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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What would it look like for and ESTP to have bi-polar disorder, heart and lung disease, and a history of severe abuse as a child? This has got to change the personality picture a bit. Anybody know any really unhealthy ESTPs?
 

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The Doer King
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You could never type anyone that was like that. You would never get a true type. The only way would have been if the person was completely mentally stable at around 20 years old and then somehow contracted all these problems and issues.

You could maybe get a few letters when he/she was young but as soon as the bipolar condition came in it would completely skew the results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I can see how that would be true. That's why for the longest time I really had no clue. But I know this person inside and out very well, and I have a pretty good idea which traits of hers are inherent and which are aquired as a result of the disease. So, although no one can say for sure what type she is because of her illness, I believe there may be a very good chance that it is ESTP. My knowledge of the cognitive functions and of her led me to this. The type description resonates with her deeply as well.

Oh, and she almost did die, on various occasions and for various reasons. Definitely never been in jail though. :dry:
 

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I can see how that would be true. That's why for the longest time I really had no clue. But I know this person inside and out very well, and I have a pretty good idea which traits of hers are inherent and which are aquired as a result of the disease. So, although no one can say for sure what type she is because of her illness, I believe there may be a very good chance that it is ESTP. My knowledge of the cognitive functions and of her led me to this. The type description resonates with her deeply as well.

Oh, and she almost did die, on various occasions and for various reasons. Definitely never been in jail though. :dry:
I apologize for the comment I made earlier. I had no idea you were talking about a real person here. I thought it was hypothetically speaking. But it's tough to say what she really is. My mom has bipolar and she tested out as an ISTJ, I believe. On her good days, she shows positive signs of that type. On her bad days, it's her showing signs of the disorder, not so much the shadow functions of her personality type. It's hard to really justify any of this because Jung didn't create this based on a person with a disorder.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I apologize for the comment I made earlier. I had no idea you were talking about a real person here. I thought it was hypothetically speaking. But it's tough to say what she really is. My mom has bipolar and she tested out as an ISTJ, I believe. On her good days, she shows positive signs of that type. On her bad days, it's her showing signs of the disorder, not so much the shadow functions of her personality type. It's hard to really justify any of this because Jung didn't create this based on a person with a disorder.
True. But I don't think the inherent personality is completely lost in all mental disorders. You do have to be very discerning about what it is that makes a person do what they do, though. It's sometimes hard to know when it's the disease talking or the person. But on her good, more balanced days, she definitely seems very ESTP.

For example, it's easy for an extrovert to type as an introvert if their disease causes low energy or phobia. But there are many subtle signs that will make the picture come clear even in that situation.
 

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They would probably be in jail or dead
... eventually.

In the meantime they are pimping weak minded girls, having fights with people who look at them "wrong" and otherwise being stereotypical assholes.
 

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True. But I don't think the inherent personality is completely lost in all mental disorders. .
On the contrary, according to most psychological theory the personality becomes more rigid in it's processes.

So an ESTP becomes ever MORE ESTP - i.e Antisocial Personality Disorder.
an ISTJ becomes even more of an ISTJ - i.e Borderline Personality Disorder
an ESFP becomes even more of an ESFP i.e Histrionic personality Disorder
an INTP becomes even more of an INTP i.e Schizoidl personality Disorder

etc etc.


It makes sense to step back and understand what a personality disorder is.

They are described as behaviors that go against recognized social norms.
i.e Social disorders is sort of not fitting in multiplied by 100.

So certain environments matched with certain personalities can almost guarantee personality disorders.
For example they will almost always be more prevalent in high population density areas and society's of extreme conformity.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
On the contrary, according to most psychological theory the personality becomes more rigid in it's processes.

So an ESTP becomes ever MORE ESTP - i.e Antisocial Personality Disorder.
an ISTJ becomes even more of an ISTJ - i.e Borderline Personality Disorder
an ESFP becomes even more of an ESFP i.e Histrionic personality Disorder
an INTP becomes even more of an INTP i.e Schizoidl personality Disorder

etc etc.


It makes sense to step back and understand what a personality disorder is.

They are described as behaviors that go against recognized social norms.
i.e Social disorders is sort of not fitting in multiplied by 100.

So certain environments matched with certain personalities can almost guarantee personality disorders.
For example they will almost always be more prevalent in high population density areas and society's of extreme conformity.
That actually makes some sense to me.

I love this person very much, she is like a sister to me. But I tend to be extremely forgiving and also unwilling to see bad in people. It's hard for me to accept that some people really are so selfish that they will screw you over to get what they want. But this has happened with this person. I usually rationalize it or ignore it or something. Sometimes it seems like she is being incredibly giving and unselfish, but she usually does it for her own ego or satisfaction. She knows herself and she admits this, but even then it's hard for me to believe it. I've thought in the back of my mind before that she could be dangerous maybe, not physically, but in other ways. I just don't want to think about that though. I've also seen a lot of good in her and I'd rather focus on that. She is capable of unselfishness I believe.

So, antisocial personality disorder? Yeah, maybe. She's been through a lot, and it would make sense that it has warped her. But as with all disorders, it must be on a spectrum starting with mild and ending with severe. Hopefully if she is like that she's on the mild end.
 

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... eventually.

In the meantime they are pimping weak minded girls, having fights with people who look at them "wrong" and otherwise being stereotypical assholes.
This sounds exactly like someone I know :unsure: Sometimes I'm tempted to ask him "Does all this really make you happy?" but I really rather not start shit with him. He's touchy. (He is ESTP btw)
He doesn't really stay around anyone for very long. Hell, I'm surprised we're even still talking right now.
The way he treats people is really hurtful and impartial sometimes, but he doesn't care a whole lot.
It's like he's looking for acceptance but at the same time, when things don't go his way, he throws a hissy fit and forgets about it the next day.
When he's alone with someone he's known for a decent amount of time too, sometimes he gets really quiet. I think he feels uncomfortable.

I've been through my fair share with him, trying to get closer or show him I really care. Cause I do, very much, more than you could imagine. But it hasn't been easy :sad: We've been through lots.
I've tried a lot of things to show him that I will not judge him or leave him as a friend & he knows. He doesn't accept them very much though. But I really hope someday he will find happiness that'll last.
I don't want to just watch him running around f*cking a different chick every weekend and getting into fights. It's such a shame too, cause he has great people skills and I know that he can be something wonderful. I'll just keep my faith.
 

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The Doer King
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this is ironic to me, lol. i was severely abused as a child, sexually, mentally, physically and I also had a bipolar parent who had guardianship over me. just because all of that shit happens to you, doesnt mean you are a train wreck. I live by myself, pay my bills on time, manage my bank account, and work full time. I am a functional human being. But I also took it upon myself to study human behavior and interaction... which is probably why I come off as a feeler to a lot of people. I spent a lot of my life trying to understand normal feeler behavior, since my mom was bipolar and god knows what else she had.... Needless to say, most people dont act like her. :p


So I don't know what a unhealthy ESTP would look like, but I had all of the odds against me to be normal..
 

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On the contrary, according to most psychological theory the personality becomes more rigid in it's processes.

So an ESTP becomes ever MORE ESTP - i.e Antisocial Personality Disorder.
an ISTJ becomes even more of an ISTJ - i.e Borderline Personality Disorder
an ESFP becomes even more of an ESFP i.e Histrionic personality Disorder
an INTP becomes even more of an INTP i.e Schizoidl personality Disorder

etc etc.
I had a long conversation with someone not too long ago about my observation/theory that xSTPs are more prone to having APD than other types. It's an idea I've been chewing on for quite a while now, so having someone else mention the connection of xSTP and APD is interesting.
 

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The Doer King
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
this is ironic to me, lol. i was severely abused as a child, sexually, mentally, physically and I also had a bipolar parent who had guardianship over me. just because all of that shit happens to you, doesnt mean you are a train wreck. I live by myself, pay my bills on time, manage my bank account, and work full time. I am a functional human being. But I also took it upon myself to study human behavior and interaction... which is probably why I come off as a feeler to a lot of people. I spent a lot of my life trying to understand normal feeler behavior, since my mom was bipolar and god knows what else she had.... Needless to say, most people dont act like her. :p


So I don't know what a unhealthy ESTP would look like, but I had all of the odds against me to be normal..
Even though the ESTPs I know have emotional problems, what you described about yourself seems very typical to me. I've noticed that my ESTP friend is stronger than me. She's a survivor. She seems to be able to cope with so much more than I ever could and keep functioning mostly normally.
 

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I thought that was well known. John Oldham matched that up years ago.

Oldham's Personality Styles
Scary.


this is ironic to me, lol. i was severely abused as a child, sexually, mentally, physically and I also had a bipolar parent who had guardianship over me. just because all of that shit happens to you, doesnt mean you are a train wreck. I live by myself, pay my bills on time, manage my bank account, and work full time. I am a functional human being. But I also took it upon myself to study human behavior and interaction... which is probably why I come off as a feeler to a lot of people. I spent a lot of my life trying to understand normal feeler behavior, since my mom was bipolar and god knows what else she had.... Needless to say, most people dont act like her. :p


So I don't know what a unhealthy ESTP would look like, but I had all of the odds against me to be normal..
Omg Seek. I had no idea you were an ESTP. You are totally right, I wouldn't have guessed. I think you have balance. That is cool. :cool:
 
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