[Geo]

1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?
My orientation – introverted or extraverted. Many of my preferences are typically introvert, some of my behavior however seems extraverted.


2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?
Being at one with myself, community with other people. To give to others.

Because that is what makes me feel good and I also think is good.


3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.
There are several occasions. All had me interacting with another person one-on-one and me expressing love in a way that deeply touched that person.

I was able to deeply relate to that person’s specific situation and challenges and convincingly express understanding and empathy.


4) What makes you feel inferior?
Looking bad (physcially or otherwise).


5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)
First priority are feeling (my emotions and how I think other people will be affected). Second priority rational analysis.


6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?
Yes.


7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it?
Playing basketball. Playing hide-and-seek. Reading a great book where I was able to deeply immerse myself in the story.

My memory is nostalgic, emotional and visual.


8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)
First, I like to read about it. I like to have different angles on the same subject. This allows me to gradually increase my understanding. It is absolutely vital for me to order and systematize what I’m learning. I need to be able to structure information in order to grasp it.


9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?
Very. I need internal and external order and I strive to create it.


10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?
I judge new ideas on what I (think I) know or have experienced to be true. If I get emotionally attached to a point of view, I have a tendency to look for supporting information. When I’m not attached, I try to look at it from different angles.


11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?
If I have to choose, I will probably follow what I believe to be true. Because I crave harmony across the board, however, I also try to contribute to a peaceful environment. I am not much of a group guy. At the same time, I like being with other people (small group preferably).


12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?
I think I think before speaking, but I’m really not sure on that. Might well depend on the circumstances.
I definitely prefer one-on-one communication to group discussion – big time.


13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?
I like to know where I am jumping.

That said, I believe that action speaks much more than words. I admire people that act instead of talk.


14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?
Depends. What I can say is that my initial preference would probably to stay home, but I might just as well go out.


15) How do you act when you're stressed out?
I become verbally critical of people. I start blaming external factors (people or things). I occasionally lay guilt trips on others. I become overly active yet very ineffective. I become fatalistic and my thinking becomes distorted and I draw rash conclusions. Specificially, I extrapolate things in a negative way, painting a very gloomy picture of the future that usually turns out to be unjustified.


16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?
Coldness, egoism, pushiness, garrulousness, aggression, parasitic neediness, rudeness, unreliability, superficiality, materialism, arrogance, starting an argument and then not hearing me out.


17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?
Spirituality (as long as it doesn’t become abstract and detached from experience), social and psychological topics.


18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life
Material things; money ; theoretical things that I perceive to have no practical/real world relevance.


19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ?
My friends probably perceive me as kind, understanding, generous, supportive, agreeable, interested, easy-going, tolerant, thoughtful, loyal, unobtrusive, smart, self-conscious, indecisive, a good listener. On occasion, they might also perceive me as warm but I may come off as reserved as well. Some may think of me as occasionally talkative, but that is the minority.

Contrary to appearance, I often am not a very good listener and not very interested in what others have to say. I can also be pretty judgmental and easily hurt. I am not very flexible. But I don’t display those traits when interacting with friends, because I like to be as agreeable as possible and make them feel good.

My friends would never say that I’m aggressive, argumentative, arrogant, loud, not agreeable, stupid.


20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?
Sports, meditation, enjoying nature (quiet), reading, meeting a good friend and having a deep conversation.



Thanks for any input.
Geo

 

[Flatlander]

I'm thinking ISFJ. I saw quite a bit of Si in there (reliance on experience, personal relevance, internal ordering of information), Fe > Ti, and I get an introvert vibe overall.

Edit: Addition

15) How do you act when you're stressed out?
I become verbally critical of people. I start blaming external factors (people or things). I occasionally lay guilt trips on others. I become overly active yet very ineffective. I become fatalistic and my thinking becomes distorted and I draw rash conclusions. Specificially, I extrapolate things in a negative way, painting a very gloomy picture of the future that usually turns out to be unjustified.

Perhaps inferior Ne?

If you want to take a look at this possibility, this thread would help. The inferior function can be quite telling.

 

[Lunarprox]

Consider these: ENFJ, INFJ, ISFJ.

"9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?
Very. I need internal and external order and I strive to create it." -- this might be Fe as Aux/dom + Ti as tertiary/inferior. External order is more Fe/Te while internal is Ti/fi. You most probably have Fe + Ti -- Question is, Si or Ni as percieving function?

 

[allisreal]

I'm thinking either ISFJ or ESFJ, leaning towards the former. Your answers to questions 15, 17, and 18 don't really support the prospect of you being an Ni dominant and maybe auxiliary. I agree with @Flatlander about the possible display of inferior Ne in question 15.

 

[Geo]

Thank you very much for your answers. They are really helpful. :happy:

I am 99,9 % certain I am an SFJ.

What I’m not sure about is E or I. When I take online tests, I always get ISFJ, usually with a fairly pronounced I. My preferences are indeed mostly introvert. But somehow, I think I might be an extravert. I’m not convinced my orientation is internal.

The description of an ISFJ type overall rings truer than the ESFJ one. I am definitely not a „master of ceremony“. I dislike attention and much prefer small groups or better even, one-on-one interaction. Small talk is something I detest. Also, I’m more of a listener than a talker. I think I’m at my best when I'm able to listen and empathize or give advice. In most of my relationships, this is what actually happens -- usually without the other person noticing, which suits me just perfectly. At any rate, I place much more importance on listening than talking - regardless of which I'm better at or engage in more frequently.


That said, I can be garrulous – especially when somethings fascinates me. Also, I’d say the inferior function description of an ESFJ sounds just as accurate as that of an ISFJ. Both have parts that fit 100%.

I’ve noticed that talking to a close person about a topic which fascinates me can launch me into overdrive. I usually feel both overexcited and exhausted after the discussion (if this makes any sense). I don’t like this at all. I need to be alone to become centered again.

I’ve noticed that some IJ acquaintances are actually quite messy. Could it be that the need for internal AND external order is a sign of being EJ?


Some additional information:
- I love relating to people - in a quiet and personal setting.
- I am interested in individuals, not groups.
- I am interested in how I work (introspection). I try to understand others through understanding myself. My reference point for understanding others is my own experience.
- I want depth and intimacy in my relationships. I have no interest in loose relationships.
- When it comes to knowledge, however, I have a generalist streak.
- Music deeply affects my emotional state. I am uncomfortable if I can't choose when and what is being played.
- The ideal job would be a combination of one-on-one interaction (or small groups) and quiet periods.
- I like it quiet and somewhat secluded.
- I am good at logic as long as the topic is not abstract. I generally pick up on contradictions and can argue in a stringent manner. I suppose I might occasionally get mistaken for a T when really I am totally F.
- I am good at languages.
- I study law. Perfect fit intellectually, not so much emotionally.
- I like distilling the essence of written sources of information.
- Very rarely, I am overwhelmed with sympathy for others and express it - even to complete strangers. This is totally out of character, as I'm normally quite reserved.
- Email over phone any day.
- I am very, very bad at dealing with conflict if it involves me. I find it extremely draining. I lose control and overreact when arguing.
- I usually don't rehearse conversations -- unless I have to confront someone. I prefer to resolve conflict by email, though, because I have much more control over myself that way.
- When I become nervous, I engage in very neurotic behavior and start distrusting my senses. For instance, I will check multiple times I've really answered every exam question.
- I find maintaining eye-contact for longer periods of time intrusive, exhausting and uncomfortable.
- I sometimes close my eyes when I think before replying.
- I'm fairly certain I am a type 2 (enneagram).

For what it’s worth, I’d much rather be ISFJ than ESFJ.

Sorry for being so verbose. I would just really like to figure this out.

 

[Flatlander]

Thank you very much for your answers. They are really helpful. :happy:

I am 99,9 % certain I am an SFJ.

What I’m not sure about is E or I. When I take online tests, I always get ISFJ, usually with a fairly pronounced I. My preferences are indeed mostly introvert. But somehow, I think I might be an extravert. I’m not convinced my orientation is internal.

The description of an ISFJ type overall rings truer than the ESFJ one. I am definitely not a „master of ceremony“. I dislike attention and much prefer small groups or better even, one-on-one interaction. Small talk is something I detest. Also, I’m more of a listener than a talker. I think I’m at my best when I'm able to listen and empathize or give advice. In most of my relationships, this is what actually happens -- usually without the other person noticing, which suits me just perfectly. At any rate, I place much more importance on listening than talking - regardless of which I'm better at or engage in more frequently.

I have seen it claimed that these type descriptions represent best people with preferences that are extreme. You could be a bigtime Si/Fe. I've also seen people claim to be ambiverted, which would mean their two leading functions are relatively balanced.

That said, I can be garrulous – especially when somethings fascinates me. Also, I’d say the inferior function description of an ESFJ sounds just as accurate as that of an ISFJ. Both have parts that fit 100%.

I haven't seen much evidence of inferior Ti in your answers here. Then again, that's from reading two posts, so yeah.

I’ve noticed that talking to a close person about a topic which fascinates me can launch me into overdrive. I usually feel both overexcited and exhausted after the discussion (if this makes any sense). I don’t like this at all. I need to be alone to become centered again.

That also points toward introversion; need to recharge internally from external activity.

I’ve noticed that some IJ acquaintances are actually quite messy. Could it be that the need for internal AND external order is a sign of being EJ?

Environment affects self, regardless of what preferences you have. And I have the impression that ISJ in particular might prefer a neat environment. (Case in point, my ISFJ mother is always intent on keeping a clean house.)

Some additional information:
- I love relating to people - in a quiet and personal setting.
- I am interested in individuals, not groups.
- I am interested in how I work (introspection). I try to understand others through understanding myself. My reference point for understanding others is my own experience.
- I want depth and intimacy in my relationships. I have no interest in loose relationships.

Clear introverted preference, in general.

- When it comes to knowledge, however, I have a generalist streak.

- Music deeply affects my emotional state. I am uncomfortable if I can't choose when and what is being played.

That also could point toward introversion. Dislike of disturbance of internal state.

- The ideal job would be a combination of one-on-one interaction (or small groups) and quiet periods.
- I like it quiet and somewhat secluded.

Introversion.

- I am good at logic as long as the topic is not abstract. I generally pick up on contradictions and can argue in a stringent matter. I suppose I might occasionally get mistaken for a T when really I am totally F.

This sounds like good Si>Ti use, potentially powerful for picking out details that do not fit into systems. Adaptation to culture could easily encourage this kind of development in people with an otherwise F preference.

- I am good at languages.

I think there is potential for anyone of any preference to be good at languages. Different types might tend to pick up more easily on different elements of language, though.

- I study law. Perfect fit intellectually, not so much emotionally.

Could easily be Si>Ti at work, with Fe dislike.

- I like distilling the essence of written sources of information.

I find that interesting, and would like to know more about what you mean by it.

- Very rarely, I am overwhelmed with sympathy for others and express it - even to complete strangers. This is totally out of character, as I'm normally quite reserved.

Fe; is this uncomfortable for you in any element other than breaking your reserve (if that is uncomfortable, even) ?

- Email over phone any day.

Introvert.

- I am very, very bad at dealing with conflict if it involves me. I find it extremely draining. I lose control and overreact when arguing.
- I usually don't rehearse conversations -- unless I have to confront someone. I prefer to resolve conflict by email, though, because I have much more control over myself that way.
- When I become nervous, I engage in very neurotic behavior and start distrusting my senses. For instance, I will check multiple times I've really answered every exam question.

I'm not sure about these. I don't know their explanation; could point in different directions. I've known my share of conflict-averse Fe AND Fi, lack of control over oneself in a conflict CAN be inferior Fe, and the distrust of senses CAN be inferior Se.

I'd say it depends on your thinking as these behaviors are going on. Why are you conflict-averse? Why do you distrust your senses?

- I find maintaining eye-contact for longer periods of time intrusive, exhausting and uncomfortable.
- I sometimes close my eyes when I think before replying.

Sounds introverted.

- I'm fairly certain I am a type 2 (enneagram).

Cool, and ISFJ is a type I could easily see fitting into 2, though the two are separate matters.

For what it’s worth, I’d much rather be ISFJ than ESFJ.

Sorry for being so verbose. I would just really like to figure this out.

Hopefully, so far, we've helped.

 

[Geo]

@Flatlander : Thank you so much for sharing your valuable insights. :happy:

I have seen it claimed that these type descriptions represent best people with preferences that are extreme. You could be a bigtime Si/Fe. I've also seen people claim to be ambiverted, which would mean their two leading functions are relatively balanced.

The type descriptions do sound a bit extremeto me, so what you said makes a lot of sense. What I can say is that I find a lot of ISFJ, many ESFJ and a few INFJ elements in me. If I look at inferior function/negative traits, the balance shifts slightly towards ESFJ.

I’ve noticed that talking to a close person about a topic which fascinates me can
launch me into overdrive. I usually feel both overexcited and exhausted after the
discussion (if this makes any sense). I don’t like this at all. I need to be alone to
become centered again.


That also points toward introversion; need to recharge internally from external activity.

The way I put it, definitely. But couldn't overexcitement mean that I derived energy from that conversation? And I first had "calming down" instead of "centered". Maybe I just don't know how to channel the energy?

I haven't seen much evidence of inferior Ti in your answers here. Then again, that's from reading two posts, so yeah
- I am good at logic as long as the topic is not abstract. I generally pick
up on contradictions and can argue in a stringent matter. I suppose I might
occasionally get mistaken for a T when really I am totally F.


This sounds like good Si>Ti use, potentially powerful for picking out details that do not fit into systems. Adaptation to culture could easily encourage this kind of development in people with an otherwise F preference.


- I study law. Perfect fit intellectually, not so much emotionally.

Could easily be Si>Ti at work, with Fe dislike.

Wow, this is highly interesting.

- I like distilling the essence of written sources of information.


I find that interesting, and would like to know more about what you mean by it.

My preferred method of learning is reading. When I read, I always highlight important pasages. I am very methodical about this (using different colors etc.). I need this to create order/structure and I feel good when I can filter out a lot of non-/less important information until only the core remains. When a text already contains highly compressed information, this approach doesn't work for me.

- Very rarely, I am overwhelmed with sympathy for others and express it -
even to complete strangers. This is totally out of character, as I'm normally
quite reserved.


Fe; is this uncomfortable for you in any element other than breaking your reserve (if that is uncomfortable, even) ?

I occasionally express deep affection towards people close to me (verbally or through hu gging etc.). I love doing this, but only when I'm deeply touched emotionally. I absolutely cannot fake this. It doesn't happen often and is never planned. When it does happen, though, it is real. Most of the time, though, I am laid-back

- I am very, very bad at dealing with conflict if it involves me. I find it extremely
draining. I lose control and overreact when arguing.
- I usually don't rehearse conversations -- unless I have to confront someone. I
prefer to resolve conflict by email, though, because I have much more control
over myself that way.
- When I become nervous, I engage in very neurotic behavior and start
distrusting my senses. For instance, I will check multiple times I've really
answered every exam question.

I'm not sure about these. I don't know their explanation; could point in different directions. I've known my share of conflict-averse Fe AND Fi, lack of control over oneself in a conflict CAN be inferior Fe, and the distrust of senses CAN be inferior Se.

I'd say it depends on your thinking as these behaviors are going on. Why are you conflict-averse? Why do you distrust your senses?

I am conflict-averse because I 1) crave harmony, 2) am distraught others might think me a bad person 3) usually feel I will lose in a confrontation. If I think I'm up-to-par or even "ahead" of someone, I am noticeably more willing to directly resolve a conflict.

As for distrusting my senses: When something is really important to me, I worry a lot it might go wrong. I worry so much, in fact, that I quadruple-check things and still am not 100% percent convinced of what I see. I am generally a neurotic person and this trait shoots through the roof when I get anxious. I become very controlling and pessimistic.


A couple of things that have come to my mind:
- I hate to be the one to keep a conversation going.
- I've had periods in my life when J shifted to P. Simultaneously, my level of empathy went through the roof compared to where it normally is.
- My memory is generally not that good. However, when I'm subconsciously(!) fascinated with something, it skyrockets.

- I care very much what (I think) other people think of me.
- I get an ego boost if I impress others (or by imagining how I impress others) with something I consider valuable. What I consider valuable is not derived from what society considers valuable, but what I personally hold in high esteem.
I hardly ever brag, though. Mostly, I just picture such situations.
- I suspect I have social anxiety. I have noticed that my behavior changes considerably on the rare occassions I'm self-confident; I automatically become much more assertive, direct, charming and also more open. I'd even say I display certain leadership qualities. Behaving like this then is natural, not forced nor exhausting (although the interactions themselves might still drain me; I don't know). What is exhausting is keeping up the self-confidence.
What does not change, however are my preferences. I still like things quiet, don't like small talk, etc. etc.

- I have a distinct tendency to draw conclusions quickly and also can be uncritical at times.
- I am not very good at putting myself in other people's mind/position. It's hard for me to imagine how one cannot view the world the way I do.

Most of these things sounds pretty extraverted to me. I just came across three questions to determine I/E and instinctively answered them like an extravert would:
1. Are you initiating or are you responding? Initiating (Note: This answer surprised me, btw.)
2. Do you prefer faster response or more time for reflection? Faster Response
3. Which do you value more in your life (where are your biggest priorities): Si (i.e. continuity and guarding against the unknown*) or Fe (i.e. productive relationships and solid collective values*)? Tendentially Fe



I'm starting to suspect my orientation is actually extravert but my preferences/behavior is predominantly introvert. I'm positive that social anxiety has been masking some of my extraverted traits. But most of my introverted preferences are real; they just are genuinely introvert.

 

[Ayia]

ISTJ? But that's just my first impression.

 

[Flatlander]

The type descriptions do sound a bit extremeto me, so what you said makes a lot of sense. What I can say is that I find a lot of ISFJ, many ESFJ and a few INFJ elements in me. If I look at inferior function/negative traits, the balance shifts slightly towards ESFJ.

You probably have a nice balance of Fe.

The way I put it, definitely. But couldn't overexcitement mean that I derived energy from that conversation? And I first had "calming down" instead of "centered". Maybe I just don't know how to channel the energy?

Possible.

I read it as a need to get back to a state you're comfortable in, which is also, to my mind, recharging. Everyone needs introversion and extraversion, just at different times, and in different quantities.

My preferred method of learning is reading. When I read, I always highlight important pasages. I am very methodical about this (using different colors etc.). I need this to create order/structure and I feel good when I can filter out a lot of non-/less important information until only the core remains. When a text already contains highly compressed information, this approach doesn't work for me.

Sounds rather Si.

I occasionally express deep affection towards people close to me (verbally or through hu gging etc.). I love doing this, but only when I'm deeply touched emotionally. I absolutely cannot fake this. It doesn't happen often and is never planned. When it does happen, though, it is real. Most of the time, though, I am laid-back

You have a good Fe. I'm not sure this particularly expressees intro/extro.

I am conflict-averse because I 1) crave harmony, 2) am distraught others might think me a bad person 3) usually feel I will lose in a confrontation. If I think I'm up-to-par or even "ahead" of someone, I am noticeably more willing to directly resolve a conflict.

Fe use, not sure what inferior tendencies it points to.

As for distrusting my senses: When something is really important to me, I worry a lot it might go wrong. I worry so much, in fact, that I quadruple-check things and still am not 100% percent convinced of what I see. I am generally a neurotic person and this trait shoots through the roof when I get anxious. I become very controlling and pessimistic.

The inclusion of possibilities here pointed me to inferior Ne, though I'm still not sure.

A couple of things that have come to my mind:
- I hate to be the one to keep a conversation going.

Coupled with below, finding yourself to be initiative; interesting.

- I've had periods in my life when J shifted to P. Simultaneously, my level of empathy went through the roof compared to where it normally is.

The J/P phenomenon in Myers-Briggs is something else. It's somewhat messed up for introverts, where ISFP would technically indicate a judging preference (Ji first) and ISFJ indicates a perceiving preference (Pi first).

If you take J/P at face value, then IxxJ means the extroverted function is Judging (in your case, Fe), while IxxP means it is Perceiving (which, if you had an ISFP preference, would be Se).

What was your level of F/T when you took the test most recently?

- My memory is generally not that good. However, when I'm subconsciously(!) fascinated with something, it skyrockets.

Memory doesn't have to be good to be any type.

- I care very much what (I think) other people think of me.

Fe.

- I get an ego boost if I impress others (or by imagining how I impress others) with something I consider valuable. What I consider valuable is not derived from what society considers valuable, but what I personally hold in high esteem.
I hardly ever brag, though. Mostly, I just picture such situations.

This doesn't sound as overtly Fe (possibly Fi), but I think it could be introvert + Fe.

- I suspect I have social anxiety. I have noticed that my behavior changes considerably on the rare occassions I'm self-confident; I automatically become much more assertive, direct, charming and also more open. I'd even say I display certain leadership qualities. Behaving like this then is natural, not forced nor exhausting (although the interactions themselves might still drain me; I don't know). What is exhausting is keeping up the self-confidence.
What does not change, however are my preferences. I still like things quiet, don't like small talk, etc. etc.

Still might be introvert, as introverts do not have to be constantly uncomfortable with extroversion; my own experience has been that it is sometimes natural. However, if you think this is an issue, it might be worth getting counseling, or help of some kind.

- I have a distinct tendency to draw conclusions quickly and also can be uncritical at times.

Si>Fe, I think.

- I am not very good at putting myself in other people's mind/position. It's hard for me to imagine how one cannot view the world the way I do.

Assuming ISFJ, that points me toward the Si preference.

Most of these things sounds pretty extraverted to me. I just came across three questions to determine I/E and instinctively answered them like an extravert would:
1. Are you initiating or are you responding? Initiating (Note: This answer surprised me, btw.)
2. Do you prefer faster response or more time for reflection? Faster Response
3. Which do you value more in your life (where are your biggest priorities): Si (i.e. continuity and guarding against the unknown*) or Fe (i.e. productive relationships and solid collective values*)? Tendentially Fe

I'm not sure about that third question. Si isn't my own strength by far, but from explorations of it I've read, I don't think it has to be guarding against the unknown, rather the positive drive is probably to be prepared and stabilize with experience. When it comes to unknowns that can't be resolved by experience, a healthy Si is probably open to new experiences (within reason) and knowledge to help understand the world better, which is also where Fe comes in for you, helping to forge some of the experiences you value most.

You could ask Owfin and some of the other bigger analysts for a better perspective on Si.

I'm starting to suspect my orientation is actually extravert but my preferences/behavior is predominantly introvert. I'm positive that social anxiety has been masking some of my extraverted traits. But most of my introverted preferences are real; they just are genuinely introvert.

This is probably why some people declare themselves ambiverts. It is possible that you have relatively good use of both Si and Fe, and also seems possible that you are going through a life period of developing more Fe to balance out your Si.

One thing I have tried to do with myself is understand where I have been at in different stages of my life, insofar as I can remember them (my own memory is strange), or get others to tell me what I was like. I am a clear introvert, and forged that preference in childhood, which matches what I am told, but at the same time, I also experience periods of extroversion that energize and engage me.

 

[retroscenery]

ISFJ. Lots of Si here and good use of Fe.

 

[Geo]

Again, thanks for all the answers. :happy:

You probably have a nice balance of Fe.

By that, do you mean a nice balance between Fe and Si?

- I hate to be the one to keep a conversation going.

Coupled with below, finding yourself to be initiative; interesting.

1. Are you initiating or are you responding? Initiating (Note: This answer
surprised me, btw.)

Tell me about it. :happy: But the answers was immediate and I felt sure of it (gut reaction). It's things like these that have me considering masked extraversion.

But couldn't overexcitement mean that I derived energy from that conversation? And I first had
"calming down" instead of "centered". Maybe I just don't know how to channel the energy?

Possible. I read it as a need to get back to a state you're comfortable in, which is also, to my mind, recharging. Everyone needs introversion and extraversion, just at different times, and in different quantities.

Ah, that makes a lot of sense to me. And you're right - I do not like the state of mind described.

I am conflict-averse because I 1) crave harmony, 2) am distraught others might think me a bad person 3) usually feel I will lose in a confrontation. If I think I'm up-to-par or even "ahead" of someone, I am noticeably more willing to directly resolve a conflict.

Fe use, not sure what inferior tendencies it points to.

As for distrusting my senses: When something is really important to me, I worry a lot it might go wrong. I worry so much, in fact, that I quadruple-check things and still am not 100% percent convinced of what I see. I am generally a neurotic person and this trait shoots through the roof when I get anxious. I become very controlling and pessimistic.

The inclusion of possibilities here pointed me to inferior Ne, though I'm still not sure.

Can you think of something which would be helpful in identifying my inferior function?

- I've had periods in my life when J shifted to P. Simultaneously, my level of
empathy went through the roof compared to where it normally is.

The J/P phenomenon in Myers-Briggs is something else. It's somewhatmessed up for introverts, where ISFP would technically indicate a judging preference (Ji first) and ISFJ indicates a perceiving preference (Pi first).

If you take J/P at face value, then IxxJ means the extroverted function is Judging (in your case, Fe), while IxxP means it is Perceiving (which, if you had an ISFP preference, would be Se).

What was your level of F/T when you took the test most recently?

High 80ies. It's the category where the results is always the most lopsided.

I may have been unprecise in categorizing my experience as "J to P switch". What happened was that I became much, much more empathetic and understanding of other people. I was very non-judgmental compared to how I normally am. The other thing that occured was that I was able to go with the flow instead of trying to plan everything.

- I get an ego boost if I impress others (or by imagining how I impress
others) with something I consider valuable. What I consider valuable is not
derived from what society considers valuable, but what I personally hold in high
esteem. I hardly ever brag, though. Mostly, I just picture such situations.

This doesn't sound as overtly Fe (possibly Fi), but I think it could be introvert + Fe.

Very interesting. One thing I've realized is that for all my need for social approval, I arrive at my values independantly. I do this by relying mainly on my experience and to a smaller degree on reason. I will not necessarily advertise my stance - especially if it is unpopular - but I will not betray it.
On a related note, I've noticed that since I'm pretty much unable to imagine how someone could judge with different values than I have, in a quirky way, while I know that many people don't share my values, I still feel they judge me based on mine.

- I suspect I have social anxiety. I have noticed that my behavior changes
considerably on the rare occassions I'm self-confident; I automatically become
much more assertive, direct, charming and also more open. I'd even say I display
certain leadership qualities. Behaving like this then is natural, not forced nor
exhausting (although the interactions themselves might still drain me; I don't
know). What is exhausting is keeping up the self-confidence.
What does not change, however are my preferences. I still like things quiet, don't
like small talk, etc. etc.

Still might be introvert, as introverts do not have to be constantly uncomfortable with extroversion; my own experience has been that it is sometimes natural. However, if you think this is an issue, it might be worth getting counseling, or help of some kind.

Thank you very much for your suggestion. It is definitely something I'm planning to do.

- I have a distinct tendency to draw conclusions quickly and also can be
uncritical at times.

Si>Fe, I think.

- I am not very good at putting myself in other people's mind/position. It's hard
for me to imagine how one cannot view the world the way I do.

Assuming ISFJ, that points me toward the Si preference.

I see. I associated these with ESFJ because I see it a lot in an ESFJ I know well.

I'm not sure about that third question. Si isn't my own strength by far, but from explorations of it I've read, I don't think it has to be guarding against the unknown, rather the positive drive is probably to be prepared and stabilize with experience. When it comes to unknowns that can't be resolved by experience, a healthy Si is probably open to new experiences (within reason) and knowledge to help understand the world better, which is also where Fe comes in for you, helping to forge some of the experiences you value most.

You could ask Owfin and some of the other bigger analysts for a better perspective on Si.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

As for Si: I have noticed that while I generally try to get ahead with things (as probably most do), I become extremely concerned about maintaing the status quo if I consider a situation non-improvable - even if the status quo is not optimal.

I'm starting to suspect my orientation is actually extravert but my
preferences/behavior is predominantly introvert. I'm positive that social anxiety
has been masking some of my extraverted traits. But most of my introverted
preferences are real; they just are genuinely introvert.

This is probably why some people declare themselves ambiverts. It is possible that you have relatively good use of both Si and Fe, and also seems possible that you are going through a life period of developing more Fe to balance out your Si.

One thing I have tried to do with myself is understand where I have been at in different stages of my life, insofar as I can remember them (my own memory is strange), or get others to tell me what I was like. I am a clear introvert, and forged that preference in childhood, which matches what I am told, but at the same time, I also experience periods of extroversion that energize and engage me.

This is a great explanation. I'm pretty sure you are dead on with this. I does seem to me I have a lot of Si and Fe.

Based on my recollection, I always displayed Fe. What I also remember is that I was always highly sensitive to outside stimuli. And I may have become more introverted over the years.

I'm not sure, though, what this might indicate regarding my primary function. I sometimes think that Si is more acquired than Fe; Fe is like what is always there under the surface. I do think I see more Si than Fe in my everyday behavior now, though.

What I can say is that I can relate to Fe more easily, but I think this mainly has to do with my weak grasp of these concepts; the description of Fe appears less abstract to me.


Kind Regards
Geo

 

[Flatlander]

Again, thanks for all your input. :happy:

Sure. Likewise, thanks for bearing with me. I'm testing my understanding a bit, since it's the first detailed attempt I've made at typing someone online and getting input back.

By that, do you mean a nice balance between Fe and Si?

I think I meant a good amount of Fe.

Tell me about it. :happy: But the answers was immediate and I felt sure of it (gut reaction). It's things like these that have me consider masked extraversion.

The reason that was interesting to me is because keeping the conversation going seems like it would be a strong suit of Fe?

It could also be a matter of something entirely different, though. Interactions with other people don't take place in a vacuum. Hence a potential issue I see with questions like these - they can miss the influencing nuances.

Do you have an suggestion what would be helpful in identifying my inferior function?

If we're trying to determine which of ISFJ or ESFJ you are, we need to consider whether your inferior function is Ti or Ne. Si/Ne and Fe/Ti produce two very distinct results, and this could actually prove illuminating about which functional pair contains your inferior, and hence your primary as well.

Let's see...

Ne allows for envisioning possibilities in the world around you. Inferior Ne in an Si/Ne type might manifest as an eruption of perceiving negative possibility/ies, leading to worry. From here, the following is also relevant: "The tertiary Thinking of ISFJs contributes the “logic” used to support negative possibilities regarding career, money, natural disasters, and so on."

Ti is discernment of intrinsic principles and logic. Inferior Ti in an Fe/Ti type might cause them to erupt in criticism, which can apparently be irrelevant to the person or situation, inflexibly categorical and so forth. From here, the following is also relevant: "The tertiary Intuition of ESFJs generates vague, negative “hypotheses” that affirm their convoluted “logical” critical stance about themselves and others."

(The first article lumps ISxJs together because Si is their leading function; the second lumps ExFJs together because Fe is their leading function.)

So which of these do you do more under stress; is the emphasis primarily on possibilities foreseen, or criticism with a logical-seeming basis? (You might back the possibilities up with logic, or the logic up with possibilities, but theoretically one or the other will still be your primary basis.)

High 80ies. It's the category where the results is always the most lopsided.

This could point to Fe dominance, if you are an xFSJ, though it could also not, since Myers-Briggs tests can have their faults.

There might be questions that are biased toward a certain functional attitude (for instance, a particular test might give Fe-slanted questions and not much Fi to determine Feeling preference).

And then there might be questions that confound the issue of how functions manifest (for instance, a question aimed at discerning iNtuition from Sensing might ask about a preference for focusing on "big picture" vs. "details", while many of whatever preference aim to grasp the big picture, they just do it in a different way.)

And so on.

I should have asked about S/N too, though, for completeness' sake. My mistake; sorry.

Very interesting. One thing I've realized is that for all my need for social approval, I arrive at my values independantly. I do this by relying mainly on my experience and to a smaller degree on reason. I will not necessarily advertise my stance - especially if it is unpopular - but I will not betray it.
On a related note, I've noticed is that since I'm pretty much unable to imagine how someone could judge with different values than I have, in a quirky way, while I know that many people don't share my values, I still feel they judge me based on mine.

If occurring in an xSFJ, Si and Fe involved. I'm still suspecting Si first, because of the degree of independence expressed.

I see. I associated these with ESFJ because I see it a lot in an ESFJ I know well.

It strikes me as a position based primarily in Si, reliant on your own experience. It could certainly be present in an ESFJ, though; they have the same functions.

As for Si: I have noticed that while I generally try to get ahead with things (as probably most do), I become extremely concerned about maintaing the status quo if things get rocky - even if the status quo is not optimal.

Gotcha.

Based on my recollection, I always had Fe, but have become a lot more introverted over the years. My Si preference and usage have increased considerably. I'm not sure, though, what this might indicate about which my primary function is. I sometimes think that Si is more acquired than Fe; Fe is like what is always there under the surface; I do think I see a lot more Si in my everyday behavior now, though.

ESFJ is possible, then, I would just say you have an excellently developed Si.

What I can say is that I relate to Fe more easily, but I think this mainly has to do with the fact that the description of Si seems more abstract to me (not my strong suit).

Si might be hard to pin down. When reading through material on Si here, I've gotten anything from Si being an internal, relatively concrete map of previous perceptions, to Si allowing for sensory impressions of things linked with experience (for instance, upon tasting a piece of fish: "It tastes like Japan."), and some other ideas. I suspect different people experience it differently.

 

[Geo]

Sure. Likewise, thanks for bearing with me. I'm testing my understanding a bit, since it's the first detailed attempt I've made at typing someone online and getting input back.

Happy to hear you’re getting something out of this as well. :happy:

Tell me about it. But the answers was immediate and I felt sure of it (gut reaction). It's things like these that have me consider masked extraversion.

The reason that was interesting to me is because keeping the conversation going seems like it would be a strong suit of Fe?
It could also be a matter of something entirely different, though. Interactions with other people don't take place in a vacuum. Hence a potential issue I see with questions like these - they can miss the influencing nuances.

Something related to this : I feel uncomfortable when there is silence in a conversation. Sharing silence is an extremely intimate thing to me. Also, I usually feel obliged to say something.

illuminating about which functional pair contains your inferior, and hence your primary as well.

Let's see...

Ne allows for envisioning possibilities in the world around you. Inferior Ne in an Si/Ne type might manifest as an eruption of perceiving negative possibility/ies, leading to worry. From here, the following is also relevant: "The tertiary Thinking of ISFJs contributes the “logic” used to support negative possibilities regarding career, money, natural disasters, and so on."

Ti is discernment of intrinsic principles and logic. Inferior Ti in an Fe/Ti type might cause them to erupt in criticism, which can apparently be irrelevant to the person or situation, inflexibly categorical and so forth. From here, the following is also relevant: "The tertiary Intuition of ESFJs generates vague, negative “hypotheses” that affirm their convoluted “logical” critical stance about themselves and others."

(The first article lumps ISxJs together because Si is their leading function; the second lumps ExFJs together because Fe is their leading function.)

So which of these do you do more under stress; is the emphasis primarily on possibilities foreseen, or criticism with a logical-seeming basis? (You might back the possibilities up with logic, or the logic up with possibilities, but theoretically one or the other will still be your primary basis.)

This is very helpful, but also very hard to wrap my head around.
I can become both, ridiculously pessimistic and overtly critical of other people, depending on the situation. When I criticize people unfairly, I know that my reasoning is not fair. I just can’t help myself. When I become pessimistic, I start painting the darkest scenarios which I back up by « logic »/past experiences. I have a much harder time distancing myself from this behavior ; I find my conclusions completely convincing in such situations.

What I know for sure is that I at least share some triggers with ESFJs :
« Extraverted Feeling types respond with inferior Introverted Thinking when they perceive they are being misunderstood, not trusted, not taken seriously, or pressured to conform to some prevailing view with which they disagree. »
This absolutely kills me. Another trigger – related to being misunderstood – is when in a confrontation I feel I’m not being given the chance to explain myself.
But then I can identify with typical ISFJ triggers as well:
« Stressful work environments for Introverted Sensing types are those that are chaotic, noisy, and disorganized; »

Sorry, this is probably not very helpful. If I had to choose, I’d very hesitantly go with inferior Ti. I’ll print out the inferior function descriptions and read them once more. Perhaps that will give me a clearer picture.

High 80ies. It's the category where the results is always the most lopsided.

This could point to Fe dominance, if you are an xFSJ, though it could also not, since Myers-Briggs tests can have their faults.

There might be questions that are biased toward a certain functional attitude (for instance, a particular test might give Fe-slanted questions and not much Fi to determine Feeling preference).

And then there might be questions that confound the issue of how functions manifest (for instance, a question aimed at discerning iNtuition from Sensing might ask about a preference for focusing on "big picture" vs. "details", while many of whatever preference aim to grasp the big picture, they just do it in a different way.)

And so on.

Totally makes sense to me. I’ve taken many online tests and while I almost always get the same type, the degree of each preference varies greatly. Also, it seems to me that these tests mostly measure behavior and not the underlying functions. I suppose the correlation between behavior and function is generally reliable, but not always.

I should have asked about S/N too, though, for completeness' sake. My mistake; sorry.

No worries. :happy:

Very interesting. One thing I've realized is that for all my need for social approval, I arrive at my values independantly. I do this by relying mainly on my experience and to a smaller degree on reason. I will not necessarily advertise my stance - especially if it is unpopular - but I will not betray it.
On a related note, I've noticed is that since I'm pretty much unable to imagine how someone could judge with different values than I have, in a quirky way, while I know that many people don't share my values, I still feel they judge me based on mine.

If occurring in an xSFJ, Si and Fe involved. I'm still suspecting Si first, because of the degree of independence expressed.

I see. This might tie in to to my weird relationship to groups (I’ve added all additional information at the end of this post).

Based on my recollection, I always had Fe, but have become a lot more introverted over the years. My Si preference and usage have increased considerably. I'm not sure, though, what this might indicate about which my primary function is. I sometimes think that Si is more acquired than Fe; Fe is like what is always there under the surface; I do think I see a lot more Si in my everyday behavior now, though.[/Quote]
ESFJ is possible, then, I would just say you have an excellently developed Si.[/Quote]
I edited this passage but was too slows, sorry about that. I think I did a poor job of answering your question. Let’s try again. I do remember that I had Fe since I can remember. But I was also always very sensitive to external stimuli (esp. noise). I was always told I was very perceptive. So I’m really not sure which function was stronger in my childhood.

I’ll include some things that have come to my mind. Hopefully, some are of use.
- I have a weird relationship to groups: On the one hand, I never feel part of a group; on the other hand, I do like to belong. I am collaborative and supportive but have never fully identified myself with a group I’ve been part of. I definitiely have an individualistic streak : I would never surrender my identity to a group. I also am very restistant to group pressure even though I crave others' approval.

- My « idols » always were the lone traveller kind : Quiet, self-determined, philosophical/spiritual, frugal, helping wherever they go but never becoming fully part of a community. A prime example of this is Musashi Myamoto.

- My favorite mode of interaction is inquisitive : trying to understand and help someone by asking questions; I love to do that -- when I'm sufficiently interested in the person I'm talking to.

- I’m very interested in is mediation.

- The act of getting rid of things always feel carthatic.

- I’m rather frugal.

- I often procrastinate. I avoid doing things I don’t like. This stresses me, because I need closure.

- From late childhood to early adulthood, I was a big sneaker head. Might that be an indicator of extraversion?

- I get self-satisfaction by helping others.

- I have a self-sacrificial tendency, although the vast majority of the time, it is dormant; I can be quite egoistic, actually.

- An example of my systematic approach is that I take pride in answering what I’m asked. In the same manner, I don’t like it when someone digresses.

- I like to observe – myself and others. Ironically, tough, I’m not very patient.

I suppose I could go on with this, but it probably wouldn’t be very helpful. Based on your descriptions, I figure it’s mostly Si and Fe ?

Best
Geo

 

[Flatlander]

Something related to this : I feel uncomfortable when there is silence in a conversation. Sharing silence is an extremely intimate thing to me. Also, I usually feel obliged to say something.

Interesting; if silence is intimate in your point of view, then perhaps you are talking in order to maintain distance. This seems like a point in favor of introversion, though my interpretation could also be off.

I can become both, ridiculously pessimistic and overtly critical of other people, depending on the situation. When I criticize people unfairly, I know that my reasoning is not fair. I just can’t help myself. When I become pessimistic, I start painting the darkest scenarios which I back up by « logic »/past experiences. I have a much harder time distancing myself from this behavior ; I find my conclusions completely convincing in such situations.

That you said you have a harder time distancing yourself from the Ne>Ti grip paints Ne as your weakest function in the xSFJ ordering.

If Ne is weakest, it generally stands to reason that Si is strongest.

What I know for sure is that I at least share some triggers with ESFJs :
« Extraverted Feeling types respond with inferior Introverted Thinking when they perceive they are being misunderstood, not trusted, not taken seriously, or pressured to conform to some prevailing view with which they disagree. »
This absolutely kills me. Another trigger – related to being misunderstood – is when in a confrontation I feel I’m not being given the chance to explain myself.

But then I can identify with typical ISFJ triggers as well:
« Stressful work environments for Introverted Sensing types are those that are chaotic, noisy, and disorganized; »

Which one of these do you find irritates you more, if you can compare?

That might be a difficult comparison, I suppose.

When you are responding with inferior thinking, does it have that extreme rigidity the ExFJ article seems to imply?

Sorry, this is probably not very helpful. If I had to choose, I’d very hesitantly go with inferior Ti. I’ll print out the inferior function descriptions and read them once more. Perhaps that will give me a clearer picture.

Alright.

Based on my recollection, I always had Fe, but have become a lot more introverted over the years. My Si preference and usage have increased considerably. I'm not sure, though, what this might indicate about which my primary function is. I sometimes think that Si is more acquired than Fe; Fe is like what is always there under the surface; I do think I see a lot more Si in my everyday behavior now, though.

When did you start becoming more introverted? There's a certain theory that says that people only start favoring their primary function around 6 or so, and I personally think there might be a lot more room for individual development than even that. Childhood is a strange time.

Possibility: your cognitive function "snapshot", at the current time, looks ISFJ; though you had Fe first, your Si is overall more developed.

I edited this passage but was too slows, sorry about that. I think I did a poor job of answering your question. Let’s try again. I do remember that I had Fe since I can remember. But I was also always very sensitive to external stimuli (esp. noise). I was always told I was very perceptive. So I’m really not sure which function was stronger in my childhood.

"Very perceptive" could point to good use of S or N functions, I think. From what you said preceding it, I take it for you this meant you didn't miss sensorydetails, which can be Se or Si.

"Internal perception" can be kind of background-ish; isolating it makes it seem all the more abstract and just.. "there".

So, I think if you are a Si or Ni dom, especially if you're interacting with anything external (which we do constantly), a judging function kind of has to fill in, otherwise you can't really make anything of your perceptions. I'm wondering if this might make the Je (in your case, Fe) stand out more, because it's always there when you extravert.

Or, the Fe standing out rather than Si might really mean it is your primary function.

Coincident question: Did you spend more time in your head as a child, processing experiences (even after the moment, like Si-doms seem prone to do), or did you spend more time extraverting, maybe especially with people (Fe)? (Since this is, after all, supposed to be a measurement of preferences, not ability.)

I’ll include some things that have come to my mind. Hopefully, some are of use.
- I have a weird relationship to groups: On the one hand, I never feel part of a group; on the other hand, I do like to belong. I am collaborative and supportive but have never fully identified myself with a group I’ve been part of. I definitiely have an individualistic streak : I would never surrender my identity to a group. I also am very restistant to group pressure even though I crave others' approval.

It might be that your Fe is not primary, or that your Fe is primary yet underdeveloped. (Or, a possibility which we haven't been exploring here, that you are mistyped and actually have Fi; since you seem confident, though, and largely Fe, I haven't been pressing it.)

You might enjoy this article, which considers different levels of Feeling development. I have come across the sane idea, from several sources, that even Feeling doms tend not to develop their Feeling to its fullest potential in our modern culture, which might also be relevant.

- My « idols » always were the lone traveller kind : Quiet, self-determined, philosophical/spiritual, frugal, helping wherever they go but never becoming fully part of a community. A prime example of this is Musashi Myamoto.

Sounds Pi>Fe. Could be Ni or Si.

- My favorite mode of interaction is inquisitive : trying to understand and help someone by asking questions; I love to do that -- when I'm sufficiently interested in the person I'm talking to.

Not sure this necessarily points to a function, I think it is a tactic that Ji/Pe and Pi/Je could use equally well, in whichever order, if towards different ends.

- I’m very interested in is mediation.

- The act of getting rid of things always feel carthatic.

- I’m rather frugal.

Out of curiosity (I enjoy inquisition too ), are you aware of the reasons you pursue these? They seem connected.

- I often procrastinate. I avoid doing things I don’t like. This stresses me, because I need closure.

That kind of hits me as a Pi/Je, IxxJ-type tendency. The Pi leads you to indulge more in what you like to do, and yet the Je wants closure; the lack of achieving it would be concerning. (I could definitely be wrong here, it's just a theory.)

- From late childhood to early adulthood, I was a big sneaker head. Might that be an indicator of extraversion?

What is a sneaker head? I grew up in an introvert bubble, and common lingo usually still escapes me.

- I get self-satisfaction by helping others.

Fe.

- I have a self-sacrificial tendency, although the vast majority of the time, it is dormant; I can be quite egoistic, actually.

Si>Fe, or Fi.

Perhaps more relevant is Enneagram 2!

- An example of my systematic approach is that I take pride in answering what I’m asked. In the same manner, I don’t like it when someone digresses.

It sounds like Si>Fe>Ti. The Si/Ti working together keep you systematic in the procedure, the Fe gives you that pride.

The fact that you cited taking pride in doing this as a systematic approach, though, seems rather Fe. Your overall "system" here is to care for others' needs, which you feel strongly about.

- I like to observe – myself and others. Ironically, tough, I’m not very patient.

Si, with Fe when interacting actively.

I suppose I could go on with this, but it probably wouldn’t be very helpful. Based on your descriptions, I figure it’s mostly Si and Fe ?

Mostly.

Honestly, I like to think of the functions as speaking more to potential for action, rather than simply being statically there. A cognitive profile is a two-dimensional "snapshot" for a three-dimensional being who is constantly in motion, whose actions and thinking will simply call on different functions at different times.

If you're calling more on Si (even simply by introverting, if it is what you "do" naturally when you introvert), you will probably develop it to a deeper level over time. Same with any other function.

If you worked more using Si(>Fe) overall, you would seem, at the current moment, to have greater use of Si. If you worked more using Fe(>Si), likewise. Hence, some talk of overall introversion and extraversion being preferences, which you can interpret as consciously preferred because of what we are comfortable with (more developed in), but at an extreme they might be real dependencies, or at a point where control isn't taken (or neither is consciously preferred, or lesser stages of mental development) perhaps they can just be tendencies.

Perhaps you actually prefer Fe, but tend toward Si/introversion (which kind of fits what you were talking about, your true functional order being masked by underconfidence). Yet, your apparent underlying bent toward personal removal still points me toward overall introversion.

It is something I do similarly, as an introvert, and in fact have a long history of doing.

 

[Geo]

Great stuff, thanks. Might take me some time to reply - but reply I will. :happy:

Best
Geo

 

[Flatlander]

Great stuff, thanks. Might take me some time to reply - but reply I will. :happy:

Best
Geo

You're welcome; sure thing.

 

[Geo]

I can become both, ridiculously pessimistic and overtly critical of other people, depending on the situation. When I criticize people unfairly, I know that my reasoning is not fair. I just can’t help myself. When I become pessimistic, I start painting the darkest scenarios which I back up by « logic »/past experiences. I have a much harder time distancing myself from this behavior ; I find my conclusions completely convincing in such situations.

That you said you have a harder time distancing yourself from the Ne>Ti grip paints Ne as your weakest function in the xSFJ ordering.

That’s a great point.

When you are responding with inferior thinking, does it have that extreme rigidity the ExFJ article seems to imply?

I don’t know, to be honest. I’ll try to pay attention this from now on.

What I know for sure is that I at least share some triggers with ESFJs :
« Extraverted Feeling types respond with inferior Introverted Thinking when they perceive they are being misunderstood, not trusted, not taken seriously, or pressured to conform to some prevailing view with which they disagree. »
This absolutely kills me. Another trigger – related to being misunderstood – is when in a confrontation I feel I’m not being given the chance to explain myself.

But then I can identify with typical ISFJ triggers as well:
« Stressful work environments for Introverted Sensing types are those that are chaotic, noisy, and disorganized; »

Which one of these do you find irritates you more, if you can compare? That might be a difficult comparison, I suppose.

I’d very hesitantly tend toward the Fe reaction.

I edited this passage but was too slow, sorry about that. I think I did a poor job of answering your question. Let’s try again. I do remember that I had Fe since I can remember. But I was also always very sensitive to external stimuli (esp. noise). I was always told I was very perceptive. So I’m really not sure which function was stronger in my childhood.

"Very perceptive" could point to good use of S or N functions, I think. From what you said preceding it, I take it for you this meant you didn't miss sensorydetails, which can be Se or Si.

Yes, I was referring to sensory details.

Coincident question: Did you spend more time in your head as a child, processing experiences (even after the moment, like Si-doms seem prone to do), or did you spend more time extraverting, maybe especially with people (Fe)? (Since this is, after all, supposed to be a measurement of preferences, not ability.)

I guess I spent more time extraverting. On a related note, I was very active physically. What has to be factored in, however, is that I’m likely ADHD.

I have a weird relationship to groups: On the one hand, I never feel part of a group; on the other hand, I do like to belong. I am collaborative and supportive but have never fully identified myself with a group I’ve been part of. I definitiely have an individualistic streak : I would never surrender my identity to a group. I also am very restistant to group pressure even though I crave others' approval.

It might be that your Fe is not primary, or that your Fe is primary yet underdeveloped. (Or, a possibility which we haven't been exploring here, that you are mistyped and actually have Fi; since you seem confident, though, and largely Fe, I haven't been pressing it.)

Thinking back on my life, underdeveloped Fe seems likely.

Fi-dom and Fi-aux seem improbable to me, at least if one sticks to MBTI. I’m neither N nor P – that I’m pretty sure of. The xSFJ type defintely describes me very well overall.

You might enjoy this article, which considers different levels of Feeling development. I have come across the sane idea, from several sources, that even Feeling doms tend not to develop their Feeling to its fullest potential in our modern culture, which might also be relevant.

Thank you, I really liked the article. What you say makes total sense to me. Our educuational system/culture seems totally biased toward extraversion and thinking. There’s another article on this on the site you mentioned where the case is made that the modern day protoype is ESTJ ("Toward a Diversity of Psychological Type in Organization: Part Three"). It appears the further you deviate from this type, the more likely you’ll clash with society. That’s exactly what I see when I look around. It’s scary. The most « succesful » people I know strike me as ESTJs indeed, and the one’s considered « weird » and/or struggling are INTJ and INTP.

- I’m very interested in is mediation.
- The act of getting rid of things always feel carthatic.
- I’m rather frugal.

Out of curiosity (I enjoy inquisition too ), are you aware of the reasons you pursue these? They seem connected.

:happy: That’s a very interesting thought.
Getting rid of things allows me to create order and loosens the grip of attachment.
Being frugal appeals to me because I associate it with modesty, independence, simplicity, order and it’s ecological.

I often procrastinate. I avoid doing things I don’t like. This stresses me, because I need closure.

That kind of hits me as a Pi/Je, IxxJ-type tendency. The Pi leads you to indulge more in what you like to do, and yet the Je wants closure; the lack of achieving it would be concerning. (I could definitely be wrong here, it's just a theory.)

Intriguing.

From late childhood to early adulthood, I was a big sneaker head. Might that be an indicator of extraversion?
What is a sneaker head? I grew up in an introvert bubble, and common lingo usually still escapes me.

I see. :happy: A sneaker head is someone who is into sneakers a lot.

I get self-satisfaction by helping others.

Fe.

I have a self-sacrificial tendency, although the vast majority of the time, it is dormant; I can be quite egoistic, actually.

Si>Fe, or Fi. Perhaps more relevant is Enneagram 2!

I’m not sure I understand. Self-satisfaction by helping others is Fe. By that reasoning, self-sacrifice alone would be Fe as well, right? Consequently, what makes you think of Si>Fe or Fi is the combination of altruistic urges with sometimes egoistic, self-centered behavior?

An example of my systematic approach is that I take pride in answering what I’m asked. In the same manner, I don’t like it when someone digresses.

It sounds like Si>Fe>Ti. The Si/Ti working together keep you systematic in the procedure, the Fe gives you that pride.
The fact that you cited taking pride in doing this as a systematic approach, though, seems rather Fe. Your overall "system" here is to care for others' needs, which you feel strongly about.

Interesting that pride is Fe. I think „pride“ doesn’t exactly describe how I feel about it. Yet, it may fit perfectly – I’m just not conscious of it.

I’m still trying to figure out whether my Ti might really be inferior.
You may have noticed I’m quite verbose. Might this indicate weak Ti ? I notice that words come easy to me when I write. I can be on point, but I have to make an effort. When I talk, it totally depends. When the conversation is superficial, words come easily. When I’m interested, I think it’s the other way around – I have to search for words and am quite economical in their use. As mentioned, I’ll frequently close my eyes before answering.

Honestly, I like to think of the functions as speaking more to potential for action, rather than simply being statically there. A cognitive profile is a two-dimensional "snapshot" for a three-dimensional being who is constantly in motion, whose actions and thinking will simply call on different functions at different times.

If you're calling more on Si (even simply by introverting, if it is what you "do" naturally when you introvert), you will probably develop it to a deeper level over time. Same with any other function.

If you worked more using Si(>Fe) overall, you would seem, at the current moment, to have greater use of Si. If you worked more using Fe(>Si), likewise. Hence, some talk of overall introversion and extraversion being preferences, which you can interpret as consciously preferred because of what we are comfortable with (more developed in), but at an extreme they might be real dependencies, or at a point where control isn't taken (or neither is consciously preferred, or lesser stages of mental development) perhaps they can just be tendencies.

Perhaps you actually prefer Fe, but tend toward Si/introversion (which kind of fits what you were talking about, your true functional order being masked by underconfidence). Yet, your apparent underlying bent toward personal removal still points me toward overall introversion.

It is something I do similarly, as an introvert, and in fact have a long history of doing.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. Very interesting. I like the snapshot analogy.
If I may ask, how do I give off the impression of preferring personal removal?
After doing some more reading and thinking, I still tend ever so slightly toward extraversion, but some things – such as not liking group activities etc – just don’t seem to fit.

Best :happy:
Geo

 

[Flatlander]

I guess I spent more time extraverting. On a related note, I was very active physically. What has to be factored in, however, is that I’m likely ADHD.

Not sure exactly how the ADHD would influence the type you seem to be. Do you think it leads you to extravert more?

Thinking back on my life, underdeveloped Fe seems likely.

Fi-dom and Fi-aux seem improbable to me, at least if one sticks to MBTI.

As a cognitive function, Fi is inward-focused and typically doesn’t put as much weight as Fe on communal values and traditions. It has more independent ideals.

Some of what you said is mildly Fi-ish, but Feeling seems kind of fluid to me. Manifestations of Fi and Fe can somewhat look like each other, and it seems like especially differentiated Fi/Fe users can mimic each other’s priorities to some extent for different reasons.

Edit: Here is a thread I have been reading on Fe. It's a good one. In particular, take a look at LiquidLight's post on Fe and Fi; he has a strong understanding of functions.

I’m neither N nor P – that I’m pretty sure of. The xSFJ type defintely describes me very well overall.

From a cognitive functions standpoint, P doesn’t really exist, and N has two variants: Ne, Ni. Both variants come paired with a Sensing function: Ne|Si and Ni|Se.

So far, you have seemed well enough to have the Si>Ne pairing. This doesn’t mean you “aren’t N”, it means your intuition tends to be drowned out by your sensing, or perhaps serve it.

Thank you, I really liked the article. What you say makes total sense to me. Our educuational system/culture seems totally biased toward extraversion and thinking. There’s another article on this on the site you mentioned where the case is made that the modern day protoype is ESTJ ("Toward a Diversity of Psychological Type in Organization: Part Three"). It appears the further you deviate from this type, the more likely you’ll clash with society. That’s exactly what I see when I look around. It’s scary. The most « succesful » people I know strike me as ESTJs indeed, and the one’s considered « weird » and/or struggling are INTJ and INTP.

I don’t know. Different people struggle for different reasons, and in the case of the INTP, the inferior Fe might indeed make it a struggle to get by, especially in a society that is quite reliant on the Fe they ironically undervalue.

But neither of those diagnoses necessarily means the person will fail. It just means that they will have to learn to play on their strengths to succeed in life. That goes the same for all of us.

Also, you’re welcome. I found it equally interesting.

:happy: That’s a very interesting thought.
Getting rid of things allows me to create order and loosens the grip of attachment.
Being frugal appeals to me because I associate it with modesty, independence, simplicity, order and it’s ecological.

Ah, here we can talk Fi vs. Fe:

Do these values stem from a tradition you are part of, or did you choose them relatively independently of outside influence?

I see. :happy: A sneaker head is someone who is into sneakers a lot.

Aha, no metaphor involved. That doesn’t necessarily have to mean anything, it could probably represent any function, depending on the thinking behind it.

I’m not sure I understand. Self-satisfaction by helping others is Fe. By that reasoning, self-sacrifice alone would be Fe as well, right? Consequently, what makes you think of Si>Fe or Fi is the combination of altruistic urges with sometimes egoistic, self-centered behavior?

Self-sacrifice seems relatively Fe-ish: Fe is about putting others above self in forming your values, and it seems like values are the probable cause of doing such a thing.

I think of Fi as being, by default, more self-centering. Fi can be egoistic, and can also be altruistically expressed, and so forth, but it depends on the person's chosen core.

I think Si>Fe could appear somewhat like Fi, if the person’s tradition or experience (Si) leads them to understand relevant morals as positively felt by the group (Fe).

Anyhow, as usual, what matters is not the typical function associated with the specific conclusion reached, but how the person is getting there.

Interesting that pride is Fe. I think „pride“ doesn’t exactly describe how I feel about it. Yet, it may fit perfectly – I’m just not conscious of it.

It’s alright. I think I got the idea of what you were trying to say, and the point was more that you emphasized a positive feeling associated with being of service to others, less important which specific feeling it is.

If this isn’t the case, feel free to explain further.

I’m still trying to figure out whether my Ti might really be inferior.
You may have noticed I’m quite verbose. Might this indicate weak Ti ? I notice that words come easy to me when I write. I can be on point, but I have to make an effort.

Being verbose is absolutely not a sign of inferior Ti. Anyone can be verbose or curt, depending on what they have to say, though I’ve noticed people with Ne functioning strongly can be particularly verbose, because of an overabundance of ideas.

On the other hand, strong-functioning Ti or Te might lead to a more succinct structure when writing, and that could indeed include being on point. I think the fact that you need to make effort but don't find it impossible is evocative of a tertiary Ti, not inferior.

But then again, consider that people can acquire skills that don’t stereotypically fit their cognitive set, especially with a strong personal drive or high level of inculcation to a standard. I was recently reading the thread of an ENFJ (Fe Ni) who teaches in a profession that deals strongly in logic and reasoning.

When I talk, it totally depends. When the conversation is superficial, words come easily. When I’m interested, I think it’s the other way around – I have to search for words and am quite economical in their use. As mentioned, I’ll frequently close my eyes before answering.

Superficial = Fe, some Si
Interested = Si and Fe and Ti. Especially that you feel the need to be economical, and what I read to mean precise.

If I may ask, how do I give off the impression of preferring personal removal?
After doing some more reading and thinking, I still tend ever so slightly toward extraversion, but some things – such as not liking group activities etc – just don’t seem to fit.

Best :happy:
Geo

Illustrative:

I have a weird relationship to groups: On the one hand, I never feel part of a group; on the other hand, I do like to belong. I am collaborative and supportive but have never fully identified myself with a group I’ve been part of. I definitiely have an individualistic streak : I would never surrender my identity to a group. I also am very restistant to group pressure even though I crave others' approval.

The separation is underlying and subtle, but there. You collaborate, support, but do not identify; this means you are still personally removed from them.

- My « idols » always were the lone traveller kind : Quiet, self-determined, philosophical/spiritual, frugal, helping wherever they go but never becoming fully part of a community. A prime example of this is Musashi Myamoto.

I’m not sure what the true analysts would say about your idols versus who you are, but I think people often fashion themselves after the people they look up to. The “lone travellers” you talk about seem more generally introverted, which would seem to make them IxFJ.

 

[Geo]

Not sure exactly how the ADHD would influence the type you seem to be. Do you think it leads you to extravert more?

It makes me nervous, more talkative and interrupt people. I appear more extraverted than I am for sure. I've tried medication and became more calm, focused and much better at listening to other people.
I've heard people speculate that ADD-introversion and ADHD-extraversion. I don't know if there has been research.

As a cognitive function, Fi is inward-focused and typically doesn’t put as much weight as Fe on communal values and traditions. It has more independent ideals.

Some of what you said is mildly Fi-ish, but Feeling seems kind of fluid to me. Manifestations of Fi and Fe can somewhat look like each other, and it seems like especially differentiated Fi/Fe users can mimic each other’s priorities to some extent for different reasons.

Edit:Here is a thread I have been reading on Fe. It's a good one. In particular, take a look at LiquidLight's post on Fe and Fi; he has a strong understanding of functions.

Thank you very much for the input and the link. I've looke into the function description of Fi. I don't think I use Fi often. Fe sound much more like me. With the exception of some values, but that may be accounted for by Si (see comment on value-setting below).

A friend of mine sounds like the archetypical Fi user, BTW. Really fascinating.

I don’t know. Different people struggle for different reasons, and in the case of the INTP, the inferior Fe might indeed make it a struggle to get by, especially in a society that is quite reliant on the Fe they ironically undervalue.

But neither of those diagnoses necessarily means the person will fail. It just means that they will have to learn to play on their strengths to succeed in life. That goes the same for all of us.

Oh, I totally agree. Sorry for not being more concise. My impression, based on acquaintances, is that it's absolutely possible to do well as, say, an INFP, but it takes more effort. Being a healthy (male) ESTJ of good intelligence, odds are you'll do well professionally and relationship-wise.

Getting rid of things allows me to create order and loosens the grip of attachment.
Being frugal appeals to me because I associate it with modesty, independence, simplicity, order and it’s ecological.

Ah, here we can talk Fi vs. Fe:
Do these values stem from a tradition you are part of, or did you choose them relatively independently of outside influence?

[...]

I think Si>Fe could appear somewhat like Fi, if the person’s tradition or experience (Si) leads them to understand relevant morals as positively felt by the group (Fe).

Anyhow, as usual, what matters is not the typical function associated with the specific conclusion reached, but how the person is getting there.

Your explanation is highly interesting. Thanks a lot.

Reading the function descriptions of Fe and Fi, I noticed that I'm overall very much Fe, BUT several key values of mine do not correspond to what is popular - quite the contrary. In case of some of these values, I used to go with what was the pre-dominant position, but have changed my mind about them. Why? Because of my personal experiences; I put my personal experience over anything else.

In light of this, your explanation would make perfect sense - it sounds very much like several of my values have been informed by Si.
But does this automatically mean that Si is my dominant function? Or is it possible that my putting Si over Fe is limited to some areas of my life - like the setting of values?

I can't imagine how someone could accept a specific prevailing social belief, if that belief was in direct violation of his own experience. Wouldn't even e Fe-dom stick to the latter?

I always found it odd that I'm at the same very mindful of what others think of me and yet display some indepence because my beliefs are chiefly informed by my experience. Thanks to you, I have a possible explanation of the mechanism.

On the other hand, strong-functioning Ti or Te might lead to a more succinct structure when writing, and that could indeed include being on point. I think the fact that you need to make effort but don't find it impossible is evocative of a tertiary Ti, not inferior.

But then again, consider that people can acquire skills that don’t stereotypically fit their cognitive set, especially with a strong personal drive or high level of inculcation to a standard. I was recently reading the thread of an ENFJ (Fe Ni) who teaches in a profession that deals strongly in logic and reasoning.

That's interesting. It definitely takes effort for me to be succinct, but I can do it - pretty well, actually. When turning in papers, structure and clarity are almost always strong points. But again - writing eliminates the time element. I'm not sure how well I'd do under pressure.

When I talk, it totally depends. When the conversation is superficial, words come easily. When I’m interested, I think it’s the other way around – I have to search for words and am quite economical in their use. As mentioned, I’ll frequently close my eyes before answering.

Superficial = Fe, some Si
Interested = Si and Fe and Ti. Especially that you feel the need to be economical, and what I read to mean precise.

This, then, probably indicates frequent Fe and Si use - bot does not allow for conclusions which is preferred. Correct?

I have a weird relationship to groups: On the one hand, I never feel part of a group; on the other hand, I do like to belong. I am collaborative and supportive but have never fully identified myself with a group I’ve been part of. I definitiely have an individualistic streak : I would never surrender my identity to a group. I also am very restistant to group pressure even though I crave others' approval.

The separation is underlying and subtle, but there. You collaborate, support, but do not identify; this means you are still personally removed from them.

I see, thanks for explaining.

I've paid some attention when being in public and I've realized that I'm almost constantly thinking of how I'm perceived by others. I wonder if a Si-dom Fe-secondary would do this as much.

- My « idols » always were the lone traveller kind : Quiet, self-determined, philosophical/spiritual, frugal, helping wherever they go but never becoming fully part of a community. A prime example of this is Musashi Myamoto.

I’m not sure what the true analysts would say about your idols versus who you are, but I think people often fashion themselves after the people they look up to. The “lone travellers” you talk about seem more generally introverted, which would seem to make them IxFJ.

Theoretically, the idols could reflect the characteristics one strives to develop at a certain point in life. So being Si-dom would account for this equally well as being Fe-dom and going through a phase where Si-aux development is taking place?
It would be interesting to remember who my pre-teen idols were.

I took a cognitive functions test some days ago. Here's the result:
- Se: 23.2 (limited use)
- Si: 42.5 (excellent use)
- Ne: 23.3 (limited use)
- Ni: 26.1 (limited use)
- Te: 28.1 (average use)
- Ti: 20.1 (limited use)
- Fe: 37.5 (excellent use)
- Fi: 38.4 (excellent use)





Cheers :happy:
Geo

 

[Flatlander]

It makes me nervous, more talkative and interrupt people. I appear more extraverted than I am for sure. I've tried medication and became more calm, focused and much better at listening to other people.
I've heard people speculate that ADD-introversion and ADHD-extraversion. I don't know if there has been research.

I don't know either.

This is interesting to me, because - if I'm not mistaken - both of these are defined as overactivity in certain areas of the brain. I thought part of the defining factor in introversion vs. extraversion was supposed to be level of brain activity when unstimulated - introverts will be high, extraverts low. Introverts get easily hyperstimulated by the external world and become cautious about their actions, while extraverts are calmer about it, and have less perceived need to restrain themselves. (Not particularly talking MBTI here.)

Then again, that could be far too generalized.

Thank you very much for the input and the link. I've looke into the function description of Fi. I don't think I use Fi often. Fe sound much more like me. With the exception of some values, but that may be accounted for by Si (see comment on value-setting below).

A friend of mine sounds like the archetypical Fi user, BTW. Really fascinating.

Figured you might be interested, even if you are quite Fe

Oh, I totally agree. Sorry for not being more concise. My impression, based on acquaintances, is that it's absolutely possible to do well as, say, an INFP, but it takes more effort. Being a healthy (male) ESTJ of good intelligence, odds are you'll do well professionally and relationship-wise.

I haven't found you unconcise at all.

I suppose it might take more effort to fit into the bounds of this society with certain preferences. An INFP's saving grace, though, might be the Ne, which will lead them to be more open-ended and consider more options - they might do well finding a place for themselves in the world, rather than depending on others to accept them.

Reading the function descriptions of Fe and Fi, I noticed that I'm overall very much Fe, BUT several key values of mine do not correspond to what is popular - quite the contrary. In case of some of these values, I used to go with what was the pre-dominant position, but have changed my mind about them. Why? Because of my personal experiences; I put my personal experience over anything else.

In light of this, your explanation would make perfect sense - it sounds very much like several of my values have been informed by Si.
But does this automatically mean that Si is my dominant function? Or is it possible that my putting Si over Fe is limited to some areas of my life - like the setting of values?

Let's pose a hypothetical.

Say you have a kid who is about to do something you don't approve of. You're going to try to talk to them; how do you do it? What do you rely on?

My mother, whom I'm rather sure is ISFJ, qualifies her statements immediately with her experience (Si), which she claims has taught her that what I do is going to create problems for me with other people (Fe). The Si envelops the Fe. Because it causes her stress to see me deviate, she will then jump to posing possibilities of everything that could go wrong (inferior Ne).

I imagine an ESFJ might have more of an immediate emphasis on "people just don't do it that way" (Fe), maybe with some backup from tradition (Si). Stress will probably bring into the picture overcritical rationalizing which might be emotionally charged (inferior Ti)

I can't imagine how someone could accept a specific prevailing social belief, if that belief was in direct violation of his own experience. Wouldn't even e Fe-dom stick to the latter?

Acceptance here might have a higher probability in a healthy Fe-dom, but:

That might also depend a bit on Fe-Ni and Fe-Si, and how developed the auxiliaries are.

Fe-Ni would look different to Fe-Si; Si backs up the Fe with personal experience (Si being prevalent would be more likely to make it seem like one's values are coming from within), and Ni draws the Fe into viewing things from different angles. The Fe-Ni might be more inclined to self-sacrifice for a sense of deeper significance, while maybe? the Fe-Si likewise for a sense of more deeply experienced togetherness.

I always found it odd that I'm at the same very mindful of what others think of me and yet display some indepence because my beliefs are chiefly informed by my experience. Thanks to you, I have a possible explanation of the mechanism.

Glad to hear it.

That's interesting. It definitely takes effort for me to be succinct, but I can do it - pretty well, actually. When turning in papers, structure and clarity are almost always strong points. But again - writing eliminates the time element. I'm not sure how well I'd do under pressure.

Pressure...hrm. Might it make you more inclined to stress (which I think might lead you to that habit of overchecking things for consistency)?

This, then, probably indicates frequent Fe and Si use - bot does not allow for conclusions which is preferred. Correct?
I see, thanks for explaining.

That you seem to introvert more to respond when something is important to you is interesting, if inconclusive.

I've paid some attention when being in public and I've realized that I'm almost constantly thinking of how I'm perceived by others. I wonder if a Si-dom Fe-secondary would do this as much.

That seems to require taking in details first (Si), and the emphasis is still on perception, as well as internal cogitation. I'm pretty sure it can easily be an Si>Fe habit.

Does this thinking agitate you, make you worry, anything like that? Does it happen because you're worried?

Theoretically, the idols could reflect the characteristics one strives to develop at a certain point in life. So being Si-dom would account for this equally well as being Fe-dom and going through a phase where Si-aux development is taking place?
It would be interesting to remember who my pre-teen idols were.

It definitely could mean either of those.

I took a cognitive functions test some days ago. Here's the result:
- Se: 23.2 (limited use)
- Si: 42.5 (excellent use)
- Ne: 23.3 (limited use)
- Ni: 26.1 (limited use)
- Te: 28.1 (average use)
- Ti: 20.1 (limited use)
- Fe: 37.5 (excellent use)
- Fi: 38.4 (excellent use)

These tests can be quite off, but assuming the answers are an accurate reflection, your profile looks relatively ambiverted, since both Si|Fe and Ne|Ti pairings are so close.

What are you thinking, overall?