's the result of thousands of past events and choices. But random things exist too, and we should be grateful to those coincidences, because if it weren't for them we wouldn't be alive.
Things change when we talk about souls and ask ourselves "why am I living my life and not someone else's?". This may be because of fate, or have a specific reason, or be totally random. Nothing nor nobody can tell you that you're wrong to believe that you are yourself because of fate. After all, there were so many possibilities; you could have been born in another country, another century, another world, but you didn't, and you're free to choose what you want to believe.
You have your life and you can do whatever you want with it. Are you destined to change the world? The answer is up to you, and the fact that you were born with the best tools and in the best circumstances to do it (or to do something else in particular) could be fate.
You believe that everything happens for a reason and everyone has a set path in life, you can find hints that support your opinion and no one has the right to force you to change your mind, but if something makes you think that you may be wrong, that's not the end. Your existence is not meaningless, if you give it a meaning; and before anything else, it's something beautiful, precious and important as it is.
That was amazing. I'm very glad you posted your thoughts.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
I follow the generally less favorable view of Determinism, which argues that everything is fixed or pre-determined based on an antecedent causal chain of events and cannot be deviated from. While some view this as discouraging, I actually find it quite empowering as it can open you up to seeing a greater web of interconnected relationships between... well, everything in existence. I find it fascinating that the reason why I may behave a certain way is not simply because of a basic choice or mood at the moment, but rather an interplay of seemingly infinite variables whereas if one was altered slightly in the past, I could quite possibly be an entirely different being. For me, it adds a lot more meaning to everything than anything I can conceptually come up with, even through endless thought.

Still, just like with any personality type, enneagram, what have you, there is always a seemingly massive gap in terms of the differences between a healthy and unhealthy person of this type and their perceptions.
Very intresting perspective, but I also like to think we have a choice in everything. Do you believe that the way you may feel, or the actions you take is only caused by outside occurances, or do we also have to make a conscious decision?
 

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I'm glad some of what I said helps you a bit. All the advice I've seen so far has been quite good. Don't let life drag you down. It's short enough as it is. If you ever want to chat just private message me. Life may be random or it might not, but like I said, that doesn't mean we can't give it meaning if it is random. I think though there may be more to it that we just can't comprehend yet.
Indeed. Everyone here has made a valid point. And thanks. I will be sure to take you up on that.
 
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I don't really have a personal answer but I wanted you to know that I've been straining my brain thinking about destiny and life and magic for the last half an hour haha. The only thing that I keep going back to, is that just because you may no longer believe in destiny - doesn't mean you have to strip your life of magic :)
 

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The universe is so much more organized than most of us realized. I asked myself the same question a decade or so ago. I wanted to understand what was all this about. Was a long quest but was worth the effort. In the bigger picture of things, we are all here to growth. We growth through our interactions with each other. Depending on how much you have previously learned there is more planning involved before coming here so you can get the most of this experience as possible. The "system/God/source" usually nudges you through synchronicity( giving you what you need exactly when you needed it), intuition,etc so you follow the path that was pre-arrenged although free will is always first. Even if something was "mean" to happen you could choose a total new direction...because the objective is learning. It really doesn't matter what path you follow to achieve this.

Here is an example from a very interesting book Journey of Souls wrote by an hypnotherapist. If you wonder how the afterlife could look alike you should read it...even if you don't believe in this...makes you wonder:

I can speak about recognition signs from personal experience, since I was blessed by three specific clues to help me find my wife. Thumbing through Look magazine as a teenager, I once saw a Christmas advertisement for Hamilton watches modeled by a
beautiful dark-haired woman dressed in white. The caption in the ad said, "To Peggy," because she was holding a wristwatch as a gift from an imaginary husband. An odd sensation came over me, and I never forgot the name or face.

On my twenty-first birthday I received a watch of the same make from a favorite aunt. A few years later, while attending a graduate school in Phoenix, I was washing a load of white laundry one Saturday. Suddenly, the first trigger was activated in my
mind with the message, "It's time to meet the woman in white." I tried to shake it off, but the face in the ad pushed all other thoughts away. I stopped, looked at my Hamilton watch and heard the command, "Go now." I thought about who wears
white. Acting as if I was obsessed, I went to the largest hospital in the city and asked at the desk for a nurse matching the name and description.

I was told there was such a person who was coming off her shift. When I saw her, I was stunned by the resemblance to the picture in my mind. Our meeting was awkward and embarrassing, but later we sat in the lobby and talked non-stop for
four hours as old friends who hadn't seen each other for a while-which, of course, was true. I waited until after we were married to tell my wife about the reason I came to her hospital and the clues given to me to find her. I didn't want her to think
I was crazy. It was then I learned that on the day of our first meeting she had told her astonished friends, "I just met the man I'm going to marry.


Just something to consider about ;p. Remember that this is your story. You are in control. If you don't like something about your life then change it. At the end we are the only one responsible for the ultimate outcome of our lives. We all have a purpose. People since ancient times have figure it out although most of the time they use metaphors and most people think is gibberish but once you get it, you truly understand what they were talking about and why love is the answer..could elaborate if you want.
 

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The universe is so much more organized than most of us realized. I asked myself the same question a decade or so ago. I wanted to understand what was all this about. Was a long quest but was worth the effort. In the bigger picture of things, we are all here to growth. We growth through our interactions with each other. Depending on how much you have previously learned there is more planning involved before coming here so you can get the most of this experience as possible. The "system/God/source" usually nudges you through synchronicity( giving you what you need exactly when you needed it), intuition,etc so you follow the path that was pre-arrenged although free will is always first. Even if something was "mean" to happen you could choose a total new direction...because the objective is learning. It really doesn't matter what path you follow to achieve this.

Here is an example from a very interesting book Journey of Souls wrote by an hypnotherapist. If you wonder how the afterlife could look alike you should read it...even if you don't believe in this...makes you wonder:

I can speak about recognition signs from personal experience, since I was blessed by three specific clues to help me find my wife. Thumbing through Look magazine as a teenager, I once saw a Christmas advertisement for Hamilton watches modeled by a
beautiful dark-haired woman dressed in white. The caption in the ad said, "To Peggy," because she was holding a wristwatch as a gift from an imaginary husband. An odd sensation came over me, and I never forgot the name or face.

On my twenty-first birthday I received a watch of the same make from a favorite aunt. A few years later, while attending a graduate school in Phoenix, I was washing a load of white laundry one Saturday. Suddenly, the first trigger was activated in my
mind with the message, "It's time to meet the woman in white." I tried to shake it off, but the face in the ad pushed all other thoughts away. I stopped, looked at my Hamilton watch and heard the command, "Go now." I thought about who wears
white. Acting as if I was obsessed, I went to the largest hospital in the city and asked at the desk for a nurse matching the name and description.

I was told there was such a person who was coming off her shift. When I saw her, I was stunned by the resemblance to the picture in my mind. Our meeting was awkward and embarrassing, but later we sat in the lobby and talked non-stop for
four hours as old friends who hadn't seen each other for a while-which, of course, was true. I waited until after we were married to tell my wife about the reason I came to her hospital and the clues given to me to find her. I didn't want her to think
I was crazy. It was then I learned that on the day of our first meeting she had told her astonished friends, "I just met the man I'm going to marry.


Just something to consider about ;p. Remember that this is your story. You are in control. If you don't like something about your life then change it. At the end we are the only one responsible for the ultimate outcome of our lives. We all have a purpose. People since ancient times have figure it out although most of the time they use metaphors and most people think is gibberish but once you get it, you truly understand what they were talking about and why love is the answer..could elaborate if you want.
This reminds me of how I met my cat.

For the longest time I'd been terrified of cats because we had one when I was small that bit and scratched me with little provocation. Then about two years ago I decided I wanted to get over my issues and asked my mom for a kitten, since I'm more comfortable with them and it seemed like a good place to start. Of course, my parents are dog people like me, and I got shot down.

Then came Christmas of that year, and we where up in town for a local festival walking through the sleet and rain. When we where getting ready to leave my sister saw a young tortoiseshell cat huddled under a car trying to get out of the weather. She wasn't feral, quite friendly in fact, and due to the situation we decided it wasn't safe to leave her there. So I put aside my problems and wrapped her up in my coat and we took her home with us. Our plan was to get the cat to a shelter, but even after a few weeks we couldn't find anyone who had the space. Me and my sister named her Noel, and she's still with us. But she's not my cat.

My dad really can't stand cats, so he made us put her in the garage with provisions. The thing is, there is a wild yellow tom my sister has been feeding since he was a kitten himself whom we call Alex. After a month or two of living in our garage Noel got pregnant, and lo and behold when her kittens where born two of them where yellow toms. There were five of them in all, and all but two of them were skittish as hell. One of the friendly ones was a black female kitten who my sister named Bella (I objected, but it stuck. I changed her full name to Bellatrix later.) and the other was a little grey tiger striped guy who was the runt of the litter.

We tried really hard to save that tiger striped kitten, but he was just too weak. One day I came in to check on them and he was just so far away. So I picked him up and tried to keep him warm, and a few minutes later he passed away in my arms. It was the first thing I'd ever really seen die.

The three remaining skittish ones all got good homes, we hear about them every now and again. But Bella never went anywhere. No one ever asked for her. After what happened to her brother I lavished that little cat with attention, and she got stuck on me somehow. One of my happiest memories of the kittens was when she had just opened her eyes and got around by following my feet wherever I went. She's a year and a half old now, and has never once bitten or scratched me. She's my baby, who only shares my heart with my dog Angel.

TL;DR: Weird things happen between me and pets!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The universe is so much more organized than most of us realized. I asked myself the same question a decade or so ago. I wanted to understand what was all this about. Was a long quest but was worth the effort. In the bigger picture of things, we are all here to growth. We growth through our interactions with each other. Depending on how much you have previously learned there is more planning involved before coming here so you can get the most of this experience as possible. The "system/God/source" usually nudges you through synchronicity( giving you what you need exactly when you needed it), intuition,etc so you follow the path that was pre-arrenged although free will is always first. Even if something was "mean" to happen you could choose a total new direction...because the objective is learning. It really doesn't matter what path you follow to achieve this.

Here is an example from a very interesting book Journey of Souls wrote by an hypnotherapist. If you wonder how the afterlife could look alike you should read it...even if you don't believe in this...makes you wonder:

I can speak about recognition signs from personal experience, since I was blessed by three specific clues to help me find my wife. Thumbing through Look magazine as a teenager, I once saw a Christmas advertisement for Hamilton watches modeled by a
beautiful dark-haired woman dressed in white. The caption in the ad said, "To Peggy," because she was holding a wristwatch as a gift from an imaginary husband. An odd sensation came over me, and I never forgot the name or face.

On my twenty-first birthday I received a watch of the same make from a favorite aunt. A few years later, while attending a graduate school in Phoenix, I was washing a load of white laundry one Saturday. Suddenly, the first trigger was activated in my
mind with the message, "It's time to meet the woman in white." I tried to shake it off, but the face in the ad pushed all other thoughts away. I stopped, looked at my Hamilton watch and heard the command, "Go now." I thought about who wears
white. Acting as if I was obsessed, I went to the largest hospital in the city and asked at the desk for a nurse matching the name and description.

I was told there was such a person who was coming off her shift. When I saw her, I was stunned by the resemblance to the picture in my mind. Our meeting was awkward and embarrassing, but later we sat in the lobby and talked non-stop for
four hours as old friends who hadn't seen each other for a while-which, of course, was true. I waited until after we were married to tell my wife about the reason I came to her hospital and the clues given to me to find her. I didn't want her to think
I was crazy. It was then I learned that on the day of our first meeting she had told her astonished friends, "I just met the man I'm going to marry.


Just something to consider about ;p. Remember that this is your story. You are in control. If you don't like something about your life then change it. At the end we are the only one responsible for the ultimate outcome of our lives. We all have a purpose. People since ancient times have figure it out although most of the time they use metaphors and most people think is gibberish but once you get it, you truly understand what they were talking about and why love is the answer..could elaborate if you want.
Wow. This actually made my eyes water. I recently stumbled around a conclusion similar to yours, but the way you described it, coupled with an actual experience, gives me new insight. I could give you a hug right now. And that's not a normal thing for me.
 
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The way you put it makes it sound a lot better. What bothers me about it is the fact that, the way I am, and the way I feel about things (the way my brain fuctions), can't just be a random occurance. Or at least I don't want it to be. I was always the square peg in a round world and believing that I don't have a set path in life makes me feel like I'm some sort of genetic fuck up. It makes me feel like who I am is wrong.
I always believed that everyone has a set purpose in life, and it is up to us to find it. I like to think that everyone has some sort of talent or nich. And they must use that to benefit society, like an ecosytem. Everyone has there part to do. The system just seems too perfect for there not to be at least some sort of set path for everyone to follow. But like I said, I'm not so sure anymore.
As someone else who feels like a square peg in a round world, I've been contemplating why square pegs exist at all.

One thought that keeps coming back to me is that square pegs hold a special purpose in this round world. There must be a reason why there are so many fewer square pegs. I like to think it's because we only need so many potential revolutionaries. :)

Assuming they can deal with the oppression of being "different than the rest", both from others and ourselves, square pegs represent change simply by being themselves - by their nature of being different, yet accepting themselves as such in spite of (or even because of) it.

And sure, some square pegs might even being to sculpt this planet into a rounded square world. :wink:

My thoughts on the matter are a bit scattered right now, but hopefully this conveys enough of what I'm trying to get across.
 
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