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Isn't that repression more of a 9w1 thing?

9w8 checking in, I don't repress anger at all.

EDIT: On second thought, I don't "repress it" but I don't express as much as I initially feel.
An 8 "shows" a lot more anger than I feel. I will light up just as a way to make space in a situation.

A 9 shows a lot LESS anger than even they acknowledge.

To me, 8 has a sense of extroversion. We emote anger or discontent or disagreement strongly. It is a powerful, easy, useful tool.

A 9 has more of an internal, introverted sense. They repress their feelings of discontent or unhappiness for conflict, and look for ways to resolve conflict peaceably .

A 9w8 will resort to aggression short term in order to create peace, but at a great cost in personal energy.
An 8w9 will IMPOSE peace if the disagreement becomes annoying, and it will cost no energy, and may in fact energize the 8w9.
 

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An 8 "shows" a lot more anger than I feel. I will light up just as a way to make space in a situation.

A 9 shows a lot LESS anger than even they acknowledge.

To me, 8 has a sense of extroversion. We emote anger or discontent or disagreement strongly. It is a powerful, easy, useful tool.

A 9 has more of an internal, introverted sense. They repress their feelings of discontent or unhappiness for conflict, and look for ways to resolve conflict peaceably .

A 9w8 will resort to aggression short term in order to create peace, but at a great cost in personal energy.
An 8w9 will IMPOSE peace if the disagreement becomes annoying, and it will cost no energy, and may in fact energize the 8w9.
So 8w9 shows more than they feel and 9w8 feels more than they show.

Sounds right lol, I express mine in limits unless something's seriously wrong. It can be draining but if something's really bothering me, getting rid of it/getting pissed off at it is very fulfilling.
 

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An 8 "shows" a lot more anger than I feel. I will light up just as a way to make space in a situation.

A 9 shows a lot LESS anger than even they acknowledge.

To me, 8 has a sense of extroversion. We emote anger or discontent or disagreement strongly. It is a powerful, easy, useful tool.

A 9 has more of an internal, introverted sense. They repress their feelings of discontent or unhappiness for conflict, and look for ways to resolve conflict peaceably .

A 9w8 will resort to aggression short term in order to create peace, but at a great cost in personal energy.
An 8w9 will IMPOSE peace if the disagreement becomes annoying, and it will cost no energy, and may in fact energize the 8w9.
I agree with all this, but I also want to add that I definitely *do* get energized when finally confronting something. The first step seems life-draining, but once I'm fired up, oh boy do I go!
 

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I agree with all this, but I also want to add that I definitely *do* get energized when finally confronting something. The first step seems life-draining, but once I'm fired up, oh boy do I go!
I never "knew" this, but makes sense when I think back on some 9's I know.

Thank you for sharing this!
 

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Well, there are obviously a lot of differences between the two. I'm 8w9 and while I have some qualities of 9 e.g. the tendency to minimize my own importance, thinking of life as a grey irrelevant form of drudgery we all move through where nothing really matters etc. (fuck I still don't quite get how to distinguish 5 vs 9 apathy within myself), I'm most definitely an 8.


  • 8s are naturally reactive; 9s become reactive when unhealthy and tap into point 6
  • 8s externalize their anger; 9s repress their anger (1s internalize in a sense)
  • 8s are more action-driven and strive towards seeking to control the environment e.g. "better do it yourself" mentality; 9s seek to let go of control
  • 8s blame; 9s are much more receptive of others' feelings a bit to a fault sometimes
  • In conflict, I'd say 8w9 is more "I've had enough, fuck this shit" and leaves as a form of reaction when they feel they can't continue to exert control; 9w8 would finally react against when people push them around and begin to demand them to change their routines too much for it to be comfortable e.g. "fuck you, I don't care about you, I do it my way now" as a way to re-establish control
This video is great to showcase how 8w9 reacts when they've had enough:


  • Average to unhealthy 8 think of themselves as inherently bad people; my impression of 9 is that they don't have any strong opinion either way because it means they need to care about good/bad, lol, though I do think 9s can have an impression of not being worthy of receiving love (notice the connection to 3), or in the very least being paid attention to in terms of being loved

There are probably other differences but I can't think of them right now. The band Linkin Park is a great resource on how unhealthier 9w8 can look like:

I'm tired of being what you want me to be
Feeling so faithless, lost under the surface
Don't know what you're expecting of me
Put under the pressure of walking in your shoes

(Caught in the undertow, just caught in the undertow)
Every step that I take is another mistake to you
(Caught in the undertow, just caught in the undertow)

[Chorus:]
I've become so numb, I can't feel you there
Become so tired, so much more aware
I'm becoming this, all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you


Can't you see that you're smothering me,
Holding too tightly, afraid to lose control?

'Cause everything that you thought I would be
Has fallen apart right in front of you.
(Caught in the undertow, just caught in the undertow)
Every step that I take is another mistake to you.
(Caught in the undertow, just caught in the undertow)
And every second I waste is more than I can take.

And I know
I may end up failing too.
But I know
You were just like me with someone disappointed in you.
The bolded indicates some 8ish reaction.

Compare to this song, much more unhealthy 8w9:


Where I was, not one to follow
You gave me something
I did not believe
was never meant for me
Oh my god, I

I am grateful, you know that
But I have nothing
to give in return for this
My life for what?
What else was I good for?

You know me,
I can't be redeemed
What do you want from me?
You took me out of play and now
you choose to free me again?
I have no cause I don't believe I kill, that's all I know
I am the villain of this story
what else could I ever be?

My penance weaved into this conflict,
this hidden war
I can't believe
you gave me back
what I thought sure lost

But I don't see what I can do here
What is it you want me to be for you?
My life for what?
What else was I good for?

Even though I can't feel what you feel
I understand, and we move forward
Better than alone

Yeah, I am

I'm so much better by your side
than lost in night

I have my own reasons
but I'll believe
It's more difficult to point out the lines that are more explicitly 9ish; it's more just the overall tendency of the song where the lyrics clearly downplay the importance of the narrator. It's not just that the narrator is not a good person i.e. the self-perceived villain, but the narrator is not worthy being paid attention to precisely because he/she is not a good person. There is a lot of indifference and self-forgetting involved i.e. why do you pay attention to me when I'm so bad? I'm not worth being paid attention to.
 

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Well, there are obviously a lot of differences between the two. I'm 8w9 and while I have some qualities of 9 e.g. the tendency to minimize my own importance, thinking of life as a grey irrelevant form of drudgery we all move through where nothing really matters etc. (fuck I still don't quite get how to distinguish 5 vs 9 apathy within myself), I'm most definitely an 8.


  • 8s are naturally reactive; 9s become reactive when unhealthy and tap into point 6
  • 8s externalize their anger; 9s repress their anger (1s internalize in a sense)
  • 8s are more action-driven and strive towards seeking to control the environment e.g. "better do it yourself" mentality; 9s seek to let go of control
  • 8s blame; 9s are much more receptive of others' feelings a bit to a fault sometimes
  • In conflict, I'd say 8w9 is more "I've had enough, fuck this shit" and leaves as a form of reaction when they feel they can't continue to exert control; 9w8 would finally react against when people push them around and begin to demand them to change their routines too much for it to be comfortable e.g. "fuck you, I don't care about you, I do it my way now" as a way to re-establish control
I think Raven from X-Men's a 9w8. Especially in this clip. (didn't feel like quoting your full post)

EDIT: On that note do you think Charles is a 1w9?
 

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Nice post! And it makes sense how Linkin Park could represent the disintegration for a 9. I've always seen them as a very 6-ish band. 6 poster child even.
No unhealthy 6 would be more like Eminem or songs like Throat Full of Glass by Combichrist, mostly:

Beyond true will
receive the comfort in a broken heart
Now pattern shapes
An image of true life
(True life)

Alone
Surrounded by a million faces
One by one
I see the judgment in their eyes
(I see the judgment in their eyes)

Like a disease
I'm always in the wrong
And now the numbness wearing off
Can't stand the pain
I get in line
(I always do)
I always do
Need to be patient
While perfecting death's design

I cannot help it, can't decline
It's always better down the line
I'm in the wrong and I've done it all before

And I wish I'd never been
And I know it's just a dream
Now I'm blind I can open my eyes

Can't stay awake
Burning alive
I cannot breathe this poison air filled with lies
I cannot see
What's done to me
Live in fear
The sun is falling from the sky
Can't stay awake

Nothing left to break
My life is in a thousand pieces, million reasons
Why should I keep myself away?
(Hard to define)
Hard to define
(It always is)
It always is
It's hard to scream with your throat full of glass
(Throat full of glass)

I cannot help it, can't decline
It's always better down the line
I'm in the wrong and I've done it all before

And I wish I'd never been
And I know it's just a dream
Now I'm blind I can open my eyes

Can't stay awake
Burning alive
I cannot breathe this poison air filled with lies
I cannot see
What's done to me
Live in fear
The sun is falling from the sky
Can't stay awake

(Can't stay awake)

Can't stay awake
Burning alive
I cannot breathe this poison air filled with lies
I cannot see
What's done to me
Live in fear
The sun is falling from the sky
Can't stay awake
Notice the tone of being subject to some unfathomable terror of the world, the impression of being persecuted. You don't see this in Linkin Park's songs, usually. The only more typically 6ish song I can think of is Papercut. Then again I stopped listening to them after Meteora, but I think their songs tend to overall be more gut-oriented than they are 6ish. Numb, Somewhere I Belong etc focus too much on an emotional numbing to be 6. 6s are anything but emotionally numb. Part of their problematic is probably the hyper-awareness to their inner states.
 

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No unhealthy 6 would be more like Eminem or songs like Throat Full of Glass by Combichrist, mostly:



Notice the tone of being subject to some unfathomable terror of the world, the impression of being persecuted. You don't see this in Linkin Park's songs, usually. The only more typically 6ish song I can think of is Papercut. Then again I stopped listening to them after Meteora, but I think their songs tend to overall be more gut-oriented than they are 6ish. Numb, Somewhere I Belong etc focus too much on an emotional numbing to be 6. 6s are anything but emotionally numb. Part of their problematic is probably the hyper-awareness to their inner states.
Throat Full of Glass, love that song. It's my favorite by Combichrist (not that I know that many of em anyway).

Yeah, I see what you mean. The lyrics are awfully 9-ish, not so much head-type.
I've looked into Linkin Park some more, and I think what's throwing me of is that, even though the lyrics are 9 (because they're mostly written by 9's), the band's sound in of itself is more head-type and 6-ish. Probably because the front man is a 6 himself.
So it's type 9 sentiments brought by a type 6.
 

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Throat Full of Glass, love that song. It's my favorite by Combichrist (not that I know that many of em anyway).

Yeah, I see what you mean. The lyrics are awfully 9-ish, not so much head-type.
I've looked into Linkin Park some more, and I think what's throwing me of is that, even though the lyrics are 9 (because they're mostly written by 9's), the band's sound in of itself is more head-type and 6-ish. Probably because the front man is a 6 himself.
So it's type 9 sentiments brought by a type 6.
I see why you think 6 for them, but they are just too angry to be. Not that 6s can't be angry, but usually as I wrote, 6s have more of a persecuted mentality to them. Usually, Linkin Park's lyrics focus more on boundaries.

And yes, Throat Full of Glass is a great song.
 

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I see why you think 6 for them, but they are just too angry to be. Not that 6s can't be angry, but usually as I wrote, 6s have more of a persecuted mentality to them. Usually, Linkin Park's lyrics focus more on boundaries.

And yes, Throat Full of Glass is a great song.
Yeah, what I meant with the band's sound being head triad is that it has a lot of high-energy, nervous singing and shouting, the same goes for the melody. Whereas I tend to equate gut-sounding anger as more.. well, gutty :p
It'd be slower, and heavier. Not so high-pitched. Linkin Park's energy is very electric, head type-ish. It doesn't push you, but instead, it screams.
But again, the lyrics themselves, the message, is definitely in the type 9 realm. 9 wearing a 6 jacket.
 

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Yeah, what I meant with the band's sound being head triad is that it has a lot of high-energy, nervous singing and shouting, the same goes for the melody. Whereas I tend to equate gut-sounding anger as more.. well, gutty :p
It'd be slower, and heavier. Not so high-pitched. Linkin Park's energy is very electric, head type-ish. It doesn't push you, but instead, it screams.
But again, the lyrics themselves, the message, is definitely in the type 9 realm. 9 wearing a 6 jacket.
Weird, because I never associated their music as "head-y". I mean, by that definition everything doom/drone/sludge/stoner metal should be gut music:


Deep into the flesh the arrow cut
From the hope of a hunter's bow
Wounded we fall
With bleeding hearts we crawl
Taking shelter from the arrows

Cut the trembling flesh
And don't let the tears tame you
Rip your arrows out
And make them cut deeper
Crush my mouth, for it still sings praises to you
Run the blood out from my throat
For I'm still your's

"And the hope will die
When the curtains fall
And silence the pain"

We drink from the well
The well of poisoned hope
Until the water will burn
All pure hearts away

Keep your eyes on the wounds
Those rivers will run dry soon
Will it leave you wanting more
The taste of flesh that bleeds in your honour
I always thought StS to be quite 4-ish or very frustration triad. So much frustration-driven pain in their songs, usually.
 

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An 8 "shows" a lot more anger than I feel. I will light up just as a way to make space in a situation.

A 9 shows a lot LESS anger than even they acknowledge.

To me, 8 has a sense of extroversion. We emote anger or discontent or disagreement strongly. It is a powerful, easy, useful tool.

A 9 has more of an internal, introverted sense. They repress their feelings of discontent or unhappiness for conflict, and look for ways to resolve conflict peaceably .

A 9w8 will resort to aggression short term in order to create peace, but at a great cost in personal energy.
An 8w9 will IMPOSE peace if the disagreement becomes annoying, and it will cost no energy, and may in fact energize the 8w9.
perfect description! :D
 

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Weird, because I never associated their music as "head-y". I mean, by that definition everything doom/drone/sludge/stoner metal should be gut music:

-(video)-​

I always thought StS to be quite 4-ish or very frustration triad. So much frustration-driven pain in their songs, usually.
Heh, I wasn't saying that all heavy music is gut, but it's hard to explain..

This is grunge and is obviously not gut (it's sx4);
 

And with StS, I think, it actually is gut. They're describing actions and states of being. If you compare to Alice In Chains; AiC has an easier time describing their emotions, but at the same time, they describe very few actions or 'states' in the same song. AiC uses simpler metaphors to explain their emotions. Gut types have to dig deeper to reach those same emotions, so they have to use many metaphors to describe what is simple to get at for a heart type. It's more muddled up for gut types. Like they're pushing to get something out, the same way they struggle with getting words out, sometimes. Emotion is more obvious with the heart triad.
 

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Heh, I wasn't saying that all heavy music is gut, but it's hard to explain..

This is grunge and is obviously not gut (it's sx4);
 

And with StS, I think, it actually is gut. They're describing actions and states of being. If you compare to Alice In Chains; AiC has an easier time describing their emotions, but at the same time, they describe very few actions or 'states' in the same song. AiC uses simpler metaphors to explain their emotions. Gut types have to dig deeper to reach those same emotions, so they have to use many metaphors to describe what is simple to get at for a heart type. It's more muddled up for gut types. Like they're pushing to get something out, the same way they struggle with getting words out, sometimes. Emotion is more obvious with the heart triad.
How is it obviously not gut? And no, I know, but I took your argument to its extreme. The only reasonable example I can think of that you are trying to suggest would be music like this:


Even then, idk.

And can you explain what you mean with struggling to push feelings out? Do you have a concrete example of it?
 

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On the topic of 9w8 music, I've found I relate to this song:


Sometimes
I feel like I want to live
Far from the metropolis
Just walk through that door
Sometimes
I feel like I want to fly
Reach out to the painted sky
A prisoner to the wind
A bird on the wing

Sometimes
I feel the ocean in my blood
See rain from the sky above
Her salt brined tears
And now
Those tears leave taste on my tongue
Like the warm rush you get from
Black opium
Black opium

Sometimes
I feel like I want to leave
Behind all these memories
And walk through that door
Outside
The black night calls my name
But all roads look the same
They lead nowhere
They lead nowhere
Basically the yearning for freedom but then realizing nothing truly seems appealing enough. I really like the way the song captured that slothful feeling at the end. It's not simply about laziness, the type of apathy is literally exactly how it's described, at least for me: everything looks the same and leads nowhere. I could do this or that or that, and maybe I'd like to do something, but I don't truly seem to have the desire for anything and ultimately anything I do would just be a temporary distraction and not actually lead anywhere. There's a sense of futility about it.

I'm curious if any 8w9s find these lyrics relatable as well.
 

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On the topic of 9w8 music, I've found I relate to this song:




Basically the yearning for freedom but then realizing nothing truly seems appealing enough. I really like the way the song captured that slothful feeling at the end. It's not simply about laziness, the type of apathy is literally exactly how it's described, at least for me: everything looks the same and leads nowhere. I could do this or that or that, and maybe I'd like to do something, but I don't truly seem to have the desire for anything and ultimately anything I do would just be a temporary distraction and not actually lead anywhere. There's a sense of futility about it.

I'm curious if any 8w9s find these lyrics relatable as well.
Hm, how come you don't think these are 5ish? What I read in these lyrics is very 5>8, with all this focus on isolation and the desire to engage the world.


The unsaid tone of weak despair
Fail to resonate
Frayed end of our binding threads
Will disintegrate
By the laws our physique state
Failure to communicate
None too sentient
Hear no, see no works its magic
Against all function
Ongoing choices the trials will end
Filter the nonsense and laugh at what's left
Indecision/non-vision what matters taken away
Look at the shell that is you
Empty, fragile, weak
Soon the battle is over
Lost to apathy
So overcome with pointless tears
To test pain receptors
Nothing matters ever here
Put up a non-reaction
These eyes will never see
Covered up from reality
Look at the shell that is you
Empty, fragile, weak
Soon the battle is over
Lost to apathy
The unknown world that you deny
No priority
Cannot fail if you never start
How predictable
I want to know where did it end
For madness to start
Always the sceptic and never be part
Introvertive/non-descriptive
It matters not, not
Look at the shell that is you
Empty, fragile, weak
Look at the shell that is you
Empty, fragile, weak
Soon the battle is over
Lost to apathy
The shell that is you
Empty, fragile, weak
The battle is over
Lost to apathy
Would you say these are 5 or 9? I always associated these lyrics as 5ish, and perhaps 8>5.
 

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How is it obviously not gut? And no, I know, but I took your argument to its extreme. The only reasonable example I can think of that you are trying to suggest would be music like this:

-video-

Even then, idk.
How is AiC obviously not gut? It's a good question, but it's harder talking about what they're not than what they are. The feeling descriptions in their songs are more central, even if they're describing certain actions etc. It's what it's all about for them. And everything else is secondary.
When it comes to gut type music, I've noticed, they're more likely describing a mood, an atmosphere, ambiance, the undertone.. In heart type music, the emotion is in the foreground and the descriptions of it are clearer.


And can you explain what you mean with struggling to push feelings out? Do you have a concrete example of it?
It comes from the self-numbing that the gut triad does. The closer to the 9, the foggier and muddier the feelings become. Harder to reach and express.

Heart types expose their feelings, gut types have to push them out.

8w9:
 

9w8:
 

It's like you have to look for their emotions in between the lines. It's harder to express them in a clear way.
Especially with the Danzig song, the emotion (anger) is in the entire song, but he never comes close to mentioning it. It's the undertone.
 

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Hm, how come you don't think these are 5ish? What I read in these lyrics is very 5>8, with all this focus on isolation and the desire to engage the world.
The way I interpreted it was a longing for freedom, to get far away from the busy, stressful metropolis for an existence that is both more peaceful and more alive. (In type 9 the basic motivation is "peace of mind" but from what I've seen 9w8s are more likely to experience that as seeking freedom from pressure.) And then ultimately being unable to find enough real desire, it slips away because that is what Sloth does.

I don't see primary 5 motivations such as to be capable and competent, and I don't see Avarice in the lyrics either. But it is common for Fives to be introverted and experience apathy. So I guess I see it as more centrally 9w8 but overlapping with things relatable to Fives.

Would you say these are 5 or 9? I always associated these lyrics as 5ish, and perhaps 8>5.
Hard to say. It actually kind of sounds like an Eight complaining about a Nine. Sort of like "Look, you're so apathetic and refuse to see or react to anything that it's making you weak and you're going to lose the battle!" But the lyrics seem kind of ambiguous, so I don't know.
 
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