Personality Cafe banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I love my friend dearly. And she knows that I would do anything in the world for her because I've known her almost all our lives together. But here is the issue. I can't read her mind. What I mean by that, it seems that she doesn't communicate when something is bothering her. As if I should already know. Feel like that saying, "Men are from Mars and Woman are from Uranus." opps! I mean Venus. (I meant for the females to laugh with me.) No disrespect intended. I love the ladies in the world, they just don't get me.

What do ISFJ's want in a Friend?
1. I've noticed she doesn't take constructive critizism well. Maybe she doesn't take constructive critizism well from me or does not see it as constructive. Or maybe to her I am attacking her. Should I not do that?

2. How about giving advice on personal issues like raising her kids? These were just suggestions. Was that a no no? Is that basically saying she doesn't know how to raise her kids?


You see, it is obvious I am trying to help, but instead, I am hurting her and I do not wish to do that. Why or what is it that I am doing that shuts her out? I wish she would tell me, but that isn't going to happen. I need your advice or personal experience. I'm starting to understand that INFJ's and ISFJ's are different in many ways and yet so similiar. I love to talk and express. She does too but most of it is inside her loving head.

Once again....

1. What do ISFJ's want in a friendship? And
2. What do they not want in a friendship?


One comment she made was that she felt that I was too needy or clingy. Ahahaha. I disagree and agree. I believe INFJ's need to be needed in order for us to have a reason or purpose to stay.


ISFJ's, I just want to say thanks again for your sound advices. You guys have always been helpful and respectful to me. Thank you.. Teddy, Rowan, Liminality and everyone else.

ps. From your help.... I'm hoping from continous understanding of one another, I hope to be able to understand her and take a look back and say to myself.... "Oh.. okay so that's why and how come." And to be able to laugh again with her.

Sincerely,
Johnny
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
It is propably very different from person to person, or gender. As being a male, my social craves and needs are different from a girls. Speaking from my experience, I have lots of secrets and problems I both want and do not want to tell friends at the same time. I do not like being pushed in to explain a problem to a friend if I don't feel comfortable or simply not ready to speak about it. I may or may not tell such secrets to friends, but I tend to keep them to myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
It is propably very different from person to person, or gender. As being a male, my social craves and needs are different from a girls. Speaking from my experience, I have lots of secrets and problems I both want and do not want to tell friends at the same time. I do not like being pushed in to explain a problem to a friend if I don't feel comfortable or simply not ready to speak about it. I may or may not tell such secrets to friends, but I tend to keep them to myself.
Thank you Equinox. That is something that I've took notice about her. And its something that maybe I need to learn to accept. It is interesting though that most ISFJ's may feel this way. At least maybe now I have somewhat of a better understanding and patience for one another. Once I find out for myself my continously communicating with the other ISFJ, then I can respect their wishes of how they interact. You were saying before, likes and dislikes. But in order to do that, continual communication to any type of relationship is the key to opening doors. Thanks again for your feedback Equinox. Johnny.

I hope to hear more from ISFJ's
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,170 Posts
My expectations from my friends are completely irrational. Okay, I really don't know how to explain this... Excuse the rambling.

I never open up to my friends, ever. The closest I ever come is blurting out incoherent thoughts while slightly tipsy... There is nothing I want more than to be able to open up and talk about what's on my mind. Why don't I?

Simple answer I guess, I don't want to be a burden. I won't tell someone something if I don't think they will really care, because what's the point? Even if they would care.. I don't know, I guess I just don't want to burden them with my crap. I suppose it's just a habit really, I don't know HOW to open up. I wouldn't know where to start or even how to bring it up.

That being said, I really need them to care when something's wrong. As dumb as it sounds I love to be asked if there's something wrong, even if I'm not going to tell them what and will probably even lie. And here's where the really really irrational part comes in. I do expect them to read my mind. No matter how much I keep my mouth shut and insist that I'm fine, I will be upset if they accept this as an answer. I just want them to show that they care. *smacks self in the head* Never underestimate the power of a random hug or gesture of kindness.

Okay sorry, that was all just rambling. I'm sure your friend isn't as irrational, oversensitive and stupid as I am. So in an attempt to actually answer your questions... (First of all, I agree completely with what Equinox said)

Advice and constructive criticism... If she didn't ask for it, it probably won't be received in the way that you intend it. It may come off as a personal attack, even though of course that's the total opposite of how you meant it. Haha, I was going to suggest you take a look at this thread: http://personalitycafe.com/isfj-forum-nurturers/32410-do-isfjs-rather-want-someone-listen-rather-then-solutions-corrections.html But then I realised it was created by you. :D I don't know, all I can say is think carefully about what you're saying and how it will come across to her. (Not that I'm critisizing you, you sound like a wonderful friend who's doing all the right things.) If you're giving constructive criticism, try to accompany it with some positive feedback as well.

What do we want in a friendship? Hmmm... Well, we share that "need to be needed" (at least in my case... there are other threads on the ISFJ forum exploring this) that you mentioned. As long as you're caring, loyal and considerate that's really all we can ask for, and it's obvious that you are all of those things.

I don't know, if you have any questions or want me to clarify anything I'd love to help... Let me know and maybe I can give you less broad and rambling answers. :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
878 Posts
What do ISFJ's want in a Friend?
1. I've noticed she doesn't take constructive critizism well. Maybe she doesn't take constructive critizism well from me or does not see it as constructive. Or maybe to her I am attacking her. Should I not do that?
For me it all depends on the tone of the criticism, how well I know the person and what the situation is etc etc. I have had people who I love, really good friends, reduce me to tears (after I remove myself form their presence) because they have said things that seem very harsh to me. I know that from their point of view they are only trying to help, but when they hit close to things that really matter to me or that I have thought I was doing well on, then critcism on those point will always cut and no matter how well intentioned can hurt me very deeply. If I'm already feeling vulnerable those things, no matter how constructive, will feel like an attack. If you want to help me grow, for me the best way is to say 'look the way you do things is awesome, but I read about this other way and these are all the advantages...' I need to feel like the way I already do things is good, just that there could be a better way and I need 'proof' that it will bebbetter before I'll accept it too. If it isn't broken, don't fix it and all that ...

2. How about giving advice on personal issues like raising her kids? These were just suggestions. Was that a no no? Is that basically saying she doesn't know how to raise her kids?
This one for me is a definite no-no. Everyone parents differently, and it is a very hard, stressful job so if someone on the outside gives me advice without being asked for it I get very resentful. This is especially so if the person giving me the advice doesn't have kids of their own (I have no idea whether you do or not, but it does make the 'offence' worse). It's different if I ask for help, but if it comes out of the blue then no I don't accept other people interfering and if it happens too often I will start avoiding that person.

As for what I actually want in a friendship, I think probably someone I can talk to, who will support me as much as I support them and who I know will be there through thick and thin. I don't want someone who will give me 'solutions' if I'm just talking something through or venting, and I don't want someone who I can't trust to stick around. I have many people in my social circle but very few I would actually label as friends, even though many of them see me as a friend.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
268 Posts
As for what I actually want in a friendship, I think probably someone I can talk to, who will support me as much as I support them and who I know will be there through thick and thin. I don't want someone who will give me 'solutions' if I'm just talking something through or venting, and I don't want someone who I can't trust to stick around. I have many people in my social circle but very few I would actually label as friends, even though many of them see me as a friend.
First of all thank you sts06, I LOVE your definition of a friend, it just....fits. I am with you 100%.

Johnny,

Besides sts06's wonderful definition of a friend, the main thing I would love from a friend is no judgment (....although I guess 'through thick and thin' covers that....ack!!). And I am wondering if your 'constructive criticism' is coming off as a form of judgment to her? Also (and I do believe this was mentioned, sorry for re-iterating....), such criticism for me can not just be shared (ie out of the blue I am told I could be doing things alot better if.....), I usually need to be asking for it. This way I am ready to receive it, I have psyched myself up, am braced for some truth other than my own!!!! :dry: So if she doesn't ask for your advice, maybe hold off on giving it to her, just listen with an open heart and be grateful she is willing to share. She is obviously very important to you. OH and I think I mentioned this somewhere else, but if she is sharing, you might want to clarify if she is venting or looking for some feedback.....I didn't realise people couldn't read my mind and became fairly upset when my friend didn't respond to me as she thought I was 'just' venting when I was actually looking for some advice lol.

As to offering advice on how to parent, I am with sts06. I don't have kids, but in my heart I feel a parent will ask for outside feedback when they want it. Until then it is better to keep quiet and support her as best you can without providing alternate ways to raise her children, imho.

I think it is so wonderful Johnny you are open to learning and understanding about your lovely Ms.ISFJ, and yourself! It is admirable, and I hope you find some answers here. Once again, this is just my opinion, I am just one of many ISFJ's, and type can only get one so far.

......and I hope I wasn't too harsh.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
What do ISFJ's want in a Friend?
1. I've noticed she doesn't take constructive critizism well. Maybe she doesn't take constructive critizism well from me or does not see it as constructive. Or maybe to her I am attacking her. Should I not do that?

2. How about giving advice on personal issues like raising her kids? These were just suggestions. Was that a no no? Is that basically saying she doesn't know how to raise her kids?
My friend is also an ISFJ, and sometimes I have difficulty figuring out what she's thinking, how she's feeling, etc. Thanks for all of the information, wonderful ISFJs!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
878 Posts
I am wondering if your 'constructive criticism' is coming off as a form of judgment to her? Also (and I do believe this was mentioned, sorry for re-iterating....), such criticism for me can not just be shared (ie out of the blue I am told I could be doing things alot better if.....), I usually need to be asking for it. This way I am ready to receive it, I have psyched myself up, am braced for some truth other than my own!!!!
I agree with this too -- if it comes completely out of leftfield it makes me really anxious that there are a lot of things I'm doing 'wrong' to that person and I get really ill at ease and can be quite hurt. I find that to have it come out of the blue it has to be kind of in a roundabout way. That is, we could be discussing the topic and rather than going 'I think you could be doing blah blah better' it would come across to me better if it was more like 'I've found that x, y, z workd really well for me because ....' that doesn't make it about where I am 'failing' but where you are succeeding and while I may not immediately accept it I will generally go away and think about it, and decide whether it would work for me. It may feel namby pampy to someone who is very upfront and direct but it really is the only way I'm going to accept this sort of criticism.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jamescarrolls

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I agree with this too -- if it comes completely out of leftfield it makes me really anxious that there are a lot of things I'm doing 'wrong' to that person and I get really ill at ease and can be quite hurt. I find that to have it come out of the blue it has to be kind of in a roundabout way. That is, we could be discussing the topic and rather than going 'I think you could be doing blah blah better' it would come across to me better if it was more like 'I've found that x, y, z workd really well for me because ....' that doesn't make it about where I am 'failing' but where you are succeeding and while I may not immediately accept it I will generally go away and think about it, and decide whether it would work for me. It may feel namby pampy to someone who is very upfront and direct but it really is the only way I'm going to accept this sort of criticism.
Thanks.....!!!! Okay Teddy, Miss Liminality, your turn. Come on! I can take it!!! Ahahahahaha!!!! :blushed:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,721 Posts
I love my friend dearly. And she knows that I would do anything in the world for her because I've known her almost all our lives together. But here is the issue. I can't read her mind. What I mean by that, it seems that she doesn't communicate when something is bothering her. As if I should already know. Feel like that saying, "Men are from Mars and Woman are from Uranus." opps! I mean Venus. (I meant for the females to laugh with me.) No disrespect intended. I love the ladies in the world, they just don't get me.

What do ISFJ's want in a Friend?
1. I've noticed she doesn't take constructive critizism well. Maybe she doesn't take constructive critizism well from me or does not see it as constructive. Or maybe to her I am attacking her. Should I not do that?

2. How about giving advice on personal issues like raising her kids? These were just suggestions. Was that a no no? Is that basically saying she doesn't know how to raise her kids?


You see, it is obvious I am trying to help, but instead, I am hurting her and I do not wish to do that. Why or what is it that I am doing that shuts her out? I wish she would tell me, but that isn't going to happen. I need your advice or personal experience. I'm starting to understand that INFJ's and ISFJ's are different in many ways and yet so similiar. I love to talk and express. She does too but most of it is inside her loving head.

Once again....

1. What do ISFJ's want in a friendship? And
2. What do they not want in a friendship?


One comment she made was that she felt that I was too needy or clingy. Ahahaha. I disagree and agree. I believe INFJ's need to be needed in order for us to have a reason or purpose to stay.


It's taken me a while to post in this thread because a lot of my thoughts have either already been said by someone here, or I've said them in some other thread. So I'm trying to think of a way to add something new.


For me, I think the whole thing boils down to trust. I really have to trust someone deeply before I tell them about or ask for their advice about my problems.

And the way I trust somebody is by knowing that they 100% accept and appreciate me for who I am.

So the problem is that if I don't have that bond with someone and they try giving me advice, then I'm going to shut them out. I take their advice as a sign of disapproval and as them seeing me as being wrong or not good enough. So it makes me ignore their advice and not be open with my problems to that person.


But, when I know that someone totally accepts me for who I am and is not trying to change me, then I'll start telling the person things about me, about my problems, and if I feel the need, I'll usually ask them for advice. That's a sign that I trust them and know that whatever they say will only be a way of helping me.


I've said this before in some other thread, but I know that for me, I'd rather keep on doing what I've known, even if it's not totally perfect, rather than risk what I've known for the potential to make it better. So an outsider might see a problem in my life and think that it needs fixing, whereas I would rather keep it the same. While I understand their concern, I take it as a judgment when they try to fix it. If it ever gets to the point where it's so bad that I have a problem with it, then I'll feel like it's time to change it, and then I'll probably start asking for advice.




The other thing that is big is giving genuine praise and affirmation. That helps so much in showing acceptance and building trust. If I'm getting that from someone, it reaffirms in my mind that they value me and love me, and it makes me more likely to trust them. It also makes me more receptive to their criticism, even if I don't ask for it.


So basically...if you're noticing friction with her, I think you should focus on the positives, focus on building trust, and don't try to offer criticism, advice, or show any sign of wanting to change her. Give it some time, and see if over time she becomes more trusting and open towards you. If you start seeing those positive differences, then that's a good sign. Then, she might start telling you more about what's bothering her, and may even eventually start asking you what you think or what she should do. Then, you can finally start giving all of the advice that you're so dying to give. :wink:



Like always, this is only based on my own personal experiences, and I can't speak for all ISFJ's. But these things are definitely true for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
For me, I think the whole thing boils down to trust. I really have to trust someone deeply before I tell them about or ask for their advice about my problems.

And the way I trust somebody is by knowing that they 100% accept and appreciate me for who I am.
This is so true!!

I just want somebody who I know accepts me without conditions. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: jamescarrolls

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Teddy!!!!

It's taken me a while to post in this thread because a lot of my thoughts have either already been said by someone here, or I've said them in some other thread. So I'm trying to think of a way to add something new.


For me, I think the whole thing boils down to trust. I really have to trust someone deeply before I tell them about or ask for their advice about my problems.

And the way I trust somebody is by knowing that they 100% accept and appreciate me for who I am.

So the problem is that if I don't have that bond with someone and they try giving me advice, then I'm going to shut them out. I take their advice as a sign of disapproval and as them seeing me as being wrong or not good enough. So it makes me ignore their advice and not be open with my problems to that person.


But, when I know that someone totally accepts me for who I am and is not trying to change me, then I'll start telling the person things about me, about my problems, and if I feel the need, I'll usually ask them for advice. That's a sign that I trust them and know that whatever they say will only be a way of helping me.


I've said this before in some other thread, but I know that for me, I'd rather keep on doing what I've known, even if it's not totally perfect, rather than risk what I've known for the potential to make it better. So an outsider might see a problem in my life and think that it needs fixing, whereas I would rather keep it the same. While I understand their concern, I take it as a judgment when they try to fix it. If it ever gets to the point where it's so bad that I have a problem with it, then I'll feel like it's time to change it, and then I'll probably start asking for advice.




The other thing that is big is giving genuine praise and affirmation. That helps so much in showing acceptance and building trust. If I'm getting that from someone, it reaffirms in my mind that they value me and love me, and it makes me more likely to trust them. It also makes me more receptive to their criticism, even if I don't ask for it.


So basically...if you're noticing friction with her, I think you should focus on the positives, focus on building trust, and don't try to offer criticism, advice, or show any sign of wanting to change her. Give it some time, and see if over time she becomes more trusting and open towards you. If you start seeing those positive differences, then that's a good sign. Then, she might start telling you more about what's bothering her, and may even eventually start asking you what you think or what she should do. Then, you can finally start giving all of the advice that you're so dying to give. :wink:



Like always, this is only based on my own personal experiences, and I can't speak for all ISFJ's. But these things are definitely true for me.
Teddy....
I'll accept you for who you are but I am not going to take your crap if you are not willing to accept my behavior. Do you see what I mean? Just because I say something that you do not wish to hear, you need to let me know this. It is so unfair when you expect me to read your mind as if I should already know.
If I some way do something to hurt you, how reasonable it must me to just shut me out, just because you didn't hear what you wanted to hear. Sorry Teddy, I am just venting at you. Laugh with me one more time Teddy.:crazy:

Teddy, sure I'll accept you but I am not going to take this anymore!!! It is a give and take relationship. You have to be more open to express yourself. How am I suppose to know that I had somehow stepped over you boundaries if you do not tell me so? Teddy, I wish you would take chances on being vunerable and know that your friend loves you and accepts you for who you are and doesn't mean to hurt you.

How easy it must be to just let them go just because I did not understand you. Make sense Teddy?
Have you been known to do this? Isn't that so unfair? I can accept you but you can't seem to accept me?

Thanks again Teddy for your feedback. I'm pretending that you are the other person. So I am using you as a punching bag.:crazy: Much appreciated!!!! Thankful to have someone like you!!!!

ps. You do not have to respond to this. I know I am driving you nuts. Can you accept me for who I am?:crazy:


Sincerely,
Johnny
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,966 Posts
Hard question to answer...I'm not sure why.

Things that are good for me: Someone who cares and shows they care, someone honest and or gentle enough for me not to be scared of getting angry, or being extreamly frank around them, someone who doesn't hold a grudge, someone who doesn't have issues with anger, someone who understands a need for space and boundaries, but known how to push me when I'm withdrawing too much; who can stop me from...regressing into myself, someone who isn't too high strung or high maintenance. Although a certain degree of intensity and lack of fear of an argument, possibly even dissagreability can be a good way to get me to atleast consciously feel degrees of strong feeling for a person.Someone easy to talk to, who gets my humour, when I'm feeling awkward but it doesn't bother, someone who I can relax around. Someone I feel I can trust.

Care often comes with assurance on my part.

Constructive criticism is probably good in the sense that we do need to get used to it, to question our own reactions and hurts and not take it so badly. Also so we can come away with a different perspective. I think teddy is right in saying - or atleast I relate to being more receptive to ciriticism if whoever has given me a degree of praise and or affirmation; if I've felt I've been nurtured by the person at some point, in some way. It can just be their general manner of clear thinking and unpushy logic and solution ponderingness. Different from being sucked up to.

Expectations though...I expect..well I'm not sure...I guess I'm a little pessimistic and paranoied for interactions and relationships of any kind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
1. I've noticed she doesn't take constructive critizism well. Maybe she doesn't take constructive critizism well from me or does not see it as constructive. Or maybe to her I am attacking her. Should I not do that?
2. How about giving advice on personal issues like raising her kids? These were just suggestions. Was that a no no? Is that basically saying she doesn't know how to raise her kids?
Ill answer both of these questions at the same time. Dont give constructive criticism to her or give her advice unless she ask for it. ISFJ's hate criticism and when we hate when we feel like some one is judging us. As for giving her parenting advice that would be a BIG no no if its not asked for. Parents get upset when some one critiques there parenting skills especially coming from an bachelor with no kids. I remember making a comment in front of my sister inlaw about how kids should not watch tv all day long. The comment wasnt directed at her at all but she immediately took offense and told me to mind my own effin biusness since I dont have kids. I learned to keep my comments to myself about parenting no matter how right I think I am because I know parents dont like being told how to raise there kids.

1. What do ISFJ's want in a friendship?
Unconditional love and support. I look for someone who likes me for me. Personal space is another thing I look for.
2. What do they not want in a friendship?
Judgement and hostility. People who are two faced and stab you in the back. Somebody who is bouncing off the walls to the point i cant keep up with them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
1. I've noticed she doesn't take constructive critizism well. Maybe she doesn't take constructive critizism well from me or does not see it as constructive. Or maybe to her I am attacking her. Should I not do that?
2. How about giving advice on personal issues like raising her kids? These were just suggestions. Was that a no no? Is that basically saying she doesn't know how to raise her kids?
Ill answer both of these questions at the same time. Dont give constructive criticism to her or give her advice unless she ask for it. ISFJ's hate criticism and when we hate when we feel like some one is judging us. As for giving her parenting advice that would be a BIG no no if its not asked for. Parents get upset when some one critiques there parenting skills especially coming from an bachelor with no kids. I remember making a comment in front of my sister inlaw about how kids should not watch tv all day long. The comment wasnt directed at her at all but she immediately took offense and told me to mind my own effin biusness since I dont have kids. I learned to keep my comments to myself about parenting no matter how right I think I am because I know parents dont like being told how to raise there kids.

1. What do ISFJ's want in a friendship?
Unconditional love and support. I look for someone who likes me for me. Personal space is another thing I look for.
2. What do they not want in a friendship?
Judgement and hostility. People who are two faced and stab you in the back. Somebody who is bouncing off the walls to the point i cant keep up with them.

Thank you very much Marvintech....

I'm noticing the similiarities and this helps me how to approach individuals until we realize that we love and care for one another unconditionally.


Sincerely,
Johnny
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top