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I really want to know why.

Especially that's why I don't prefer any relationship with Fi users, man. Not that they are fundamentally unworthy for a relationship, just because they are most likely to misunderstand and therefore blame me. Even though I've some decades of experience, I couldn't find any way to avoid misunderstanding except being silent and let them think they are right. Some Fe users misunderstands too but at least they don't go that far like some Fi users. When I state this kind of opinion people think I'm being typist. They probably think; anyone who wrote articles about the pros and cons of the relationship between types is a typist and generalize their opinions too LMAO. Some people doesn't realize what "some" means and they have no idea what "could", "probably", "perhaps", "may", etc. means. SMH, I really don't know what to say to some Fi user. Unfortunately, sometimes damned if I do, damned if I don't.

If I remember correctly, your ex-wife was an INFP and there was no way to deal with her. Perhaps there is really no way to deal with some INFPs without ruining your own soul.
No, my ex-wife is probably an ESFP. Maybe ISFP. More importantly however, she likely has untreated Borderline Personality Disorder, which would be challenging in anyone regardless of their personality type. Or at least she's on that spectrum. Refuses to see a psych so who knows.

The style of communication you have adapted here on PerC appears combative and conflict-seeking, but I'm not sure those are your intentions. Maybe it is partially a cultural/language thing? I've only been briefly in your part of the world, and I'm not sure to what an extent you would say your style of communication resembles that of the culture you grew up in.

What I can say, however, is that where I come from, you would basically have to hate someone to use the kind of language you casually do here on PerC. Absolutely hate and detest. I don't think you hate anyone here, and I wonder what your impression is of how your posts are perceived, or why you express yourself the way you do. My impression of you, after reading several hundred of your posts, is of someone who cares about people and would want them to live in a good society, but you shroud it in a form of English which appears unnecessarily combative to many here on PerC. Why?

:happy:
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Whoa. Leave DTsuDtsu alone, @shadowbroker. Your posts are unnecessarily rude and they aren't contributing to the discussion; I reported them to the mods.
Haruna, thank you for the support. It's okay. I guess in the end I got a much-needed dose of realism that not all INFJs are as glorious as I think, haha. That could be a good thing - help me avoid putting people on pedestals and being too idealistic about it...

@DTsuDTsu, I haven't been in a romantic relationship with any INFPs, so I can't give you any advice, but my very dear cousin and her daughter are INFPs, and although it's hard to understand them sometimes, I love them a lot and like many of their quirks. I read your other post about your INFJ friend, and I'm sorry things aren't working out; the only advice I can give is to be true to yourself (an INFP strength) and to perhaps explain to him some of the differences in your personalities (but in layman's terms, not MBTI terms) and how they contributed to your relationship problems and how you two can work them out. Sorry if that isn't very clear; it's late and I'm not at my best. But I do wish you the best of luck.
That seems to be what my INFJ partner feels/felt, too. I know he knows I'm an oddball, but I also know that he likes it, and I do feel accepted. Oh, you've just reminded me of when we first met properly! I was horribly awkward, and what did he do? Rather than make fun of me the way others (to my thinking, understandably) did, he took my arm gently and asked if I was okay. Such a warm soul... I'm grateful, actually, to know that more INFJs like our INFP quirks. I don't know about other INFPs for sure, of course, but though I do love that which makes me unique, it's also a massive pain in the rear! For example, the social awkwardness!! Good lord! What I would give to just be able to make small talk and communicate in speech like a "normal person." :rolleyes:

What you said is a GREAT help, actually, because it's coming from someone who is an INFJ! I do try to stay true to myself, so I hope that means I'm doing something right (and I do sense deep down that that is one of my quirks he likes about me - I don't compromise who I believe I am or try to be someone else). But being able to discuss our differences related to MBTI is really a great idea, and I'm going to try it! Little by little, as I don't want him to feel too overwhelmed.

Oh my goodness, thank you!! <3
 

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I think abuse tends to exacerbate certain personality traits. I grew up in an emotionally abusive family and it has made my traits about trusting people even more warped. As INFJs tend to have trust issues regardless.
Oh yes, what a good point! Trust is such a biggie for people from abusive homes. :( Whether being too trusting or not at all! It always seems to fall under one extreme, eh?

And I agree with what you have said. INFJs aren't often as naturally sharing as INFPs. So while on the inside I might be listening to an INFP talk thinking "I wish you'd care to hear what I'm thinking sometimes and not just talk about yourself" when put on the spot we might actually prefer the listening over the sharing. Sharing can be daunting because we are often private people, even more than INFPs are. So that might be partially our fault. No one can wait all day for an INFJ to open their mouth if they're apprehensive in the first place.
Okay, so this is actually a thing! I mean, the INFJ man I've been talking about is also a Scorpio, so I wondered if it's just his Scorpio nature to be reserved like that, or if the INFJ bit exacerbates it. It did feel like both sort of lent themselves to that. It's sad, though. You guys need some time to talk for sure! What would help you to open up? I mean, something that would make you feel safe enough to share and not be too forward/demanding? I used to ask my INFJ guy if he needed to talk. I'd often tell him I wanted to hear his thoughts and feelings about things. He didn't often say, and I felt so shut out at times. I do understand why he's like that, but I couldn't help feeling down anyway. Then later when I said we needed time away to sort of collect ourselves after all the hurt....Geez, I'll never forget his tears. I wish it was easier to just be able to to say what we need to, but even for INFPs who (very clearly, hahaha) talk too much, we can be speaking for hours and never actually find the words we feel properly convey what we're trying to say. That often feels even worse than not getting to talk at all! :(

I hope you find a way to comfortably express yourself when you need to. I wish I had some advice on how to do that!

I definitely think what you've said about sharing information is true. INFJs can do it too. Anyone is capable of it. For example, my mother is that person for almost everyone in her life. She is a very straight-laced, forward thinking and realistic ISFJ and she is generally good at giving advice. Unfortunately, like me she often garners one-sided attention. People go to her to rant and be listened to but don't really stick around for her to open up too and it makes her feel used and unloved. Sadly, I know all of this because she uses me to listen to all of her problems the same way she is used by all of these friends and co-workers she has.

And that, need to share and explosion of it - I've done it to at least one person in all my life because of the reasons you mentioned.

I was so used to being everyone's shoulder to cry on, and the go to person people went to to talk about their feelings and what was going on in their life that it was almost never returned - I couldn't get a word in without seemingly destroying this bond I'd unwittingly created with others. And when I finally met someone (a non-INFP, can't remember their type but they were an extrovert, probably an EXFP) who wanted to know more about me more than they wanted to share and wasn't overwhelming to talk to, I think I quickly went overboard.
Yes, we all need someone to talk to, it's so true! I think it also comes down to whether or not a person is aware of others' feelings in the moment. If we've built up such resentment and need out of not being heard and have always otherwise had (for example) an INFJ friend who sat and listened to us, just like you said, we'd probably notice and feel badly hurt if the INFJ person suddenly stopped listening or seemed annoyed by our rambling or the like. It's not fair to anyone, actually. Because the INFJ person obviously would have been kind and patient all along, but also needs someone to be kind and patient with them. Thinking of this, actually...it's kind of good. I'm going to take this into my real life relationships, as well. Not even just the one with my lovely gent.

Maybe a good way to avoid "going overboard" (I have absolutely done that, and many times, so don't feel bad!), or rather to explain it away...Maybe we just need to be upfront about it. If someone listens to us for a while, maybe we can find some peace if we tell them outright that we are immensely grateful that they've listened to us rambling because we usually don't get to talk, and thus it all came out at once.

Oh dear, and here I go rambling.

And later I had a moment where I thought, "Fuck, I hope I haven't alienated them or given them the impression I'm a self-centred person! I'm not! It's just I never get to talk about myself and once I started, it was like word vomit and I couldn't stop!".

And don't worry, there are always, "What annoys you about INFJ threads?" that pop up. Always. So you'll get the opportunity, I promise.
Don't be so hard on yourself! I know it's easier said than done, and I would be feeling the exact same way inside, but maybe what we need to do is try to be more upfront about it when it happens and accept that it happens. Easy to say, not easy to do, but let's try!! After having just gotten out of an abusive situation with my family, I've been working through codependency issues anyway. This could be good for those of us with those kinds of tough backgrounds! :)

As for the thread...Hahaha! Well, I'd rather not pick apart INFJs. I like you guys too much! And even the things I don't like are more petty annoyances than anything serious. I can actually genuinely appreciate the "petty annoyances", too. I like the individual things that make up people's characters!

Thank you so much, by the way. This is exactly the kind of discussion I was looking for!
 

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Discussion Starter #24
I can only speak what I've heard from my INFJ SO how she sees similar question. We have couple of male INFP friends whom we both know well thus just speculated once about that - according to her they are too dreamy, slow in their actions and don't have that bit of aggression which could keep her lively if she had to be with that kind of person longer. That's not to say there would be anything upsetting about them, just maybe they're too calm and quiet persons for INFJ who is already quiet enough too thus it could become a bit boring in long term for both :)
Hey there! I just spent the day with my ENFP closest buddy. I adore you guys, too! :)

I could believe that, by the way! I think both of you are on the money with that point. There were moments with the INFJ guy where I felt like things had gotten too cozy. And I could feel that it was the same for him. We were too used to each other and had just gotten too comfortable with the routine. It took losing each other to realize how badly we still love and need each other, which is regrettable. But that lack of liveliness I think is a definite possibility for a problem, and something I now hope to avoid this second time around!

It might be harder for male INFPs, too. I can see how a lack of aggression, when many women like tough guys, could feel off-putting. I actually tend to like very gentle guys, so I guess I would also go well with another INFP, hahaha.

Thanks for this insight! This was excellent, and I have a takeaway from it. Don't let things get boring!!!! (And work on the dreaminess. I know it's an issue, haha!)

Thanks again!
 

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I'll only answer to one thing:



It wasn't a joke. 'Nuff said.

About other stuff you wrote about me: Unfortunately, some INFPs misunderstands therefore as you continue to communicate with them, they drag you down and blame you stuff for you didn't even intended. Perhaps this is a fundamental reason why there is a communication problem with INFJ guy and you. And I don't really think now that the INFJ guy is to blame. I accept that I'm a terrible person but ask yourself if you are terrible too or not, I hope you are not a terrible person. You really didn't have to defend yourself like how you did. Even though I think you are very annoying, I don't even dislike you for it.

Perhaps you thought I dislike INFPs because of my bad experience with them. Nope, I don't dislike INFPs for it, I dislike some of their behavior. There is a lot of difference. Because I dislike some of their behaviors, I couldn't form a proper relationship (at least a relationship I want) with them even though they are a very valuable person for me.

If you can pay attention to what I wrote and writing, I hope you will realize I wasn't looking for a fight. I accept I did wrong to express my emotion and I'm sorry for it. I'm not a robot, I'm a human. Of course, sometimes I will express my emotions but it doesn't mean I did no wrong. I'm really sorry about it. It was silly of me to be unnecessarily negative about it and wrote rude stuff.

Actually, I should have banned by now even though all the reporting but it didn't happen for some reason. If I get banned for it then I want to write; I really don't care about a ban from a website (do people really care about bans on the internet?) therefore what I wrote is my honest thought. People, who know me here probably know I'm honest, right guys? But unfortunately some people will even misunderstand this message too. Shame on them then. It's not my problem.

If I'm really going to get banned for it then:



No hard feelings. You guys did what seems right therefore there is nothing to blame for. Life is too short to waste time hating anyone. Always forgive and love one another.
Honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong with being honest, and that's what I was looking for here. But honesty, really, should come with tact. And it should absolutely never come with bias or cruelty. The rules of the forum are pretty clear. I'm brand new here, and I can see that. I would think that anything you wouldn't be able to handle hearing about your own type (especially generalized attacks which come from a place of resentment and hatred) would obviously not be something to say to anyone else. As they say, if you can't take it, don't dish it. But beyond that, this was an open discussion seeking understanding - and by extension, harmony - between two types who often have miscommunication problems. Being inflammatory and downright cruel had no place here. However, I respect that you took the time to...apologize, I think.

Also, I did read everything you wrote. I took from it what I could. However, your views are very extremist and cruel. For a moment, you had me wondering if us INFPs are really that bad, so if that's what you were going for, congratulations. However, I know how my INFJ partner feels about me and I about him, and my INFJ friends....I'm glad to have a reminder that most INFJs do not possess the extreme and extremely rude views that you do. And what you said about "wanting to beat the shit out of INFPs with a guitar" is frankly disgusting. A bit harsh to say perhaps, but the truth. I can't understand how you can claim to "only dislike some of INFPs' behaviors" when you feel that these kinds of words are an appropriate reaction to the mere mention of INFPs as a group.

As for the suicide comment. Maybe you did not intend it as a joke, but it came from a place of malice and was said in a offhand manner. It was obviously not well-intended in any way, and I stand by what has been said here: please do not make light of suicide in any way, shape, and/or form.

One last thing...You say you might have wanted a relationship with an INFP. If you really do want to seek a relationship with one (although I really wouldn't recommend it, mostly because I don't think INFPs deserve your resentment, however unhealthy among their group they may be), try to consider how your perspective (which is needlessly harsh and biased) might be getting in the way of things. Try to see all their rough points as quirks to find endearing or funny - or a challenge that requires a new way of thinking. THAT'S okay. That's not cruel. If you can imagine hearing the same words you said about INFPs about your type and you personally, if you can REALLY imagine how that would feel (especially if someone said they would beat the shit out of you with a guitar JUST because you're an INFJ), then I think maybe you would be on the beginning of a path to understanding. Maybe not quite yet on the beginning of a path to being together with an INFP person.

We are not perfect, no, but we don't deserve such hatred. I'm sorry if you can't see that.

Again, best of luck to you. And I saw you replied again, still making generalized statements about INFPs. Please lay off it. I haven't actually reported you to the Mods yet, but I will do so if you continue to turn this thread into your personal rant session.
 

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No, my ex-wife is probably an ESFP. Maybe ISFP. More importantly however, she likely has untreated Borderline Personality Disorder, which would be challenging in anyone regardless of their personality type. Or at least she's on that spectrum. Refuses to see a psych so who knows.

The style of communication you have adapted here on PerC appears combative and conflict-seeking, but I'm not sure those are your intentions. Maybe it is partially a cultural/language thing? I've only been briefly in your part of the world, and I'm not sure to what an extent you would say your style of communication resembles that of the culture you grew up in.

What I can say, however, is that where I come from, you would basically have to hate someone to use the kind of language you casually do here on PerC. Absolutely hate and detest. I don't think you hate anyone here, and I wonder what your impression is of how your posts are perceived, or why you express yourself the way you do. My impression of you, after reading several hundred of your posts, is of someone who cares about people and would want them to live in a good society, but you shroud it in a form of English which appears unnecessarily combative to many here on PerC. Why?

:happy:
Absolutely hate and detest.

Yes. That sensation absolutely came through here. Although to be fair, I would have been equally horrified even if it hadn't been my type under attack. There were just some impossibly cruel words and insinuations tossed around like it was nothing at all. I can't fathom how a person could think that that kind of blatant, borderline violent bigotry makes the targets of the bigotry far worse than the bigot himself.
 

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I can only speak what I've heard from my INFJ SO how she sees similar question. We have couple of male INFP friends whom we both know well thus just speculated once about that - according to her they are too dreamy, slow in their actions and don't have that bit of aggression which could keep her lively if she had to be with that kind of person longer. That's not to say there would be anything upsetting about them, just maybe they're too calm and quiet persons for INFJ who is already quiet enough too thus it could become a bit boring in long term for both :)
that's about the first thing that actually sounds like INFP behavior in this thread lol
 

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that's about the first thing that actually sounds like INFP behavior in this thread lol
-nods-

I was starting to think we were the world's most hated MBTI group and pure evil by some comments here. It was like, Damn. How did I not see the Hell Demon peering out through my eyes when I looked in the mirror this morning?

But don't you feel that our inability to understand ourselves at times can also be confusing for other people too? I can understand some of the other thoughts here, in that sense. I feel like we can unintentionally present ourselves the wrong way at times. Especially in moments when we're really socially anxious.
 

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No, my ex-wife is probably an ESFP. Maybe ISFP. More importantly however, she likely has untreated Borderline Personality Disorder, which would be challenging in anyone regardless of their personality type. Or at least she's on that spectrum. Refuses to see a psych so who knows.
What's so interesting about your ex-wife is; your ex-wife perhaps really suffer from any emotion related disorder if she is really a Fi-Se user. I mean, as far as I know, Fi-Se users sometimes very sensitive to negative emotions, even more than Fi users, therefore they may be very grumpy and very selfish especially under any slightest stress. If that's the case perhaps having low EQ and using Fi-Se functions may lead to emotion related disorders. I'm no doctor but I kinda see a pattern now.

It's definitely because of the culture I grew up and my past. I mean, where I live, people can express their negative emotions and they don't really take it personally. But of course, sometimes people here too misunderstand and take it personally and be enemy of you. We are very emotional people and we can easily understand if someone has ill intent or not therefore that's why in my culture we are more honest with our expression of negative emotions.

But in other societies (especially USA), because psychology is popular, people try to find mental illness in your every behavior. For example, I was discussing if Sigmund Freud is right and wrong about his thought about ego with a USA citizen, she avoided my questions (I wanted to learn her own opinion and made it very clear) and said I have an ego problem and shared some Wikipedia articles like how she is right. In my culture, we openly discuss scientific stuff and it's very objective discussing as much as we can. We want to learn, not try to be right therefore we explore possibilities like how a good scientist would do. But because of culture difference people misunderstands. Perhaps this is because, in my culture, we teach kids how to think like a scientist, we don't force information like it's true but perhaps in the USA, they just force you information and expect you to believe them, I really have no idea.

But it doesn't mean by behavior is acceptable because of my culture (not everyone here is negative and honest about their emotions like I'm). I'm not trying to be a drama queen but, I've some bad experienced in life and I still suffer the after-effects of this past. No, I don't suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder, but sometimes I realize I'm in the mood of fighting a war that ended a long long time ago, like I'm a soldier and people in front of me are my enemies. Sometimes I don't realize if I'm in such mood. Perhaps this happens because of my bad genes and my personality that shutdowns my emotions automatically and prefers to be a cold analytical scientist.

Because I have a very high EQ (no I'm not trying to ego masturbate, it's not something that I would feel good about it. I have a point to make), the doctor said, I don't realize; some people are not good at dealing with their emotions as much as I do. I mean, I'm not get upset from some negative emotions as much as some people do therefore I may hurt their feeling even though it's not my intent because sometimes I don't aware how much I'm negative because I mistakenly think it's okay but in reality I'm like beating people with words. Because of my cold analytical side, I can be a very annoying person.

So, people may think I'm angry just because I write "fuck" and whatnot but in fact, it's my way to share my slightest negative emotion. Sometimes I behave like it because of my weird sense of humor (my avatar for example). Some people are very black and white about emotion detection therefore they may think what I expressed is hate, but there is a lot of negative emotion like helpless, defeated, annoyed, dislike, disturbed, etc. and there is some emotions I feel that has no word for it like "I love you and I hate myself for treating you like this like you deserved this particular behavior but I assure you, you deserve the best and I'll do my best to be helpful to you but I'm not capable to treat you like how I think you deserved the best treatment because shit happens and I'm sorry for it". I can feel a lot of different kind of emotions but people can't understand it and sometimes best way for me to express emotion is cursing to avoid making explanation of what I really feel because some cursing words sums up the emotion I feel about particular subject if I can use such words in the right time and if people can understand it.
 

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It might be harder for male INFPs, too. I can see how a lack of aggression, when many women like tough guys, could feel off-putting. I actually tend to like very gentle guys, so I guess I would also go well with another INFP, hahaha.
Fortunately there are very different persons on earth and there's something for everybody out there :) It depends on particular women which kind of guy they might prefer and there's nothing wrong with preferring a more gentle guy. For example, my INFP friend is rather smooth/soft and gentle but he is incredibly popular among different girls like a magnet and is definitely able to find a new date much more easily than me if I was single :)
 

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I have only had associations with young INFPs, and my experience was like walking on eggshells.

They all seemed to walk about as if they carried their hearts cupped in the palm of their hands, and whenever we sat down together, they would delicately place their heart on the table like a centrepiece between us. Eye to eye we could converse and laugh, but in the corner of my eye, I could only see their beating scarred heart, carelessly sellotaped together, which made many a topic very difficult to withstand. One-to-one matters were sustainable.

In a group setting, there is always that person who'll mistake that heart for a rotten peach, and backhand it onto the floor. Instantly would the INFP become unresponsive and uncooperative for the rest of the evening. Conflict would thus arise. The INFP would see no fault in having placed their heart on the table, and would evermore loathe the person who knocked it away, and that loathing was irredeemable. Everybody else would try to reason with the INFP, who had no intentions to compromise in return, and the situation was like dealing with a neurotic teenager in a dysfunctional family.

I recall one incident of a man's 50th birthday where a group of us dined out. He was pretty emotional about the ageing, particularly as he was single due to his wife of 17 years leaving him for another man 3 years earlier, and evidently was going through a bit of a crisis in regards to it. Everybody arrived, sat, talked and laughed, and looked over the menu. Where everybody discussed the options and whatnot, the INFP was displeased. She did not like the menu. Refusing to partake in the occasion, she ordered herself a small siding of fries, a hot chocolate, and sulked quietly to herself for the rest of the evening. Suddenly the night was no longer about the man's 50th, but about the INFP. Next day, the INFP was confused as to why people neglected her at the dinner, why they weren't acknowledging her in conversations, and why people were passive-aggressive with her next day. Everything was everybody else's fault.

INFPs seem to start life with no shell whatsoever. They harden from the inside-out, whilst most others harden outside-in. I don't know if IxFPs ever truly form a shell, per se, or something to sustain themselves in reality, for I have had similar encounters with an older ISFP. There is a specific amount of conscious energy that needs to take place when with such INFPs, and I don't think the world for what it is wants to deal with that on a regular basis.
 

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...So, people may think I'm angry just because I write "fuck" and whatnot but in fact, it's my way to share my slightest negative emotion...
Making light of suicide of a specific group of MBTI type people, and talking about violently beating them simply for being who they are speaks of more than anger. It speaks of real issues. If your culture is so open about it - cool beans. But as you can see from the many replies here, most people are not. If you're entering a space where you are a guest, it is only right to adhere to the rules of that space, not force your own onto everyone else there. By that logic, you would be as "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" as you claim INFP people are. It astounds me that you don't see your own hypocrisy there. And if you can take negativity so easily as you say and genuinely not mind, then why do you have so many cruel things to say about INFP people to begin with? Why do their behavior upset you so much? I can't even begin to fathom it. It's far too hypocritical and entirely un-self-aware.
 

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Fortunately there are very different persons on earth and there's something for everybody out there :) It depends on particular women which kind of guy they might prefer and there's nothing wrong with preferring a more gentle guy. For example, my INFP friend is rather smooth/soft and gentle but he is incredibly popular among different girls like a magnet and is definitely able to find a new date much more easily than me if I was single :)
It's very true! Although I do feel like INFP/INFJ men are as rare a breed as they are said to be. The idea of a man who isn't afraid to be human and vulnerable, to possess emotions, and really feel things around him...That is almost Godly to me, it seems so rare and precious!

And hahaha, well, I'm very happy to hear that about your INFP male friend. Good for him! He's not too socially anxious? I wonder if that's just an issue for some of us more than others.

And don't sell yourself short! I am sure you would be an absolute magnet if people knew all the beautiful things within! But I do feel that INFJs tend to hide that, don't you? I'm generalizing now, but I do feel that the group members tend to be too hard on themselves. INFPs can be like that, too, of course, but I think the enjoyment of being "unique" or "strange" helps a bit.
 
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It's definitely because of the culture I grew up and my past.
I see. Thank you for sharing. If I were you, I'd save this post for reference, maybe add it to your signature (inside spoilers maybe).

It is also interesting to think that everyone would expect to encounter a rather different emotional/conversation culture if they travelled to your part of the world, but online, especially on US-dominated boards like PerC, people tend to expect something more ... American, I suppose. Places like PerC do need to have some common rules of course. You may want to consider sharing where you are from, although I understand why you wouldn't.

And yes, if there is anything you can do to remember how other people in places like PerC might perceive your words, it would most likely be worth the effort. I think to many on PerC, you often come across like this when that almost certainly isn't your intention.
 
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I recall one incident of a man's 50th birthday where a group of us dined out. He was pretty emotional about the ageing, particularly as he was single due to his wife of 17 years leaving him for another man 3 years earlier, and evidently was going through a bit of a crisis in regards to it. Everybody arrived, sat, talked and laughed, and looked over the menu. Where everybody discussed the options and whatnot, the INFP was displeased. She did not like the menu. Refusing to partake in the occasion, she ordered herself a small siding of fries, a hot chocolate, and sulked quietly to herself for the rest of the evening. Suddenly the night was no longer about the man's 50th, but about the INFP. Next day, the INFP was confused as to why people neglected her at the dinner, why they weren't acknowledging her in conversations, and why people were passive-aggressive with her next day. Everything was everybody else's fault.
The picture you paint here is that she tried to participate in the celebration in whatever way she could, yet other people were sour about it... unless you mean she was trying to stir all the conversation about her (which doesn't sound INFPish) or leaving out other details, I'm not seeing what you are in this.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
I have only had associations with young INFPs, and my experience was like walking on eggshells.

They all seemed to walk about as if they carried their hearts cupped in the palm of their hands, and whenever we sat down together, they would delicately place their heart on the table like a centrepiece between us. Eye to eye we could converse and laugh, but in the corner of my eye, I could only see their beating scarred heart, carelessly sellotaped together, which made many a topic very difficult to withstand. One-to-one matters were sustainable.
I don't know whether or not to call myself a young INFP (I am in my late twenties), but I must admit that even I am very, very, very guilt of this. Though at times when I do not feel safe, I can go to the opposite end of the spectrum and emote almost nothing at all. Inside is a storm, but outside, I can appear totally disconnected and nonchalant. Which I don't know if that's an INFP thing, or what. But my standard status is "heart on the sleeve", absolutely yes. Your analogy is spot on there (and a beautifully-expressed one, for the record).

I do think INFP people tend to leave their heart more "visible" to those they trust more, though. At least older or more experienced INFPs. So if you're conversing with one who has created this image before you, as uncomfortable as I'm sure it must be (so, so sorry!!), I want to say that it does mean they trust you enough to see that about them. With my INFJ guy, I could also be like this, I know. And I trusted him seeing that scarred heart sellotaped together.

So this is very tough for you, right? Is it that it's too much to see? Or simply that you don't know what to do? That you can see it at all is a real blessing, at least for the INFP.

In a group setting, there is always that person who'll mistake that heart for a rotten peach, and backhand it onto the floor. Instantly would the INFP become unresponsive and uncooperative for the rest of the evening. Conflict would thus arise. The INFP would see no fault in having placed their heart on the table, and would evermore loathe the person who knocked it away, and that loathing was irredeemable. Everybody else would try to reason with the INFP, who had no intentions to compromise in return, and the situation was like dealing with a neurotic teenager in a dysfunctional family.
I can also see this happening, too. I think I can even recount instances like this in my own life. As an INFP, I want to note that when I do this - put my heart out there - it is because I want to believe in the innate good of all people. I want to make people happy and make sure they are having a good time. I want them to know that I am open and can be trusted. I want to trust them with my heart, too. I have nothing to hide! However, what it would say to me if someone backhanded my heart to the floor is that they - at best - have no tact, and at worst, downright despised me/were taking advantage of me for being open. If no one around me defended me or understood why it would hurt, I would also go unresponsive and be upset. It would be a very alienating feeling, being so misunderstood. And while, yes, it would be my own fault to have put my heart out there, it would also bother me that people would rather point blame at me aiming for optimism over putting the blame on someone who was either tactless, unaware, or purposefully mean and ultimately hurt another.

Hmm, very thought-provoking.

But in the first place, how would it be okay for someone to assume another's heart is a "rotten peach", though? I know we can't expect all people to be aware or tactful, but I would still feel that it was needlessly cruel for a person to react like that, especially if they did not apologize and/or everyone else agreed with them.

That's just my perspective as an INFP, because I can absolutely put myself in the shoes of the INFP in the story.

Do you feel like other types would not react sensitively in such a situation? I would have thought INFJs would also be upset if they put themselves out there and were treated in such a way...I know the setup of the situation would be a bit different, but hmm...Maybe I'm wrong?

I recall one incident of a man's 50th birthday where a group of us dined out. He was pretty emotional about the ageing, particularly as he was single due to his wife of 17 years leaving him for another man 3 years earlier, and evidently was going through a bit of a crisis in regards to it. Everybody arrived, sat, talked and laughed, and looked over the menu. Where everybody discussed the options and whatnot, the INFP was displeased. She did not like the menu. Refusing to partake in the occasion, she ordered herself a small siding of fries, a hot chocolate, and sulked quietly to herself for the rest of the evening. Suddenly the night was no longer about the man's 50th, but about the INFP. Next day, the INFP was confused as to why people neglected her at the dinner, why they weren't acknowledging her in conversations, and why people were passive-aggressive with her next day. Everything was everybody else's fault.
This is very ugly! I wonder if this is INFP-only behavior, or if the woman perhaps had a personality disorder. Like Narcissistic Personality Disorder, for example. Making that poor man's misery into a show about her. I know someone who is an INFP who is like this, and she does have that disorder. Which also gets me wondering if certain MBTI types tend towards certain personality disorders, actually! (By the way, I'm sorry for such an awful experience - that woman sounds dreadful!)

Thanks for the in-depth response, and beautifully-worded!
 

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It's very true! Although I do feel like INFP/INFJ men are as rare a breed as they are said to be. The idea of a man who isn't afraid to be human and vulnerable, to possess emotions, and really feel things around him...That is almost Godly to me, it seems so rare and precious!

And hahaha, well, I'm very happy to hear that about your INFP male friend. Good for him! He's not too socially anxious? I wonder if that's just an issue for some of us more than others.

And don't sell yourself short! I am sure you would be an absolute magnet if people knew all the beautiful things within! But I do feel that INFJs tend to hide that, don't you? I'm generalizing now, but I do feel that the group members tend to be too hard on themselves. INFPs can be like that, too, of course, but I think the enjoyment of being "unique" or "strange" helps a bit.
Yep, it might vary from person to person quite a lot and also depends on overall situation in your life too. When we first met years ago, he seemed more socially quiet and quite withdrawn due to some previous breakups or work stress or something which I don't know about. But now, in overall I'd say he seems to be more social person than I am (I've not actually been very social person ever, though I don't have any anxieties or anything else either). No anxieties for him either.

Maybe one thing which works against him, especially related to relationships, is that perfection/idealism which makes him quite easily withdraw in case of any mismatches or incompatibility. I understand this is what probably makes dom Fi different from aux Fi and is clearly our difference too - I'm much more sturdy to fix things and try to action towards my perfect illusion in relationship without discarding my partner in case of misunderstanding or a minor incompatibility.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
The picture you paint here is that she tried to participate in the celebration in whatever way she could, yet other people were sour about it... unless you mean she was trying to stir all the conversation about her (which doesn't sound INFPish) or leaving out other details, I'm not seeing what you are in this.
I do actually know another INFP with a personality disorder who behaves just like this. (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). She can get really nasty when she thinks she's not getting the attention she deserves - and anything at all can set off that nastiness. But that's the result of her personality disorder, not her type.

However yes, I don't think it's indicative of INFP people as a whole, absolutely not. I agree with you that it's rather opposite our general nature to try to stir all conversation about ourselves.
 

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Funny thing is that I was coming to PerC to rant about some INFP relation I have. I really hope my reply doesn't offend anyone. I will try to be considerate as I can in choosing my words and let me say that my comments are based only one friendship with an INFP so I can't say for sure that the things that annoy me might not be something that every INFP do. However, a month ago I did some digging for old posts on INFJ thoughts of INFP here on PerC and It had alot of replies all mostly saying the same things I am saying. They're probably minor things that other people wouldn't care about.

Anyway. Honestly speaking. I never met a friend that i found as "annoying" as I find my INFP friend and that I kinda get annoyed by almost everything he does which I do not know exactly why! I can't pinpoint what exactly made me start feeling that annoyed by all or any of their actions. we had a good friendship the first couple of weeks I knew him but after that. I just "can't" even though we still talk and I try to be as nice and supportive as I can but I feel like I wanna cut them off but I feel that's just too mean since I honestly don't think he's a bad person and definitely doesn't deserve to be ghosted and I don't like to hurt people even though all i get from the friendship right now is being annoyed. I think i started to get annoyed by them by noticing how much they need everyone's approval and praise in a way. Like if he tells me "I had a bad day" I don't think that having me being supportive is enough. I started to notice that almost everything they tell me about tiny details that happened in their day is on their twitter. Like something would come randomely and he would mention a good deed he did today and of course I praise him for having done something good but then he shares in a very "weird" way how he did this good thing today on his social media accounts and he can even get upset about people not responding or not getting any response back. I just started to notice this and in a way, some people like their social media and I can understand that coming for more extraverted people. But I just don't understand that constant need for praises and affirmation.

The other thing that got me very upset at one point and it just happened again yesterday was he tries to "project" what is on his mind and just acts on it and somehow I am supposed to be apologising for something I didn't do. Like a few months ago for no reason we were talking about something and I didn't have a good day and was probably not very cheerful as I can be sometimes and all of a sudden I get "hey, I will leave you to be now because I don't want you to annoy anymore". So for me to abrubtly end a conversation we're having because you're "assuming" I am annoyed even though I am just having a bad day which you know that I do. it pissed me off. Of course I don't like to be mean again. So i just responded firmly why would you assume I am annoyed when I am not? why not just ask me? Why not better assume that as I said I was having a bad day so maybe I am just talking with no care because I am having a bad day? and this happened again yesterday. He messages me to ask how is my day and I sent a message saying "I will probably disapper for the next couple of weeks so don't take it personally if I don't talk much because I have some financial difficulties and I am not in the mood to chat". Again, all of a sudden, he's saying how no one care about him and no one cares if his day was good or bad even though I told him "I hope you're having a good day" at the end of my message. and again I asked firmly "You're saying no one cares about you, do you think I don't care about you?" which he just deflected and said "I am just tired and I will go to bed.". I just don't understand why I get this after I literally said that I have financial issues and won't be able to talk much and somehow it transformed into me not caring about his day that I was forced out of guilt to continue talking to him for a few hours even though I was not in the mood for that at all. These two points are the main things that annoy me. But other stuff like him being very touchy and like hugs and cuddles and ....etc. which is something I really don't like. for example. I would never be able to be in an actual relationship with someone who is that touchy and feely because I don't like to be like that.

hopefully that's not offensive to anyone. I usually just give examples of things that annoyed me because it's better than just stating INFP are this or that.
 
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