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I'm a social four and I have this state I can be in where I'm like in this natural state of happiness, freedom, lightness, laughter, like how you feel when you're at a picnic with your family in the summertime. That's like my happy place. It's sooo not this dark intense place that fours are supposed to be like. Don't get me wrong, I can get super intense when I'm in my feelings and I'm into dark things, but I just don't think I'm this deep dark person when I'm at my best, that's usually when I'm at my worst. When I'm at my best I'm like happy and lively and I feel connected to people and my mood is bright. I'm pretty sure this is a social thing.

Do other fours feel like this? Are you social fours like this?
 

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depends on where one's coming from. There're also higher mental health levels in less stressful environment, more abundance, more security. Enneagram's more complicated than just indicating a type. I'm a core-fix 4 but when in a good place, surrounded by lovely people I revert back to my natural, optimistic, calm state, which is a 9.
 

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I rarely show my dark side among people. I keep it to myself mostly and let it out only when alone, or with someone who is really close to me. When I'm in a company of others I can be fun, polite, nice, even charismatic.

I think this has to do a lot with your fixes as well. If you have a 7 or a 9 fix for example, you'd come across as more optimistic than other 4s.
 

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I rarely show my dark side among people. I keep it to myself mostly and let it out only when alone, or with someone who is really close to me. When I'm in a company of others I can be fun, polite, nice, even charismatic.

I think this has to do a lot with your fixes as well. If you have a 7 or a 9 fix for example, you'd come across as more optimistic than other 4s.
I have 1 and 6 fix, yet I can also be *carefree* and in a state similar to being a 9, which I always thought was odd cause I was supposed to integrate to 1. I assumed maybe it's cause I'm an SEI in socionics, or I don't know. But I can literally not have one thought go through me, other than pure blissful peace and calmness. Like elation off of equanimity. And that would be my happiest state of mind.
 

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This description describes me very well. I see it sort of describes some things @0wl has said as well.

Social/Sexual

This is overall the “lightest” type Four when it comes to social interaction. They are likely to utilize charm and humor. This type is more scattered and can be down right disorganized. They can drift through life always feeling like an outsider, yet they usually have friends. They can alternate from being the life of the party to withdrawing. Intimates will know of their insecurities and dark moody side while acquaintances will see a softer, friendlier side. This subtype’s energy is geared towards people, but they never feel as though they really fit in. They are often quite creative, talented people who have many interests, but they frequently lack the energy to actually accomplish what they would like. They can drift and withdraw very easily. When healthy and with the right support from friends (and perhaps a little push) they tap into their instinctual energy. When they do this, they begin to see how much they can accomplish. A positive connection to others helps them stay focused.
Being a "light" 4 make sense to me, because many type 4 descriptions sound like an overly angsty exaggeration of myself, like a way I could be if I was super duper angsty and depressed all the time. But in reality I am usually just witty and lighthearted towards people and have some moments of deep contemplation and sometimes depression, which will usually fade if I do not focus on it too much. But a normal day I am lighthearted and friendly, sometimes even if I am depressed in public I am more just self deprecating with humor and still manage to be lighthearted and funny in the midst of secret sadness. Sort of like a poisoned butterfly, from afar it is a pleasant sight, but if you look closely you can see he skips a beat with his wings, this is not normal, underneath the pleasant surface those who pay attention can see there is someone who may be disheartened. (But of course I tell no one, because , who got time for that sh*t! lol, oh lord, self deprecating again -_-.)



I see you are so/sp so see if you relate to this description.

Social/Self-pres

This subtype can mimic type One when it comes to social values. They can be harsh critics of the current mores. They have romantic ideals of what the world should be like; reality always falls short. Ironically, this type can be the most withdrawn of the Fours. Social anxiety combines with the Four’s shame issues to make this type feel that the pressure associated with “fitting in” is just not worth it. They are also the most likely of the Fours to intellectualize their emotions and in this way resemble type Five.

The social instinct tends to give the personality a focus on being included, fitting in, or finding a way to make a valued contribution. This agenda conflicts with the Four’s sense of being “different from” or “other than.” The Four’s need to establish a separate identity conflicts with the social instinct’s drive towards inclusion. The social Four often deals with this dilemma by defining themselves as being outside the social system. By defining themselves always in terms of the system, even if it is to establish distance, this Four stays essentially tied to it. Fours with the social/self-pres stacking tend to acutely feel a sense of social shame at not quite belonging.

When this subtype is reasonably healthy, they are often gifted critics of the prevailing culture. They develop true insight into social dynamics and have an eye for the nuances and subtleties of social interactions. Many Four writers are soc/self.
 

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I see you are so/sp so see if you relate to this description.
I mean I do actually relate to all of those things, but it still paints me as a really angsty and dark person that isn't me. I think maybe it's that when I'm in my "social" state, I'm happy and spontaneous and light. But when I'm withdrawn and contemplative, I'm a full-out sad and angsty four. I just feel weird about people thinking social types are so dark because when we are actually being "social", we're not that dark.

The descriptions also don't actually describe the social part of being a social type. That the feeling of togetherness deeply excites me to no end, and I am constantly wanting to experience it, that I spend my time trying to cultivate specifically a social identity, that I am extremely aware of other people's thoughts and emotions and excessively pick up on social cues, that an environment of true togetherness makes me jittery and jumpy and hyper, and also really confident.

That's my experience. Maybe it's just me. If you're a social type, please tell me if you have the same experience!

P.S. I love the poisoned butterfly analogy. I think it beautifully and perfectly illustrates my aura, or at least the aura I try to have.
 

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I mean I do actually relate to all of those things, but it still paints me as a really angsty and dark person that isn't me. I think maybe it's that when I'm in my "social" state, I'm happy and spontaneous and light. But when I'm withdrawn and contemplative, I'm a full-out sad and angsty four. I just feel weird about people thinking social types are so dark because when we are actually being "social", we're not that dark.

The descriptions also don't actually describe the social part of being a social type. That the feeling of togetherness deeply excites me to no end, and I am constantly wanting to experience it, that I spend my time trying to cultivate specifically a social identity, that I am extremely aware of other people's thoughts and emotions and excessively pick up on social cues, that an environment of true togetherness makes me jittery and jumpy and hyper, and also really confident.

That's my experience. Maybe it's just me. If you're a social type, please tell me if you have the same experience!

P.S. I love the poisoned butterfly analogy. I think it beautifully and perfectly illustrates my aura, or at least the aura I try to have.
Hm, you might be So/Sx. What you describes sounds very much like my own experience actually. I thought I was So/Sp as well until I read the So/Sx description. I also felt like they despcriptions where too dark and once I read that So/Sx 4 was the lightest 4 I was like YUP that is definitely me! But then it kept going on and I was like damn yea thats soooo me lol. But yea I relate alot to what you say there so hey maybe your So/Sx. #So/Sx problems lol. I think the descpritions describe the combo, if you read 4 with just So it decribes the social aspect alot more. But yea they way you describe needing to craft an identity among the group is the same for me as well, so much so it becomes exhausting if I do not find it, but it feels sooooo good when I do, like I am a round peg and I found a round hole to fit in.
 

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My twin brother is social 4. I’ve always had difficulty typing him in the 4 eneatype because he just doesn’t seem very sad or dramatic but I see now how he intellectualizes his emotions and I always see myself trying to connect with him but I feel like there is a kind of shame and anger in him that doesn’t allow to get very close.

We kind of always had the doubt about him being 5 cause he is very knowledgeable and smart. He is quite the social critique and reads a lot and is a very intellectual person. This makes him very charismatic because he combines this with a lot of sense of humor. I see now too in his constant jokes and sarcasm that he kinds of vents his not belonging feeling (he always critiques the way we were raised) through witty comments.
 

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depends on where one's coming from. There're also higher mental health levels in less stressful environment, more abundance, more security. Enneagram's more complicated than just indicating a type. I'm a core-fix 4 but when in a good place, surrounded by lovely people I revert back to my natural, optimistic, calm state, which is a 9.
meaning you're just a depressed 9 and not a core-fix 4.

My twin brother is social 4. I’ve always had difficulty typing him in the 4 eneatype because he just doesn’t seem very sad or dramatic but I see now how he intellectualizes his emotions and I always see myself trying to connect with him but I feel like there is a kind of shame and anger in him that doesn’t allow to get very close.

We kind of always had the doubt about him being 5 cause he is very knowledgeable and smart. He is quite the social critique and reads a lot and is a very intellectual person. This makes him very charismatic because he combines this with a lot of sense of humor. I see now too in his constant jokes and sarcasm that he kinds of vents his not belonging feeling (he always critiques the way we were raised) through witty comments.
Does he have strong political opinions?
 

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meaning you're just a depressed 9 and not a core-fix 4.
Meaning that I'm a depressed 9 that instead of solving its depression the E3/1 way, it fixates on image concerns (licking wounds, self-pitying) only to complicate its blight further.
 

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My twin brother is social 4. I’ve always had difficulty typing him in the 4 eneatype because he just doesn’t seem very sad or dramatic but I see now how he intellectualizes his emotions and I always see myself trying to connect with him but I feel like there is a kind of shame and anger in him that doesn’t allow to get very close.

We kind of always had the doubt about him being 5 cause he is very knowledgeable and smart. He is quite the social critique and reads a lot and is a very intellectual person. This makes him very charismatic because he combines this with a lot of sense of humor. I see now too in his constant jokes and sarcasm that he kinds of vents his not belonging feeling (he always critiques the way we were raised) through witty comments.
That sounds like me. Pretty sure I am 4 so/sp. INFJ.
 

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i didn't read through the whole thread, this is just in response to OP's post, so apologies in advance if it's sorta irrelevant.

i used to get these moods, but then with the high i'd inevitably crash back down. mood swings basically!
as i mature, my moods become more stable and my highs and my lows aren't so extreme. i actually don't enjoy feeling elated and ecstatic the way described, that much. because it never lasts more than an hour (at the very most), and i know it's not really.. what things are..
i'm "happiest" when I'm simply content and satisfied with everything and myself. i like to call it "quiet happiness". i think that is true happiness (for myself at least!)

as for on the surface, hahaha even my bestest friend that i've known for years just told me recently "i'm only realizing lately just how emotional of a person you are.."
people would describe me as very positive, silly, light-hearted, a relaxing presence. not at all that emo four stereotype.
my logics dominant friends have described me as totally unemotional, never shows her emotions.. so yah
only my journal sees my more emotional side :)
it's not really repression, it's just that it's not my personality to wear my sadder emotions on my sleeve
 
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