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What is ENTP?
  • Is it the under-qualified over-paid chairman in the leased sports car who spends all day handing out snide remarks in the hallway and who texts on his phone at monday meetings?
  • Is it the uneducated CEO with the big goofy smile who listens to every word that the incompetent network administrator with the big mouth and inflated ego says?
  • Is it the incompetent network administrator with the big mouth and inflated ego?
  • Is it the programmer / consultant who slaps an entire program together in a day using unintelligible garbage spaghetti code and says "Now, you fix it."?
  • Is it the consultant whose entire life revolves around Manchester United?
  • Is it none of the above?
Note that these are all questions, and that none of them are intended to be rhetorical. If it's none of the above, then I don't know what an ENTP might be.
 

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I think I would care about your feelings if they weren't garbage.
Exactly how are feelings 'garbage'?

Perhaps you mean to say, you do have the capacity to care about another's feelings, unless you don't, and in this case care about my feelings like you care about garbage, as to express contempt or disdain on a personal level rather than emotional? -ish?

Or, the other way round, that you have the capacity to be a disdainful asshole (as in 'care about the other's feeling like you care about garbage'), unless you care about their feelings?

It just depends which attitude is more prevalent/pervasive or exceptional (or situational). And whether this is someone's subjective observation and characterization of individual persons, or extrapolated and exaggerated to a stereotype caricature of an mbti type.

And either way, because of 'garbage feelings' - to answer my question - yes you expect me to be butthurt?

'kay. Whatever makes you feel better.

Would it bother you though, if it doesn't bother me? It seems to me you're the one being triggered, or if you will 'butthurt', taking someone's caricature of a type very personal, when you literally refered to it as 'calling me an asshole'.
 

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Exactly how are feelings 'garbage'?

Perhaps you mean to say, you do have the capacity to care about another's feelings, unless you don't, and in this case care about my feelings like you care about garbage, as to express contempt or disdain on a personal level rather than emotional? -ish?

Or, the other way round, that you have the capacity to be a disdainful asshole (as in 'care about the other's feeling like you care about garbage'), unless you care about their feelings?

It just depends which attitude is more prevalent/pervasive or exceptional (or situational). And whether this is someone's subjective observation and characterization of individual persons, or extrapolated and exaggerated to a stereotype caricature of an mbti type.

And either way, because of 'garbage feelings' - to answer my question - yes you expect me to be butthurt?

'kay. Whatever makes you feel better.

Would it bother you though, if it doesn't bother me? It seems to me you're the one being triggered, or if you will 'butthurt', taking someone's caricature of a type very personal, when you literally refered to it as 'calling me an asshole'.
Keep trying.
 

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I think I would care about your feelings if they weren't garbage.
His feelings are not garbage. Neither of yours are. What is the goal of this exchange? Do either of you respect or care for what the other has to say? It seems not, so this is really accomplishing nothing. It's like you're both barking at a wall.

@mimesis I ❤ you





Ok, thank you for getting back to me with so much more clarification. I know you didn't/don't wish to engage in conversation really, so I appreciate it. My kids are waiting for the computer, so my apologies if my response is not clear or well thought out.

Argue c. 1300, "to make reasoned statements to prove or refute a proposition," from Old French arguer Apr. 1170 « raisonnement destiné à prouver ou à réfuter une proposition » dér. d'arguere « démontrer » De monstrare = to show down to the bottom = down to the principle/axiom.
Came back to say something. I need to apologize for the following section. I'd like to delete it because it's embarrassing, but I won't. I don't know why this hadn't occurred to me yesterday, but I realized you may be French & I'm an ass for assuming you are American. It seems so ridiculous to me today that I hadn't considered this. If you are French, I am sorry. I am sorry regardless, because it was narrow-minded of me to assume.

Ahhhh yes, ye' old French definition of argue I DO NOT SPEAK FRENCH. I have a question. And again, I want you to tell me if this is wrong. This is me trying to understand & be shown if my thought process is wrong. When you respond to people like this ☝ (A definition in another language. I've seen you do it before.), is it an intelligence flex? Peacocking. A reminder of your intellectual superiority? It can come off that way, and is maybe part of why you get so much push-back? If that's your goal, it's unecessary. There are various forms of intelligence.

I don't think you do it for that purpose though. And I'm sorry if it's not why you do it & people (me, in this case) incorrectly assume that's why. I think it's maybe one area where people misjudge you. I think it is just how your brain works. You are very smart. I hope you have friends you're able to talk to that provide you with fulfilling, intellectual stimulation.



Stop assuming I want to prove you wrong. My goal has been to understand you, maybe learn something new, and call you out to back up your claim. It does not offend me that you think I was wrong. No, you do not owe me an explanation, I respect your wishes & will drop it. I think it's bullshit though. :)


If then but so yet thus. Arguing happens every time you are opposing a reasoning to what one says. What you desire is a thing, what you do is another. I am only bound to pay attention to what you do, your intention is your business.
Yes, I agree with all of this. Yes, chances are I would follow up with a "if, then, but, so, yet or thus". From my POV, challenging an idea is part of understanding. Lastly, given what you said above, you started an "argument". You opposed my reasoning. I don't think we're arguing rn though. Are we?

I am only bound to pay attention to what you do- Have I come across as argumentative to you thus far? I have been trying to use language that is not argumentative.

By implying that I lacked respect first, that would make me an offender ; whether or not that's how you redefine it and everything.
Correct.

When I cross a line for fun, push buttons as you say, it's kind of an inside joke with other extraverts. So the example you chose is an other level : I have lost all patience with the introvert. To give you a rough idea, the reason why I noticed the MBTI is that I was already studying on my own this epistemological disease Jung called introversion.
Ok, thank you for this honesty & clarification. I am sorry you have not had positive experiences with introverts. I wish that were not your experience.


For an introvert, or technically a prognosis reinforcer, or someone pathologically indulging in confirmation biases, the unexpected, hence reality is ultimatelly something to adapt to one's toughts. Scoring more or less introvert - roughtly J in the MBTI - implies that one is more or less severely limited in one's understanding of moral and scentific boundaries as well as oblivious to one's own flaws.

Basically what introverts do is throwing their buttons all around and thinking it's others who come to push them. I just push back the buttons that stir up the shit in this world. Introverts do fine as long as they know their place, but by principle they can't, it's just that they sometimes happen to stay still by habit like a broken clock points at the right time twice a day. This is no joke or a troll, obviously.
Would you mind sending a link or direction to where this all comes from, please? I'm trying to be open-minded here, but it's a struggle.

I do find that this makes you a hypocrite though, no? Are you not guilty of confirmation bias yourself by prescribing to this idea that introverts/J's will behave this way? I get that "by definition" they have to. But you believing this to be a fact is, in itself, a bias against J's. By your definition wouldn't that make you a "J"? Limiting your understanding and even applying boundaries to what a "J" is? It's putting things into a box. J. You are what you are claiming to stand against. Which makes you oblivious to your own flaws. Maybe I am not understanding your definition of "J"/introvert correctly. I'll reread it & chew on it more. Kids are circling me to get the computer. Maybe I'll try to clarify later. Not that you care, more for myself. :)
 

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PerC Host, ENTP 5w6 So/Sx 584 ILE
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Humorous
Peculiar
Enjoys playing devil’s advocate
Likes to be compelled
Crude sense of humor
Optimistic for the most part
Loyal to those they deeply care for
Sometimes selfish
Charismatic
Analytical
Clever
Excel at procrastination
Understanding
Perhaps shows the most feelings ( in a good way ) compared to the other NT type
Theoretical
Mischievous
Can see through a situation easily
Creative
Great at trolling


My type enfp - I adore entps - mainly due to the fact the closest people to me in my life are that type (my father and my bff )


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
FYI, I really enjoy ENFPs because no matter what, they are among the most enthusiastic people I've ever met. No matter what else there is, enthusiasm makes up for a lot.
 

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Beer Guardian
PerC Host, ENTP 5w6 So/Sx 584 ILE
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What is ENTP?
  • Is it the under-qualified over-paid chairman in the leased sports car who spends all day handing out snide remarks in the hallway and who texts on his phone at monday meetings?
  • Is it the uneducated CEO with the big goofy smile who listens to every word that the incompetent network administrator with the big mouth and inflated ego says?
  • Is it the incompetent network administrator with the big mouth and inflated ego?
  • Is it the programmer / consultant who slaps an entire program together in a day using unintelligible garbage spaghetti code and says "Now, you fix it."?
  • Is it the consultant whose entire life revolves around Manchester United?
  • Is it none of the above?
Note that these are all questions, and that none of them are intended to be rhetorical. If it's none of the above, then I don't know what an ENTP might be.
I have never encountered an overly entitled ENTP. This does not mean they don't exist, and let's be fair, we can be arrogant and obnoxious to a point, but we're not much for entitlement. We tend to be wary of authority and the status quo too much to use either in a selfish or self-serving manner. We don't mind being assholes, but we don't like being dicks about it.
 

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His feelings are not garbage. Neither of yours are. What is the goal of this exchange? Do either of you respect or care for what the other has to say? It seems not, so this is really accomplishing nothing. It's like you're both barking at a wall.

@mimesis I you


Ok, thank you for getting back to me with so much more clarification. I know you didn't/don't wish to engage in conversation really, so I appreciate it. My kids are waiting for the computer, so my apologies if my response is not clear or well thought out.
You're very kind @Kelly Kapowski

IDTS is granted the same basic respect as any other person. I'm more the type someone could lose my respect, as opposed to needing to earn it. I agree with your impression of him as dismissive, and he seems to be of the latter category. How was I disrespectful to him? I did tease him about his 'feelings of superiority', but this is something he has joked about himself, aside from his apparent dismissive dispositional attitude, at least here at the forum. I do believe it is plausible he has the capacity to care about other people's feelings, but let's just say he is also very good at hiding that here at PerC. I do think he is a smart person, though I can respectfully disagree with him on a number of things. I also think he's funny, even though that's not always intended as such. Like seeing introversion as a psycho-pathology, that's just f-ing hilarious. I have no doubt there are pathologies or syndromes that correspond more with introversion, for instance Schizotypal PD, but others will probably correspond more with extroversion.

And that's why I was interested in hearing from him what I did to make him believe my being butthurt and looking for a way to let him know is a reality. If that kind of explanatory style makes him feel better, I really am not bothered by it, but I do have reason to suspect projection, or 'prognosis', and arguably in a self- or ego-serving way (confirmation bias). I'm not looking to argue whether or not I was butthurt.

My curiosity was mostly sparked by what he said about introverts. So I'm looking out to learn more about the superior, healthy and adaptive extraverted type of processing of reality.
 

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You're very kind @Kelly Kapowski

IDTS is granted the same basic respect as any other person. I'm more the type someone could lose my respect, as opposed to needing to earn it. I agree with your impression of him as dismissive, and he seems to be of the latter category. How was I disrespectful to him?
Hi @mimesis! 😊

I don't think you were disrespectful. I don't think I said you were- did I? I just didn't see the exchange going anywhere & producing any beneficial fruit. You were asking questions (in a mildly poking manner, 'FESS UP, BOIII 🙃) & it was returned with dismissiveness wItH aSiDe Of IrOnIc PrOjEcTiOn. I should have minded mah bezness.

I did tease him about his 'feelings of superiority', but this is something he has joked about himself, aside from his apparent dismissive dispositional attitude, at least here at the forum. I do believe it is plausible he has the capacity to care about other people's feelings, but let's just say he is also very good at hiding that here at PerC. I do think he is a smart person, though I can respectfully disagree with him on a number of things. I also think he's funny, even though that's not always intended as such. Like seeing introversion as a psycho-pathology, that's just f-ing hilarious. I have no doubt there are pathologies or syndromes that correspond more with introversion, for instance Schizotypal PD, but others will probably correspond more with extroversion.

And that's why I was interested in hearing from him what I did to make him believe my being butthurt and looking for a way to let him know is a reality. If that kind of explanatory style makes him feel better, I really am not bothered by it, but I do have reason to suspect projection, or 'prognosis', and arguably in a self- or ego-serving way (confirmation bias). I'm not looking to argue whether or not I was butthurt.

My curiosity was mostly sparked by what he said about introverts. So I'm looking out to learn more about the superior, healthy and adaptive extraverted type of processing of reality.
Ok so maybe you guys are more familiar with each other & have previously crossed paths in other threads. (y) I'm going to refrain from giving my POV on the IDTS analysis, as it feels disrespectful to do so without his invitation. I also think it's part of the issue IDTS is having? While the OP asked for thoughts & opinions of ENTP's, he seems to be taking offense to some of it, namely the asshole comment. I'll tag him @IDontThinkSo though, as I got on his case about not tagging people when talking about them.

In regards to the bit about introversion- I don't know enough about it or where he's even coming from with that to have an opinion. As it stands right now, it appears to be a whole lot of hypocrisy & irony. I'm open to being proven wrong.

Hope you're having the best day, mimesis! :)
 

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So as you can guess I didn't bother reading.

About the whole introversion topic, link in my signature. Then you try to understand if I'm right, I can't be responsible for another's failure. No need for a source and peer reviewing, that's not how real science works.

The Universe is quite formidable in the way it cannot tolerate absurdities. Anything that is absurd ends up in the bin, it's that beauty which Einstein called Spinoza's god. We're all born garbage then you try to step out of the bin or your feelings and reasons to live are garbage. People with a tolerance for the absurd are the agents of nothingness.

In their relationships, humans tend to either look for a guide, a partner or a foe. The guide must be always right, the partner must be always equal, the foe must be always wrong. When it matters the most I'm always shamefully right, but never a guide. It's up to you to figure out what I should be in your heart, probably nothing.

And it's alright.

we can be arrogant and obnoxious to a point, but we're not much for entitlement.
Arrogant is literally a synonym of being self entitled. To arrogate is to "claim or demand presumptuously". Ad rogare...
 

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And about semantics, well, the more shallow the semantics the less usable the language as an interface to represent reality. Only the consistently self-referential part of a language can be representative. A set of words in which each word finds its own consistent place within the definition of every other. When changing the semantics of a word doesn't matter, it doesn't belong to a proper interface.
 

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So as you can guess I didn't bother reading.

About the whole introversion topic, link in my signature. Then you try to understand if I'm right, I can't be responsible for another's failure. No need for a source and peer reviewing, that's not how real science works.

The Universe is quite formidable in the way it cannot tolerate absurdities. Anything that is absurd ends up in the bin, it's that beauty which Einstein called Spinoza's god. We're all born garbage then you try to step out of the bin or your feelings and reasons to live are garbage. People with a tolerance for the absurd are the agents of nothingness.

In their relationships, humans tend to either look for a guide, a partner or a foe. The guide must be always right, the partner must be always equal, the foe must be always wrong. When it matters the most I'm always shamefully right, but never a guide. It's up to you to figure out what I should be in your heart, probably nothing.

And it's alright.



Arrogant is literally a synonym of being self entitled. To arrogate is to "claim or demand presumptuously". Ad rogare...
Except Einstein didn’t anticipate the creation of a new universe called the “internet” where absurdity is God!
 

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So as you can guess I didn't bother reading.

About the whole introversion topic, link in my signature. Then you try to understand if I'm right, I can't be responsible for another's failure. No need for a source and peer reviewing, that's not how real science works.

The Universe is quite formidable in the way it cannot tolerate absurdities. Anything that is absurd ends up in the bin, it's that beauty which Einstein called Spinoza's god. We're all born garbage then you try to step out of the bin or your feelings and reasons to live are garbage. People with a tolerance for the absurd are the agents of nothingness.

In their relationships, humans tend to either look for a guide, a partner or a foe. The guide must be always right, the partner must be always equal, the foe must be always wrong. When it matters the most I'm always shamefully right, but never a guide. It's up to you to figure out what I should be in your heart, probably nothing.

And it's alright.



Arrogant is literally a synonym of being self entitled. To arrogate is to "claim or demand presumptuously". Ad rogare...
It isn't that sort of arrogance. We tend to be experts on enough subjects that we generally know more stuff most people don't. We tend to learn and adapt our thinking via discussion and argument. We don't always explain ourselves well when it comes to what we know. People take this for arrogance when it is just a relatively broad knowledge base. We are generally not overly judgmental of others, we accept people as they are. We don't usually go after them without a solid reason. This is the way.
 

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As an INFJ, I found I really liked being around ENTPs. Despite the reputation for INFJs being emotional, I disliked being around emotional people, it is draining. There is only so many times I can handle my boss coming to me to vent about his incoming divorce lol.

ENTPs are generally creatures that don't emphasize emotion (I know this is a stereotype), which I generally find cool. As an INFJ with a really well developed Ti, I found you guys really fun to discuss and debate with.
 

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I didn't mean it literally. Where I live, "on speed" is similar to "on steroids"--i.e., the same only moreso. When viewed from the outside, INTPs can be witty, inspired, and entertaining at times, but ENTPs are MORE.
 
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