What you do for a living doesn't matter.

Oliver said:

Being a person is being able to express idea.

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Well, thats one thing that humans are capable of.

Oliver said:

Ideas takes physical form in the world, so the world is born out of idea and idea are born out of the world.

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Actually no, they don't always take physical form. Many of them only exist in abstract forms, in imagination, and theory.

Oliver said:

Stripping away the world to find a deeper idea leaves us only with a poorer world.

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Actually everything you are about to claim is meaningful to you, came from people who are the thinkers, not the provers (you), and had to come from the imaginative and abstract, so that you could then exist purely in a world of forms without coming up with the ideas to create them. If not for people who couldn't find those deeper thoughts and meanings, you wouldn't have this world of spectacle to hide in.

Oliver said:

My job, my car, my family, my clothes are all manifestations of idea.

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Oliver said:

Accusing them for limiting your existence is a mistake. It is we, ourselves, who put ourselves in the circle or the square, and we, ourselves, who can step in and out of them as much as we wish.

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These are all things that were created and defined, to create the stream, that was already flowing -before- new independent thinkers were thrown into it, and forced to -try- to swim against the flow. If you would rather go with it, and let these things define you, that is fine, but don't claim that there is something inherent truth about human nature in your way.

Oliver said:

They add to the diversity of character, they do not confine it.

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That is exactly what they are doing - confining it. Not everyone's character is defined through other people's creations.

Oliver said:

Touché?

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Nope.

timeless said:

"Most people are not even aware of their need to conform. They live under the illusion that they follow their own ideas and inclinations, that they are individualists, that they have arrived at their opinions as the result of their own thinking - and that it just happens that their ideas are the same as the majority. The consensus of all serves as a proof for the correctness of 'their' ideas. Since there is still a need to feel some individuality, such need is satisfied with regard to minor differences; the initials on the handbag or the sweater, the name plate of the bank teller, the belonging to the Democratic as against the Republican party, to the Elks instead of to the Shriners become the expression of individual differences. The advertising slogan of 'it is different' shows up this pathetic need for difference, when in reality there is hardly any left." - Erich Fromm

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This is SO spot on. And a perfect reply to that earlier post.