Personality Cafe banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,421 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I was watching Wedding Crashers today...again. It's a funny movie. The movie got me thinking.

Spoilers:
 
Vince Vaughn wants to score with Isla Fisher (can't blame him, lol) and makes up a bunch of lies to win her over. After sex, Isla also lies about having being a virgin.

Do two wrongs make a right, both sides lying? Does everybody lie to "close the deal"? Stereotypically, that would mean men lying to get the girl into bed, women lying to get married. But it could really be lies about anything.

I don't think anybody is 100% truthful. Even in the basic way that people try to wear their best clothes and show themselves to be fun and charming, they are pretending to be a different type of person. That's why often times after people marry, both men and women let themselves go. They're no longer in the market, no longer need to be competitive. Of course then people divorce or break up and once again have to make themselves marketable.

Which is why of course I like to meet someone at work or at school or in a place that I know they're mostly themselves as they usually are, not pretending or trying hard to project a certain image to come across as "marketable".

But I've come across threads on this forum and elsewhere where people believe that it's okay to hide things, even big things, and introduce them later only. These could be any issues. Examples:

-Being gay, bi, trans.
-Poverty, bankruptcy, etc.
-Being or not being a virgin.
-Already dating another person.
-Previous marriages.
-Children from previous relations.
-Personal mental or physical illness (now or in the past).
-Family illness or troubles (e.g. with the law).
-Religion, politics, customs, etc.

The logic presented is often quite simple. It's like a business transaction. If you're about to sell your car, you not gonna tell people about the leaky gas tank first. If you're legally required to disclose that info, you do that at the end, after you've made sure the person's fallen in love with the tinted windows and custom paint and loves the car.

But this mindset scares me. For me trust is big. But I also know I have things I'm not particularly proud of, and I don't think if I meet a beautiful girl, I would want to disclose them on the first couple of dates. For instance I'm not gonna start by mentioning I have PTSD. My main goal would be for her to want to be with me. I want to present my best self. But where to draw the line? And when to reveal more facts and truth?

I've heard the opposite too of course, like one guy lied to a girl about him being poor but he was a millionaire. Since he was having trouble trusting women now (after two bad breakups where it became clear the women were in it only for the money), he wanted to make sure his new girlfriend loved him for him and not the money. I remember a girl responding to that thread saying something like, "I'm very beautiful but I can't do that, unless I dress like traditional Muslim women and only reveal myself after I'm sure the person loves me for my personality."

Anyhow, I think I've made a thread about this issue before but again it's got me thinking, so what do you guys believe? How have you yourself behaved and how have you felt when others lied to or did not reveal the whole truth till long after?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,126 Posts
If they lied about anything you listed, it would be over, end of. But that would be more down to the fact that they had lied, not what they lied about. As then the trust would be affected, and trust is important to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
720 Posts
I was in a relationship like that and it was complete hell . Lied to me just to get her attention and just was not worth it anymore . I sadly had to break up with him.

If it ever happens again , I swear I am not dating ever again XD
 
  • Like
Reactions: conscius

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,410 Posts
Hmm, all of those I am up-front about on the first date. I prefer to know most of those examples beforehand (i.e. if they have children or are divorced, religion they adhere to, etc.) because that affects my decision to date them. However, there are some personal things that are not absolutely necessary for me to know in the very first stages of dating, such as family illnesses or dating other people. Knowing me, I'm sure we will have covered all this anyway, but if we get to the point where we get exclusive and I've found out they've outright lied about anything-- it would be over. Even little white lies are a huge red flag to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,207 Posts
So, i was sexually molested as a child and i know its something that the girl should know, but i dont know when i should tell her? Any advice? Before we start dating and i fear she wont want my issues..which is fair but damn, i mean being punished for being raped as a kid is harsh. But after and i feel like ive tricked her. So, when should she be made aware, would you think?

when someone asks me how my first time was, or my best and worse sexual experience, they dont realize theyve hit an old nerve.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,804 Posts
So, i was sexually molested as a child and i know its something that the girl should know, but i dont know when i should tell her? Any advice? Before we start dating and i fear she wont want my issues..which is fair but damn, i mean being punished for being raped as a kid is harsh. But after and i feel like ive tricked her. So, when should she be made aware, would you think?
You should mention it but maybe don't do it right away. Get to know her first , so that you can trust each other.

I was molested as a kid too , I decided to never mention it to someone I know in real life , but that's just me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,324 Posts
So, i was sexually molested as a child and i know its something that the girl should know, but i dont know when i should tell her? Any advice? Before we start dating and i fear she wont want my issues..which is fair but damn, i mean being punished for being raped as a kid is harsh. But after and i feel like ive tricked her. So, when should she be made aware, would you think?

when someone asks me how my first time was, or my best and worse sexual experience, they dont realize theyve hit an old nerve.
You are courageous my friend, it happened to you, it doesn't define you, the right time is the right time, only you know when that is. You are not tricking anybody, that is a extremely private sensitive issue and you get to decide when and with whom you discuss the matter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,207 Posts
You should mention it but maybe don't do it right away. get to know her first , so that you can trust each other.

I was molested as a kid too , I decided to never mention it to someone I know in real life , but that's just me.
Hmm..ive never met anyone else. If it were me, i guess id need to know after dating, but closer to it than marriage. It wouldnt really change me in the relationship..but thats just because id understand myself. Guessing many people, men and women, dont really want the problems that come with it.

Good luck :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
748 Posts
 
Vince Vaughn wants to score with Isla Fisher (can't blame him, lol) and makes up a bunch of lies to win her over. After sex, Isla also lies about having being a virgin.
Exactly the same thing happened to me. He lied to me about being a virgin and even made up a butch of sexual and dating stories with "previous gfs". Didn't seem to care how hurt I was neither.

I was crying because of all the explicit stories and feeling too jealous imagining him with other girls. He made up stories and told me a new one every week for 6 months. 6 months later he told me he was a virgin.
:dry:
1 more year passed. I never mentioned it again, but it is still haunting me.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,255 Posts
The reality is people are prejudiced. Even the ones who think they aren't, are. Your choices are this, you can always tell the truth and become that person all the prejudiced liars reject as a result. Or you can play the game and lie your arse off hoping that you'll never have to do the big reveal. If you do then hope like hell that somehow they will be emotionally attached to you and not willing to let go.

This is basically the gambit one of my exes played with me. He waited until we were engaged to tell me that he had a drug conviction. Now, it wasn't big. It was a misdemeanor possession offence. But the fact he waited for 3yrs to tell me about it, and only revealed it because he knew he'd have to write it on an official document that I would see told me something. He had no intention of ever revealing this to me if he could get away with it. Not only that but it also revealed that he had made a conscious lie to me years earlier when I questioned his occassional drug use and the answer was, no of course I don't use drugs.

I didn't like that character trait in him and promptly dumped him. Had he come out with this in some casual conversation sometime within the first few months it would not have been a problem at all. My problem wasn't with his conviction, it was with his desire to completely be false with me until forced to do otherwise. The natural conclusion to that scenario is to wonder what else he is lying about and where and when I would also be treated to similar reveals. No way did I want to be married to someone who could at any moment when convenient or otherwise spring more shit on me. Goodbye.

People lie yes. Through acts of telling a non-truth or concealing something which could be important to the other person. I think if you intend to be in a relationship with someone then yes you must expect them to conceal certain aspects of themselves in the short term. The determinant really has to be when they know you better, and understand what's important to you and what isn't, do they then come clean about things or continue to conceal it, knowing that it may be a deal breaker for you. Do they have the strength of character to risk that rejection in order to make the relationship stronger or will they continue to coast by in duplicity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
So, i was sexually molested as a child and i know its something that the girl should know, but i dont know when i should tell her? Any advice? Before we start dating and i fear she wont want my issues..which is fair but damn, i mean being punished for being raped as a kid is harsh. But after and i feel like ive tricked her. So, when should she be made aware, would you think?

when someone asks me how my first time was, or my best and worse sexual experience, they dont realize theyve hit an old nerve
Am i missing something here? If she's not an asshole, why would this make a difference? It wasn't your fault and you shouldn't be punished for this. I say that if she changes her mind because she doesn't want to "deal with" your emotional baggage she's not worth your time. Open up to her when you feel ready.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,208 Posts
I'd say lies that the other person wondered or even knew that matters to me but still chose to lie for the sake of winning me over.

Sometimes people have very different values and don't see the same things as big deals, but when someone lies about something they know would matter to the other person, that is selfish and in my case I'd see it as a big red flag.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
596 Posts
I couldn't say. I would need to factor in the current status of the relationship to with the lie itself to make a determination.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
748 Posts
I agree he shouldn't worry too much about it, and that most people are probably fine with it, but it doesn't make anyone an asshole to not want to deal with others' baggage. She is free to reconsider her options, as is he.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,312 Posts
I don't like any lies when it comes to endeavors of romantic commitment. Once someone's been dishonest, I'm forever doubtful of their honesty. If it continues, I feel I can't rely upon trusting them, even in the things I think I've trusted in believing that they've shared. I've broken up with at least one woman with the reason: "I can't trust you." And if white lies comes to mind, if the lie is tiny to hide a positive surprise like a present, that's something different. I'm very raw and uncensored about my life with someone I consider dating material. If you want to lie, there's lots of others to date. That's just my policy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cricket

·
Registered
ENFP, 7w6
Joined
·
2,130 Posts
I greatly value authenticity. Catching the guy in any lie will likely break the deal. I do not expect the first date or so to be an exhaustive grill session, but, if a topic comes up, I'd prefer any answers be honest. Opting not to answer is preferable to lying, IMO.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,159 Posts
From what I understand, people lie constantly. So often, in fact, that they don't think they are and a lot is done in the name of social nicety or convention. As an aspie, I never understood the function of social niceties and I've been told to be quiet because I tell the truth too often. I lack tact and am extremely blunt.

"Hi. How are you?"
"Oh, I'm fine."

"Oh, I love your hair."
"Did you see her hair? She looks like a poodle."

"Does this dress make me look fat?"
"No, honey, you look great"

People aren't fine, it's just a ridiculous preprogrammed response to someone's preprogrammed question. These things are done in the name of maintaining the peace or not hurting someone's feelings. Why are these any different from those listed above? A lie is a lie, is it not? Isn't it hypocritical to pander to some people's feelings more than others? Let's try again, shall we?

"Hi. How are you?"
"I'm terrible. My mother has cancer and I don't know what to do about it."
"Oh, how sad. I don't want to talk about it. I'm leaving, now."

"Your hair makes you look like a poodle; don't do that again."
"Well, I never. That was incredibly rude of you."

"Does this dress make me look fat?"
"Of course it does. If you had to ask me, you already knew it made you look fat but you wanted me to feed your delusion of looking good in that dress."

To me, it seems people can't handle the truth. Many people are much happier living the lie. The average person seems to be saving their skin by not divulging various details because they have an inkling that it will cause a backlash of some sort. If all these questions are that important to someone, why are they not discussed before the first outing for that matter? Please, fill in this questionnaire and I'll see if you're worthy of my time. The chances are, the person probably doesn't meet the standard. Everyone is hiding something.

I've had some people refuse to talk to me after informing them that I'm an aspie, like it's infectious or something, or started treating me like a child. They had no problem with me before; it was only their perception that changed. As @InSolitude stated, people are prejudiced.

I think the vast majority of people are delusional. They think so many things that define their worldview and when one of those things is challenged, whomever was the cause gets booted or berated. My family disowned me as a result of who I was and I had been lying to myself and to them for pretty much my entire life before then. They would rather have had me live the lie and be miserable and suicidal than be myself. I couldn't take it anymore. Whose side do you take? Your own or that of the other person's? I guess it would depend on your priorities.

I really don't see why people are so scared of the truth. They say they want it but they really don't. It's like when someone asks for your opinion, they usually don't actually want your opinion. They want your agreement.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top