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...how do you react?

This is hard for me to articulate, but I think this is in line with what someone previously described as an NJ sense of justice. It really bothers me a lot when I see someone who doesn't deserve something, but attain it anyway.

This is a school related example since I'm a recent college grad: if someone works hard, earns good grades, spends a great deal of time/energy/dedication on their goals, and gets into a great grad. school, I respect them for their strong values, their ideology, and their hard work. Likewise, I've met people who told me, "I want to get into X Med school because it's prestigious and I'm ambitious." And they go about working hard for it. I acknowledge those people, too, because at least they are willing to work hard for something important to them, whether or not i agree with or like their motivations. Plus, at least they are honest and straight-forward about their motivations of pursuing ambition. I've also met people who aren't sure of what they want in the future, but still work hard and have strong values about what they do now. As long as they keep true to themselves and seek to develop some kind of ideology that is important to them while they figure out things, I respect them.

But, when I see someone cheat or see that someone is shallow/lacking in values/ideology, I lose respect for them. When I talk about "shallow," I am referring to those who pursue something not because it is important to them or because it is a goal they want. Hard to describe these people or know what they are about 'cause I can't relate... but I've met some people who lack a remote sense of ideology or strong values that ground them. I've also met people who are clearly pursuing something out of personal ambition, but spend half their time criticizing people who are upfront about their ambition and the other half trying to do something that I don't really quite get/can't put my finger on (I just sense the insincerity). Anyway if they get into a great grad. school, I feel frustrated and feel that they don't deserve it. And yes, I have a hard time getting over it.

Enough ranting! Do you guys also feel similarly when people get rewarded for something they don't deserve? and feel free to share your own personal examples/experiences too. Mine is just a recent example I encountered.
 

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I used to get on my high horse, particularly in high school where in the UK a poorly behaved nig-nog is usually given some sort of 'carrot' or reward (here, go to a theme park for 2 days) to elicit normal behaviour whereas if you behave tolerably you get nothing. So unobjective and appauling. Really have we lost all ability as a society to use the other mechanism known as 'sticks'?
 

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Interesting....

Well, I can say that I would also be upset, angry, frustrated and wanting to cry out for justice. At the same time, I'd wonder what I could prove and what kind of system would I be using to try to get justice served. In the case of school cheating, if I doubt that I have enough proof I may hold back and believe that some other system may take care of this.

Another part of this is not knowing the whole story. How well do I know that person that cheated? There could be some rationale similar to the hungry thief that steals a loaf of bread for his family and himself to eat. I'm not saying it is a good one, just that there is one.
 

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Yes. It not only frustrates me, I hate it.

There is a guy in my class. He's a really good talker but he never does his homework. He interrupts class, and though it's clear that he comes from a family that values education, he seems to think that that's enough. He has some general knowledge about a lot of subjects because they are dinner-table conversations at home, but he has never opened a single book during school year.

I got really damn frustrated when he got top grades in a visual arts class last year. He has a gift with language, and can make a good presentation out of anything on the fly. He really can come up with amazing things on the spot without ever putting in the effort to research it beforehand. But he didn't at all deserve top grades, there were people who had worked their asses off throughout the year who should have recieved that recognition.

But after he finished his chemistry exam I couldn't help but smile. He didn't pass, and ended up looking like an idiot. You can wiggle around topics in stuff like visual arts, but you have to know your shit when you're at the chemistry exam. I was so happy he wasn't allowed to study physics this year because of it.
 

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As long as the reward in question isn't "stolen" from a more meritant one (ie. good school grades usually aren't on finite supplies, work promotions are) and they're not bragging about it all over the place, well good for them.
If they brag I'll just despise them and they'll level up on my ignore scale, but if the reward was taken away from someone who truly deserved it, then the injustice will make me angry and I'll probably open my big mouth to make it known to whoever took that decision.

I used to hate from the bottom of my guts anyone who had stuff they didn't deserve (either objectively or just in my opinion), but with time I started to accept the fact that life is unfair and can't be solely ruled in all its aspects by meritocracy principles.
Besides, those people who take everything for granted and/or rest on their laurels and never learned to work hard always end up reaching a plateau soon enough, so things eventually balance themselves out. (and if not it's more efficient and fulfilling to fight the wrongs in the system than to blame its profiteers, channel your anger in a positive direction!)

As for your ethic issues on the question, personally I don't have them.
I don't care about the hows and whys one do this or that, and the depth of their convictions about it and all that jazz, as long as they're not affecting negatively other people's lives they can do whatever the hell they want with theirs, who would I be to judge? If by attaining their goals they can help me attain mines more power to them, if their inner evilness could stain my name by association I'll avoid their path and that's it. My time and emotional energy are far too precious for me to waste them on something as useless and resources-consuming as hate.
 

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I have figured that ususally, life catches up with people like that. Sure, I worked my ass off in uni and grad school, and did not have my supervisor write my thesis for me. However, I have actually learned a few things, and I can apply those in the real world for real money. The guys I worked with who basically slacked off are not doing nearly as well - one has a dead-end job at university, the other is a regular engineer - which is a tad disappointing when one joins the work force at age 32.
 

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Ahhh, another thread I can rant in! :tongue: Out of my ... what ... 12 (?) posts, how many have been rants about work? I obviously work in a ... less-than-optimal ... job, to put it very lightly. :confused:

For the longest time I was very frustrated because I'd been working at my job for two years, had trained a bunch of people, and some of them had gotten promoted to management but I hadn't, even though it was what I wanted - but since I was technically a "manager-in-training" for a full year and a half before I was actually promoted, I was always expected to know everything and be perfect, without the pay raise ... blah blah blah.

So anyways, once I got promoted, there were three managers who always seemed to get special treatment. The girl I went to manager classes with, who was such a suck-up that she was the store manager's favorite. The guy I trained on his first night working at our store, and the guy he trained later on. Both those guys were promoted long before I was.

Sooooooo ... the second guy manager was just plain incompetent. At least in the last months of his job, he didn't care one bit about doing his job, so he let the crew be loud and rowdy and get all kinds of free food and he'd get nothing done for the manager who would come in after him. When he was the second manager on shift, and not in charge of running the shift, he would essentially make your job harder by doing all the same things, while you're trying to maintain some semblance of order ...
And all that happened to him was that he didn't get a 10 cent raise at review time. He finally quit a couple weeks ago.

Then the first guy manager apparently stole money from the deposit one night. He was suspended for a while, but then for some unknown reason came right back to work again. He also got passed over for a 10 cent raise. Whut?

Then there's my "rival" who although she could keep a shift together, was hated by almost all the other managers because of her duality, suck-up-ness, etc. She was not our strongest manager by any means, yet she was one of two (out of 8) who actually got a raise. Thankfully, she quit/got fired (?) on the same day the other manager mentioned above quit.

Oh, and don't let me forget the other manager who got suspended for basically being verbally abusive and not doing her job, back almost a year ago. She quit while she was suspended, and said even if they begged for her to come back, she would never do it, she was going to sit at home and collect unemployment.
Then our store got bought out by another organization ... and our store manager along with out-of-store management above her changed. And guess who came *running* back begging for her job back? And guess who took her?

Now, she's transferred to a different store. Yay.

So ... anyways, the current management ends up rewarding the managers who are willing to beg and plead for their jobs, or who have their nose so far up "where the sun don't shine," or who just don't do a good job. There are really only two managers now who I can think of who aren't willing to do either: myself and the only other manager who got a raise at last review time. (No, I did not get a raise, that was my "classmate"). I think the only reason she got a raise is because they like her, because she's working on moving up to a salaried position.

Sooooooooooooo ....

How do I react?

Anger, bitterness, but I don't have the guts to say anything about it to the boss, for fear of my own job. I feel like I'm the only one who can see it as it really is, and how it's bringing the whole store down, but I don't do anything about it ...
So I dream about taking over the store manager's position, or running my own business. But it's not reality, I know that much. So I just go to work each day for another paycheck. Yup.

Oops. Sorry it's so long.
 

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I'm really not sure why now that I am a manager. The pay raise and increase in hours is nice, though.

But I suppose it's because I don't like taking orders from a bunch of incompetent idiots. Or maybe it's the same reason I always took over group projects in school: since nobody else knows how to do it, I guess I'll have to.

When there's no drama and work goes well, I actually like my job. I dunno ...

I honestly used to think I was an ENTJ, due to just that, wanting to be in management, etc, being the natural leader, and so on. But it just doesn't fit. I am so clearly not an extrovert ... and I fit into the INTJ description so clearly, that it just has to be that I'm so fed up with their incompetence even when I didn't realize it! I don't know! :confused::laughing:
 

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But I suppose it's because I don't like taking orders from a bunch of incompetent idiots. Or maybe it's the same reason I always took over group projects in school: since nobody else knows how to do it, I guess I'll have to.


Promotion means you now take orders from different incompetent idiots.
 

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Promotion means you now take orders from different incompetent idiots.
But fewer incompetent idiots. So therefore it is easier to predict which actions are expected from me.
 
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Yes, true. The situation does improve. Incompetent minions are no fun, but you can bully those...
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

...

But incompetent minions make me too angry. :angry: And if I bully them too much, they tattle. (Lol :wink:)
 

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You should subtly mock them. It helps to vent, and they won't notice. All in all though, I'm convinced an incompetent boss is worse than incompetent minions - you can fire the latter.
 

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Ah, I don't have hiring/firing privileges. That belongs to said incompetent boss.

At work I already fake-insult everyone for entertainment. I don't know if that makes subtle mocking easier or harder ...
 

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When people are rewarded for something they don't deserve they are rewarded for something they don't deserve. That's it. End of story. It's not the end of the world. Life goes on.
 

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I used to care about this but I don't anymore at all unless I'm in direct competition with that person.

Mostly it's a realization that people generally get what they deserve in the long run. And also that I'm not the arbiter of who's a good fit for what; it's not my place to make the decision of who gets a high-paying job, into grad school, a hot girlfriend, etc.
 

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In my school, it was always the people who did poorly that on the off chance they did something right, would get praised extremely highly. I however, a constant hard work very rarely gets awarded for my efforts.
However, I'm not an attention seeker, so on the off chance that I am rewarded it's usually for something
"amazing" I have done. So I don't mind. I know I'm rather smart. I'd rather focus on that, than on some
one who got lucky for doing essentially nothing!
 

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I realize an INTJ did not start this thread, but speaking from what I can only assume is an INTJ mindset, I'd agree with those who follow the "life happens" idea here. Generally we take one of two paths when watching such a situation occur: one, we watch and get upset, more often then not wasting emotional energy on something which holds little or no real relavance to our lives. Or two, we let it pass.

Either choice we make, the person who "got what they didn't deserve" still ends up in the same place in the long run. If they obtained their items via unethical means, they will be seen as unethical by others, and in the long run will fall prey to someone who exposes them.

Some believe in karma, others in probability. Whichever happens or happens first, it will happen and they will suffer.
 
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