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Discussion Starter #1
What would a psychopathic INFP,INFJ,ESFP and etc. be like?

How would they behave with their functions when they have a complete lack of empathy?

Is it even possible for a feeler to be a psychopath?
 

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John Wayne Gacy, when I read about his life, struck me as ENFJ. Not sure if he counts since technically he was a sociopath, not a psychopath, iirc? Sensitive guy, but also charismatic, natural leader, appearance of being generous, organized and thought things through but obviously driven by emotions and the impulse those feelings created. While he was in prison he did a lot of painting and was successful at it.
 

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I think it's nearly impossible to test as an xxFJ and a psychopath at the same time. Maybe an xxFP, but even that barely makes sense.

In fact xxTJ would probably have the closest traits, especially ENTJ/ESTJs similar to psychopathy. But of course that's not the question you're asking...

I don't believe it's impossible however, if you know anything about the anime/manga Death Note. The character "Kira" would probably be the closest example of a feeling psychopath.

Kira's original purpose in the story is to create a better world, often sacrificing the short-term and present circumstances/individuals for the long-term goal of virtual peace. This strongly indicates he was an INFJ. (His dual personality however, is an ISFJ) This contradicts what a strong Fe should be like, but actually it would make sense because he seeks harmony but cares less about the present and often disposes of anything that gets in the way of his plan (inferior Se, dominant Ni)

So I suppose if you want a case, though it maybe fictional, "Kira" is your best bet. Check out the anime/manga if you haven't, it's definitely not for children.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
John Wayne Gacy, when I read about his life, struck me as ENFJ. Not sure if he counts since technically he was a sociopath, not a psychopath, iirc? Sensitive guy, but also charismatic, natural leader, appearance of being generous, organized and thought things through but obviously driven by emotions and the impulse those feelings created. While he was in prison he did a lot of painting and was successful at it.
I don't know but don't feelers tend to empathize with a situation before making any action conflicts inherently with what a psychopath is, someone who lacks empathy.
 

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I don't know but don't feelers tend to empathize with a situation before making any action conflicts inherently with what a psychopath is, someone who lacks empathy.
not an unhealthy one i assume
 

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I don't know but don't feelers tend to empathize with a situation before making any action conflicts inherently with what a psychopath is, someone who lacks empathy.
You might have to ask an actual psychopath for the answer to that one. I mean, yeah, obviously feelers are empathetic people, but just about everyone values their own feelings more highly than other people's, which is one reason people make irrational decisions all the time: because doing whatever they did felt good at the time. And I'm sure psychopaths are capable of rationalizing what they do, just as we rationalize our own realities.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I think it's nearly impossible to test as an xxFJ and a psychopath at the same time. Maybe an xxFP, but even that barely makes sense.

In fact xxTJ would probably have the closest traits, especially ENTJ/ESTJs similar to psychopathy. But of course that's not the question you're asking...

I don't believe it's impossible however, if you know anything about the anime/manga Death Note. The character "Kira" would probably be the closest example of a feeling psychopath.

Kira's original purpose in the story is to create a better world, often sacrificing the short-term and present circumstances/individuals for the long-term goal of virtual peace. This strongly indicates he was an INFJ. (His dual personality however, is an ISFJ) This contradicts what a strong Fe should be like, but actually it would make sense because he seeks harmony but cares less about the present and often disposes of anything that gets in the way of his plan (inferior Se, dominant Ni)

So I suppose if you want a case, though it maybe fictional, "Kira" is your best bet. Check out the anime/manga if you haven't, it's definitely not for children.
Another example of a feeler psychopath I could think would be Dexter from the TV show "Dexter." Dexter seems empathizes with situations but he does show other classic traits of any psychopath.

In fact this thread seems a bit silly now as I read what a psychopath actually is, the more I see it is just another personality disorder. One that could be quite advantageous too which is strange as it is well known that many successful CEO's, lawyers, surgeons and journalists commonly show traits of psychopath.

But in saying that psychopaths antisocial tendencies could be seen as an outlet due to their exaggerated ability to repress feelings and in this way I can see why it is a disorder
 

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This is the Hare Psychopathy Checklist:


  • glib and superficial charm, (Can exist in both feelers and thinkers)
  • grandiosity (Can exist in both feelers and thinkers)
  • need for stimulation (Can exist in both feelers and thinkers, I'd say that Ne dom and Se dom would most likely show this the most)
  • pathological lying (Can exist in both feelers and thinkers)
  • cunning and manipulating, (Can exist in both feelers and thinkers)
  • lack of remorse (Can exist in both feelers and thinkers)
  • callousness (Can exist in both feelers and thinkers)
  • poor behavioral controls (I'd say this would be the most likely to show up in Ne and Se doms)
  • impulsiveness (Again Se and Ne doms)
  • irresponsibility (Seems like something that would show up in Perceivers more than Judgers)
  • denial (Can exist in people regardless of MBTI type)
  • parasitic lifestyle (Can exist in people regardless of MBTI type)
  • sexual promiscuity (Can exist in people regardless of MBTI type)
  • early behavior problems (I read somewhere that quite a lot of perceivers have such problems*)
  • lack of realistic long-term goals (Seems like something that would show up in intuition + feeling)
  • failure to accept responsibility for own actions (Can exist regardless of MBTI type)
  • many short-term marital relationships (Can exist regardless of MBTI type)
  • juvenile delinquency (More culturally/community related than anything else)
  • revocation of conditional release (A function of other factors within the PLC-R)
  • criminal versatility (Not type related)

I think that to argue something like "can feelers be psychopaths" you're either wrong about what "feeling" as a function is about or are unfamiliar with the diagnostic criteria for Anti-Social personality disorder/Psychopathy. The main "trait" that seems to exemplify the disorder is a lack of empathy, some even argue that a lack of empathy is the cause of everything else.

James Fallon did some very interesting research on the "psychopathic genes" and psychopathic brain patterns, that seem to indicate that there is a "perfect storm" type of psychopath, wherein you get a combination of "warrior genes" and brain abnormalities that lead to certain consequences.

The other side of the coin is that much of the research done on psychopathy has been done on people who are either in mental institutions or prison, which means that you hardly have solid sampling for research.

Knowing that a site such as celebritytypes have typed among others Bin Laden, Hitler, Khomeini, Mugabe, Arafat, Goebbels, Gaddafi, Castro, Che Guevara, Himmler, Franco, Von Ribbentrop, Idi Amin, Mussolini and Rudolf Hess as feelers the question of whether a feeler can be a psychopath is moot.


*Extraverted Perceivers: Learning Disabled?
 

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Feelers aren't defined as being empathetic. Feelers are defined as making decisions based on their subjective opinions on certain aspects of each choice. This tends to overlap with empathetic people because subjectivity allows one to understand how other people might experience emotions to a greater extent than objectivity can, but it isn't an inherent part of being a feeler. Empathetic feelers are common, but feelers aren't defined by their empathy.

An important thing to note about psychopaths is that they aren't completely devoid of empathetic ability. If you brought a psychopath to a funeral and asked if the people there are sad, the psychopath would still answer "yes". On the other hand, if you asked why the people are sad, the psychopath might get stuck or just recite a memorized answer. Psychopaths are still empathetic, but not to the point of your average feeler.

For example, let's say a "standard" Fe-user and a psychopathic Fe-user are repainting their often-crowded living rooms. The regular Fe-user looks at the colours of paint available and thinks about which emotions they would stir in particular people. Empathy is used to imagine what the different colours would mean to different people. One friend might see red as energizing while another friend sees it as angry. By contrast, the psychopathic Fe-user can't rely on that empathetic ability. Instead of thinking about the colour from different perspectives, the psychopathic Fe-user might take note of the favourite colours of certain people and choose paint based on that. Both are choosing paint based on group consensus, but one knows what happy is and can naturally deduce which colours make people happy while the other needs to go out and observe what makes people happy.

A psychopathic feeler would still make decisions based on society's subjective opinion. They just don't do it as easily as healthy feelers.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
This is the Hare Psychopathy Checklist:


  • glib and superficial charm, (Can exist in both feelers and thinkers)
  • grandiosity (Can exist in both feelers and thinkers)
  • need for stimulation (Can exist in both feelers and thinkers, I'd say that Ne dom and Se dom would most likely show this the most)
  • pathological lying (Can exist in both feelers and thinkers)
  • cunning and manipulating, (Can exist in both feelers and thinkers)
  • lack of remorse (Can exist in both feelers and thinkers)
  • callousness (Can exist in both feelers and thinkers)
  • poor behavioral controls (I'd say this would be the most likely to show up in Ne and Se doms)
  • impulsiveness (Again Se and Ne doms)
  • irresponsibility (Seems like something that would show up in Perceivers more than Judgers)
  • denial (Can exist in people regardless of MBTI type)
  • parasitic lifestyle (Can exist in people regardless of MBTI type)
  • sexual promiscuity (Can exist in people regardless of MBTI type)
  • early behavior problems (I read somewhere that quite a lot of perceivers have such problems*)
  • lack of realistic long-term goals (Seems like something that would show up in intuition + feeling)
  • failure to accept responsibility for own actions (Can exist regardless of MBTI type)
  • many short-term marital relationships (Can exist regardless of MBTI type)
  • juvenile delinquency (More culturally/community related than anything else)
  • revocation of conditional release (A function of other factors within the PLC-R)
  • criminal versatility (Not type related)

I think that to argue something like "can feelers be psychopaths" you're either wrong about what "feeling" as a function is about or are unfamiliar with the diagnostic criteria for Anti-Social personality disorder/Psychopathy. The main "trait" that seems to exemplify the disorder is a lack of empathy, some even argue that a lack of empathy is the cause of everything else.

James Fallon did some very interesting research on the "psychopathic genes" and psychopathic brain patterns, that seem to indicate that there is a "perfect storm" type of psychopath, wherein you get a combination of "warrior genes" and brain abnormalities that lead to certain consequences.

The other side of the coin is that much of the research done on psychopathy has been done on people who are either in mental institutions or prison, which means that you hardly have solid sampling for research.

Knowing that a site such as celebritytypes have typed among others Bin Laden, Hitler, Khomeini, Mugabe, Arafat, Goebbels, Gaddafi, Castro, Che Guevara, Himmler, Franco, Von Ribbentrop, Idi Amin, Mussolini and Rudolf Hess as feelers the question of whether a feeler can be a psychopath is moot.


*Extraverted Perceivers: Learning Disabled?
Very interesting post. I also don't know why you posted the last link, however I will say that it is quite anecdotal, hardly any solid study. My father was an Extroverted Perceiver and excelled in his studies, in fact he did an engineering degree all the way to his masters. He has contributed research and ideas to a few engineering publications as well, hardly an at risk student.
 

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Very interesting post. I also don't know why you posted the last link, however I will say that it is quite anecdotal, hardly any solid study. My father was an Extroverted Perceiver and excelled in his studies, in fact he did an engineering degree all the way to his masters. He has contributed research and ideas to a few engineering publications as well, hardly an at risk student.
It's kind of interesting that you call out the study on anecdotal evidence, then proceed to post the very same thing yourself. The link was tagged with * to show that it goes with the sentence I put on early behavioral problems. To my knowledge there is little data on this in an MBTI context, so I figured it would be interesting to people to see how it shows up in people according to MBTI.
 

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I'm going to avoid the precise psychological definition, and just give an example of how I thinker a feeler can go so wrong. I'll repost what I said in a recent thread about this:

I think that is why so many Fe users can become extremists, like bin Laden and Hitler. Because they vicariously suffer through so many people. All empathy really is, is vicarious suffering. That is what Jung said about Hitler, he said you couldn't talk to Hitler, because you weren't talking to a man, you were talking to a nation. The man has been replaced by the suffering of the German people. He is a medium of it. The man has been lost in it. Consumed in it.

INFJ have the label "protectors", and guys like bin Laden, Hitler, Khomeini, etc. are just as much protectors as Gandhi or MLK. They just have different methods. They care deeply about the plight of the people around them, and become engulfed in the cause to an almost mystical degree. They connect almost mystically with their people, because they ARE their people.
 

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Jung’s exact words about Hitler are pretty spooky. In 1938 after Czechoslovakia surrendered, he said the following: “With Hitler, you are scared. You know, you would never be able to talk to that man: because there is nobody there.” (McGuire and Hull, 1980, p. 134). He elaborated: “He is like a mask, but there is nothing behind that mask” (McGuire and Hull, p. 142). I think Jung is referring to the persona, which is the role we play in society. Some become wedded to their persona; they identify totally with it. This may begin in a benign way. Then eventually they fall into the possession of an archetype associated with the persona. And this too is how Jung describes Hitler: “Identification with an archetypal figure lend almost superhuman force to the ordinary man” (1986 / 1936, para. 1333). A short piece in Personality Type in Depth (April 2014 issue) makes the type connection in such statements: It's called "How to Deal With a Narcissist." Narcissism has some attributes in common with psychopathy but is not the same thing. Nevertheless, one can see the lack of empathy, the grandiosity, and megalomania in both.
 

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I think it's nearly impossible to test as an xxFJ and a psychopath at the same time. Maybe an xxFP, but even that barely makes sense.

In fact xxTJ would probably have the closest traits, especially ENTJ/ESTJs similar to psychopathy. But of course that's not the question you're asking...

I don't believe it's impossible however, if you know anything about the anime/manga Death Note. The character "Kira" would probably be the closest example of a feeling psychopath.

Kira's original purpose in the story is to create a better world, often sacrificing the short-term and present circumstances/individuals for the long-term goal of virtual peace. This strongly indicates he was an INFJ. (His dual personality however, is an ISFJ) This contradicts what a strong Fe should be like, but actually it would make sense because he seeks harmony but cares less about the present and often disposes of anything that gets in the way of his plan (inferior Se, dominant Ni)

So I suppose if you want a case, though it maybe fictional, "Kira" is your best bet. Check out the anime/manga if you haven't, it's definitely not for children.
His initial drive to use the death note was that he was bored actually, when we meet Light he has an internal monologue on how he finds life boring and tedious then he finds the death note and uses it in an experimental manner opting to kill killers because he could easily get away with it; later he adopts a world peace motive to justify his continued use of the death note. I only saw the anime so I know I'm not as knowledgeable as someone who read the manga but it seems to me that the peace thing for awhile was really just his own way of denying his desire to kill. Also his motives weren't so much "I want to keep people safe." as they were "I want to have power." and he really looked down on others besides L who he thought was his match.
 
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This reminds me of a video I saw about psychopaths and a difference in their decision making.
If a train is going down a track and there are two paths, one path has five people tied to the track and the other path has one person tied to the track. The decision to limit causalities would be switch the track so that the train runs over the single victim. According the video most people would easily be capable of this decision as well as psychopaths.
There is another scenario. A train is going down a track and there are five people tied to the track, above the track is bridge. On that bridge a very large person stands. You have the choice of pushing the large person over the edge to stop the train or let the train run over the five people. The average person would be emotionally impacted by the thought of pushing someone to their death, the psychopath would just do it without an emotional response.
Since being a feeler doesn't deal with actual emotions it is possible that a psychopath could have or be taught moral values in a way a feeler would use them but my inclination is that is less likely than not.
 

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This reminds me of a video I saw about psychopaths and a difference in their decision making.
If a train is going down a track and there are two paths, one path has five people tied to the track and the other path has one person tied to the track. The decision to limit causalities would be switch the track so that the train runs over the single victim. According the video most people would easily be capable of this decision as well as psychopaths.
There is another scenario. A train is going down a track and there are five people tied to the track, above the track is bridge. On that bridge a very large person stands. You have the choice of pushing the large person over the edge to stop the train or let the train run over the five people. The average person would be emotionally impacted by the thought of pushing someone to their death, the psychopath would just do it without an emotional response.
Since being a feeler doesn't deal with actual emotions it is possible that a psychopath could have or be taught moral values in a way a feeler would use them but my inclination is that is less likely than not.
I'm not an expert in psychopathy but yes I do believe psychopaths are highly capable of learning the morals of the society they're brought up in especially if their goal is to fit in as best as possible; which some do.

Feelers are better described as making moral judgements than emotional ones so I agree with you there @Grandmaster Yoda it seems like a lot of people forget that. Similarly what introversion and extroversion actually mean with the functions.
 

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I think it would be more like a schizophrenic
Explain?

Feelers (external or internal) are related with morals and values; external feelers put societal norms/rules/values as a high priority and internal feelers go by their own morals. If an Fi held personal values that allowed or demanded they kill certain people they'd do it easily while an Fe could be a killer if they came from a particularly violent environment where they learn hurting others is ideal. I don't think schizophrenia can be discerned based on types at all.
 
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