[kateykinz]

I've been on this forum a long time trying to figure out the answer to that question. I'm fed up of all the self-absorbed introspection, so I'm thowing the question out there to an objective audience.

I first tested as ENFJ, over 5 years ago. I was a lot more outgoing at the time and the description seemed to fit. I didn't look into it any further. When I randomly took a test last year I tested INFJ, and felt so "understood" when I read the description that I immediately became obssessed with personality theory. I didn't think I was very "J" though, so after spending a great deal of time on the INFJ or INFP? website I eventually settled on INFP and joined this forum. Shortly afterwards I didn't feel I really fitted with the INFP tribe - it seemed to me I was too upbeat and secure and not quite dreamy and idealistic enough. I changed my status to ENFP and for a while thought I fitted in there, but I am a lot more subdued than most ENFPs and I don't seem to jump around so much from thing to thing. Although I have a hard time choosing which way to go and get frustrated by limitations, in reality I get interested in one or two things and go deeply into them, rather than being interested in everything all at once.

So at that point I started looking more into the cognitive functions and I thought maybe I had my extraverted and introverted intuition mixed up. Once I understood the functions properly, I was sure that I used introverted intuition more than extraverted intuition, and I decided I must be INFJ but that because of my balanced introversion/extraversion I can come across as quite ENFP when I go through my periods of extraversion. The last few months I've been really introverted and unsociable, which leads to more and more introspection and me feeling more serious than light-hearted. But I don't take life as seriously as some INFJ's on the forum seem to, and so I get to wondering...do I really fit in there either?

I think I am a pretty balanced NF who flips from one type to another depending on whether I am in an introverted or extraverted phase and how confident I feel about myself at any given time. But apparently that isn't possible and I am one type and one type only. So can you help me figure it out?

Here are my most recent cognitive function scores:

extraverted Sensing (Se) ******************* (19.8)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) ******************* (19.5)
limited use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ***************************************** (41.3)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ************************************* (37.2)
excellent use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ******************** (20.7)
limited use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ******************** (20.9)
limited use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ****************************************** (42)
excellent use
introverted Feeling (Fi) *************************************** (39.2)
excellent use

I think that the major struggle for me in my life is my Fi and Fe being equally strong and pulling me one way, then the other. I'm fiercely individualistic, yet I find myself adapting myself to get along in society. I think people should be able to live how they want, yet I am full of scorn for people who don't show any social manners. I could forgive anyone anything as I think that everyone lives through their own unique perceptions and what I or society think is morally wrong is not necessarily wrong, but then I expect people to play fair with each other's feelings and get on the warpath if they don't. So, essentially my Fe and Fi are in constant conflict, and I use the different methods afforded to me through Ne and Ni to try to make some sense of that and find a balance.

Despite the cognitive function scores, I feel that my Si is pretty strong, but I ignore it as a way of determining my actions, and I think I use Ti a lot, but it always seems to get me into trouble, so I must use it incorrectly.

The enneagram is so much easier for me to find myself in - I'm a 9w8, if that helps any.

 

[Humaning]

One thing that helped me pin point my type after many months of self doubt, research and confirm bias was going through each strong function and deciding, which were the functions that defined me and which ones I merely used. For example, my Ne and Ti functions are strong, but it does not provide the feeling of mental integrity that Fi, Se or Ni provide. Functions are just tools really and just because you can use a sword does not mean you are a swordsman... Being a swordsman comes with a sense of identy with the sword. I dont know if I am explaining my phylosophy in the best way. What I mean really, is do not become confused with the "strength" of your functions, maybe some of your key identy functions are being neglected because you are persuing other functions outside of the ego, which is nothing wrong as long as you have sense of who you are.
I recommend meditation. Well, it helped m,e maybe you can benefit from it as well.

 

[kateykinz]

Thanks - you explained your philosophy just fine :laughing:

Going by your theory, I'd have to say that Fi trumps Fe for me. Though I use both equally, when I'm using Fi my self-esteem is high, whereas when I use Fe it often gets me into situations that I end up resenting, then I will feel disappointed with myself. I love to do things to make other people happy, and create harmony among differing social groups, but I don't want to be relied upon to provide that. As soon as expectations are formed I tend to rebel. So yeah, what I give to my fellow mankind I want to give freely, according to my own innate need to serve people, not feel forced into giving it by societal expectations.

You may be right in that I neglect parts of myself to go beyond my ego. I'm hyper aware that personality is a complicated social construct and as such I think it is a good thing to be inconsistent. My thought process and way of life has changed so much throughout the years, yet to the people who have stuck with me throughout, I'm still recognisably "me" and I think that is based on a core of Fi.

 

[Humaning]

It is good to hear that you could gain greater understanding of your sel identity :happy:
Fi has been my rock throught my life experience as well, even when all other functions failed to provide purpose and integrity.

 

[vel]

Going by your theory, I'd have to say that Fi trumps Fe for me. Though I use both equally, when I'm using Fi my self-esteem is high, whereas when I use Fe it often gets me into situations that I end up resenting, then I will feel disappointed with myself. I love to do things to make other people happy, and create harmony among differing social groups, but I don't want to be relied upon to provide that. As soon as expectations are formed I tend to rebel.

Actually what you are describing is Ti not Fi. All Fe-bearers use the flip side of the coin - Ti, introverted thinking - when trying to think logically about situations. This is the function that allows us to feel self-confident and pick out of environment what is important to us as individuals, pick out personally favorable situations. Fe and Ti are in constant conflict - because Ti is selfishly calculating and Fe wants to be nice and friendly with everybody. In some situations both cannot be satisfied. So when you say " I love to do things to make other people happy, and create harmony among differing social groups, but I don't want to be relied upon to provide that." to me that definitely sounds like Fe-Ti thinking. Fe wants outside group harmony but Ti says "no you personally will not provide that". Ti basically makes sure we don't spread ourselves thin, and though Fe wants us to act in ways that are supportive of others, Ti ensures that we also make choices that make us competitive in this world.

Why you think Ti is Fi is because all functions are wired into pleasure-pain system in our brain so we actually just "feel" their functioning. The decisions these function make are not conscious but we simply feel good if we did something right according to what our functions value. This is why it is easy to confuse workings of a logical cognitive function with workings of a feeling one, especially if this function is not high up on your cognitive ladder.

 

[kateykinz]

Actually what you are describing is Ti not Fi. All Fe-bearers use the flip side of the coin - Ti, introverted thinking - when trying to think logically about situations. This is the function that allows us to feel self-confident and pick out of environment what is important to us as individuals, pick out personally favorable situations. Fe and Ti are in constant conflict - because Ti is selfishly calculating and Fe wants to be nice and friendly with everybody. In some situations both cannot be satisfied. So when you say " I love to do things to make other people happy, and create harmony among differing social groups, but I don't want to be relied upon to provide that." to me that definitely sounds like Fe-Ti thinking. Fe wants outside group harmony but Ti says "no you personally will not provide that". Ti basically makes sure we don't spread ourselves thin, and though Fe wants us to act in ways that are supportive of others, Ti ensures that we also make choices that make us competitive in this world.

Why you think Ti is Fi is because all functions are wired into pleasure-pain system in our brain so we actually just "feel" their functioning. The decisions these function make are not conscious but we simply feel good if we did something right according to what our functions value. This is why it is easy to confuse workings of a logical cognitive function with workings of a feeling one, especially if this function is not high up on your cognitive ladder.

Hmm...so if I'm mixing up Fi and Ti, it is probable that I am INFJ?

I find that I can switch my F off in order to think rationally much more naturally than can my ISFJ husband, who is so emotionally sensitive. For instance we were watching the last series of Lost and ***spoiler*** when Sun was trapped in the sub underwater and Jin decided that he wasn't going to leave her and would instead die with her, my husband was crying and said to me "I could never leave you, I'd do exactly the same thing" and I was crying thinking how touched I would be but mainly how angry I'd be if that was the case and he unnecessarily left our child to be an orphan. It seemed senseless to sacrifice his life. But maybe that is just my N versus his S - I see the long-term, bigger picture ramifications of the action that he would just decide upon in the here and now - he wouldn't be able to live with himself abandoning me, what would people think of him?

 

[vel]

Hmm...so if I'm mixing up Fi and Ti, it is probable that I am INFJ?

I find that I can switch my F off in order to think rationally much more naturally than can my ISFJ husband, who is so emotionally sensitive. For instance we were watching the last series of Lost and ***spoiler*** when Sun was trapped in the sub underwater and Jin decided that he wasn't going to leave her and would instead die with her, my husband was crying and said to me "I could never leave you, I'd do exactly the same thing" and I was crying thinking how touched I would be but mainly how angry I'd be if that was the case and he unnecessarily left our child to be an orphan. It seemed senseless to sacrifice his life. But maybe that is just my N versus his S - I see the long-term, bigger picture ramifications of the action that he would just decide upon in the here and now - he wouldn't be able to live with himself abandoning me, what would people think of him?

In comparison to my ISFJ mother I too find that I can more easily switch off my feelings. This is of course one data point - I do not know any other ISFJs close up and personal. With respect to her I am much less emotionally 'flighty'. She is generally more talkative than me - I usually think over what I want to say several times before I say them and try to view things from different perspectives before expressing my opinion. She cannot stand some of the action movies my dad watches (he is a typical T) - where as I can 'turn off' my Fe and enjoy them with him. She is more expressive of her emotional judgements than I am. I form judgements but am likely to tone them down if I can understand another person's point of view and it seems acceptable.

Sensors live in the present. As such they will react more strongly to the present events. So what your husband is doing is dealing with the concrete event that is happening in present, while you are busy extrapolating connections if this event to other events and reacting based on that. Perhaps why sensor reactions seem to be stronger than ours.