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Discussion Starter #1
It only matters to people who care about having a title.

What defines you? Strip away jobs, clothing, cars.

Without having to answer "What do you do for a living?"

Can you actually tell me who you think you are?

I'm free without the constraints. I'm not meant to live in this world, I never was and when
someone tries to hammer my circle shape into a triangular opening, I will get stubborn.
I will not fit.
I'm meant to live without chains and shackles. I will not wear your slave suit and tie.
Not to be cool, not to make a statement. Doing so makes me into someone I'm not.
 

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Being a person is being able to express idea. Ideas takes physical form in the world, so the world is born out of idea and idea are born out of the world. Stripping away the world to find a deeper idea leaves us only with a poorer world. You can't escape physicality and you can't define yourself with what you don't have, what you don't agree with, or what you don't want to be. Constraints are necessary for the definition of person. A limitless existence is a meaningless existence. Confinement is home.

Being an INFP, for me, is a fight for freedom, not the unlimited. The unlimited has no limits, it is useless. Life is only limits, humans are only limits. The limits of knowledge, of sight, of body, of time. Everything we do as a reaction to limits, thus diversity itself grounded in limits. Freedom needs limits. Total freedom is the freedom of all limits, rather than the limitless. The unlimited is an endless array of limits.

My job, my car, my family, my clothes are all manifestations of idea. They add to the diversity of character, they do not confine it. Accusing them for limiting your existence is a mistake. It is we, ourselves, who put ourselves in the circle or the square, and we, ourselves, who can step in and out of them as much as we wish.

Touché? :wink:
 

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I'm a girl that cares too much and wears her heart on her sleeve.
I'm always searching for something,I'm always
looking for improvements.
I want Love and I want to be loved.
I'll search untill I find the love I need.
I don't make judgements.
I'm honest and Open.
I want to inspire and help change the world.
I want to find someone that can know me fully.
I'm Stubborn.
I want to live an adventure I want to go everywhere and observe everything and everyone.
I want life at my fingertips.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Being a person is being able to express idea. Ideas takes physical form in the world, so the world is born out of idea and idea are born out of the world. Stripping away the world to find a deeper idea leaves us only with a poorer world. You can't escape physicality and you can't define yourself with what you don't have, what you don't agree with, or what you don't want to be. Constraints are necessary for the definition of person. A limitless existence is a meaningless existence. Confinement is home.

Being an INFP, for me, is a fight for freedom, not the unlimited. The unlimited has no limits, it is useless. Life is only limits, humans are only limits. The limits of knowledge, of sight, of body, of time. Everything we do as a reaction to limits, thus diversity itself grounded in limits. Freedom needs limits. Total freedom is the freedom of all limits, rather than the limitless. The unlimited is an endless array of limits.

My job, my car, my family, my clothes are all manifestations of idea. They add to the diversity of character, they do not confine it. Accusing them for limiting your existence is a mistake. It is we, ourselves, who put ourselves in the circle or the square, and we, ourselves, who can step in and out of them as much as we wish.

Touché? :wink:

First of all, this isn't a god damn competition.

Secondly, being confined isn't a home, you can live off of the grid and NOT be confined by bullshit cars and jobs and surviving.

Being poor gives you creativity. Being rich leaves you with no room to be creative at all. You should really understand that I am an exception, and so are many other people out there. You don't question, you just accept what is popular.
 

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Being a person is being able to express idea.
Well, thats one thing that humans are capable of.

Ideas takes physical form in the world, so the world is born out of idea and idea are born out of the world.
Actually no, they don't always take physical form. Many of them only exist in abstract forms, in imagination, and theory.

Stripping away the world to find a deeper idea leaves us only with a poorer world.
Actually everything you are about to claim is meaningful to you, came from people who are the thinkers, not the provers (you), and had to come from the imaginative and abstract, so that you could then exist purely in a world of forms without coming up with the ideas to create them. If not for people who couldn't find those deeper thoughts and meanings, you wouldn't have this world of spectacle to hide in.

My job, my car, my family, my clothes are all manifestations of idea.
Accusing them for limiting your existence is a mistake. It is we, ourselves, who put ourselves in the circle or the square, and we, ourselves, who can step in and out of them as much as we wish.
These are all things that were created and defined, to create the stream, that was already flowing -before- new independent thinkers were thrown into it, and forced to -try- to swim against the flow. If you would rather go with it, and let these things define you, that is fine, but don't claim that there is something inherent truth about human nature in your way.

They add to the diversity of character, they do not confine it.
That is exactly what they are doing - confining it. Not everyone's character is defined through other people's creations.

Nope.
 

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"Most people are not even aware of their need to conform. They live under the illusion that they follow their own ideas and inclinations, that they are individualists, that they have arrived at their opinions as the result of their own thinking - and that it just happens that their ideas are the same as the majority. The consensus of all serves as a proof for the correctness of 'their' ideas. Since there is still a need to feel some individuality, such need is satisfied with regard to minor differences; the initials on the handbag or the sweater, the name plate of the bank teller, the belonging to the Democratic as against the Republican party, to the Elks instead of to the Shriners become the expression of individual differences. The advertising slogan of 'it is different' shows up this pathetic need for difference, when in reality there is hardly any left." - Erich Fromm
 

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"Most people are not even aware of their need to conform. They live under the illusion that they follow their own ideas and inclinations, that they are individualists, that they have arrived at their opinions as the result of their own thinking - and that it just happens that their ideas are the same as the majority. The consensus of all serves as a proof for the correctness of 'their' ideas. Since there is still a need to feel some individuality, such need is satisfied with regard to minor differences; the initials on the handbag or the sweater, the name plate of the bank teller, the belonging to the Democratic as against the Republican party, to the Elks instead of to the Shriners become the expression of individual differences. The advertising slogan of 'it is different' shows up this pathetic need for difference, when in reality there is hardly any left." - Erich Fromm
This is SO spot on. And a perfect reply to that earlier post.
 
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I was suppose to write about society and comforming/non conforming....
Instead I thought I was suppose to write about who I am inside...
I screwed up :X

I will say living off the grid has always had an appeal to me.
I love how they all work together as a community and really care for each other
and grow their own food/make their own energy.
It seems like a great and simple way to live.
 

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I'm a girl that cares too much and wears her heart on her sleeve.
I'm always searching for something,I'm always
looking for improvements.
I want Love and I want to be loved.
I'll search untill I find the love I need.
I don't make judgements.
I'm honest and Open.
I want to inspire and help change the world.
I want to find someone that can know me fully.
I'm Stubborn.
I want to live an adventure I want to go everywhere and observe everything and everyone.
I want life at my fingertips.
mmm I feel the same way :)
 

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I like the look of the Anglo-Saxon way of life. Everyone lived together in community groups of about 8 houses. There was a weaving hut and a great hall to meet together to tell stories of Beowulf gathered around the fire. You would grow crops, look after animals, all out in the country. Lovely, except for if the Vikings came pillaging etc. But it sounds nice apart from that!
 

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First of all, this isn't a god damn competition.
Whoa whoa, I thought it was pretty obvious that my post was a bit of a joke. I thought the last sentence and the smiley gave it away pretty clearly. If I offended you, I'm sorry for that.

But just to make this a bit of an interesting discussion perhaps, let me just say I don't believe in idealism of idea to be any greater than idealism of matter (materialism, if you like). The things surrounding us do not come with preset meaning, and even if they did you have the power to reset them. To me, being unique is about appropriating the existing world and all its meanings and social conventions and distort them for your own purpose. For example: a post-punk band dressing up in white-collar suits during their performance did so not to associate with the middle class, but to recontextualize their signs. The clothes became their identity, they used what was available in society to point out a path to change. Conforming is something you do in your head, either by telling it to yourself or letting others tell it to you.

Regarding the discussion concrete/abstract, abstract is always material in the sense that they're tangible phenomena. A building to express the idea of architecture is only another way of communicating this idea than words, spoken or written. The difference is that words aren't very interesting beyond their message. A building, on the other hand, can both hold the idea and be something more. It can be appropriated by its visitors. In fact, the same happens when a reader reads an theoretic essay - he appropriates it based on previous experiences. My personal preference is for the material world instead of the abstract, because the material is always more, it is richer, it has more meanings, more ambiguity, more diversity. An idea doesn't really become anything more than an idea. And because all ideas must first and foremost come from the material world (as children, the world is first, ideas are later), stripping away the physical from the abstract only leaves us with a poorer experience of the world.

Abstract ideas and definitions are like virtual reality; they may be clearer at expressing the character of a thing, place or event, but they sacrifice diversity and tension for that clarity. I'd much rather be living in the real world as opposed to a simulated one, as the simulated one is but a caricature of the real world. In the same way, I'd much rather be a material character than an abstract, idea-based one, because the abstract character is only a caricature of the material. Taking away to find identity is in fact loss of identity, to me. When you've finally reduced yourself to one word, you'll realize this word is not your own creation; it was borrowed from ages of human communication.

By "confinement is home", I mean that it is up to every person to choose his place of living. You can't live outside of something, because that outside is still inside something else. You wear your ideas like they were clothes, that's a fact to me. Coming up with your own ideas isn't different from sewing your own clothes. I don't believe that you can go against any flow or be free of the confinement of society. All those limits are limits that you impose onto yourself, and by stepping outside of those limits you only impose new limits onto yourself. What's your 'car'? What's your 'job'? You're really just swapping something for something else.

To finish off: what I'm describing here is a description of my idea of life. My actual life is something I don't bother to lock into ideas. For that I have the material world and how I interact with it, and I can do so in whatever way I see fit. Freedom is the ability to move between confinements on a whim, not finding a particular confinement to live in that just happen to be so different to the rest of society that it is mistaken for freedom.

I've already been in your shoes. I used to think the same way, but this is what I arrived to after a few more years of thinking. Maybe you arrive at something else, I don't know. The reason it might seem like I'm arguing is because I've had this argument with myself for way too long. So, again, sorry if I offended you in some way.
 

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Being poor gives you creativity. Being rich leaves you with no room to be creative at all.
I really don't agree with this statement, all, 'the rich kids,' I've met throughout my life have been exceptionally skilled and creative at their art. Charles Baudelaire, Oscar Wilde, and Alfred, Lord Tennyson were hardly poor, yet they were extremely creative individuals. I really don't believe there is a negative correlation between creativity and being rich.
 

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I have to say I agree for the most part. What I do for a living doesn't matter to me and I don't think it should matter very much because there's a lot more to life and more to people than that. But to each their own. My own value system says one thing; others' say that your job and title is about the only place to evaluate self-worth and satisfaction. I don't think that's what anyone here is doing, but I think that's the kind of thing you¨'re talking about...Point being, it's alright, you're in good company!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I really don't agree with this statement, all, 'the rich kids,' I've met throughout my life have been exceptionally skilled and creative at their art. Charles Baudelaire, Oscar Wilde, and Alfred, Lord Tennyson were hardly poor, yet they were extremely creative individuals. I really don't believe there is a negative correlation between creativity and being rich.

Mm, I did not specify this. When I wrote that, it was about myself, and some others.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Whoa whoa, I thought it was pretty obvious that my post was a bit of a joke. I thought the last sentence and the smiley gave it away pretty clearly. If I offended you, I'm sorry for that.

But just to make this a bit of an interesting discussion perhaps, let me just say I don't believe in idealism of idea to be any greater than idealism of matter (materialism, if you like). The things surrounding us do not come with preset meaning, and even if they did you have the power to reset them. To me, being unique is about appropriating the existing world and all its meanings and social conventions and distort them for your own purpose. For example: a post-punk band dressing up in white-collar suits during their performance did so not to associate with the middle class, but to recontextualize their signs. The clothes became their identity, they used what was available in society to point out a path to change. Conforming is something you do in your head, either by telling it to yourself or letting others tell it to you.

Regarding the discussion concrete/abstract, abstract is always material in the sense that they're tangible phenomena. A building to express the idea of architecture is only another way of communicating this idea than words, spoken or written. The difference is that words aren't very interesting beyond their message. A building, on the other hand, can both hold the idea and be something more. It can be appropriated by its visitors. In fact, the same happens when a reader reads an theoretic essay - he appropriates it based on previous experiences. My personal preference is for the material world instead of the abstract, because the material is always more, it is richer, it has more meanings, more ambiguity, more diversity. An idea doesn't really become anything more than an idea. And because all ideas must first and foremost come from the material world (as children, the world is first, ideas are later), stripping away the physical from the abstract only leaves us with a poorer experience of the world.

Abstract ideas and definitions are like virtual reality; they may be clearer at expressing the character of a thing, place or event, but they sacrifice diversity and tension for that clarity. I'd much rather be living in the real world as opposed to a simulated one, as the simulated one is but a caricature of the real world. In the same way, I'd much rather be a material character than an abstract, idea-based one, because the abstract character is only a caricature of the material. Taking away to find identity is in fact loss of identity, to me. When you've finally reduced yourself to one word, you'll realize this word is not your own creation; it was borrowed from ages of human communication.

By "confinement is home", I mean that it is up to every person to choose his place of living. You can't live outside of something, because that outside is still inside something else. You wear your ideas like they were clothes, that's a fact to me. Coming up with your own ideas isn't different from sewing your own clothes. I don't believe that you can go against any flow or be free of the confinement of society. All those limits are limits that you impose onto yourself, and by stepping outside of those limits you only impose new limits onto yourself. What's your 'car'? What's your 'job'? You're really just swapping something for something else.

To finish off: what I'm describing here is a description of my idea of life. My actual life is something I don't bother to lock into ideas. For that I have the material world and how I interact with it, and I can do so in whatever way I see fit. Freedom is the ability to move between confinements on a whim, not finding a particular confinement to live in that just happen to be so different to the rest of society that it is mistaken for freedom.

I've already been in your shoes. I used to think the same way, but this is what I arrived to after a few more years of thinking. Maybe you arrive at something else, I don't know. The reason it might seem like I'm arguing is because I've had this argument with myself for way too long. So, again, sorry if I offended you in some way.

First of all, you've never been in my shoes, ever. Secondly, stop comparing ideas to material possessions. They are nothing alike, at all. I have nothing else to say to you.
 
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