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Queen of Hearts
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Discussion Starter #1
So I've been looking at Enneagram and am hoping to find my type - I have a couple theories but I would rather hear your unbiased opinions, especially as my grasp on the theory is frankly minimal. Thank you ahead of time for your help :)) Also, I've decided to bold my answers rather than the questions individually -- sorry if it's difficult to read that way.

Prerequisites

What age range are you in?

20 years old, female

Any disorders or conditions we should know about?

No

Main Questions

1. What do you think your life is about? What drives you in life? This can be something like a goal or a purpose, or anything else that comes to mind.

Life is about...fully appreciating it while it's here? Gathering experiences, making the right choices, being a good person? I guess my top answer would be that life is about learning. I wouldn't say that's what drives me, though...I'm more driven, generally, by the idea of doing what God intends for me (sorry for bringing up religion, but I don't know how to answer without mentioning it). Specifically, I hope to get married (to the right person, meaning we will morally and emotionally support each other) and have children. I also want a fulfilling career but I feel more like that's something I'm 'supposed' to want rather than something I naturally desire. I do want to help people and, I guess, 'feel like I'm making a difference'. I also want to overcome some problematic personality traits I have; for instance, I can be too concerned with social status and too self-involved.

2. What were you like as a kid?

I thought of myself as very independent, maybe as 'different' or even better than the other kids. I spent a lot of time pretending (that I was a character in a book, for instance). I was seen as polite and quiet. I concentrated a lot on trying to be good at something (for instance, at piano or gymnastics) or just good in general. I had a temper and found it difficult to behave at home, but I never got in trouble at school. I was pretty loyal to my closest friends and family. I doted on my little brother . I spent a lot of time playing school with him ('teaching him' how to read or play piano, etc.) or moralizing to the poor thing. Brother.jpg



3. Describe your relationship with your parents. Does anything stand out about the way you interacted?

My relationship with my mother has always been pretty good; we get along quite well mostly. I can't say things are great with my father. He worked a lot when I was younger, and we got along fine, but fairly distantly, but when I was 13 or so he started working at home so we saw a lot more of each other, and there was a lot of tension. I felt that he was very critical of me and that it was difficult to communicate with him without causing conflict, and I was hurt that he would be dismissive of my interests. Even today we get along very rockily: I never know what to say to him that will not offend or cause him to criticize, and I find it very difficult to open up to him or trust him.

4. What values are important to you? What do you hope to avoid doing or being?

Moral integrity, purity, selflessness, empathy...I want to avoid being materialistic, too concerned with how people view me, or to fall into the dirty world of money and status symbols and such. I was walking through the mall the other day and I'd been planning on going shopping, and I was feeling really...impure, and impulsive and ready to spend hundreds of dollars on some piece of jewellery or something..and then suddenly everything looked so sickening, like all the merchandise up for sale, all of it being turned around for profit...but actually it was a great feeling that I was sickened by it, it was 'liberating'. I feel the most pure, like, up in the mountains, I really like the Bavarian Alps for instance, I feel so close to nature and clear-headed and such.

5. Aside from phobias, are there any fears that characterized your childhood? Have they continued into the present day, or not, and if not, how have you dealt with them?

No, I was not really a fearful child. When I was about nine or so, I began to be fearful of getting older and of dying, and I became really aware of time passing, so I was often trying to 'cling on' to my youth. I still feel that, of course, but I don't think it's more than for most people.

6. a.) How do you see yourself?

I'm...I don't know. Sometimes I think I'm great, sometimes I think I'm the worst person ever. I kind-of hate myself, but I love the person I want to be, I really approve of my own personal goals. I annoy myself a lot of the time; I can be very needy and just rather obnoxious. Sometimes I (hopefully irrationally) feel that everyone is judging me critically and that I'm holding everyone back.


b.) How do you want others to see you?

I honestly haven't thought of that. I guess I want people to think of me as clever, or interesting, or mysterious? Maybe? I mean, I'm always imagining that people are desperately, sell-their-soul in love with me, I'd be ok if everyone was)) I like it when I feel people are seeing me as a girl, I always feel like there's a difference in languages where the genders are clearly marked, even in German I'm 'die Klara' (not my real name) so it's feminine like that, or in Russian especially...I hate the unisex feel I get sometimes in English.

c.) What do you dislike the most in other people?

Depends. The people who annoy me the most have this 'oneupmanship' thing going on, they pretend not to understand a joke and then act really holier-than-thou and such about it...

7. Which habit do you most automatically act on? Rank the following habits from most to least automatic, on a scale of 1 (most) to 3 (least).
3 a.) Work for personal gain with more concern for self than for others.
2 b.) Strive for a sense of tranquility in yourself and the world around you
1 c.) Decide what is right for the betterment of something or someone else.

8. Where does the wandering mind take you? What provokes this?

Daydreams (maybe I'm meeting my true love, or becoming famous, or having to take to the streets, or something), thoughts about books I've read, thoughts about stories I'm writing, imagined conversations with people I know, etc. I have a lot of spare time to think, so almost anything.

9.What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?


As I said above, being in the mountains, or else close to nature, otherwise socializing, having gatherings, going to the theatre, etc. Being at church, as well, but it has to really feel like a proper church. What makes me feel at my worst -- spending too much time on the Internet, especially if it's just indiscriminate, random browsing, really the feeling of doing nothing and wasting my time, feeling my mind crowded with meaningless things.

10. Let's talk about emotions. Explain what might make you feel the following, how they feel to you or how you react to the emotion:
a.) anger
I don't feel angry that often. Maybe a feeling of defensiveness, like someone insulted someone I love or some idea that's dear to me...but even that's not quite anger.
b.) shame
Like, I've done something I'm embarrassed by...it happens frequently. I guess an extreme example would be if, say, I got drunk at a party or something. I would apologize profusely and then try my best to deny the shame, to myself and partly to others.
c.) anxiety
I'm not really sure. I don't get this very often either. I kind-of thrive on chaos and there's seldom something I want more than for something interesting to happen, so...I do get nervous though. I tend to prepare a lot, to clean, etc.

11. Describe how you respond to the following:
a.) stress
I try to put everything in order
b.) negative unexpected change
It takes me a while to adjust, sometimes I might feel 'cheated' or something.
c.) conflict
I try to get everything out on the table, and then deal with it.

12. a.) What kind of role are you naturally inclined to take in a group? Why?
Sometimes, the leader, sometimes, a mindless minion. It depends on how much I care and how comfortable I am. If I am comfortable, the leader.
b.) If put in power, how do you behave? Why?
I think I do well, because I'm certain of my role. I do a lot of delegation, I'm thinking of a school project, for instance, and I lead the discussion.
c.) Do you tend to struggle with others who have authority over you? Why?
Not usually, I'm generally content to do as they ask. If I dislike them I will usually try to subvert their authority in a passive-aggressive, subtle sort of way.

13. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?
Sometimes I feel more aware of the intricacies of a social situation (i.e. 'those two are awkward around each other or 'that person is hiding something') and I am often very aware of other people's emotion, if someone is upset around me, even if I don't know them well, I will feel it in the pit of my stomach. I often think it's my imagination, but many times I will later discover that I was right, there was something wrong or off or whatever.

14. Comment on your relationship with trust.

I don't get the big deal. I never got the point of 'trust falls' and all that. To me it seems silly to say, "You can't be friends with someone if you can't trust them". To me it seems that some people are not trustworthy, but I don't consider it a big factor. Like, ok, I can't trust that person with secrets, or even with money or moral decisions...I don't see why that would affect our relationship. That's part of knowing and understanding them.

15. Briefly: What religious and/or political beliefs do you have? Do you think they influenced your responses in this questionnaire?

I'm Catholic, fairly conservative (at least on some social issues). I'm sure that influenced my responses in some sense; i.e. that's part of who I am so it affects how I view the world -- but it's not like the Pope was controlling me like a puppet at any point when I was taking this questionnaire, or at any other point in my life.

Optional Question (due to personal nature)

Discuss an event that has impacted your life significantly; more importantly, how you responded to it.

I honestly can't think of anything.

Extra Questions

Which of the following temptations do you find yourself acting upon the most? (And briefly state why)

- To constantly push yourself to be “the best” (except sometimes i just decide to be 'the worst')
- To be without needs, well-intentioned
- To replace direct experience with concepts
- To have an extreme sense of personal moral obligation
- To think that fulfillment is somewhere else
- To cyclically become indecisive and seek others for reassurance
- To overuse imagination in searching for yourself
- To avoid conflicts and asserting yourself
- To consider yourself entirely self-sufficient


What's something you are: a.) thankful you have My life! b.) wish you could have? Why? More self-discipline. I lack it.
 

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Applying micro expression and facial archetypes theory to your picture, you look like a social 2, 251 tritype, "the Mentor" in Fauvre's terminology. I am not saying you are necessarily a 2, but it is an avenue worth exploring. Now, reading your text, I would add social 4w5 as another direction of research. That is just an opinion. Good luck in your research! :)
 

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Queen of Hearts
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Discussion Starter #3
Applying micro expression and facial archetypes theory to your picture, you look like a social 2, 251 tritype, "the Mentor" in Fauvre's terminology. I am not saying you are necessarily a 2, but it is an avenue worth exploring. Now, reading your text, I would add social 4w5 as another direction of research. That is just an opinion. Good luck in your research! :)
Can you link me to something about the facial archetypes theory? It sounds interesting.
 

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Queen of Hearts
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Discussion Starter #4
Applying micro expression and facial archetypes theory to your picture, you look like a social 2, 251 tritype, "the Mentor" in Fauvre's terminology. I am not saying you are necessarily a 2, but it is an avenue worth exploring. Now, reading your text, I would add social 4w5 as another direction of research. That is just an opinion. Good luck in your research! :)
Can you link me to something about the facial archetypes theory? It sounds interesting.
 

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@Paralax2000,can you do me?:kitteh:
Just visitor message me

Btw @Oswin,I'm gonna come to this later,already read it though and I have some ideas :)
 

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Can you link me to something about the facial archetypes theory? It sounds interesting.
Actually, Katherine and David Fauvre have applied and developed facial archetype and body structure theory to the Enneagram. They sell their books and trainings on their Website (Enneagram Tests, Instinctual Subtypes, Tritype, and Enneagram Type Reports!) and you can really develop an understanding of the theory on their Facebook page (https://fr-fr.facebook.com/Enneagram.Explorations), as they gave many examples (do not forget to go through the notes on the left hand side of their FB page). For instance, a 2 often has a heart-shaped face, sometimes with high cheekbones, like you. They most commonly have the Server, the Sage or the Artisan archetypes. Etc. The Fauvres give also visual examples on their (very interesting) Pinterest page: https://www.pinterest.com/enneagram/

Sterlin Mosley and Aaron Addonizio are professionals too. They were trained by the Fauvres among others. Here is their Pinterest Page: https://www.pinterest.com/insightllc/ and website: Insightful Innovations
 

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Here is a tool to explore the relation between MBTI and enneagram: JavaScript Tool for Exploring Typological Space
For instance, statistically, 2s are usually ESFJ or ENFJ, but a significant part of them are ENFP. 4s are usually INFJ or INFP, but some of them can be ENFP (they are a minority). Now, if we look at enneagram types who can be ENFP, we find: 2,4,6,7 and 8. etc.
 

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I suggest looking at SO 126/125... I get the impression of someone with a strong sense of moral obligation. You have facial features of a 2 and 1 (server soultype) as @Paralax2000 mentioned.

I also want a fulfilling career but I feel more like that's something I'm 'supposed' to want rather than something I naturally desire. I do want to help people and, I guess, 'feel like I'm making a difference'. I also want to overcome some problematic personality traits I have; for instance, I can be too concerned with social status and too self-involved.
Strong indications of SO 126

-Sharp language (1)
-Focus on doing the 'right thing', 'criticism' and themes of 'purity' (1)
-Ambivalence (6)
-Endomorphic body type can be indicative of the 'heart type' (2)
I would predict your MBTI to be more like INTJ rather than INFP
 

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I'm not sure about core 1,but I would say you have 6 and 2 in the tritype.
@Quang,why INTJ?
 

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Queen of Hearts
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Discussion Starter #11
@Living dead suggested that I link this thread http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/492938-could-i-entp-enfp.html ... I talk incessantly about myself there, I will copy a couple longer posts as well in case you don't want to click. Sorry if it makes a horrible monster post.



I thought ESFJ fit so perfectly, but I've been going over everything and I'm thinking no, it doesn't make sense. I'm confident I use Ne and Si, but I'm starting to think that I have lower-level Si and am a Ne-dom, or possibly aux. I thought I was a Fe-dom, but now I'm thinking that could have been wishful thinking, and I could even be a Fi user. So in short I'm at square one again.

I feel like my Si is limited to an aesthetic or sentimental feeling. I'm not good with details, not good at following a schedule or doing things the established way (although I would like to)...I make lists and then I don't act on them. Whereas my Ne, maybe, is stronger...when I was originally being typed people said I used a lot of Ne, and I'm thinking they may have only said SJ because I admitted to some conservative views. So I will try not to accidentally bias you in that direction again.

As for Fe . . . no, my people skills suck. Thinking it's either lower-level or I'm just a Fi user. Like, I just found out my dad's been mad at me for a week. Did I notice? No. I literally messaged my mom like, "Did you think it was odd that Daddy didn't pour me any wine at dinner?" and she said, "Oh, well he's still mad at you for [this thing I barely even remember]. Do I care? Not really, I just hope we don't have to have some sort of horrible conversation about our feelings and why-is-our-relationship-so-bad when I wasn't even invested in the problem in the first place and it'll just make things more awkward. My strategy? I shall ignore it, and hope he just forgets. Which sums up my strategy with dealing with tense situations altogether.

Anyways, none of the forms looked like they would really target the right sort of questions so I'm going to kinda make up my own questionnaire as I go trying to forget I know anything about typing and being as objective as possible.

How were you as a child? (How did you perceive yourself/the world? How did others describe you?)

I guess I kinda thought of myself as a loner, partly because I felt independent and didn't really like the other kids and their Britney Spears and PowerPuff girls and partly cause they didn't really like me. From teachers I either got "She's so quiet and polite and shy"...which I was or "She's so fiercely independent such an individual"...which was possibly true? Like, one of my mom's favorite stories about me is how I always liked to wear skirts, but my one friend told me that was old-fashioned and silly, and I should wear pants or she wouldn't be friends with me or something, but...I just kept wearing skirts. My thoughts: a. I probably over-dramatized (to my mother and to myself) how much my friend wanted me to wear pants, and b. it was never a big deal for me. I wore skirts, that was my thing, I wouldn't make any sense if I was wearing pants. I also lived in my head a lot, I would pretend pretty constantly, I'd write stories and talk about them a lot. I also liked to do something I thought of as 'just thinking': I remember telling my mother once when she'd interrupted my thoughts, "Ok, if you see me making this face, that means I'm just thinking and you shouldn't interrupt me" and I was surprised and disappointed when she didn't know what that meant. I also wasn't very good at behaving (at home); I was always in trouble. I'm don't really remember for what, but I spent a lot of time in grounding. I really wanted to be good but it seemed the harder I tried to be good the more trouble I got into. Punishment was also not really a factor for me (actually, that still holds). It was like, I was going to do the thing I was going to do, and if there was a punishment associated with that action that was really too bad. But I struggled with my own conscience and wanted to be able to face that cleanly. I would confess every slightest thing I did wrong to my mother.

My dad often called me out for being 'sullen' which was partly maybe just that I have somewhat of a sullen face and a melancholic disposition (by which I mean, that I don't really find bright, confident cheeriness attractive but I prefer a smokier, more sombre, aesthetic). But I was also kinda...like, I didn't really like to dance, or run about, and I didn't like shopping or partying or any of that until quite recently, and it definitely feels like an acquired taste.

What kind of student were you?

Not a very good student. I wasn't really able to concentrate on things I wasn't particularly interested in. The first two weeks of school, I would be a perfect Hermione Granger with colored-coded everything and I would study even in the shower, but then the nice back-to-school-everything-is-perfect feeling would wear off and I'd go back to basically treading water, and freaking out and giving up when something went wrong. I also don't think I realized grades had a bearing on life success until like the last two years of high school, I honestly thought the whole point was just to learn stuff, so I had been thinking of it as a game, which might explain why I did so badly and did not take things seriously. But even after I did figure it out, I did not do well -- in fact, I did even worse. In college, I started a lot of courses but only finished a couple of online ones and one that I went to with a friend. It was kinda like...in high school, it had been fun, I'd had friends (who I actually saw), and the whole school had felt like a little tribe, and so there was this competition, and all these excuses to hang out with people (Study parties!) But in college it was just me against this random coursework, and it was weird and depressing and I couldn't seem to deal with living by myself, I'd just not get out of bed, eat nothing but frosting and like things from vending machines, I couldn't muster even the tiniest amount of energy to do anything. I have no idea why I'm so unable to function like an ordinary human being, but there it is.

What do you daydream about (as in, your actual daydreams, not 'oh I daydream about repainting those cabinets')

So my novels become incredibly famous and then they get made into a movie, and Tom Hiddleston is cast as one of my main characters (though I can't decide if he'll be Lancelot or Kay because honestly he'd be great as either and he looks more like Lancelot but Kay will require more acting finesse however I can see Eddie Redmayne as Kay based on physical features though I don't like him as much as an actor but I can't see him as Lancelot so probably that'll go to Tom) and of course as the writer I have to sit there while they're filming even though I stupidly sold them literally all the rights so they can do whatever they want but Tom wants to check to make sure we're following my wishes so he talks to me a lot and obviously he falls in love with me and after I politely decline several times we get engaged and it's great but then I accidentally reveal some unpopular opinions I have and so the whole world hates me and Tom disagrees with me so I am afraid he will break the engagement but he says no he disagrees with me but that doesn't matter but then I am called to some talk show that is secretly basically the Spanish Inquisition because they are like, "If you continue to hold these beliefs we will boycott your fiance's work and ruin his career" and I'm like "No, why would you do that is this the Middle Ages why is he responsible for my opinion" and they're like, "But it's what we shall do" and I become very upset (in an earlier version of this daydream we were actually married at this point so it was even worse) and they keep going like, "How can we support someone who would marry such a vile creature as you" and then I lyingly reveal that actually he had broken off the engagement so they'd been wasting their time and I leave the talk show and secretly return the ring to his hotel room/apartment and then sneakily fly off to, I think France for some reason, and enter a monastery or just buy a small cottage or something and his heart is of course forever broken but he goes on with his life after angrily defending me and marries and all that.

What do you fear? (Besides the obvious 'death' or very specific phobias like 'dogs because I was mauled by one as a toddler': something specific to you, yet general in scope)

Being lost and not being able to find my way home again. I once had a dream that I was trying to walk home from school, but two of the streets started to go in a loop and I couldn't get past a certain point, and the only way to get out of the loop was to walk into this unknown path of streets that were very forbidding. And the whole time I was just thinking like, "Maybe my mother will come and pick me up" but she wasn't going to.

Sometimes I even feel it when I'm literally walking through the streets, but it's more of a symbolic fear, of being alone in the world with nowhere to touch down on. Having no buffer between me and the world? Kinda like, in How I Met Your Mother, there's a beautiful scene after Marshall's dad died and Marshall says, "I miss my Dad, Ted. I miss him so much. When I was a kid, we would spend the summers in the upper peninsula and every year we would only get to the cabin until the middle of the night. So, it'd be pitch black, in the middle of the woods and I could never see anything in front of the headlights. But I always felt so safe, because my Dad was driving. He was like some sort of superhero, he could just see way out into the darkness... And now he's just gone, and it's pitch black, and I can't see where I'm going. I can't see anything."

I guess I'm kind-of scared to be in the metaphorical driver's seat. For that matter, the literal driver's seat as I'm not a very good driver...;)

Learning new things: do you do it, how do you do it, why do you do it, when do you do it, etc.

I value learning new things for myself. I wouldn't impose this as a value on everyone: to me it seems silly that a farmer should have to learn to love Shakespeare or understand the subtleties of calculus. But I do so, because I want a cohesive working understanding of the world, to create a large palette for myself to paint in. I feel like God set up this whole wide world and universe for that matter for us to appreciate and learn from and it's almost a crime to just let it pass by. For instance, one of the things I have the most success and interest in learning is foreign languages and cultures. My goal in this respect is more directed towards the fact that it frustrates me not to know a language, it feels like this blockage I want to clear out. And I don't feel you can properly understand a culture until you know the language (Sorta like: Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam.) And I want to understand every culture, I want to be able to go anywhere and feel at home, or perhaps to feel homesick for everywhere at once :)) And I can collect these feelings and things that only certain countries or certain places have, and then I have those too and my understanding of life is that much deeper. Like, I have "Russian-fields-on-an-autumn-evening" and "A-quiet-afternoon-in-Munich" but I don't have 'Chinese-mountains-in-the-fog' or 'A-hot-day-in-Kenya' and that disappoints me. I'm almost a purely self-motivated learner: I'm not very good at learning things without genuine motivation. I also do best learning a whole bunch of separate stuff at once: right now I am learning the basics of string theory and Thai (literally only because of the pun), Hebrew, I'm reading a book about Daily Life in Tang China, Remembrance of Things Past, and the Confessions of St. Augustine, and I rotate between those things in a station-y sort of way. Except it would be a more effective system if I didn't have Internet access since I keep falling into the void of vaguely amusing Tumblr posts and Buzzfeed articles...

Which 'person' are you in your friend groups and relationships?

Either the quiet, insecure, submissive one or the bossy, overbearing one. In my family I seem to get labelled as the contentious one who will never be satisfied even though I do not see myself as starting conflicts, but rather avoiding them. Unfortunately, with my nearest and dearest I am too often the 'needy' one which is really something I am terrified of being which is probably why I am so quiet and submissive with people I am less close to. It is a cliche, but I am always 'the one who loves more' which makes me super cautious in strengthening a relationship, and I always kinda feel like I am secretly tricking them into being friends with me by acting all reserved and like some little fragile, indifferent flower and then by the time they find out who I really am it'll be too late for them.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___

If you don't mind, I want to ask a few questions I find particularly relevant at distinguishing high-level Ne. I'm not going to bias the way you might answer by giving you too much detail, because I want your raw answers to these questions:

1. What is your relationship to authority?
2. What is your relationship to tradition? What about family customs?
3. What do you believe in? How fixed are you in your beliefs? Why?
4. What are you passionate about? How do your passions and interests today compare to those 5 years ago? 10 years ago? When you were a small child?
5. What would it take to get you to drop everything and start over somewhere else at a new job in a new city? What would you need to be sure of before taking the position?
1. Difficult to say. I think I am deferential and even like having authority there 90% of the time but if my wishes clearly go against the wishes of authority I stop caring about the arbitrary authority of certain people. Basically it all depends on whose judgement I trust the most. Usually I assume that if someone is an authority there is just reason for it, but if it's clear there is not, then in my opinion they stop being an authority and I become the new authority. That said, I will still be respectful and it annoys me to no end when people treat authority figures, or people are accorded a natural amount of respect, such as politicians/religious leaders/etc. like dirt. For instance, I feel like no matter how you feel about a country, its leader, etc. you should show the signs of respect that are acknowledged (for instance, bowing, using the right titles, etc).

2. I like it. I like, for instance, how repeating the same Christmas traditions sort of makes Christmas stand out and ties you to all these past (and future) Christmasses. Sometimes I will try to install 'new traditions'. I just think they're great. You have this thing to look forward to, it unites you with other people and with the past, and if it's not just a family tradition, it ties you in with the rest of the world dialogue. For instance, I've always liked this scene in Fiddler on the Roof:

(If you don't want to click, it shows Tevye's family praying together, and then other families praying, and it is like they are all part of the same song...it's really beautiful)
That said, harmful traditions that are preserved for the sake of tradition are to be avoided. But I understand why it happens, and I would also want to discourage people from discarding a tradition without understanding the deeper meaning behind it. And if it isn't harmful, and isn't serving any purpose..why not?

3. Religiously? Well, I'm Catholic, and I believe in God. Honestly I think of the Catholic belief system as my favorite manifestation/understanding of God, I'm open to Him being understood in different ways by different people. I've even considered changing religions a couple of times, but in the end I decided that Catholicism spoke best to me. I have no problem in saying that Muslims worship God and call Him Allah, or that polytheists see Him in many different attributes, or that scientists see Him in the mystery and symmetry of the universe, and don't personify Him...God is a concept bigger than the human mind, how can there only be one interpretation? It's all being translated for us. But I can't really imagine, or even understand, not believing in any sort of God, not having faith that there's an order, an essential meaning, something personal about the universe. It just doesn't make sense to me. It's like saying color doesn't exist. But I see it, how can it not exist?

If you mean morally, I don't know, there's a bunch of things. I'm constantly trying to consolidate my moral beliefs into a few easy-to-grasp concepts. If I were going to try to do it right now the pillars of my moral belief would be: "Respect for life/gratitude for life -- compassion and selflessness -- pursuit for truth/perfection". Though that's probably a sloppy way of putting things. Specific beliefs I'm usually willing to reconsider but I have some principles that I can't imagine every changing.

4. Passionate? I don't know, right now. Usually I can better say what I was passionate about at one point in my life in retrospect. Usually it's not anything great like being passionate to feed the starving. Like, wow, when I was 13 I was really passionate about Harry Potter and when I was 15 I was really passionate about Phantom of the Opera, when I was 17 I was really passionate about actual opera. But I used to throw myself into things a little more fully than I do now. So I can't think of one defining interest or pursuit that is defining this period of my life.

5. Haha I did this already, big mistake. A year or so ago I decided to be an au pair in Germany on a whim, didn't even do an interview as the family just let me come over. Maybe I was so hasty because I was having difficulty finding a job here. But yeah, that family fired me within two weeks because of literally no reason, so I was stranded and unemployed in a foreign country. It ended up working out ok, I found another position and we got along great (until the kid's uncle broke naked into my bedroom on which cue I fled the country). I'd do it again.

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1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?

Well, I keep feeling like I use Ne more than Si (though I know I use Si). For instance...when I was a kid, I was always pretending. My head was in the clouds 98% of the time, it's my natural disposition to pretend and imagine, and to be frank I'll still do it, I'll want to color my life with the people/worlds in books and TV shows. I'm more idealistic than practical. I also don't feel a Fe-dom. The people I know in real life don't see it, my mother and brother were reading about the functions and they both thought I sounded like an introverted feeler.

2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?

Yearn for? I'm pretty happy with my life actually. I'm frustrated generally because I don't have much of a social life and I feel like my young years are withering away and the next time I blink I'll be a bitter old maid living in some anonymous apartment complex in some anonymous city. But on a daily basis, I am pretty satisfied with my life.

3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.

Ok...so for a period of time in high school, I was crazy on top of things, organized to the extreme, I would come home and study for hours, I had a different kind of tea associated with different subjects, I'd exercise for an hour...I felt like I was being really ascetic and
I was getting good grades and losing weight and just had everything in order. I've tried to replicate that same thing but so far it's been a one-time experience. It was pretty cool though.

4) What makes you feel inferior?

I'm not that pretty and somewhat overweight. And I have some sort of speech problem, I could never properly learn to pronounce certain sounds, so I had to take special classes in school...so I've always been a little terrified that I'm secretly mentally disabled in some way and that everyone's just pretending I'm a normal person haha...I'm not that socially adept either.

5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)

I try to do pros and cons and make lists of what will happen if I do this, etc. but usually it turns out I've had my heart set on one option and will just do that. Last-minute horrible decisions are kind-of my forte.

6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?

Um...making it good? I don't really understand the concept. In a group project situation, like at school...I usually end up either being the leader, surprisingly, since I'm not that forthright in most social situations. But I can take charge of a project, and...yeah, I like to be in control of what's going on. I generally trust my judgement.

7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it?

Ok...my friend and I would occasionally have 'dance parties' where we would dance as some fictional characters we were fond of. It was a lot of fun. I don't really enjoy going to actual clubs or dance parties. I don't really know how to dance and it's just weird and uncomfortable.

8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)

I go to the library, check out like 20 books on the subject, read like maybe two of them...if my interest holds I'll usually then go online and look for more information/look for websites or blogs on the topic.

9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?

Occasionally extremely organized, but usually only fairly organized. I love putting things into an organizational structure, but I'm not terrific at sticking to that structure. However I'm much better at organization/cleanliness than, for instance, my ESTP father, or my INFP friend.

10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?

I try to understand the principles behind it. In my opinion, the facts are always less important than the truth when judging morality. I believe the best society would be one where the laws are based around the ideal, not reality. If the laws are caving to meet the real, than the real is going to become even more lax and utter chaos will result.

11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?

Hopefully both? I know perfectly well this is supposed to be judging Fe vs Fi but I do both.

12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?

I would like to think before speaking but in actual fact I speak before thinking. I prefer one-on-one communication. I never feel like, in group conversations, anyone gets a chance to properly explain themselves and topics end up being skirted over and it just results in general confusion and dissatisfaction. The more people in a conversation, the less common ground and the shallower the pool for conversational possibilities.

13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?

I know it sounds bad, but I jump into action right away. It's more fun; in my experience everything turns out fine and I'd rather be surprised along the way. But words speak more than actions. Words explain someone's thoughts, desires, doubts, and shades of meaning -- actions just explain someone's final decision, which often does not ring true with their actual orientation to life.


14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?

I record my show and go out with my friend.

15) How do you act when you're stressed out?

Oh my God I'm the worst person. I'm terse and I explode at everyone, I make rash, self-destructive decisions (like, once I deleted all the copies of the novel I was writing). But honestly I'm not easily 'stressed out' ... I thrive on stress.

16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?

Obnoxious, shallow, arrogant. Holier-than-thou.

17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?

Yes, but I don't know what.

18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life

I don't know, I haven't been paying attention to them.

19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ?

Mm...talk to my friends; I don't know how they perceive me)

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Ooh, video! Sorry I look weird...

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Ok, here's the thing:

I don't really care that much for socialization. I think I was typing as an extrovert, and particularly as a Fe-dom, because I was lonely and constantly looking for approval...but I think it was more of a case of being in a sort of funk.

Like, just now some friends just contacted me and suggested a meeting time. I accepted, but there was a part of me that was thinking "maybe I can just skip this, go driving out in the countryside, and make up some excuse".

Now, part of that might be that a. I'm feeling really peeved with one of those friends, because her behavior lately has been really bizarre and selfish (more on that in a sec), b. there was one person invited who I'm not a huge fan of, she was always very patronizing and dismissive to me, c. lately I've been feeling (and being) really fat, ugly, not put-together at all...and since I don't see these people all too often, I want to put on a good front. But part of it is literally just, "I'd rather go out driving than spend time with these people"...and they're some of my best friends.

I've been weirdly, for lack of a better word, b*tchy lately. I can't seem to hold it back) Like, my one friend, I've been really frustrated with her because she's dating this guy who's really into her, who's told her he loves her, imagines his future with her...and she's just 'having fun', she told us she was probably going to break up with him, but was still dating him...it seemed really unfair. I publicly posted on her Facebook wall this anecdote about how in Jewish law it's considered wrong to act like you're going to buy something, if you're not...this being of course a thinly veiled metaphor for her relationship with this guy...it was totally unnecessary, especially publicly. I don't understand how she could act this way, and it makes me angry...but as much as I'd like to think that it's just anger on the guy's behalf, it's also sort-of jealousy, since all the guys are falling in love with her right and left and it seems so unwarranted, because this is how she treats them.

I don't mean to sound biased against Fi-users, but I feel like this level of selfishness is really only possibly with Fi. I guess I could view it as a lower-level Fe as well, I'm not sure.

And, like, I feel like I almost prefer people as symbols in my own head, rather than actual people. Like, I will 'fall in love' with people, but I know it's just the idea of them...but I don't mind that much, I'm ok with them just being ideas in my head. And on some level, I care more about completely fictional people than real people. When I was little, I had imaginary sisters as a matter of course. I still do that. People who know me will tell you I'm quite sane, but when I go somewhere new, or stressful, I 'bring along' some fictional character :) Last job interview I had I brought along Niles Crane. The whole time I just imagined he was next to me saying like, "It doesn't matter what they think of you, we both know you're better than them anyhow, we have our own world they don't have any part in..." or is that just the psychotic version of Fe, getting approval from the people in your head?))

I wrote this book-thing when I was younger called The Starless Chronicles, it's mostly total crap but one line I relate to (funny since I wrote it) is: 'Now all my ghosts are here and I can think'. I kind-of feel like that, like I'm just collecting ghosts, collecting people in my head, to make my world complete. If that makes any sense at all.

But, I always feel cut off from the group too, like in all my school photographs you can tell who I am because, here's the group of kids, and here's me two feet away) I look at the people who, like, sit in the back of pick-up trucks and hang around vaguely loitering everywhere looking kinda trashy yet probably having a lot of fun with each other, and I feel really kinda jealous of them. But I know I would never fit in to that sort of scene. Or even church groups, or volunteer thingies...I just usually feel uncomfortable and 'cut off' from the group, for no apparent reason. Or...I always feel kind-of upset at dances or things. Cause I don't really know how to join in, all these people look so comfortable and like they're all connected, but I can't connect.

In other words...I think I'm an introvert)

But it's also like...ok, so my family is away on vacation, I'm alone at home. And, like, every single thing is a chore. I guess it's kind-of like this anyways, but, I'm talking myself through every single step. I'm just constantly thinking -- "What's the bare minimum of what you have to do?" and then saying, 'Well, that's not so hard, you can do it in steps' -- even when it's so simple as changing the cat's litter, driving to work at some time, finding out some phone number and calling someone about information...

Or, like...so I try to write, for some unknown reason because honestly I can't write anything worth anything...but, fine, it's something I have to do. I think of everything in my head, but to achieve the actual writing I have to really manhandle myself. Bribe myself to write, like, every sentence (sometimes it flows and I'm into it, but usually it's like pulling teeth). I'm constantly distracted. I go, like, five words at a time. I don't feel like I'm ever fully invested. Actually, I have to really work to get myself into an invested state ... usually it involves alcohol (which is why I'm kinda tipsy now tbh, I thought I was going to be writing but nope I got distracted by the Internet).

Ok, literally every time I'm on Personality Cafe it's because I turned on my computer to try to write but decided the Internet was easier.

To me this suggests lower Si usage.

But I don't think my Ne ever turns off. I'm always thinking of different, often stupid ideas, wanting to share them, etc. etc. etc.

Ok, I had more to say but I think this post has dragged on long enough. I'm a truly horrible person, I know. I keep thinking if I can find my proper personality type I can sort of try to figure out what my ideal self would be like and work with the right goal in mind. Anyways, those are some thoughts of why I might be INFP (or something else) rather than ESFJ.

^or, like, I just went to the Kindle page for the Starless Chronicles and I only caught about two million grammar mistakes in the little preview it gives you. I feel like a SJ (or most normal people) would do a basic edit before publishing, even it's just self-publishing but I seem to remember just going "Oh good I'm done let me just throw it onto Kindle and be onto a new project" which seems to be fully NP territory.
 

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Queen of Hearts
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Discussion Starter #12
Sorry to pull this out of the basements, but does 1w2 sx/so sound good for me? Any thoughts as to my trifix?
 

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Not sure,I see 7 fix though(but not as core)
 

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Queen of Hearts
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Oh my God why do I keep double posting
I literally have nothing to say here
Just curious if anyone has any objections to core 1
 

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Oh my God why do I keep double posting
I literally have nothing to say here
Just curious if anyone has any objections to core 1
Hi Oswin,

I am testing another approach to typing I called "Reverse Enneagram typing". I need to know the least used enneatypes of an individual to narrow down their possible tritypes. You may have none, 1, 2 or 3 enneatypes that you considerer alien to you. Consider also that "no enneatype" is a valid answer too. So, tell me if there are enneatypes that feel difficult to live by for you and I will see if I can help you determine your tritype :)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hi Oswin,

I am testing another approach to typing I called "Reverse Enneagram typing". I need to know the least used enneatypes of an individual to narrow down their possible tritypes. You may have none, 1, 2 or 3 enneatypes that you considerer alien to you. Consider also that "no enneatype" is a valid answer too. So, tell me if there are enneatypes that feel difficult to live by for you and I will see if I can help you determine your tritype :)
Ok)
8 feels the most alien to me. I do not identify with anything about this type.
Then probably 5. I can relate a little in that sometimes I want to disengage from the world and figure things out, but generally I am always attached and not very objective or relentless in pursuit of truth or anything.
I am not sure what would come next, all the other types have something I can relate to. 6 and 9 are two types that I truly doubt are my core, but I suppose I could see them in my tritype. 4...honestly, the type annoys me, but I can see myself displaying 4 tendencies, particularly melancholy and becoming too analytical or searching of myself...however, I do not value uniqueness nor is 'finding myself' a priority of mine.
 

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Ok)
8 feels the most alien to me. I do not identify with anything about this type.
Then probably 5. I can relate a little in that sometimes I want to disengage from the world and figure things out, but generally I am always attached and not very objective or relentless in pursuit of truth or anything.
I am not sure what would come next, all the other types have something I can relate to. 6 and 9 are two types that I truly doubt are my core, but I suppose I could see them in my tritype. 4...honestly, the type annoys me, but I can see myself displaying 4 tendencies, particularly melancholy and becoming too analytical or searching of myself...however, I do not value uniqueness nor is 'finding myself' a priority of mine.
I designed a table where I linked what people feel as their alien types and their most likely primary tritypes. If 5 and 8 are alien to you, then your most likely tritypes are 361, 469 or 461. The order inside your actual tritype is not specified. It means if your primary tritype is 461, you may be 461, 416, 641, 614, 146 or 164. The same thing for the other primary tritypes. If you told me it was just 8 that felt alien to you and not 5. I would have expanded the list.
 

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I designed a table where I linked what people feel as their alien types and their most likely primary tritypes. If 5 and 8 are alien to you, then your most likely tritypes are 361, 469 or 461. The order inside your actual tritype is not specified. It means if your primary tritype is 461, you may be 461, 416, 641, 614, 146 or 164. The same thing for the other primary tritypes. If you told me it was just 8 that felt alien to you and not 5. I would have expanded the list.
Interesting) Thank you)
 

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Here, I want to go through all the Enneatypes and say my thoughts on them, maybe this will help somehow?

1. Honestly it's my favorite type. I don't know if it's mine; I may just have idealized it. I generally consider 'being perfect' my main goal. But I fall short of this really, really frequently, to the point where in recent years I've just been a big fat lump and do nothing to improve myself. However, self-improvement and purity of character are always my top priorities, eclipsing other goals.

2. Isn't everyone's basic fear to be unwanted and basic desire to be loved? I mean, isn't that the whole point of humanity? I don't associate myself with the 'character' of 2 though. I'm not a huge people-pleaser, I'm not sickly-sweet, I don't live for others. I'm too selfish, in a word.

3. The most 3-ish thing about me is that I have a penchant for status and status symbols. It's definitely a fault, but I really like having stuff that is expensive and tasteful. I want people to think of me on a higher rung on the social ladder -- well, I want to not want people to think of me on a higher rung on the social ladder, but not enough to actually stop. However, I'm not much of an achiever. I don't really 'get' success. It doesn't really bother me.

4. I really, really, don't want to be a 4. I know there's nothing wrong with this type but I don't want it to be mine, and honestly I don't think it's my core -- I'm not that concerned with individuality or identity. But I can be dramatic, moody, introspective, melancholic. But I don't care about being special or any of that.

5. It seems stressful. I will isolate, daydream, invent a fantasy world...but yeah, I don't know, that's all I've got.

6. Kinda relate. I've always felt very comforted by the idea of having someone who would just tell me what to do in all situations; for instance, I've always liked the song "All I Ask of You" which such lines as "I'll guard you and I'll guide you". I like to feel safe and secure and I don't often trust my own judgement. I'm not a big worrier though. I generally assume things will work out.

7. I get bored. I can be very gluttonous and indulgent. I'm not incredibly spontaneous but I like to try to take in as many experiences as possible as I'm always very aware of the shortness of life. I don't think it's my core but I think I probably have it somewhere. Sometimes I just want to party or have fun and I want to avoid the difficult things in life.

8. I hate being in control. I am ok with being controlled by others. I am not self-confident or decisive. I am definitely not confrontational. Don't think I have this.

9. Eh. It's kinda...I'm not that laid back. Peace, stability -- these are nice, but, I don't know. I'm not a pool of water, which is how I imagine 9. I'm more of a fire, or maybe a river. I'm not that grounded and not anti-conflict really. Just...don't relate much. IDK.

Now I'm going to try to express my basic fears and desires without trying to make myself look good or anything of that sort.

Fears: Growing old and not having anywhere to call home, being sent here and there like a leaf on the wind, sleeping under bridges, everyone I love dying, never having children, the arc of my life being cut off, meaninglessly, dying suddenly and without warning, being an old maid, marrying someone who falls out of love with me and divorces me leaving me all alone, and ashamed, even though I still love him, and I do not believe in divorce and I am worried for him if he remarries, as I do believe that what God has put together no man should put asunder, being jilted at the altar, miscarrying, my children dying in infancy, my children having cancer or other diseases and dying in their childhood, my children dying in a car crash, me dying and being unable to care for my children, if I do not raise my children well and they fall into bad crowds and are like strangers to me, and not good people, ok I seem to have a lot of fears related to the fate of my completely fictional children, serial killers, the concept that I am actually mentally retarded and everyone is just humoring me, being unworthy and rejected, basically rejection, travelling to a foreign country for a job and being fired within two weeks because my employer just doesn't like me (that happened), dying far away from home, being publicly humiliated...

ok, I got a little away with myself, my imagination took off. Keeping it there because it might be valuable, but the main fear I have in my life right now is:

What if I missed my boat? What if I am now too ugly, too fat, too old, too lonely, too useless to find love; what if I am already doomed? When I was 16, 17, I was fairly pretty, my personality was all right, I had lots of hopes, I thought I was on the upswing and improving, I thought that in 5 years everything would be worked out, maybe that was my time, maybe if I wanted to marry and have an acceptable life/career/whatever, that was the time (mostly the marrying thing though). And now I don't have anything to offer, I'm no longer really a good person, certainly not a person who anyone could fall in love with, I barely have friends, I don't have social connections (just the dwindling pile of friends), I should be doing young-people things with young-people but instead I am doing retiree things, I will be 30 in 10 years and time is going by faster all the time, I'm going to be old and bitter before I know it.

Desires: I want to turn the corner tomorrow and walk into the love of my life; I want it to be just like "Oh there you are" and I want to skip all the messy dating parts...I want to fast forward to waking up every day next to my husband and taking the kids to school, I want to get old in a comfortable way with woolen sweaters and reading in armchairs and lots of dinner or garden parties, I want to find the place I can pore all my heart into, the place of all my days, my house, my street, all that. I'm ok with dying if I'm not alone and if I don't feel like I should have been somewhere else. I want to go home, I don't want to feel like I'm travelling unless I'm travelling, and I don't want to feel like I'm waiting unless I'm waiting for a package or something. I want to have a little coffee shop I go to every day and know the names of the different coffee people and have the schedules of the different muffins of the days memorized, so I can look forward to 'bran muffin' day or whatever.

Directly, what I want, like, now, is to be beautiful, to be intelligent and well-read, to have a social life, a schedule, regular things to look forward to. I really really miss high school. I basically want my high school years back. I would prefer to have some security, a more regular job that paid better, and I would not complain if I had piles of money or I was successful with my writing and could consider myself a 'good writer' or even just a 'writer' as this would give me a sense of worth and purpose. But right now what I really want is to stop going in circles, and find a sense of purpose and general direction.
 
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