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Discussion Starter #1
'sup.

I'm confused as to my Enneagram type and would love some help.
I'm happy to answer any more questions if needed.



Any and all opinions/comments would be greatly appreciated.
 

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'sup.

I'm confused as to my Enneagram type and would love some help.
I'm happy to answer any more questions if needed.



Any and all opinions/comments would be greatly appreciated.
I am greatly impressed by your confidence in knowing what you are and want. Such integrity I would never say about myself. There is something in me that says, "I don't believe it", though I believe you seem to believe it yourself. It seems like intellectual arrogance to me though at the same time realize that may not be fair to say and I may be wrong. I would have to play your video again to say this better.

I don't know enneagram so I have to leave that to others to guess your type.

You say you are for the truth. How about this? Authority exists and is part of the social structure. Authority can be wrong but at long as it exists it carries power. That power must be respected even if the authority is not. I would look to an authority for what is right about it and keep what is wrong about it to myself until I find a way to respectfully express it to the owner.

Your talk seems exclusively about your views but I'm missing how others see you though I did see you mention it a bit (I forget what it was). That's all that comes to my mind without further study. I hope another can do a better job.

Also why the sunglasses? Are you so holding on to yourself you must keep others out?

My compliments for asking for feedback.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
I am greatly impressed by your confidence in knowing what you are and want. Such integrity I would never say about myself. There is something in me that says, "I don't believe it", though I believe you seem to believe it yourself. It seems like intellectual arrogance to me though at the same time realize that may not be fair to say and I may be wrong. I would have to play your video again to say this better.
I'm not sure what you're referring to here.
I don't "feel" arrogant and I don't feel full of confidence either.
I feel the opposite.

I don't know enneagram so I have to leave that to others to guess your type.
All good.

You say you are for the truth. How about this? Authority exists and is part of the social structure. Authority can be wrong but at long as it exists it carries power. That power must be respected even if the authority is not. I would look to an authority for what is right about it and keep what is wrong about it to myself until I find a way to respectfully express it to the owner.
I disagree.
I vehemently opposed any and all forms of authority and attempts at exerting power.

Your talk seems exclusively about your views but I'm missing how others see you though I did see you mention it a bit (I forget what it was). That's all that comes to my mind without further study. I hope another can do a better job.
I don't even remember that being a question.

Others see me as smart, insightful, friendly, genuine, funny, arrogant and confident.. funnily enough.

Also why the sunglasses? Are you so holding on to yourself you must keep others out?

My compliments for asking for feedback.
Sunnies inside.. hadn't even thought about it.
 

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I'm not sure what you're referring to here.
I don't "feel" arrogant and I don't feel full of confidence either.
I feel the opposite.
I understand. I must be referring to your definiteness and sureity in the way you speak. One could write down your words and there would be no uncertainty as to their meaning. Said another way, your speaking style is confident but your meaning is not. You are confidently unconfident. That stands out for me. When I speak and lack confidence it shows, lol.


I disagree.
I vehemently opposed any and all forms of authority and attempts at exerting power.
Now we have some content to talk about. You say that, but can you back it up with why? Power exists. Does it not? As children it is natural our parents exert power over us and that is good, is it not?



I don't even remember that being a question.

Others see me as smart, insightful, friendly, genuine, funny, arrogant and confident.. funnily enough.
All I have of you so far is an impression of playing your video once. I don't have to be a good judge of character. I never claimed to be but am learning. I say to smart (can't tell), insightful (I have my doubts), friendly (not unfriendly), genuine (about what?), funny (not in the video), arrogant (only about your precision) and confident (yes to your manner of speech; no to your self-doubts because you want feedback).



Sunnies inside.. hadn't even thought about it.
My poor judgment. Are you Austrialian? Anyway we have authority to talk about for content. Just what bugs you about authority? We don't live in this world alone. Everyone carries some kind of authority within them.

I claim to be an INTP. You claim INFJ. INFJs are hard to read for what they are, they say. INTPs can be hard to read for what they are thinking.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I understand. I must be referring to your definiteness and sureity in the way you speak. One could write down your words and there would be no uncertainty as to their meaning. Said another way, your speaking style is confident but your meaning is not. You are confidently unconfident. That stands out for me. When I speak and lack confidence it shows, lol.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean here, are you suggesting the way I speak sounds confident, however if you were to write down my words - their meanings might be unclear?
Your sentence contradicts itself, but that's my best guess lol.
I'm confident with regards to what's in my head, less confident about how it comes out, I feel like I stumble over my words and lose track of my thoughts a little bit when speaking.


Now we have some content to talk about. You say that, but can you back it up with why? Power exists. Does it not? As children it is natural our parents exert power over us and that is good, is it not?
No, I don't believe parents having 'power' over their children is a good thing, and I don't exert 'power' over my daughter.
I contradict myself here - she has a schedule with her naps, and bed-time, and I will enforce that to some degree, however she's very good with these and is ready for them at the same time, every time, basically.

When I say "some" degree, I mean, once it's about 7:30pm (she's in bed at 7pm) then I'll sit with her until she's asleep, if she's not already - in order to get her to fall asleep - read her books etc while she's lying down.
I don't hit her or go on any kinds of power-trips.

I don't recall my childhood very well at all, but I can remember a couple of times my mother attempting to exert power over me and this would obviously be met with disapproval i.e me not doing what I'm told, even when faced with someone much bigger than me who has a weapon.

This might sound unusual, and it's difficult to explain accurately - but when faced with power attempts, and practically any authority figures - I feel brave and confident, like I'm going in to battle.

Police officers are met with someone who will deny literally everything all the way to court, even if it's something as minor as going 2km over the speed limit.

I've lost jobs due to questioning my bosses when they even *attempt* to exert any kind of power over me - an example - I used to work in a call centre, where all calls are recorded - at some point, my team leader sent me an e-mail asking why I didn't do X on a particular call.

I could remember that call, and stated the reasons why I didn't follow the procedure (the caller hung up on me) and I questioned the point of the e-mail as this would be evidenced clearly in the recording.

This was the beginning of the end for me there, as the team leader didn't like it, so I was targeted from numerous angles by numerous people (all team leaders/management) in order to fire me.

I found out later on from a fellow work colleague, that I was proven right - the call was listened to by higher ups, that particular e-mail and the call that spawned it became a hot-topic for a while, and that particular team leader has been demoted (though, still employed..)
Nothing pleased me more, than hearing the news I was proven right and she paid for her manipulative and deceitful actions.

Even with council heads and government figures - I simply oppose them, it's born into me, I can't help it - if I see someone in a shop, or the streets, who is a local member of parliament etc, I think to myself "fucking piece of shit".
There is one exception, and this is a friend of mine who became our local Councillor after I'd known him for a while, he's a great guy and has great, positive, forward-looking ideas for our area.

All the others that I think "piece of shit" about are probably great people with good ideas, but it's the whole power/authority thing that makes me immediately think they're worthless, and not to be respected.

Even the thought of someone applying for a position in one of these jobs, irks me, it makes me think they're slimey little snakes.

Of course power exists, if it didn't exist, how could I oppose it?



All I have of you so far is an impression of playing your video once. I don't have to be a good judge of character. I never claimed to be but am learning. I say to smart (can't tell), insightful (I have my doubts), friendly (not unfriendly), genuine (about what?), funny (not in the video), arrogant (only about your precision) and confident (yes to your manner of speech; no to your self-doubts because you want feedback).
You asked how others see me, and I provided a realistic response based on things I've actually been told, by people I've known for years.
I didn't just pull those words out of a hat.

Understand I am an introvert, 100% introvert, on most tests that provide measurements - I'm simply not going to open up in a way that's going to allow others to see my insightful, funny and caring side - especially not in a video where I'm answering questions - in a sense, submitting myself to others - I'm not a big fan of this.

However, I am truly after some help and direction - I self-type as a 5w4 and understand this is something a lot of people mistype as - I can't stand the thought of being mistyped (likely why I'm always questioning my mbti type, I want it to be the right one beyond doubt) - so, that's why I created the video to try and get some direction.

By genuine, I intend this to be true to myself - that's the way it was intended for me.
This can obviously be a double-edged sword, see: my views on authority. Lol.

My poor judgment. Are you Austrialian? Anyway we have authority to talk about for content. Just what bugs you about authority? We don't live in this world alone. Everyone carries some kind of authority within them.

I claim to be an INTP. You claim INFJ. INFJs are hard to read for what they are, they say. INTPs can be hard to read for what they are thinking.
I am Australian. I did the authority thing above.
I suppose it depends just how trivial we want to get, with regards to authority.

For instance, when my wife throws up a few options for dinner, and I choose one - I suppose in some minuscule way, I'm actually exerting my authority simply by making a choice.
This could break down to me selecting the music for a car-ride.

I understand how ridiculous this could get.

When I think about authority, I immediately think of people actually attempting to exert power, people who are supposedly in positions of power, people I'm supposed to respect for absolutely no reason.
I.E policeman, army people, politicians etc you get the gist.

I'd like to separate first aid people from this, as I respect them, and understand their position - so if I were to be at a scene where something bad has happened, and an ambulance arrived and the paramedics told me to do this or that, I'd do it because it's 'serious' and they know what they're doing - but the key thing here, the only reason I respect them - is that I appreciate and understand that they're trying to help.

I've thanked numerous paramedics and nurses/doctors over the years for what they do, when I see them out.
I admire these kinds of people, and if we put say, a paramedic and my favourite musician side-by-side, I'd be more in awe/starstruck by the paramedic.

So my views on authority and power contradict themselves a lot, lots of exceptions etc, and I'm perfectly comfortable with that.

I prefer INFJ via dichotomy very clearly - cognitive functions gets unnecessarily messy for me - because I value Si, a lot, in others - I feel I might find myself overvaluing it in myself in tests just due to this massive bias I have.
It's almost like a superpower to me. If I could 'get good' at Si.. I'd be fucking.. invincible.. unstoppable..
I also value Fi a lot. To the point I thought I was an Fi dominant for a while.

However it doesn't make as much sense as Ni as my dominant function.
When I read about Ni I feel like I'm actually reading about me.
When I read about Fi I feel like I'm reading a fair amount of things I can do, or want to be etc, rather than things that are me, if that makes sense.. Ni on the other hand is more is me.

I've got an INTP friend, other people find him hard to read - I don't. I know exactly what's going on in his head, to the point it's almost like some kind of 6th sense, and I'll tell him what he's thinking, or come up with something to take his mind off of what's going on in his head atm, if I think that's what it needs.

I've been told all of my life by people who don't know me very well that I'm hard to read, standoffish, rude, arrogant, blunt etc you get the gist.
My friends don't see me this way.
My wife knows that other people see me this way and tries to 'call me out' on this kind of behaviour but I can't help it.

I would definitely agree with being 'hard to read'.
 

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I'm not entirely sure what you mean here, are you suggesting the way I speak sounds confident, however if you were to write down my words - their meanings might be unclear?
Your sentence contradicts itself, but that's my best guess lol.
I'm confident with regards to what's in my head, less confident about how it comes out, I feel like I stumble over my words and lose track of my thoughts a little bit when speaking.
Allow me to not respond to this for now. Too difficult.



No, I don't believe parents having 'power' over their children is a good thing, and I don't exert 'power' over my daughter.
I contradict myself here - she has a schedule with her naps, and bed-time, and I will enforce that to some degree, however she's very good with these and is ready for them at the same time, every time, basically.

When I say "some" degree, I mean, once it's about 7:30pm (she's in bed at 7pm) then I'll sit with her until she's asleep, if she's not already - in order to get her to fall asleep - read her books etc while she's lying down.
I don't hit her or go on any kinds of power-trips.

I don't recall my childhood very well at all, but I can remember a couple of times my mother attempting to exert power over me and this would obviously be met with disapproval i.e me not doing what I'm told, even when faced with someone much bigger than me who has a weapon.

This might sound unusual, and it's difficult to explain accurately - but when faced with power attempts, and practically any authority figures - I feel brave and confident, like I'm going in to battle.

Police officers are met with someone who will deny literally everything all the way to court, even if it's something as minor as going 2km over the speed limit.

I've lost jobs due to questioning my bosses when they even *attempt* to exert any kind of power over me - an example - I used to work in a call centre, where all calls are recorded - at some point, my team leader sent me an e-mail asking why I didn't do X on a particular call.

I could remember that call, and stated the reasons why I didn't follow the procedure (the caller hung up on me) and I questioned the point of the e-mail as this would be evidenced clearly in the recording.

This was the beginning of the end for me there, as the team leader didn't like it, so I was targeted from numerous angles by numerous people (all team leaders/management) in order to fire me.

I found out later on from a fellow work colleague, that I was proven right - the call was listened to by higher ups, that particular e-mail and the call that spawned it became a hot-topic for a while, and that particular team leader has been demoted (though, still employed..)
Nothing pleased me more, than hearing the news I was proven right and she paid for her manipulative and deceitful actions.

Even with council heads and government figures - I simply oppose them, it's born into me, I can't help it - if I see someone in a shop, or the streets, who is a local member of parliament etc, I think to myself "fucking piece of shit".
There is one exception, and this is a friend of mine who became our local Councillor after I'd known him for a while, he's a great guy and has great, positive, forward-looking ideas for our area.

All the others that I think "piece of shit" about are probably great people with good ideas, but it's the whole power/authority thing that makes me immediately think they're worthless, and not to be respected.

Even the thought of someone applying for a position in one of these jobs, irks me, it makes me think they're slimey little snakes.

Of course power exists, if it didn't exist, how could I oppose it?





You asked how others see me, and I provided a realistic response based on things I've actually been told, by people I've known for years.
I didn't just pull those words out of a hat.

Understand I am an introvert, 100% introvert, on most tests that provide measurements - I'm simply not going to open up in a way that's going to allow others to see my insightful, funny and caring side - especially not in a video where I'm answering questions - in a sense, submitting myself to others - I'm not a big fan of this.

However, I am truly after some help and direction - I self-type as a 5w4 and understand this is something a lot of people mistype as - I can't stand the thought of being mistyped (likely why I'm always questioning my mbti type, I want it to be the right one beyond doubt) - so, that's why I created the video to try and get some direction.

By genuine, I intend this to be true to myself - that's the way it was intended for me.
This can obviously be a double-edged sword, see: my views on authority. Lol.



I am Australian. I did the authority thing above.
I suppose it depends just how trivial we want to get, with regards to authority.

For instance, when my wife throws up a few options for dinner, and I choose one - I suppose in some minuscule way, I'm actually exerting my authority simply by making a choice.
This could break down to me selecting the music for a car-ride.

I understand how ridiculous this could get.

When I think about authority, I immediately think of people actually attempting to exert power, people who are supposedly in positions of power, people I'm supposed to respect for absolutely no reason.
I.E policeman, army people, politicians etc you get the gist.

I'd like to separate first aid people from this, as I respect them, and understand their position - so if I were to be at a scene where something bad has happened, and an ambulance arrived and the paramedics told me to do this or that, I'd do it because it's 'serious' and they know what they're doing - but the key thing here, the only reason I respect them - is that I appreciate and understand that they're trying to help.

I've thanked numerous paramedics and nurses/doctors over the years for what they do, when I see them out.
I admire these kinds of people, and if we put say, a paramedic and my favourite musician side-by-side, I'd be more in awe/starstruck by the paramedic.

So my views on authority and power contradict themselves a lot, lots of exceptions etc, and I'm perfectly comfortable with that.

I prefer INFJ via dichotomy very clearly - cognitive functions gets unnecessarily messy for me - because I value Si, a lot, in others - I feel I might find myself overvaluing it in myself in tests just due to this massive bias I have.
It's almost like a superpower to me. If I could 'get good' at Si.. I'd be fucking.. invincible.. unstoppable..
I also value Fi a lot. To the point I thought I was an Fi dominant for a while.

However it doesn't make as much sense as Ni as my dominant function.
When I read about Ni I feel like I'm actually reading about me.
When I read about Fi I feel like I'm reading a fair amount of things I can do, or want to be etc, rather than things that are me, if that makes sense.. Ni on the other hand is more is me.

I've got an INTP friend, other people find him hard to read - I don't. I know exactly what's going on in his head, to the point it's almost like some kind of 6th sense, and I'll tell him what he's thinking, or come up with something to take his mind off of what's going on in his head atm, if I think that's what it needs.

I've been told all of my life by people who don't know me very well that I'm hard to read, standoffish, rude, arrogant, blunt etc you get the gist.
My friends don't see me this way.
My wife knows that other people see me this way and tries to 'call me out' on this kind of behaviour but I can't help it.

I would definitely agree with being 'hard to read'.
You have told a lot about yourself above. I would continue to try to get responses from others on PerC who can read people better than I. I will give you some impressions as well as theory.

By "power" I mean the ability to carry out actions. These actions can be about oneself or others and for bad or good toward oneself or others. From this you can see there are many variations. I will look to straighten out so-called contradictions.

In the case of your daughter, I assume you love her and wish to see her grow as well as protect her. When you put her to bed you are caring for her. That is a form of power. She is too young to be self-managing though she is learning. You are her guide. Guidance is a power.

Your comments on the police officers and the paramedics are helpful. Both of these exert power in their professions. Police officers may try to take short cuts. They act in self-interest. Try to understand this. You may have to obey them because they have the power of force. Not all cops are bad though. I've talked to a few who are guarding things in the city and they are trying to do their jobs. The paramedics by profession are trying to help people. No wonder we like them. They are ready to help us in times of trouble. So will the cops if someone outside attacks you. But no one is perfect.

I remember getting a ticket for going way over the speed limit. Cost me a lot of money. But it was my fault. By the cop enforcing this I now go more slowly. The cop was doing his job. I once asked a cop how much over the speed limit I could go before he would go after me. He wouldn't answer saying "it depends." Another cop let me go for speeding because I knew the neighborhood. Now was that a good cop or a bad one? I was grateful for not being ticketed but later I continued to drive too fast. Not good for me.

About the call center. Let's see. Not every boss is competent. You can question them as long as you are respectful to them and their position. Maybe you can actually help them become more competent depending on their good-will.
A boss can have troubles of their own. Then the trick might be to talk to them about something else so they are on your side before anything bad happens.

(I forgot what I was going to say because my mind was going over things, lol.) Oh. I remember. You say you are an introvert as I am. This makes being friends with a boss harder. Maybe just "friendliness" is enough. No boss likes to be threatened by their underlings.

You enjoyed that team leader's demotion so even if you were right, both of you lost out. I'm guessing it was your "style" (belligerent, angry, accusative?) that got you in the position to be fired. I can't tell because I can't see how you made the challenge. You were logically right, but socially wrong.

About "council heads and government figures." Now you are talking politics. This no doubt is highly emotional. Here in the United States with Donald Trump president it's the same thing. No one is neutral. (Except me, lol.) I can't speak to this without more detail. You yourself admit there is a good guy out there. Some politicians really want to serve; others are out for profit and abuse their power. Still others get corrupted.

Si? I don't follow you. What are you talking about? INFJ = Ni Fe Ti Se. Fi? You are talking internal feelings and memories I think. We all have these but if they are not very conscious they are hard to control within ourselves. Do you agree?

"standoffish and rude" I don't experience you that way. Just the opposite.
 
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Allow me to not respond to this for now. Too difficult.
No sweat.

You have told a lot about yourself above. I would continue to try to get responses from others on PerC who can read people better than I. I will give you some impressions as well as theory.

By "power" I mean the ability to carry out actions. These actions can be about oneself or others and for bad or good toward oneself or others. From this you can see there are many variations. I will look to straighten out so-called contradictions.

In the case of your daughter, I assume you love her and wish to see her grow as well as protect her. When you put her to bed you are caring for her. That is a form of power. She is too young to be self-managing though she is learning. You are her guide. Guidance is a power.
Never seen it this way.
I see 'power' as a negative thing, for the most part.

Your comments on the police officers and the paramedics are helpful. Both of these exert power in their professions. Police officers may try to take short cuts. They act in self-interest. Try to understand this. You may have to obey them because they have the power of force. Not all cops are bad though. I've talked to a few who are guarding things in the city and they are trying to do their jobs. The paramedics by profession are trying to help people. No wonder we like them. They are ready to help us in times of trouble. So will the cops if someone outside attacks you. But no one is perfect.
I don't believe I have to obey police. I don't see them as the same thing as paramedics etc.

I don't view police as helpful entities, I view them as essentially an arm of the government that is seeking to collect money.
I can't recall a single time, when the police have ever prevented a crime.
They only ever respond to call-outs.
They don't patrol the streets here, looking for crimes to prevent, no, they camp on the side of the road and try to catch hard-working parents driving over the speed limit by 2kms in a rural zone that shouldn't have such a low speed limit in the first place - i.e, a trap-zone - trying to generate some money via fines.
This is the role of the police, as I see them. Useless pricks.

I remember getting a ticket for going way over the speed limit. Cost me a lot of money. But it was my fault. By the cop enforcing this I now go more slowly. The cop was doing his job. I once asked a cop how much over the speed limit I could go before he would go after me. He wouldn't answer saying "it depends." Another cop let me go for speeding because I knew the neighborhood. Now was that a good cop or a bad one? I was grateful for not being ticketed but later I continued to drive too fast. Not good for me.
Could they have not been doing something more important and valuable to your community, though?
Surely there are actual crimes that need to be solved. Surely there is something they can do other than be the worlds biggest piss-ants.

About the call center. Let's see. Not every boss is competent. You can question them as long as you are respectful to them and their position. Maybe you can actually help them become more competent depending on their good-will.
A boss can have troubles of their own. Then the trick might be to talk to them about something else so they are on your side before anything bad happens.

(I forgot what I was going to say because my mind was going over things, lol.) Oh. I remember. You say you are an introvert as I am. This makes being friends with a boss harder. Maybe just "friendliness" is enough. No boss likes to be threatened by their underlings.
The e-mail was worded all nice and friendly, I knew the possible consequences of questioning a team leader so I made sure it was done in such a way as to not get me fired.

I misread how butthurt, and how pathetic that particular team leader was.

You enjoyed that team leader's demotion so even if you were right, both of you lost out. I'm guessing it was your "style" (belligerent, angry, accusative?) that got you in the position to be fired. I can't tell because I can't see how you made the challenge. You were logically right, but socially wrong.
The e-mail was basically like this:

"Hi xxx, thanks for the e-mail. I recall that conversation clearly - the reason I didn't attempt to upsell him was because he hung up on me after getting the information he was after. Listen to the recording you will see what I mean."

That was it. Not overly friendly, but not particularly accusing.

About "council heads and government figures." Now you are talking politics. This no doubt is highly emotional. Here in the United States with Donald Trump president it's the same thing. No one is neutral. (Except me, lol.) I can't speak to this without more detail. You yourself admit there is a good guy out there. Some politicians really want to serve; others are out for profit and abuse their power. Still others get corrupted.
Yeah I'm happy to leave this here. I actively avoid politics in my everyday life, to be fair.
Because I know how they make me feel. Same with the police.

Si? I don't follow you. What are you talking about? INFJ = Ni Fe Ti Se. Fi? You are talking internal feelings and memories I think. We all have these but if they are not very conscious they are hard to control within ourselves. Do you agree?
Yeah, I mentioned resonating with Si and Fi, even though I prefer INFJ, to prove how messy I think cognitive functions are.
Going by dichotomy is far easier to me - introvert, intuitive, feeler, judger, done. Simple.
Even using the INFJ stack is a great fit for me.
But, I do relate to Fi and Si as well, neither are in the INFJ stack (well the top 4, I've been reading further into the John Beebe 8 model stack lately, and loving it).
Just makes it all messy.

I am able to control my internal feelings pretty well. I don't really do 'memories' unless something triggers it in a conversation.
I don't just sit here and think about things that have happened in my life, and I don't reminisce about anything in my own time.
Which is weird as hell, because my wife thinks I have a great memory.

"standoffish and rude" I don't experience you that way. Just the opposite.
Haha, brilliant - but, the reality is a lot of people find my sense of humour to be unfunny and rude, and my behaviour around people is practically that of the ultimate 'observer' in that I barely, if ever, interact with people when we go out anywhere - which winds up with a lot of people finding me to be defensive and standoffish, however they misread me, I'm a very caring and friendly guy and would do absolutely anything for my friends and family - and even strangers - if I think they have no ulterior motives and aren't trying to take advantage of me.

I have pretty massive walls up all the time though, I guess.
 

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I see 'power' as a negative thing, for the most part.
Power by itself is morally neutral. It just exists. Abstractly thinking, power = the ability to do things. Gravity exerts a certain force on your body. It has no morality. People do things also. It is the people who are good or evil or rather do good or evil things.


I don't believe I have to obey police. I don't see them as the same thing as paramedics etc.
You don't live in a police state, do you? Why wouldn't you have to obey police? What circumstances are you encountering? If you are driving and they ask you to pull over, it's best to obey even if their reasons are stupid.

Let's see. Police and paramedics. Both are involved in saving lives. Paramedics do that by getting help directly for your body. (Paramedics have it easy because harm to your body is more evident.) Police do that by stopping the bad guys from harming your body. Police have a tough job because it's hard to tell bad guys from good guys. Police have to keep order. Order is important because ordinary people will inadvertently step on each other's toes. Police stop us from doing bad things to each other even if we don't intend badness. This is what traffic cops do.



I don't view police as helpful entities, I view them as essentially an arm of the government that is seeking to collect money.
I can't recall a single time, when the police have ever prevented a crime.
They only ever respond to call-outs.
They don't patrol the streets here, looking for crimes to prevent, no, they camp on the side of the road and try to catch hard-working parents driving over the speed limit by 2kms in a rural zone that shouldn't have such a low speed limit in the first place - i.e, a trap-zone - trying to generate some money via fines.
This is the role of the police, as I see them. Useless pricks.
I see. This is a corruption of what police are supposed to do. Yet you still have to obey in the sense that if a robber holds a knife at your throat, it's probably best to do what they ask. Is there someone higher up in government you can appeal to while you try to avoid speed traps? Or are all the gov't officials corrupt?

I once was biking in the city where a cops had set up a red light trap for bikes. I saw this and walked my bike over to where the cops were and asked him some question. (I forget what it was.) He tried to give me a ticket assuming I made a violation. But he couldn't give me a ticket because I pointed out I had walked my bike. What's my point? If you haven't violated the law even in a small way, you can talk to a cop and catch them doing stupid things ... or at least ask them why they are doing what they are doing.




Could they have not been doing something more important and valuable to your community, though?
Surely there are actual crimes that need to be solved. Surely there is something they can do other than be the worlds biggest piss-ants.
Sure but in the towns I travel I learn where the cops are. They only stay there for two weeks and then move on. When they leave the area I can do as I wish. Are you in a small rural town area? I live mostly in a big city. There are traffic cops, parking cops, parade cops, marksmen, green beret types, detectives, neighborhood patrol cops, escort cops and more that I don't know about.



The e-mail was worded all nice and friendly, I knew the possible consequences of questioning a team leader so I made sure it was done in such a way as to not get me fired.
You did the right thing.

I misread how butthurt, and how pathetic that particular team leader was.
Here the thing. In any organization if the person above you is doing poorly and you perform to perfection, sooner or later you will be noticed and YOU will be in a position to replace that person above you. Sometimes the poor performer knows it, will resign and even ask you to replace them.



The e-mail was basically like this:

"Hi xxx, thanks for the e-mail. I recall that conversation clearly - the reason I didn't attempt to upsell him was because he hung up on me after getting the information he was after. Listen to the recording you will see what I mean."

That was it. Not overly friendly, but not particularly accusing.
Question: why did he hang up on you? I don't know the tone you spoke to him so I have no way of telling if you were in any way off-putting.



Yeah I'm happy to leave this here. I actively avoid politics in my everyday life, to be fair.
Because I know how they make me feel. Same with the police.
I used to be non-political. Now I take an interest. There are more than one threads here on Donald Trump and they mostly make fun of him.



Yeah, I mentioned resonating with Si and Fi, even though I prefer INFJ, to prove how messy I think cognitive functions are.
Going by dichotomy is far easier to me - introvert, intuitive, feeler, judger, done. Simple.
Even using the INFJ stack is a great fit for me.
But, I do relate to Fi and Si as well, neither are in the INFJ stack (well the top 4, I've been reading further into the John Beebe 8 model stack lately, and loving it).
Just makes it all messy.
Yes it's messy. I'm not fond of messy. I hope to work on some theory to make things more clear. Yet personalities are complex. Come to think of it knowing your former team leader's personality type might have helped, messy or not.



I am able to control my internal feelings pretty well. I don't really do 'memories' unless something triggers it in a conversation.
I don't just sit here and think about things that have happened in my life, and I don't reminisce about anything in my own time.
Which is weird as hell, because my wife thinks I have a great memory.
I can't speak to that.



Haha, brilliant - but, the reality is a lot of people find my sense of humour to be unfunny and rude, and my behaviour around people is practically that of the ultimate 'observer' in that I barely, if ever, interact with people when we go out anywhere - which winds up with a lot of people finding me to be defensive and standoffish, however they misread me, I'm a very caring and friendly guy and would do absolutely anything for my friends and family - and even strangers - if I think they have no ulterior motives and aren't trying to take advantage of me.

I have pretty massive walls up all the time though, I guess.
Going back to INFJ = Ni Fe Ti Se if that is what you are, you can develop your Fe. That means finding out where other people are at and how to interact with them accordingly. I'm not expert (INTP = Ti Ne Si Fe) but I can still learn how to harmonize with people. I don't know you but I thought it would be fun to see if I could try to help at all and see what's going on ...
 

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I'm pretty convinced you are a 1. “I want to avoid being a bad person, doing bad things.”

You talk about how being self-critical and wanting to improve defines your thoughts. “I’m doing the best that I could, and I’m doing okay, but I could always do better.” This is the 1 mindset, with the desire to constantly be improving, whether to improve themselves, others, or the world. No matter how well things are going, they could always be better.

Given how confident you came across for most of the video, I was surprised when you said you consider yourself a failure. I think any competency type might obsess on those themes, especially 3, but the way you’ve phrased them is in terms of your duty to others (“isn’t doing his job as a father, as a…”), which stuck out to me as more superego/compliant type and therefore more 1 than 3. Your reasoning for feeling like a failure is that there is more you could improve. It’s 1’s sense of frustration with imperfection.

“I don’t get angry.”
“I, myself, never get into conflicts.”
-- These statements sound very 1, especially because of the way you said them. Not getting angry and not getting into conflicts feel like a choice for you--you aren’t afraid of conflict, you are rising above it. Honestly, these statements, said with the confidence that you did, could define 1 as a type.

And yet, despite this, you make a point of standing up to authority and ripping it to shreds in a way that sounded quite intense and thorough. You don’t get into conflicts, but when you see something you believe is wrong, you have a lot of aggression. You’re not avoiding conflict because of fear or unclear boundaries, but because it seems to be a value for you.

You focus a lot on honesty as a core value. Seeking of truth is tied into the value of honesty here, I think.

You mention disliking unexpected changes, even small ones, which fits 1s being pretty unadaptable. (Could also be simply because of Ni-valuing, since you focused on how it disrupts the timeline.)

You're considering 5w4. I see where some of your values match up with 5, and there’s competency themes all over the place, but I don’t think you’re 5 core. A few things stuck out to me as pretty strongly un-5-ish. The biggest one is that you want to apply your knowledge to the real world. The understanding you seek is not compartmentalized but a part of your life & drawing on your life, and you emphasize its usefulness. Like, you talked about gaining understanding of what it means to be a father by living that experience, and applying the knowledge you gain back into that situation to improve. 5’s big mistake is to replace direct experience with concepts. What they experience in “real life” is segregated from the understanding and knowledge they are growing, and conversely, they never feel ready to step out on stage. You seem so much more engaged in your life, so much more interested in understanding as a part of life rather than a special, rarefied thing, than a 5.

Your description of how you want others to see you could definitely match 1 values. As a 5, I would almost be frightened of people seeing me in some of the ways you describe, specifically these ones: considerate, friendly, caring, compassionate, warm-hearted. When people see me in such "kind" or "soft" ways it feels strangely invasive. In fact, the whole idea of "being seen" can be disturbing to me in a way. This could, of course, be related to your Fe-aux. But your desire to be seen as those things indicates to me that you aren’t afraid of people relying on you. Instead, you seem to welcome it, recognizing that we’re interconnected and have responsibilities to one another.

This might be silly, but the fact you had the perspective to recognize your hobbies were separate from a core value actually didn’t sound very 5ish. 5s are a bit obsessive about their “thing.”
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
I'm pretty convinced you are a 1. “I want to avoid being a bad person, doing bad things.”
Thanks for watching and chiming in.

You talk about how being self-critical and wanting to improve defines your thoughts. “I’m doing the best that I could, and I’m doing okay, but I could always do better.” This is the 1 mindset, with the desire to constantly be improving, whether to improve themselves, others, or the world. No matter how well things are going, they could always be better.
This is interesting, thanks.

Constantly wanting to improve includes seeking knowledge and the truth to me.
Like, improving my own views on the world etc.

Given how confident you came across for most of the video, I was surprised when you said you consider yourself a failure. I think any competency type might obsess on those themes, especially 3, but the way you’ve phrased them is in terms of your duty to others (“isn’t doing his job as a father, as a…”), which stuck out to me as more superego/compliant type and therefore more 1 than 3. Your reasoning for feeling like a failure is that there is more you could improve. It’s 1’s sense of frustration with imperfection.
It's difficult for me to not feel like a failure as I live in a town with high unemployment, I have a job, but it's something I despise - telesales.

I just feel there's so many things I could be doing to improve our lives and no matter how hard I try, I never seem to do enough.

I definitely feel there is always room for improvement in myself. I'm not as critical with other people, far more understanding with others.

I let others slide where I would absolutely not let myself slide.

“I don’t get angry.”
“I, myself, never get into conflicts.”
-- These statements sound very 1, especially because of the way you said them. Not getting angry and not getting into conflicts feel like a choice for you--you aren’t afraid of conflict, you are rising above it. Honestly, these statements, said with the confidence that you did, could define 1 as a type.
Yes, I rise above conflicts. I preempt from miles away and avoid them with ease.

I feel conflict averse in a sense, due to this - I actively prevent conflicts well before they occur, I see all the ways conflicts might happen and just don't let them, without anyone knowing I'm preventing a conflict.

Getting angry and engaging in arguments etc is simply laughable to me, and unfortunately I mean this literally as laughing is my defence mechanism to most things I find ridiculous - I've wound up having a close encounter or two when caught by surprise and wind up actually laughing in the face of someone who is after conflict.

Some people think I'm a smug prick for this but it's legitimately my defence mechanism to laugh at things.
i.e someone asking me if I want them to bash my skull in - what kind of question is that? A ridiculous one. Hilarity ensues.

For whatever reason, even with people clearly aggravated with me - I never feel like I'm actually in a conflict or an argument.

I feel like the other party is just losing their shit and I'm just observing it, not a part of it.


And yet, despite this, you make a point of standing up to authority and ripping it to shreds in a way that sounded quite intense and thorough. You don’t get into conflicts, but when you see something you believe is wrong, you have a lot of aggression. You’re not avoiding conflict because of fear or unclear boundaries, but because it seems to be a value for you.
Yeah, I agree with this - never considered that avoiding conflicts might actually be a core value of mine - there truly is something deep down inside of me that truly doesn't see the point in them.. I can see what you mean here.

You focus a lot on honesty as a core value. Seeking of truth is tied into the value of honesty here, I think.
Yeah, of course.

You mention disliking unexpected changes, even small ones, which fits 1s being pretty unadaptable. (Could also be simply because of Ni-valuing, since you focused on how it disrupts the timeline.)
This is a tricky one because I don't feel "unadaptable" though it does fit quite well.

This might sound contradictory but I'm perfectly happy to be adaptable AF if it's my own idea.

Other peoples ideas, no, I'm far less flexible - though I do go along with them, it irks me.

Me changing plans on myself (and sometimes others) doesn't irk me and if I'm met with the same sort of inflexibility I have, I wind up thinking they're unadaptable.
Hypocritical. I know this.

You're considering 5w4. I see where some of your values match up with 5, and there’s competency themes all over the place, but I don’t think you’re 5 core. A few things stuck out to me as pretty strongly un-5-ish. The biggest one is that you want to apply your knowledge to the real world. The understanding you seek is not compartmentalized but a part of your life & drawing on your life, and you emphasize its usefulness. Like, you talked about gaining understanding of what it means to be a father by living that experience, and applying the knowledge you gain back into that situation to improve. 5’s big mistake is to replace direct experience with concepts. What they experience in “real life” is segregated from the understanding and knowledge they are growing, and conversely, they never feel ready to step out on stage. You seem so much more engaged in your life, so much more interested in understanding as a part of life rather than a special, rarefied thing, than a 5.
I'm nowhere near as engaged as I come across, lol.
I find it amazing that I come off that way.

I do generally only seek knowledge I can use, or think I can use, or that interests me and I see thinking about things I've learnt as "use" of this knowledge.

I won't waste time researching things and learning things that aren't interesting and won't be useful to me.

I am one of those guys who gets lost on Wikipedia etc but I find all of that useful even if it's just to think about.. like I'm still using what I've learnt, in a way.

But I do love seeing it manifest in the real world - I e learning how to say, do the cross-eyed thing for smashing "past" modes of Hidden Object Games - just reading about it isn't really good enough, I'll want to actually do it and see what I've learnt happen for real.


Your description of how you want others to see you could definitely match 1 values. As a 5, I would almost be frightened of people seeing me in some of the ways you describe, specifically these ones: considerate, friendly, caring, compassionate, warm-hearted. When people see me in such "kind" or "soft" ways it feels strangely invasive. In fact, the whole idea of "being seen" can be disturbing to me in a way. This could, of course, be related to your Fe-aux. But your desire to be seen as those things indicates to me that you aren’t afraid of people relying on you. Instead, you seem to welcome it, recognizing that we’re interconnected and have responsibilities to one another.
Yeah, good point.
I don't mind some responsibility.
I am the world's biggest hermit though and would practically never leave the house if my wife didn't make me... I don't exactly seek those connections, actively - but to be seen as those descriptors I listed off would be ideal, it would mean that I'm appreciated, if that makes sense."

Things I already know that I am, I don't need to be told by others and don't really need to be 'seen as' by others.
I'm not sure if I mentioned it in the video, but things like intelligence, clever, witty, strategic etc are thing I already know I am and it makes me feel a little uneasy, when other see me as the things I know I am.

Because these are things I prefer to keep to myself.
It would be a bit like someone talking with me, irl, and telling me I'm an INFJ for example - it would catch me off-guard that they know this about me when I don't want them to.

Or.. if I was talking with someone and they said something like "gee, you're very strategic" - this is something I already know and would prefer to keep hidden.

This probably sounds completely ridiculous, but it's like I don't want people to see my biggest strengths, because they're my biggest strengths and are for me and only me to know.

I don't mind being seen as insightful or the other ones I listed but when it touches on the more tactical/strategic/potentially competitive part of me - I don't like this being exposed.

Even at work, if someone tells me I'm being competitive - this to me, makes me feel like I've slipped up - I've exposed myself somewhere - at some point, my walls have come down and someone has realised I'm being competitive. I don't want people to know this.

I'm not sure how to phrase this properly but whatever *this* is, is a pretty large part of who I am.

I prefer to keep my strongest cards close to my chest.
I'm far more open online, than I am IRL.

This might be silly, but the fact you had the perspective to recognize your hobbies were separate from a core value actually didn’t sound very 5ish. 5s are a bit obsessive about their “thing.”
Haha, yeah maybe.
I see myself as separate from my hobbies.

What I see as a part of me and something that might be my "thing" would be as a truth-seeker and someone who is steps ahead of everybody else (I probably overvalue my intelligence sometimes - actually, right here might be useful - I don't like being less intelligent than other people, I can't stand having my intelligence critiqued or questioned, and when in the presence of someone who is clearly more knowledgable on the subject I go full beta-male and refuse to speak because I don't want to embarrass myself - my intelligence, is something I hold very dear and of utmost importance to me, this might be a really critical 'core value' because it's something I prize so much, that I'll fight other people so as to not be seen as less intelligent - I'll write 10,000 words essays to destroy people who critique my intelligence in any way, and I take basically all critique as attacks on my intelligence).

EDIT: It's dawning on me, that practically everything I've said can be boiled down to this defense of my intelligence, or my own mind and thoughts - even things like wanting to be seen as genuine and caring - if I were to be told I wasn't these things, I'd take it as an insult to my intelligence - as if I don't know how to be genuine or caring.

I feel like I've just had some kind of Ni insight into my own character just now, wow.

Anyway.
Thanks again, I appreciate your response a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I might have come to some kind of closure - I joined a Discord and posted the video and most people thought I was a type 5, after some additional questioning - likely with type 1 not far behind at all.
I also got told to have a read of The Complete Enneagram by Beatrice Chestnut.

I had a read, and relate to type 5 and type 1 the most, as expected - funnily enough I don't really relate to type 6 at all, which is a type other people feel they see.

It's weird, in that, with type 5 - I relate to type 5 'as is' so to speak - once it shifts into the instincts, I found myself more like.. 80% relating to each? It felt like less of a connection, than just type 5 in general which was more like 100%.

With type 1, I relate to the general type 1 about 90%, however Social Type One almost entirely - it's pretty much a perfect fit.
This coincides nicely with how well I found myself resonating with Type 9 in the book - until I got to Type 5 and Type 1 in depth, I was actually reconsidering 9 as my core type.

Here is SOC Type One, straight from the book:

The Social One: “Non-Adaptability”
The Social One is less of a perfectionist and focuses more on being the perfect example for others of
the right way to be. This One is not an internally anxious person striving to be perfectionistic, but
rather a paragon of correct conduct. Social Ones have a need to represent the perfect model of the
way to be or do things through their actions—to teach others by example. Ichazo labeled this type
“Non-adaptability” and Naranjo calls this subtype “Rigidity,” describing the Social One as having a
kind of “school teacher” mentality. Non-adaptability or rigidity refers to the tendency of this
character to rigidly adhere to particular ways of being and doing things, as a way of expressing
exclusive ownership of the “right” way to be, think, and behave.

In this Social One subtype, anger is half-hidden. Where the heat of anger changes into warmth in
the Self-Preservation One, in this personality there is a transformation of the heat of anger into cold.
This character tends to be a cooler, more intellectual type, in which the main characteristic is control.
However, the anger of the Social One is not completely repressed, because there is an equivalent of
anger in their passion for being the owner of the truth. In this subtype, anger gets channeled into an
overconfidence about being right or “perfect.”

The Social One has a (usually unconscious) need to feel superior or to appear superior (because a
conscious desire to be superior would constitute bad behavior). It is as if they are implicitly saying,
“I’m right and you’re wrong.” They have an underlying need to make others wrong to have some
power over them. If I’m right and you’re wrong, then I have more right than you to control the
situation. Like my Social One father always used to say: “I’ve never been wrong, except once, when I
thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.”

Social Ones learn to repress emotions from a very early age; they were usually good kids who did
not cause problems. They may have been young adults who acted “older” than they really were, who
often forgot that they were children.

A person of this subtype may purposely not adjust to changing times or customs. A Social One
tends to persist in a particular way of doing things that she thinks is right, despite others having
evolved into doing it a different way. This One displays the general attitude, “This is how it is and I’m
going to tell you how it should be.”

Not surprisingly, Social Ones automatically take on the role of teacher. Social Ones have the sense
that demonstrating and modeling what they are teaching is equally or more valuable than what that
say. It’s the idea that a good model goes a long way toward making the point being taught. They may
also be unaware of the need to appear superior, but may receive feedback from others that they are
acting like a “know-it-all.”

This is the Type One who resembles Type Five in that this character can be more introverted and
may seem a bit “above it all” and emotionally detached. They separate themselves from the crowd
because they are perfect and therefore superior. They never feel completely comfortable in the
groups they frequent; they tend to feel alienated. But while Fives focus primarily on conserving
energy and resources, Ones focus more on making things perfect and their anger is closer to the
surface.

In relationships, Social Ones can have high expectations. They tend to have more confidence in
themselves than in others. They can seem remote at times, being self-sufficient to the point of not
seeming to need others. It can also prove difficult for partners and friends to convince Social Ones
that a perspective other than their own can be correct. They are great reasoners and will argue their
point energetically. They dominate through making the other person wrong, and it can be hard to
convince them of the validity of a competing point of view.

That is me. That is legitimately me, for better or worse.
It's practically perfect. A headshot.

It even covers why I relate to Type 5 as it's similar to the Type 5.

I believe that this, and my resonance with Type 9, means I'm most likely a 1w9 core type.
Which of course means that @spiderfrommars was bang-on target. Well done.

It also means I was mistaken when thinking I was an SX subtype of any kind.
1w9 SO fits perfectly, and it matches with the results I got from the instinctual variants test in the Enneagram main section as well.

Genuinely surprised to find my results here don't match what I thought - I genuinely thought 5w4 SX was accurate.
Definitely 1w9 SO.

How weird.

It almost feels like a relief of sorts, to find something so dead-on - I can lock this in and head for self-improvement now, and I can also now dive into Enneagram more to try help out others with what I learn along the way.

If only MBTI was this simple.
I've been able to slay my Enneagram type with complete confidence in like, a day of actual research.

It's been like.. 7 months with MBTI and I'm still like.. eh. Could be fucking anything there.
Any kind of introvert.
Maybe I should see what 1w9 SOC is most likely to line up as.


Anyway. Sorry for rambling.
Thanks for all the help - I've had a few PMs from people who haven't responded in this thread, and I'm genuinely appreciative of all of it.

Also everyone mentioned type 1 in some fashion.
So that's a thing.
 
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I might have come to some kind of closure -
I haven't been closed on this. Some of my thoughts.

The type a person is is the type the person is most comfortable with. It doesn't mean the person can't take on aspects of another type. Those aspects just won't stick. I'm learning about type 1 along with you.

From the book:
"The Social One has a (usually unconscious) need to feel superior or to appear superior (because a
conscious desire to be superior would constitute bad behavior). It is as if they are implicitly saying,
“I’m right and you’re wrong.” They have an underlying need to make others wrong to have some
power over them. If I’m right and you’re wrong, then I have more right than you to control the
situation."

Do you recall in our conversation how you expressed dislike for those using power? Would it be okay to say you saw those as bad (inferior) thus making you superior? It tried to point out that power can be good. If you accept that, then you will have to retract any superiority to those using pure power unless you examine the nature of that power.

Something else.
I recall I said something about a difficulty in interpreting your video. (I forget how I put it.) This is still from memory but now I recall what bothered me. You said you believed in the truth and more. This bothered me because as an INTP I see "truth" as vast. You could not possibly be interested in all forms of truth. My intuition told me you had to be wrong. For example concrete hands-on truths are different from imagined conceptual theory truths. Some would say what you said was naive. I didn't know what to think or how to reply. Now that I see you emphasizing Type One, I see better where you are coming from. Makes sense?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I haven't been closed on this. Some of my thoughts.

The type a person is is the type the person is most comfortable with. It doesn't mean the person can't take on aspects of another type. Those aspects just won't stick. I'm learning about type 1 along with you.
Oh, I know - but it fits the best out of everything and lines up with SOC - funnily enough, the SOC 5 doesn't resonate as much - SP 5 is the best fit 5, but imo SOC 1 is the best fit of all of them.

I read the whole book and was keeping tabs on all of the types + subtypes.
I'll read more, that's just one source, I know, but it's clearly the best fit imo.

The SOC 1 descriptor even says they're similar to type 5s so it takes into account they share some similar characteristics.
It all just adds up to SOC 1 atm.

From the book:
"The Social One has a (usually unconscious) need to feel superior or to appear superior (because a
conscious desire to be superior would constitute bad behavior). It is as if they are implicitly saying,
“I’m right and you’re wrong.” They have an underlying need to make others wrong to have some
power over them. If I’m right and you’re wrong, then I have more right than you to control the
situation."

Do you recall in our conversation how you expressed dislike for those using power? Would it be okay to say you saw those as bad (inferior) thus making you superior? It tried to point out that power can be good. If you accept that, then you will have to retract any superiority to those using pure power unless you examine the nature of that power.
I'm not entirely sure what you're saying.
Re: the quote - I can apply this to my feelings about 'power' and 'authority' by basically just using the "I'm right and you're wrong" thing - in my head, I'm right and authority is wrong. It's that simple.
I think they're basically all dickheads, and I see myself as above them.
Not above "authority" in general, I don't see myself as some kind of god, I just see power and authority essentially as trivial 'games' of sorts, that I rise above.

This might make me sound like a douche, but this whole typology thing - all of it - is about complete and utter honesty - when I 'rise above' those kinds of things, I absolutely feel 'superior' to them.
I take great pleasure in proving myself to be right to authority figures or anyone attempting to exert their power over me (and/or others) as well.

I suppose a simple way to sum it up, would be if someone in a position of authority or power i.e a policeman told me "You're over the speed limit" and I had a way of proving beyond any kind of doubt that the speed limit sign was obstructed, that I simply didn't see the change - and I could prove this - I would definitely feel superior and think something along the lines of "ha! fuck you!".

There must be some kind of 'power' preference occurring inside me, that for whatever reason I'm not recognising as a need/want for "power" as I understand it.

Something else.
I recall I said something about a difficulty in interpreting your video. (I forget how I put it.) This is still from memory but now I recall what bothered me. You said you believed in the truth and more. This bothered me because as an INTP I see "truth" as vast. You could not possibly be interested in all forms of truth. My intuition told me you had to be wrong. For example concrete hands-on truths are different from imagined conceptual theory truths. Some would say what you said was naive. I didn't know what to think or how to reply. Now that I see you emphasizing Type One, I see better where you are coming from. Makes sense?
Not really.
I seek the truth, the actual truth - whether it is a concrete truth i.e it's raining here right now, or an imagined conceptual truth i.e there is no such thing as god - I seek the truth. I don't care really care whether it's a concrete truth or one I form in my own head, though I do have a tendency to believe in my own truths more, rather than rely on those I find outside myself.
 

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I might have come to some kind of closure
I am glad! And I'm glad I could help, for whatever it was worth. 1w9 SO sounds like the right fit. I hadn't considered them appearing 5-like, but now that I think about it that makes a lot of sense.

I also found the instincts really helpful--like you, I first typed as sx. I don't think the so descriptions (in a vacuum) are very good at all. But so 5 describes me better than any typing in any system. As you say, a headshot.

If only MBTI was this simple.
I've been able to slay my Enneagram type with complete confidence in like, a day of actual research.

It's been like.. 7 months with MBTI and I'm still like.. eh. Could be fucking anything there.
Any kind of introvert.
Same here! (I mean, it took me far longer than a day, but I'm at the same place as you right now, knowing my enneagram confidently and feeling it truly describes me, but in terms of cognition...any introvert.) For what it's worth, INFJ makes sense to me for you. But cognition is so internal.
 

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I just paid for the test on Enneagram.net - the one with wings and instinctual variants.
It's typed me as a type 5, likely wings 4, 6.. SP/SO/SX.

So I'm very confused now, because I wholeheartedly agree with literally everything my report says - it's 100% me - not to take away from what I read about Type 1w9 though, which I also see as definitely me.

Very, very confused.

The test also says if I get a "pair" as my top ranked cards on the Enneaspread, then there's a 90% chance that's my type and they have seen very few exceptions to this - I got a type 5 pair.

I wonder whether I'm a type 5 who is just confused, or trying to be someone they're not. I don't know.
All I know is I am very confused right now, and torn between One and Five.


The test tells me the following:
- Head Center type 5.
- Heart Center type 4.
- Gut Center type 1.

It goes in that order as well, says most preferred is Head, next is Heart and least is Gut.

I can post up my results if needs be, I agree with all of this.
I have no idea where to go from here.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I am glad! And I'm glad I could help, for whatever it was worth. 1w9 SO sounds like the right fit. I hadn't considered them appearing 5-like, but now that I think about it that makes a lot of sense.

I also found the instincts really helpful--like you, I first typed as sx. I don't think the so descriptions (in a vacuum) are very good at all. But so 5 describes me better than any typing in any system. As you say, a headshot.


Same here! (I mean, it took me far longer than a day, but I'm at the same place as you right now, knowing my enneagram confidently and feeling it truly describes me, but in terms of cognition...any introvert.) For what it's worth, INFJ makes sense to me for you. But cognition is so internal.

Ha, yeah, well I've confused myself a tad now by taking the test on Enneagram.net which tells me 541 in that order, SP variant.
And, like the 1w9, I agree with every word it says - which makes sense, I know, they're both in my tritype - I'm sure those three types, 5, 4 and 1, in whatever order, are correct. Positive of it.

Now I need to do some research and compare and contrast the 5w4 SP type with the 1w9 SO type and see where I fall, I guess.

I'm confused, but relatively happy in that I only feel the need to consider 5 or 1 as most likely - at least it's not the whole 9 types or anything.
That test tells me it's most likely 5w4 though.
Perhaps I overvalue my inner 1w9 self, maybe.

Your Report Summary:
Top ranked Enneacard overall: Type 5
Top Ranked Enneacard in your Enneaspread: Type 5
Potential Wing(s): 4, 6
Potential Tritype: 541
Potential Instinctual Stacking: Self-Preservation > Social > Sexual
 
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Ha, yeah, well I've confused myself a tad now by taking the test on Enneagram.net which tells me 541 in that order, SP variant.
And, like the 1w9, I agree with every word it says - which makes sense, I know, they're both in my tritype - I'm sure those three types, 5, 4 and 1, in whatever order, are correct. Positive of it.
FYI, tests give out 5 and 4 results like candy, so I wouldn't worry too much about testing as a 5 meaning you have to be one. When I take tests that suggest a tritype, I always get 4 (sometimes even as a core type) but that's just wing influence/being an artist. For you, it might just be the fix combined with the fact 5 has so many intellectual traits and the holy idea of omniscience, which closely aligns with (but is not equivalent to) being a truth seeker.

It could also not. I don't want to pressure you with my interpretation. But just based on what you've shared, you don't seem to have a lot of fear of being overwhelmed or depleted.

Stacking-wise I can certainly see sp/so and so/sp as options, but I would lean in the so/sp direction (even outside of being more on the 1 side) in part of the focus you had on your responsibilities to others in the OP video.

I would also consider (whether as core type or as a fix) that your 5 may be a 5w6, especially if you have a 4 fix. I do get a drier, more 5w6/6w5y vibe from your thought process, and the way you see truth and themes like that felt more universal (which I see as a place of 5/6 intersection) than esoteric/personal/fluxy (which I see as more 4/5).
 
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Speculations on any confusion. I am fond of doing theory which is a general way of explaining things. I would say play with this 1 and 5 thing for a while. I am ignorant of Enneagram so that is a disclaimer.

FYI, tests give out 5 and 4 results like candy,
So I'm very confused now, ...Very, very confused.

I wonder whether I'm a type 5 who is just confused, or trying to be someone they're not. I don't know.
All I know is I am very confused right now, and torn between One and Five.

The test tells me the following:
- Head Center type 5.
- Heart Center type 4.
- Gut Center type 1.

I have no idea where to go from here.
The issue with tests is they react to what you consciously believe is true. That may not be what you want. What is desirable is where you are most comfortable with in the long run which is mostly in your unconscious.

Roughly:
Head = conscious
Heart = feeling
Gut = unconscious

What I like to do is throw these things up into the air, let them float down interacting with my experience and see what settles on the floor. Who says any personality type has to be utterly precise? Let any personality settle in the ballpark.

Another factor is the experience of others. How one sees themself may not match how others see us. After someone adequately gets to know you if their judgment merges with yours, you get a better grip. That is why we have this PerC forum.

If only MBTI was this simple.
I find the four cognitive functions (thinking, feeling, sensing, intuiting) candidates for being simple. It's the way they are put together that gets complicated.

So far I can't get a handle on this Enneagram thing even if the personality descriptions are more clear.
 
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