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Discussion Starter #1
Hey, you amazing and awesome INTPs!
I am putting my heart a little out of my sleeve on this one....
My hubby, an INTP, has recently been very annoyed with me and the children. He doesn't like it when I remind him (sometimes over and over again) to do his chores, which are linked to mine. IE- if he doesn't do his part, I am stuck not being able to do mine.
Lately I have been more stressed than usual due to work and am a bit more agitated. I have been a bit more irritated and am yelling more at the kids (a thing I seldom do). He has taken this so seriously that all day yesterday, he has been giving me little hints of "you're mean" with every comment he would make. I tried to analyze what was making him so mad, and this got him even madder. He could not answer past "you're being illogical!" I would ask him, "how?" but that made him ever more pissed. I actually started laughing at his fury, as it is so uncharacteristic of him, and he is unable to explain his reasoning of why he thinks I am being illogical!
You have to understand, these are strange dynamics for us. We usually laugh it out after having a heated argument, and make fun of ourselves. this was different.
My question to you is this- When you have fights with any INFJ in your life, what makes you finally snap? What are things that are helpful for your relationship to be balanced out after an epic fight, argument, disagreement?
Thanks in advance.
 

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When you have fights with any INFJ in your life, what makes you finally snap?
Deliberate obtuseness, or the unwillingness to recognize something self evident, such as the fact their perspectives are only that.
Deliberate malice or bad faith arguing.
Blatant manipulation.
Being forced to repeat myself more than once.
When I discern that the crux of the issue is something inherent, and it's not worth the effort to change or argue. If the issue is pertinent to the core dynamics of the relationship, I sever ties immediately.


What are things that are helpful for your relationship to be balanced out after an epic fight, argument, disagreement?
Thanks in advance.
Not reoffending again and showing evidence of listening/efforts to avoid the offensive behaviour. After enough reoffenses, I simply distance myself from the person because I determine they're not taking me or the relationship seriously or are confident they can manipulate their way back into my good graces.
 

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First take a deep breath.
Clear your mind.

Ask yourself what do you want to accomplish? Husband doing his chores?

When you approach your husband, put yourself in his shoes. Recognize what you are doing wrong. i.e. Yelling at kids
Say what's upsetting you. Husband not doing his chores
Say I don't know what to do.

If you ever watch DC's green arrow, he does a great job at defusing conflicts, albeit great at diffusing them too.

An example:
I know I have been doing the immoral thing of yelling at the kids, it is because I am really stressed. A source of this stress is coming from the fact that I feel like you're not doing your chores. Maybe I am wrong about the chores but I would really like some help on handling this stress.

I feel is bolded, because it says what you feel
I feel like youre not doing the chores (this is what you feel and leaves room for error)
vs
Youre not doing the chores (this is quite authoritative, leaves no room for error and is quite the turnoff)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Deliberate obtuseness, or the unwillingness to recognize something self evident, such as the fact their perspectives are only that.
Deliberate malice or bad faith arguing.
Blatant manipulation.
Being forced to repeat myself more than once.
When I discern that the crux of the issue is something inherent, and it's not worth the effort to change or argue. If the issue is pertinent to the core dynamics of the relationship, I sever ties immediately.



Not reoffending again and showing evidence of listening/efforts to avoid the offensive behaviour. After enough reoffenses, I simply distance myself from the person because I determine they're not taking me or the relationship seriously or are confident they can manipulate their way back into my good graces.
interesting perspective...thanks.... but what if, in reality, your INFJ wasn't really trying to manipulate and you thought he/she was???
Just wondering:) This is golden information, thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
First take a deep breath.
Clear your mind.

Ask yourself what do you want to accomplish? Husband doing his chores?

When you approach your husband, put yourself in his shoes. Recognize what you are doing wrong. i.e. Yelling at kids
Say what's upsetting you. Husband not doing his chores
Say I don't know what to do.

If you ever watch DC's green arrow, he does a great job at defusing conflicts, albeit great at diffusing them too.

An example:
I know I have been doing the immoral thing of yelling at the kids, it is because I am really stressed. A source of this stress is coming from the fact that I feel like you're not doing your chores. Maybe I am wrong about the chores but I would really like some help on handling this stress.

I feel is bolded, because it says what you feel
I feel like youre not doing the chores (this is what you feel and leaves room for error)
vs
Youre not doing the chores (this is quite authoritative, leaves no room for error and is quite the turnoff)
Thanks, I'll try that.
 

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interesting perspective...thanks.... but what if, in reality, your INFJ wasn't really trying to manipulate and you thought he/she was???
Just wondering:) This is golden information, thank you.
Any and all human interactions involve some degree of manipulation, most of it is subconscious, but when it isn't it's glaringly obvious. Especially when it's someone you've known for a while and they're trying to abuse soft spots or blind spots that no one normally would know.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Any and all human interactions involve some degree of manipulation, most of it is subconscious, but when it isn't it's glaringly obvious. Especially when it's someone you've known for a while and they're trying to abuse soft spots or blind spots that no one normally would know.
mmm....I can only speak for myself, of course, but...I would never consciously abuse someone's weak spots, but rather urge the person to find a way to repair it...which might get lost in translation and misunderstood....
 

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mmm....I can only speak for myself, of course, but...I would never consciously abuse someone's weak spots, but rather urge the person to find a way to repair it...which might get lost in translation and misunderstood....
Yeah I've heard that one before. You'd be surprised how easy it is for people to bullshit themselves and rationalize exceptions.

My believing this would depend on the degree of self awareness I'd observe over the course of a relationship. I've been subjected to "unconscious" manipulation several times, and all I got from pointing out the cues that led me to this conclusion were responses that ranged from dismissive to defensive. When there's a discrepancy between who a person is and who they want to come across as, and this gets pointed out, odds are you'll get them defensive and all chance of discourse is over.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yeah I've heard that one before. You'd be surprised how easy it is for people to bullshit themselves and rationalize exceptions.

My believing this would depend on the degree of self awareness I'd observe over the course of a relationship. I've been subjected to "unconscious" manipulation several times, and all I got from pointing out the cues that led me to this conclusion were responses that ranged from dismissive to defensive. When there's a discrepancy between who a person is and who they want to come across as, and this gets pointed out, odds are you'll get them defensive and all chance of discourse is over.
something to think about. Thanks.
 

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I'm not an INTP but my boyfriend is and his mom is an INFJ so I have a teeny bit of insight about this type of thing.

Questions:
A. Have you asked him why he's putting off his half of the chores? Just curious if this is normal or if there has been a discussion as far as why?
B. Did you ask him how you're being mean? Specifically which behaviors are out of line.

Insight: when I hear the phrase "remind over and over," I know how much that gets on my INTPs nerves, especially if he knows and he's telling mom he knows but she cuts him off because she wants to complete her sentence, despite knowing that he already knows. This only exacerbates the situation. This will only push him farther from the goal.

Could it be that there is something going on on his end that either is a bigger deal to him than you or something you're unaware of? My INTP isn't much for complaining and even if the issue is a big deal, he kinda internalizes/keeps it to himself, which might give the impression of it not being as big of a deal. Additionally, perhaps your approach is something he was tolerant of prior but is now wearing him down.

Please don't take this as blame but rather as an objective observation: your irritation doesn't help. Emotionally charged interaction does not usually yield a positive reaction. I can almost guarantee your laughing at him when he is expressing trying to make sense of what you want was equally unproductive (that's what "you're being illogical" means - you are not making sense and I cannot determine what you're actually trying to communicate). Imagine trying to communicate a dire need to someone who speaks a different language and they laugh at you instead. That can't feel good.

If it were me, the not INFJ and not INTP, I think you need to have a talk about your communication and perhaps lay down some guidelines for how to communicate in a way that results in mutual understanding and productive response. It seems like there are layers of miscommunication that are turning into bad feelings.
 
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