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MOTM Dec 2012
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INFP's are known for their deep well of "FEELING", whether it's emotions, or memories etc.

The reason I ask is, that my therapist once told me that INFP's were not the only ones who felt deeply, and that I shouldn't think that I was "different" or "special" because of this trait. She told me that almost everyone has the capacity. She almost implied that I, as an INFP, was somehow irresponsible for believing in MBTI, which she did not trust as scientific.

I went home and thought about it some more, and I sort of came to the conclusion that I was being myopic in my view of my self and MBTI. At first, I cringed when she sort backhandedly disparaged MBTI, but afterwards, I had to respect her knowledge and expertise.

I sat her in office, vexed that there was another ocean of knowledge that I have to cross in order to come up with a more well-rounded conclusion.
 

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@refugee You have to realize that it's just a theory. Four letters can enlighten you, show you a hidden part of yourself, but they will never define you indefinantley. That being said, there are people who take Einsten's theory of relativity, and Darwin's theory of evolutuion as the end all be all.

At the end of the day, you're the only one who really knows who you are on the inside. Work with it and use MBTI as a tool for growth, not as something to hold you back. Your therapist should probably not have said that to you though. You should never feel "irresponsible" for trying to learn and understand yourself better. Best of luck to you bro, we're all rooting for you!!! :)
 

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First, MBTI itself isn't inherently false just most of the information gets misinterpreted and too much of the layman stuff is based on behavior which isn't always accurate as its so mood dependent. The theories need updating but we are just now getting to where we have tools to observe and measure a working human brain so...the knowledge gaps will be filled in time. Before things become better scientifically accepted there must first be a theory. Its true its a bit irresponsible to wholeheartedly support a poorly backed theory but whatever, it depends on the conversation entirely.

How could someone establish the depth of feeling from one type to the next? I'd need more specifics.
 

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All humans have capacity for feeling unless they are sociopaths hahaha
Theres no measuring stick for how far such a hole goes though. When I think of people trying to describe how they feel I straight away think of the art forms in our world, showing how you feel is so abstract and personal to yourself that trying to explain it can come out in so many different ways.
But the feeling thinking titles does seem to cause a bit of mischief in with our previously understood meanings of them where with MBTI I think they're somewhat different in how they are to be understood.

But sounds like your therapist is right, I think a lot of people in many ways wish to be different, stand out in some manner. For us I think we might get caught up in our generalised description and think we're less common and rare and misunderstood and all that, feeling special but we're all just people. You could have the most expansive world inside of you but its only worth something if you bring it out to share, other wise those great things inside die with you.
Our perception of ourselves is bound to be slightly slurred into comparison to what we might actually be.
 

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When I first learned of mbti, I invested heavily in it emotionally and when others dismissed it, I became
upset and felt disillusioned.

However, even though there are knowledge gaps and it is a flawed system, my deepest, gut feeling
is that essentially there is truth in it for me. I have proved to myself that it has worked well in healing
myself, developing myself and having vastly improved relationships with others.

I don't care what professionals say or scientists or whatever, I know, when used correctly it is an excellent
tool.
 

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I don't think any one personality type is more capable of "feeling" more deeply than another but I do think some people experience feelings more intensely but cannot bring themselves to acknowledge that they do (for whatever reason).
 

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Hello, Mr. Refugee,

Many people hate the MBTI, but some have never gave it a legitimate chance (many "professionals," for instance), and it's often marred by biased proponents who misuse the tools. Your therapist is indeed knowledgeable, but she doesn't know everything-that's her own perspective, limited by her innate dislike of the MBTI. Which is fine, right? She can believe whichever way she likes. Of course, there's much more to people than 4 letters! However, if you use the MBTI/Keirsey types as they were intended to, I can hardly see any con to it (much of the "damage" it can "cause" is due to misuse, not because it's a "totally off" theory.)

(Your therapist has to deal with the feelings of many types of people, so her "scientific" approach is understandable. However, I still think there are differences among individuals-I just don't believe any individual is inherently superior/inferior to each other due to these differences.)

For the record, I find the MBTI much more positive-and often cheaper!-than some "scientific" personal development tools out there, ironically enough. Ultimately, whatever helps you grow and appreciate yourself, others, and your world is good to me-whether it is "scientifically proven" or otherwise.

As for the "feeling" issue, it is ok to "feel a lot". No problem. That said, I never feel "superior" to anybody just because I am about one of the most emotive individuals you'll ever encounter. I also don't believe that feeling is the absolute "domain" of INFPs, although it is quite common among NFs. Some people feel deeply and hardly ever express it. Some feel "little" and express a lot. Some don't feel much. NTs have feelings, as do SJs and SPs. As an INFP, I do not pretend I am a "master feeler", although I do enjoy who I am very much, and see no reason to feel inferior-or superior-to anybody due to my "depth of feeling."
 

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Uh, im not sure. I know there are some people correlated with types that really do feel uncomfortable in emotionally charged situations but does that make them less feeling? I don't always think it does even if you are an INTP, you just don't value feelings as much but you still experience them. This could also be simply related to chemical imbalances of those that are highly emotional to the point of suffering with emotional dysregulation and that can be caused by genetics in the family or upbringing. The F/T divide is from what I understand a preference for putting weight on logic vs the human element and it can make sense why an F preference might be more feeling even though it is a judging function if they are more affected by emotion and have the capacity for higher empathy.
As for the dominant function for INFP - Fi, I really don't know if it is a more intensive thing for us than other types.
Oh and like @IcarusDreams mentioned, everyone is infallible to make error in their views even a therapist.
 

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If anything, Fi would be the best function for feelings things intensely in oneself. So that would also make ISFPs deep feelers, if that's the kind of answer you're looking for.

But yeah, as everyone else said anyone can feel things deeply. Maybe it's not correlated to MBTI, or any personality theory at all.
 

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The reason I ask is, that my therapist once told me that INFP's were not the only ones who felt deeply, and that I shouldn't think that I was "different" or "special" because of this trait. She told me that almost everyone has the capacity. She almost implied that I, as an INFP, was somehow irresponsible for believing in MBTI, which she did not trust as scientific.
She probably meant that you can't use the MBTI to justify what ever the reason is that you´re seeing a therapist. In any way, your MBTI type is never an explanation for the inability to deal with a problem. However, knowing your MBTI type, you can much easier learn what the right way is for you to deal with a problem.
 

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I think this must be approached on an Individual basis as, no matter what label someone wears, depth of feeling cannot be measured. It's subjective, not an observable measurement. I *think* what your therapist was doing, was trying to get you to not focus on yourself so much and to look outward more at the whole human condition. Reminds me of the REM song Everybody Cries.
 

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I just got out of your thread about semantics and it has a lot to do with the topic of this thread. Because, what the heck is feeling 'deeply' lol. What does that mean? How do you measure it? Do you go by how much you're affected by an emotion? Do you chalk it up to how well you can sense emotions in others? Does it imply your capability of understanding of an emotion?

Nyah. Does it really matter?

I sat her in office, vexed that there was another ocean of knowledge that I have to cross in order to come up with a more well-rounded conclusion.
I don't have much to add because others have already explained a lot and did it quite well.

I don't really think that there's "another" ocean of knowledge: it is about how you perceive the ocean of knowledge that you're already seeing, just with a different light or through a different lens.

Your therapist is right about not feeling like you're 'special' or 'different' because of a natural tendency INFP's have (being attuned to inner emotions, feelings, harmony, that is). Just feel special and different because you are you and there is no other like you! ^^ Whether or not she actually intended to imply that it is your responsibility for believing MBTI, is something I think you should brush off. Inferior Te is probably the cause of this so you're probably taking it more personal than you should (Fi and E5/E4 easily play into this, btw).

It also doesn't take away the fact that you *do* feel deeply. Or so I believe is the truth about you. ^^
 

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INFP's are known for their deep well of "FEELING", whether it's emotions, or memories etc.

The reason I ask is, that my therapist once told me that INFP's were not the only ones who felt deeply, and that I shouldn't think that I was "different" or "special" because of this trait. She told me that almost everyone has the capacity. She almost implied that I, as an INFP, was somehow irresponsible for believing in MBTI, which she did not trust as scientific.

I went home and thought about it some more, and I sort of came to the conclusion that I was being myopic in my view of my self and MBTI. At first, I cringed when she sort backhandedly disparaged MBTI, but afterwards, I had to respect her knowledge and expertise.

I sat her in office, vexed that there was another ocean of knowledge that I have to cross in order to come up with a more well-rounded conclusion.
I believe that some people have the capacity, or tendency to feel things with more intensity than others. But I believe there may be other factors that might contribute to one's tendency to feel things deeply or with such intensity, other than the Myers Briggs system. When I say "feel things with intensity" I mean having a tendency to be overwhelmed by strong emotions (of varying color) for a significant duration of time.

Example - My father is an ESTJ, but boy oh boy, can he feel many emotions with intensity. And he does. What do I attribute this to? Honestly, I think it has a little to do with the fact that he deals with mood disorders and that he is a recovered manic-depressive. He's much more balanced now, but when he went low, he went LOW. When he went high, he went HIGH. He could feel the depths of despair that others probably cannot fathom or conceive of, and he experienced bliss some probably will never know. I attribute this mostly to funky, out-of-balance brain chemistry. I think there are other reasons people may feel life deeply, and this is just one example.

Other possible reasons people feel life deeply or with intensity: past experience, learned behavior, genetic blueprint and brain-wiring, personality type, biological predisposition to mood fluctuations, and lots of other possible things that factor in.

So, if some people have a tendency to feel things with more intensity than others, I wonder if its ever because they are 'allowing' themselves to(?) Perhaps it is a choice to some degree for some of us (?). (Could it be because we want to? Do we want to feel things deeply? - Just food for thought) Regardless of that, it seems to me that many INFP's do find themselves feeling things deeply. I believe there is a correlation. My thoughts are pliable on this subject though.

Maybe you are 'different' and 'special' (because of this trait) but maybe its not because you are an INFP... maybe its just because you are you, and lots of things go into what makes up you besides Myers Briggs.

Anyway, interesting topic.
 

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I'm a psych student and it seems that every professor I have mentioned MBTI to blows me off or seems disinterested. This hurts my feelings, and like you I wondered "What do they know that I don't know?" MBTI was one of the most eye-opening experiences I've ever had in my life. Prior to finding out that there is a race of people that actually think a lot like me, I felt alone in this world and malfunctioned. I truly thought that something was wrong with me. But in the end I decided that this theory is like any other theory.....they're all theory. The fact that this one might not be scientifically proven, as others have stated, makes no difference to me. It helped me out, a lot, and for that I will be ever grateful.

From the little that I've studied thus far, I understand that psychologists usually choose a favorite theory with which to view their patients through. Of course, many incorporate a little of this and a little of that, which I think is good. IMHO, MBTI is just as worthy if used correctly.
 

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Many people hate the MBTI, but some have never gave it a legitimate chance (many "professionals," for instance), and it's often marred by biased proponents who misuse the tools. Your therapist is indeed knowledgeable, but she doesn't know everything-that's her own perspective, limited by her innate dislike of the MBTI.
Are you aware of the fact, @IcarusDreams that this is your standard reaction/ argument when either MBTI or INFP is faced with criticism?

I don't know whether this therapist is biased, because I don't know what she knows and doesn't know, and what her arguments are.

What I do know is this: Dismissing someone's opinion different than yours as bias and stating that 'she doesn't know everything', without knowing what the other person knows or doesn't know, thinks or argues with, is bias.

Confirmation bias is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypothesis, through selective perception.

Implicitely you argue that if she would know as much as what you know, she would have a different opinion.
 

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Are you aware of the fact, @IcarusDreams that this is your standard reaction/ argument when either MBTI or INFP is faced with criticism?

I don't know whether this therapist is biased, because I don't know what she knows and doesn't know, and what her arguments are.

What I do know is this: Dismissing someone's opinion different than yours as bias and stating that 'she doesn't know everything', without knowing what the other person knows or doesn't know, thinks or argues with, is bias.

Confirmation bias is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypothesis, through selective perception.

Implicitely you argue that if she would know as much as what you know, she would have a different opinion.
However, I also said that she is feel to believe as she does; it is her right. There's nothing inherently wrong with not caring about the MBTI-hopefully she knows other useful tools/knowledge that help her deal with her patients. I would bet that she doesn't care about my opinion about INFPs or the MBTI, or about my views about her views-nor do I mind about what she believes, as long as she's really helping people out (which very probably she does.)

I am not arguing by itself, although I of course believe the MBTI to be a useful tool, so in that way I am biased. She probably believes the MBTI is not all it's "hyped up" to be, based on the story. She's doing the best she can, according to her professional training. She's fine in doing this. She doesn't have to believe in the MBTI/Keirsey types at all either to be an effective therapist. My opinion (according to my bias, of course) is that the MBTI is an effective tool, when used properly, and that it must not necessarily be problematic-truly I don't know what she really thinks of the MBTI, but it is pretty safe to assume that (as she said) she's not too fond of Mr. Refugee's "attachment" to the MBTI.

In other words, I don't see the problem, because I never force people to believe the way I do-if somebody says something that I disagree with, I will just express how I feel about it, and the only things I very strongly oppose are the "isms" (typism being one of them), intolerance, that kind of stuff. Other than that, it's totally fine to disagree with me, even if I think you might be "in error", according to my bias/opinion.
 

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However, I also said that she is feel to believe as she does; it is her right. There's nothing inherently wrong with not caring about the MBTI-hopefully she knows other useful tools/knowledge that help her deal with her patients. I would bet that she doesn't care about my opinion about INFPs or the MBTI, or about my views about her views-nor do I mind about what she believes, as long as she's really helping people out (which very probably she does.)

I am not arguing by itself, although I of course believe the MBTI to be a useful tool, so in that way I am biased. She probably believes the MBTI is not all it's "hyped up" to be, based on the story. She's doing the best she can, according to her professional training. She's fine in doing this. She doesn't have to believe in the MBTI/Keirsey types at all either to be an effective therapist. My opinion (according to my bias, of course) is that the MBTI is an effective tool, when used properly, and that it must not necessarily be problematic-truly I don't know what she really thinks of the MBTI, but it is pretty safe to assume that (as she said) she's not too fond of Mr. Refugee's "attachment" to the MBTI.

In other words, I don't see the problem, because I never force people to believe the way I do-if somebody says something that I disagree with, I will just express how I feel about it, and the only things I very strongly oppose are the "isms" (typism being one of them), intolerance, that kind of stuff. Other than that, it's totally fine to disagree with me, even if I think you might be "in error", according to my bias/opinion.
Still, you make it sound like it's the other person's right to be wrong/biased.
It's not so much what you force upon the others though.

But if you will, just FYI:
"In psychological terms, Kelly defined hostility as the willful refusal to accept evidence that one's perceptions of the world are in some way askew from or out of alignment with objective reality. Instead of realigning one's feelings and thoughts with objective reality, the hostile person attempts to force or coerce the world to fit their view, even if this is a forlorn hope, and even if it entails varying degrees of emotional expenditure or harm to self and others.

...Instead the evidence is suppressed or denied, and deleted from awareness - the unfavorable evidence which might suggest that a prior belief is flawed is to various degrees ignored and willfully avoided. Metaphorically, it can be said that reality is being held for ransom, and in this sense hostility is a form of psychological extortion - an attempt to force reality to produce the desired feedback, in order that preconceptions become validated. In this sense, hostility is a response that forms part of discounting of unwanted cognitive dissonance."

Hostility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway...

Yes, I agree that she doesn't appear to be fond of @refugee 's attachment to MBTI (actually he said belief, but we can discuss semantics in another one of @refugee 's renowned threads ;-) ).

But, we don't even know why she would say this, although it seems to me @refugee was linking a particular personal problem or situation to being INFP. In fact, he may have been 'stereotyping' or 'identifying' himself for all we know, and in that sense I could imagine this therapist would spur him to be cautious of that.

Needless to say (you and I have been here before) that this would be somewhat inline with my beliefs and perception, but I am not going as far as assuming this happened.

As far as I am concerned, when it comes to 'deep feelings' I don't see a difference between an 'NT' control freak with OCD or an 'NF' with low self-worth. They are both emotions driven by fear. 'Deepness' is a subjective assessment, and 'feeling' as far as this theory is concerned has more to do with cognitive processing of information based on values rather than having emotions as such. In fact, 'deep feelings' doesn't have much to do with MBTI.
 

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Still, you make it sound like it's the other person's right to be wrong/biased.
It's not so much what you force upon the others though.

But if you will, just FYI:
"In psychological terms, Kelly defined hostility as the willful refusal to accept evidence that one's perceptions of the world are in some way askew from or out of alignment with objective reality. Instead of realigning one's feelings and thoughts with objective reality, the hostile person attempts to force or coerce the world to fit their view, even if this is a forlorn hope, and even if it entails varying degrees of emotional expenditure or harm to self and others.

...Instead the evidence is suppressed or denied, and deleted from awareness - the unfavorable evidence which might suggest that a prior belief is flawed is to various degrees ignored and willfully avoided. Metaphorically, it can be said that reality is being held for ransom, and in this sense hostility is a form of psychological extortion - an attempt to force reality to produce the desired feedback, in order that preconceptions become validated. In this sense, hostility is a response that forms part of discounting of unwanted cognitive dissonance."

Hostility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway...

Yes, I agree that she doesn't appear to be fond of @refugee 's attachment to MBTI (actually he said belief, but we can discuss semantics in another one of @refugee 's renowned threads ;-) ).

But, we don't even know why she would say this, although it seems to me @refugee was linking a particular personal problem or situation to being INFP. In fact, he may have been 'stereotyping' or 'identifying' himself for all we know, and in that sense I could imagine this therapist would spur him to be cautious of that.

Needless to say (you and I have been here before) that this would be somewhat inline with my beliefs and perception, but I am not going as far as assuming this happened.

As far as I am concerned, when it comes to 'deep feelings' I don't see a difference between an 'NT' control freak with OCD or an 'NF' with low self-worth. They are both emotions driven by fear. 'Deepness' is a subjective assessment, and 'feeling' as far as this theory is concerned has more to do with cognitive processing of information based on values rather than having emotions as such. In fact, 'deep feelings' doesn't have much to do with MBTI.
I don't believe I am hostile-not even the definition above aligns itself with what I do (or not do), although it is your right to believe that whatever I tend to do is engaging in hostility. I certainly don't mean the therapist any ill, whether she's "right" or "wrong." "A hostile individual" is probably something that most people wouldn't refer to me as, except for the few bigots I have actually confronted in my life.

It is funny, but yes, I believe that since we all make value judgements at some point, and since some things are "right" or "wrong" for each of us, people actually have the right to be "wrong" in my view-I actually see no problem with that, as long as they are not actively engaging in destructive behaviour against others. Whether I think somebody is right or wrong has no bearing on them having the right to feel/believe as they wish. One could argue that there is no "right" or "wrong", but we always will have a bias one way or the other-what's important is to understand that there's no reason to believe that people must believe and do as we do.

Which is why ultimately avoid debate like the plague. I see no value in winning arguments, although as aforementioned, I will heartily oppose the most horrible things I believe have no excuse or rationale (mass murder for the sakes of "racial purity", and similar inhuman stuff.)
 
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