[vocalist]

Relations of Benefit between psychological ("personality") types

These relations are asymmetrical. One partner, called the Benefactor, is always in a more favourable position in respect to the other partner who is known as Beneficiary.

The Beneficiary thinks of the Benefactor as an interesting and meaningful person, usually over-evaluating them in the beginning. The Beneficiary can be impressed and delighted by their partner's behaviour, manners, thoughts and their ability to easily deal with things that the Beneficiary conceives as complicated. When partners are together, the Beneficiary involuntarily starts to ingratiate themselves with the Benefactor, trying to please them without any obvious reason. In the worst cases this starts from little things and then becomes bigger until the Beneficiary realises the foolishness of their situation.

The Beneficiary can see the weakness of the Benefactor, wishing to help their partner to strengthen themselves. Because the strongest point of the Beneficiary is the weak and unconscious point of the Benefactor, the Beneficiary is convinced that they are able to help. However, when the Beneficiary tries to help, the Benefactor usually refuses the help without any good explanation. The Beneficiary usually listens to every word the Benefactor says but there is no feedback, the Benefactor can not hear the Beneficiary. This may be sometimes unpleasant and even irritating for the Beneficiary.

The Benefactor accepts the Beneficiary as somebody who is lower in rank or social position and often undervalues them in the beginning. The reason for this is that the Benefactor feels that the Beneficiary needs something from them, that special something that only the Benefactor can provide. Therefore the Benefactor naturally finds themselves in an advanced position in respect to the Beneficiary, but are at the same time willing to encourage and take care of the Beneficiary.

Relations of Benefit may appear even and conflict free. Usually it is the Benefactor who initiates the contact. Partners can even feel some kind of spiritual connection between them. However, relations last only as long as the Benefactor has something to give and the Beneficiary has need of it. If this major condition is no longer fulfilled, relations enter quite an unpleasant stage of their development. The Beneficiary may begin ignoring the Benefactor completely or they may start to accentuate too many of the Benefactors inability, provoking arguments and quarrels. Finally, when the Benefactor is in a superior position to the Beneficiary, it can work quite well, but not when it is the other way round!

source: Relations of Benefit between psychological ("personality") types

 

[GreenCoyote]

NOOO!!!!

socionics!
what are you doing...

get the holy water out, call the exorcist!

someone please, these socionics demons are leaking through into our MBTI reality...

NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

don't just stand there. moderators please!!!!
save us all!!!!!

:crazy:

 

[GreenCoyote]

Ok. on a more serious note.
speaking in socionics terms only.

I need a disclaimer because otherwise people will get confused/upset.

but I don't really feel benificiary relationships or relationships of supervission are that healthy unless there are multiple parties invloved.
like more friends or also...

if the two people have common intrests FOR LIFE!
or...

they are sexually attracted to each other.

 

[Resolution]

Wow... so that explains what happened in that relationship...

:dry:

Thanks for the link.

 

[vocalist]

Ok. on a more serious note.
speaking in socionics terms only.

I need a disclaimer because otherwise people will get confused/upset.

but I don't really feel benificiary relationships or relationships of supervission are that healthy unless there are multiple parties invloved.
like more friends or also...

if the two people have common intrests FOR LIFE!
or...

they are sexually attracted to each other.

My husband and I definitely fit the bolded qualification. And, of course we are also attracted to each other (obviously, hehe).

So, the Relation of Benefit is apparently what we have, me being the INFJ Benefactor and him being the INTP Beneficiary. While parts of the Relation description fit, there are other parts that just are not true in our case.

When I first had him read the description and told him that it was supposed to be us, he did not like the sound of it at all. We talked at length about what it might mean for us, though, and how we could continue to make the relationship a positive thing instead of a negative.

The thing is, I love the idea of being able to support and enrich my partner. I do not consider my husband to be inferior to me, except in one point-- and that is that he has a hard time tuning in to his and others' emotions.

Looking at the functions in this type of relationship, I've come to the understanding that the only reason I am put in the Benefactor role and he in the Beneficiary, is that INTP Inferior function is Extraverted Feeling, which is my Auxilliary function and my Judging preference. But just because I'm really good at helping him tap into his Extraverted Feeling, that doesn't mean that there aren't things I can gain from him in return.

He gives me a role model of patience. He strives to be prepared for anything (practically speaking). He is genuine and straightforward when it comes to expressing his opinions. These are qualities I greatly admire.

So, while at first glance the Relation of Benefit may seem doomed, I do believe it can make for a very good relationship under the right conditions and with the right personality types.

I will say, though, that if I were paired with an ISFP-- who is supposed to be my Benefactor-- I would have a very hard time with that. Not because I would resent the help, but because as an iNtuitive I just would not likely have much in common with a Sensor.

So, maybe this sort of relationship is more likely to turn out well if both parties are iNtuitors or both Sensors, since then it is more likely that they will have common interests.

The Beneficiary thinks of the Benefactor as an interesting and meaningful person, usually over-evaluating them in the beginning. The Beneficiary can be impressed and delighted by their partner's behaviour, manners, thoughts and their ability to easily deal with things that the Beneficiary conceives as complicated. When partners are together, the Beneficiary involuntarily starts to ingratiate themselves with the Benefactor, trying to please them without any obvious reason. In the worst cases this starts from little things and then becomes bigger until the Beneficiary realises the foolishness of their situation.

The Beneficiary can see the weakness of the Benefactor, wishing to help their partner to strengthen themselves. Because the strongest point of the Beneficiary is the weak and unconscious point of the Benefactor, the Beneficiary is convinced that they are able to help. However, when the Beneficiary tries to help, the Benefactor usually refuses the help without any good explanation. The Beneficiary usually listens to every word the Benefactor says but there is no feedback, the Benefactor can not hear the Beneficiary. This may be sometimes unpleasant and even irritating for the Beneficiary.

The Benefactor accepts the Beneficiary as somebody who is lower in rank or social position and often undervalues them in the beginning. The reason for this is that the Benefactor feels that the Beneficiary needs something from them, that special something that only the Benefactor can provide. Therefore the Benefactor naturally finds themselves in an advanced position in respect to the Beneficiary, but are at the same time willing to encourage and take care of the Beneficiary.

Relations of Benefit may appear even and conflict free. Usually it is the Benefactor who initiates the contact. Partners can even feel some kind of spiritual connection between them. However, relations last only as long as the Benefactor has something to give and the Beneficiary has need of it. If this major condition is no longer fulfilled, relations enter quite an unpleasant stage of their development. The Beneficiary may begin ignoring the Benefactor completely or they may start to accentuate too many of the Benefactors inability, provoking arguments and quarrels. Finally, when the Benefactor is in a superior position to the Beneficiary, it can work quite well, but not when it is the other way round!

Key for Above: Blue=True for us. Green=Not True.

I want to comment on the Bolded part...This doesn't make sense to me. The INTP's strong point is Ti, which is Tertiary for INFJ-- how does that make it my "weak and unconscious point?" Wouldn't my weak and unconscious point be Se?

 

[GreenCoyote]

also this is a description of a realtionship useing personalities from te socionics system.

so make sure to check that you both are the right type.
typically INFJ and INTP in MBTI transfers to INFp and INTj in socion.

look up the relationships of INFp and and INTp and as well as INFj and INTj

one of those might, more accuratly describe your realtionship.
just because socion is so confusing and such...

the first is Comparative relations between psychological ("personality") types (comparative relations)

the second is Look-a-like relations between psychological ("personality") types (look-a-like relations)

 

[GreenCoyote]

I would say that you two are probablly the Look-a-like pair.

so look into that one.
let me know what you think

 

[vocalist]

First, I did get the right Types the first time. INFp=INFj and INTj=INTp. So, no confusion there

Actually, the look-a-like relationship does sound a lot like my husband and me. The comparative, not so much...

 

[vocalist]

So, if we're more like the Look-a-Like relation, does that mean that I could actually be an INFP? (because there is no way my husband is an ISFJ) Or can it just mean that I have very well-developed Fi and Ne shadow functions (which I do, even though they're not my natural preferences) that help me to relate better with my INTP than if these functions were less-developed?

 

[GreenCoyote]

I want to say I was think more you were INFj (socion)

the empath.
you gave me a lot of information on how you and your husband feel.

plus I am in a beneficiary relationship and it is pretty um... interesting, but doesn't sound like you and your husband.
you sound more like my relationship with my look-a-like.

that is the great thing about socion. you can use the realtionship's they talk about over the actaul individual types.
I do believe personality is more about relationships, for why would we need personality if to not attract other people?

also. look-a-like types i find are more successful than the descriptions online because partners have really good communication and also tend to be really comfortable with each other. only problem is the tend to be less likely to mobilize each other into action.

anyway. I hope this helps.

 

[vel]

First, I did get the right Types the first time. INFp=INFj and INTj=INTp. So, no confusion there

Actually, the look-a-like relationship does sound a lot like my husband and me. The comparative, not so much...

I read the INFp and INFj profiles and I am still an INFj in socionics not an INFp.

The profiles supposedly don't quite correspond to MBTI and require some translation, at least this is what I heard. However, it is also possible that a whole bunch of people mis-type themselves with MBTI. Socionics seems to give more down to earth profiles include more specifics, so perhaps an INTJ with MBTI finds himself an INTp in socionics just because he mis-typed himself with MBTI. And then people come to think that INFJ in MBTI = INFp in socionics. I dunno, I haven't studied this system yet but reading INFp and INFj profiles I can say I am still INFj in socionics and my INFP friend fits the INFp description pretty well.


Socionics INFj - The Empath

INFjs have a very characteristic dispassionate facial expression. This is often reminiscent of the depiction of saints and martyrs from early Christian icons. Their faces convey the feeling that their soul is suffering even when it is not. INFjs faces are often perfect ovals but can be rectangular in shape as well. Their noses are usually straight and slightly elongated, but not prominent. - yes, some time ago my mother made a comment that I look kind of like people painted on the icons in religion that i was born in, at the time she made this comment i was surprised and had no idea what she was talking about - at the same time she always reprimanded me for looking like this because it doesn't fit stereotypical ditzy socially extraverted traditional girly girl stereotype

INFjs do not show intense positive emotions, instead they simply smile (yesh lack of Fi). All their facial expressions openly reproach nefarious happenings (that's Fe in working). The same can be noticed in their intonation. In many cases INFjs have a slim, ascetic figure. Their movements are often quite harsh (this is SP wannabe in me) although not lacking mobility. INFjs with more fuller figures are less mobile and active. When walking, INFjs may keep their feet close and parallel to the ground, maintaining a short distance between each step.

INFjs are generally very modest, which is also noticeable in their choice of clothes (yes don't want to catch too much attention, heightened self-awareness). However from time to time they may wear something very flashy according to the latest fashion especially is noticeable in males (inferior Se sometimes takes over, especially if I am in a good mood). INFjs prefer to observe people for sometime before making contact in order to identify social hierarchy in a group (Fe in workings again). Normally INFjs do not show initiative when making contact for the first time.

INFjs can be very touchy and this may strain the easy atmosphere of a conversation (erm, more like rather slow too respond at times, that other people translate as touchy, dominant intuition trait). Sometimes they adopt a monotone speech pattern that can snuff out all playfulness in others (may be too heavy/pessimistic/realistic for others). INFjs have a special ability to listen to people and as a result they are often asked for advice or sympathy (the counselor stereotype). They never push people away and are always prepared to listen for as long as it takes to make others feel better, even if they theoretically have better things to do. INFjs are always ready to help friends in difficult life situations. They care not with words but with real actions (service-oriented expression of love).

INFjs do not really make good cheats or frauds (I just remember that tomorrow I'll have to look at myself in the mirror and day after that too). This however, does not stop them from trying sometimes (ehehehehe). And even if they do, they are likely to feel pretty bad about themselves afterwards. This gives INFjs a reputation as naive and impractical people (that's our Ti). INFjs are very conscientious in their work (and the perfectionist Ni streak). They do everything carefully, paying great attention to the quality of their labour. INFjs demand cleanliness and order. At home they tend to keep everything tidy, carefully storing their belonging, especially females INFjs. They like a calm and measured style of life and therefore try to prepare and anticipate everything beforehand, often making them quite reliable.

INFjs know how to establish peace between conflicting sides. They take a neutral position in the conflict, often being fired upon from both sides. They rarely push, shout or show aggressiveness. Instead they punish offenders by completely ignoring them (yes i practice tactical ignoring at times, though not always to punish sometimes i just randomly lose interest) until they realise their mistakes and apologise. INFjs do not like to project themselves: when everybody works, they work too, when everybody rests, they rest too. INFjs often cannot stand violence, conflict and graphic depiction of injuries.

vs

Socionics INFp - The Romantic

INFps mainly have slim figures, however well-built INFps are not that uncommon. Their gait is usually graceful and full of poise as they like to project an image of self-worthiness (they value themselves as individuals greatly and life self-expression, this is dominant Fi). Their eyes vary from large to small, however if they are isolated a characteristic pattern emerges. Narrow eyes give the impression that the person is smiling whereas wider eyes convey a feeling of curiosity.

During conversation INFps have a tendency to maintain eye contact and to touch their interlocutors hand. They often have a very noticeable shy grin that appears when they worried or excited, or when someone focuses other's attention on them. (i refer to this as giving an impression of being flighty, kind of impish)

INFps have a very good understanding of harmony and know well how to successfully combine clothes and accessories, resulting in their characteristic, elegant appearance. Sometimes they may give the impression that they are somewhat foppish (i think they sometimes have an issue with not being taken as seriously as they wish to be). This applies to both male and female. INFps show interest in a varied range of the unusual and original. They are also inclined to small talk (they definitely talk more than me and sometimes can say totally random things). It can sometimes prove difficult for others to hold INFps attention during interaction. They may unexpectedly disrupt a conversation by commenting in such a way as to give the impression that they are not following the subject. This can confuse or puzzle others. (I'm guessing this is Fi-Ne)

INFps enjoy interesting or humorous anecdotes and stories. They often recall and share notable episodes from their own life experiences. In situations where they are required to give a answer they often delay the inevitable until the last moment even if they have reached a decision by evading and camouflaging their intent. INFps are inclined to make empty promises, always finding excuses to justify their lack of responsibility. They like to make others aware of their lack or practicality (inferior Te I guess, they do try to push it away sometimes, their pragmatism, like they don't have it). However, INFps have a good instinct for commercial and business matters showing great flexibility. This quality coupled with their ability to choose reliable deputies helps them to maintain a firm grip on positions of power.

INFps have the ability to positively console people who are upset or worried by helping them to look to the future with optimism (that's a Fi-Ne combination again, sympathy yielded by Fi and optimism of Ne). With strangers INFps behave gallantly and tactfully, showing good manners and education. However among friends and family they can be very up front sometimes behaving frivolously (hehe true). They enjoy baiting others in a playful manner in order to create an easy and tension-free atmosphere. At home INFps can be very frivolous and capricious, showing great stubbornness in getting what they want, sometimes creating dramas and scenes. These emotional outbursts are usually short and disappear without consequences. Generally they have very flexible emotions which they control consciously. (yes they appear to go through a great variety of emotions internally, especially when they are alone and introverting, to the contrary i experience most emotion when i am extraverting)

INFps are usually uneconomical in financial matters (hence the romantic head-in-the-cloud stereotype, but those who have embraced their Te can be more practical than INFJs with our Ti). They find it difficult to refuse their whimsical desires. This can often lead them into financial difficulties and can result in them having to borrow money if they do not have sufficient money reserves (i think a trait common to Ne-types that they can spread themselves thin financially at times). They like an extravagant style of life which is why their demands often outweigh their resources. INFps more than any other type are inclined to marry because of wealth instead of love (sadly so, when I asked my INFP friend what she was looking for in her boyfriend, size of salary was one of first things she mentioned). INFps will often accumulate their complaints in order release them all in one go in an appropriate situation. In fact, people who show concern about INFps health and well being and who listen to their problems are very much appreciated.

 

[kateykinz]

Socionics confuses me because I relate very well to the IEE descripton, probably moreso than the EII. And I can't work out what my ISFJ husband is on it.

 

[SarahWilliams]

two things:

1) socionics is crazy talk
2) if you start relying on things such as mbti types, or zodiac signs to determine compatibility... then perhaps, just perhaps, there is something else affecting your relationship that is causing you to rexamine it.

 

[Susanna]

Wow, You guys are so interesting. Makes my head spin your level of depth in these types.

 

[Jwing24]

I think it's not my thing. For anyone else it's not my business.

 

[Filigeedreamer]

I found that I had charicteristics of both INFJ and INFP on Socionics, but more in common with INFJ.

I just enjoy being a flouncy creature now and then, and I enjoy dressing up. Yet a lot of the time I walk about rather expresionless, until I put on a particular mask, or I am with people who know me well.

Sometimes I am not taken seriousely, but that's more me not wanting to be, I play dumb sometimes, and some of my learning difficulties make me look air headed/flighty. I'm certainly impish though, I just have a practical side to even me out, and it cuts through that jarringly at times.

 

[vel]

So, while at first glance the Relation of Benefit may seem doomed, I do believe it can make for a very good relationship under the right conditions and with the right personality types.

I have been in Supervisor relationship with my ex who was ENTP and ENTp by socionics as well, which I suppose is similar to Beneficiary/Benefactor. At the time I certainly did not feel like I was a Supervisor In fact I felt he nagged me more than I nagged him - he was much less conflict averse than me. But come to think of it now it was more like he was launching in many different directions and I had to reign him in, a few times even prevented him from doing unethical things. We did seem like really good friends.

This relationship is not totally one-sided as is stated in that description. What Supervisee grants to Supervisor is a sort of a sense of freedom, lightness, optimism. It is alike Supervisor setting up barriers and Supervisee always trying to get through them. Though it can be stressful, but as a result internal world of Supervisor can get enriched. You just have to pick your Supervisee correctly. I have met several of these Supervisees and they react very positively to me, but I just shy away from them.

With ISTp INFjs are supposed to have activity partner relationship. Says these kind of relations are easy to start and partners experience sort of elation from each other.

I will say, though, that if I were paired with an ISFP-- who is supposed to be my Benefactor-- I would have a very hard time with that. Not because I would resent the help, but because as an iNtuitive I just would not likely have much in common with a Sensor.

According to the chart here Complete relationship chart between psychological ("personality") types it is INFJs that are benefactors to ISFPs. It is something that I have found myself feeling before with ISFPs, sort of like a protectiveness around them, though I haven't known many people of this type.

I want to comment on the Bolded part...This doesn't make sense to me. The INTP's strong point is Ti, which is Tertiary for INFJ-- how does that make it my "weak and unconscious point?" Wouldn't my weak and unconscious point be Se?

Nobody exactly knows, but what I have noticed with MBTI is that people tend to get attracted to those who use their tertiary and inferior functions as their dominant or auxiliary.

Theory runs that our dominant and auxiliary function is what we use most often, and tertiary and inferior functions are actually in conflict with dominant and aux ones. If you think about is Ni resists the pull of Se to try new things. Fe resists the cold and calculating ways of Ti. However having good use of tertiary and inferior functions makes one into a better rounded person, especially if you know which situations to apply these at. Personality disorders are related to people putting too much focus on certain functions and not enough on others. And I think being with people who have good control of these helps you personally develop these areas. Hence the draw we feel towards people with Ti and Se. Se can be a bit more scary than Ti though, because it is our inferior, as such I get along better with ISTPs than ESTPs.

 

[vocalist]

According to the chart here Complete relationship chart between psychological ("personality") types it is INFJs that are benefactors to ISFPs. It is something that I have found myself feeling before with ISFPs, sort of like a protectiveness around them, though I haven't known many people of this type.

Actually, I believe you've got it backwards. A Ben> B, so ISFj (or ISFP) would be Benefactor to INFp (or INFJ)

A is Down and B is Across...

1) socionics is crazy talk

May be. I take it all with a grain of salt. I find it all very interesting and thought-provoking, but at the end of the day, it's not a hangup. My relationship with my husband will still be the same as it was before I looked at Type relationships.

2) if you start relying on things such as mbti types, or zodiac signs to determine compatibility... then perhaps, just perhaps, there is something else affecting your relationship that is causing you to rexamine it.

Not really. I've been looking at all the different Relationship interaction descriptions. I find it all very interesting, and can take parts of it that I think apply and reject the rest. I have a very good relationship with my husband, whether or not Socionics agrees, and nothing external is going to change that. I am making an objective study of it is all. But I do realize it is all theory (albeit scarily accurate at times), and not true science to be taken at face value.

 

[vel]

Actually, I believe you've got it backwards. A Ben> B, so ISFj (or ISFP) would be Benefactor to INFp (or INFJ)

That's what I was stating in my very first post in this thread that I read through socionics profiles and that last letter reversal does not seem to hold true. I compared the socionics profiles to profiles of several friends I have typed by MBTI and they correspond letter for letter. My INFP friend sounds like socionics INFp and the ISFP guy I have known sounds like ISFp in socionics not ISFj. I relate to profile of INFj not INFp.