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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
It seems that a lot of people learning about the Enneagram types on their own piece things together little by little and sometimes get themselves all tangled in knots and confused (though they may not even know it but you can hear it). Seems to me that building from an initial foundation would be more productive.

1. Learn the types first and forget the other stuff until you've got a good handle on them. I could say learn your own type first but you may have to learn something about all the types to even determine your own type.

2. Begin exploring the variations of type with the wings, instincts, Tritype, etc. I think it's easier to build off the nine types (variations of a type) rather than look at all the variations at once (27 instinctual subtypes, 54 instinctual variants, who knows how may Tritypes).

3. Then start pulling in all the other pieces and concepts to further build on your base of understanding.

What approach or direction do you find works well?
 

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Probably hands-on direct experience in a group setting with a patient teacher.

Doing this by yourself is much, much, harder, and does, indeed, often lead to a tangled up mess. I should know lol.

Second best would be books books books. And videos of those group settings.

And use the KISS approach <3 <3 <3
Keep It Simple Stupid. Seriously though, there really is no point in looking at possible tritype if you can't see your type's motivation working in you yet.
 

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1. Learn the types first and forget the other stuff until you've got a good handle on them.
This didn't work for me. It was reading the subtypes from Naranjo and Chestnut that made sense to me.

2. Begin exploring the variations of type with the wings, instincts, Tritype, etc. I think it's easier to build off the nine types (variations of a type) rather than look at all the variations at once (27 instinctual subtypes, 54 instinctual variants, who knows how may Tritypes).
Exploring specifically tritype confused me more, and personally I find it inaccurate.

Wing is ok, but there's also the argument that some have equally balanced wings.

Personally I like the subtypes, but even that should be refined even more. For example, Sexual 6 subtype = Sx/So 6 subtype, Sx/Sp 6 subtype, etc.

3. Then start pulling in all the other pieces and concepts to further build on your base of understanding.
For me it was about weeding out the irrelevant variations.

What approach or direction do you find works well?
Filtering out the irrelevant variations and keeping subtype and stacking.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Learn the types first and forget the other stuff until you've got a good handle on them.
This didn't work for me. It was reading the subtypes from Naranjo and Chestnut that made sense to me.
Why do you think that was? Were the type descriptions too vague or broad and subtype descriptions weeded out a lot of that?
 

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Why do you think that was? Were the type descriptions too vague or broad and subtype descriptions weeded out a lot of that?
Quite frankly as a Sexual 6 (Sx/Sp) I didn't fit the majority of descriptions. The P/CP dichotomy is too simplistic and I think it's inaccurate. I didn't fit the certain type 6 buzzwords like "seeking security" and "the loyalist" (the list goes on). For me it was more about seeking accuracy, certainty, predictability.

Naranjo and Chestnut covered a lot of things not covered elsewhere. For example the path of growth for the Sexual 6 is to be more vulnerable and less reliant on their strength and anger, which is true for me.
 

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Quite frankly as a Sexual 6 (Sx/Sp) I didn't fit the majority of descriptions. The P/CP dichotomy is too simplistic and I think it's inaccurate. I didn't fit the certain type 6 buzzwords like "seeking security" and "the loyalist" (the list goes on). For me it was more about seeking accuracy, certainty, predictability.
Things like certainty and predictability sounds pretty in-line with security though. At least I figured that's what security is about in the context of type 6.
 

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Things like certainty and predictability sounds pretty in-line with security though. At least I figured that's what security is about in the context of type 6.
Definitions

Accuracy: the quality or state of being correct or precise

Security: the state of being free from danger or threat

Certainty: firm conviction that something is the case

Predict: say or estimate that (a specified thing) will happen in the future or will be a consequence of something

The above is self-explanatory.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Quite frankly as a Sexual 6 (Sx/Sp) I didn't fit the majority of descriptions. The P/CP dichotomy is too simplistic and I think it's inaccurate.
Funny, the instinctual subtype description of sx as the counter-phobic subtype is what started me questioning the subtype descriptions in general. The P/CP seemed so central to the type 6 subtype distinctions.

What I don't understand is with Palmer, Daniels, and Condon identifying as type 6 themselves that a better type 6 description didn't come out of their books (at least I haven't heard anyone identifying as type 6 claim those descriptions are any better than other authors).
 

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Funny, the instinctual subtype description of sx as the counter-phobic subtype is what started me questioning the subtype descriptions in general.
Naranjo and Chestnut said the Sexual 6 is the most CP compared to the other subtypes.

The P/CP seemed so central to the type 6 subtype distinctions.
I don't see it that way. I think the P/CP distinction is actually a small part of the descriptions. Granted I still think it needs refinement, but I view the subtypes as additional fixations, defense mechanisms and growth paths unique to certain subtypes.

What I don't understand is with Palmer, Daniels, and Condon identifying as type 6 themselves that a better type 6 description didn't come out of their books (at least I haven't heard anyone identifying as type 6 claim those descriptions are any better than other authors).
I think this speaks to the diversity of 6 and the importance of subtypes in general. I'm guessing their subtypes are different and to me this is another reason why you should highlight subtypes instead of incorporating it into one type because it just promotes more confusion. IMO, P/CP is a spectrum and is a clear example of how significant stacking impacts your core type, to the degree that type 6 needs a P/CP dichotomy.
 

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Learn the type first. The other stuff (instinctual variant, tritype) is just an add on. I've known about the enneagram for over a year now, and even I get too obsessed with tritype. Sometimes I just have to go back to my type to remind myself of the essential things
 

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It seems that a lot of people learning about the Enneagram types on their own piece things together little by little and sometimes get themselves all tangled in knots and confused (though they may not even know it but you can hear it). Seems to me that building from an initial foundation would be more productive.

1. Learn the types first and forget the other stuff until you've got a good handle on them. I could say learn your own type first but you may have to learn something about all the types to even determine your own type.

2. Begin exploring the variations of type with the wings, instincts, Tritype, etc. I think it's easier to build off the nine types (variations of a type) rather than look at all the variations at once (27 instinctual subtypes, 54 instinctual variants, who knows how may Tritypes).

3. Then start pulling in all the other pieces and concepts to further build on your base of understanding.

What approach or direction do you find works well?
I started with the most popular enneagram tests and always came out 5w 4 or 5w 6 or 6w5, yet I knew I had two wings, and as I sometimes put it (hyperbole), "Not even God could change my mind," but it wasn't until I read books by Don Riso (including taking a test in one of them with over 200 questions), that I came across his assertion that some people have two wings, and I thought, "No shit!"

Then I read his books with Russ Hudson which led me to Beatrice Chestnut because something was still not jibing as I don't fit a classic for, don't lead with a 6, and something was missing.


I had Beatrice Chestnut's book--got it along with the last one by Riso & Hudson but tried reading it too soon after theirs, didn't do what I've always called "Let it gel some," first, so I put her away for a couple months, then got out the book one day, flipped it open to a place and did a quick scan, don't know why--I don't read that way; I start at the Table of Contents, then the Preface and go on through, but I started reading and I recognized myself:

It was Counter-Type 5.

I had read all the other types in Riso & Hudson (read them in hers later, too), and of course in posts on PerC and elsewhere, but it was Counter-Type 5 that did it, and made sense.

I recognized some of myself in The Moat, sure; not much in The Totem.

In fact, as someone who came up working-class and poor--I'm sure that has something to do with it, I've often said, "I don't know how to network, but I need to learn."

So sub-type Totem didn't jibe, but when I read the Counter-Type 5 it fit me perfectly, especially because the 'sexual aspect' has to do with that perfect mate/match, something I actually have, for years, called "clicking with someone" (long before I ever heard of personality typing, and enneagram in particular).

My husband and I started out as friends, moved to best friends (still are), and I've always had intense, one-on-one relationships, no desire for a group of friends or acquaintances although I do enjoy being on "waving" or "quick-talk" terms with neighbors and others in my community.

So, like any subject I'm interested in, I studied--and still study--enneagram. I did that in and out of college: Am what my biological mother called being "a dog with a bone" when I want something, and what I want is a deep understanding of what interests me, which takes a lot of digging, and ongoing learning, revisiting a subject, so that's what I did, do.

ADDITION: I've looked at tri-type but to me it's going too horizontal, and doesn't work for me. I know which ones come in last on tests, and in my experience, but I haven't found tri-type to be valuable for me. If it works for others, that's fine; it just doesn't do much for me.
 

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the P/CP 6 is just the type/counter type thing right? and every type has their 'type' and counter type. Im a so/sx 8 for example... im all about group power, not individual power

i think these instincts loosely correlate to the wing stuff as well eh? sexual 8 is probably 8w7, self pres 8 is the core 8, and social 8 is the 8w9? ive noticed other types with similar tendencies.
 
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