[undsietanzt]

Hello
I would love to know what you guys would type me based on what I am now going to write about myself. I didn't feel like filling out a certain questionnaire, so I'm just going to tell you a bit about myself, just random things that come to my mind. Don't hesitate to ask me further questions in order to type me. (I'm rather new to the MBTI theory, so I am not too familiar with all the backgrounds and functions and all that jazz. Please forgive me, if the following mess, isn't helpful to you at all.)
Here we go.
I am 23 y/o female and I am very sure that I am an introvert. Especially since I read "Quiet" by Susan Cain (a recommendation!). I don't draw energy from interacting with people. In fact it exhausts me and I am definitely someone who needs to spend time all by myself in order to recharge. That doesn't mean I don't like people or interacting with them. But there is simply a certain level that I can take and once that is reached I start to get tired and irritated and might get quite snappish and annoying towards other people. I hate clubbing, but I love classic houseparties from time to time. I like goofing around, not minding making a fool out of myself, especially when I am kinda tipsy. But on a regular basis I am rather serious. I am in my 5th year of med school and being serious and focused is absolutely necessary, if you want to succeed as a student and later as a doctor. I've done quite well so far, I have no problem interacting with patients. When I started my studies, I was unsure, if I could be a comforter for them, offer emotional and professional support. I guess I can do both now. I really grew during these past years. But I also came to realize that being a doctor is actually not what I want to do with my life. I am simply not passionate about it. Lately I've thought a lot about this. My future, my past, my goals in life. Since I'm not a quitter Im going to work hard to get my degree, but I don't know yet, if I will work as a clinician. I miss a creative outlet. It would be something I would have to take care of in my free time, but lets be honest: A young doctor doesn't have much free time and I don't know, if I could cope with the conditions, if I am not passionate about it. (It's somethinf that's really worrying me these days. My future). My dream is being a psychotherapist (I could become a psychiatrist and then a psychotherapist, so it is possible) and I would love to do dance therapy. It is a thing. I did my research. Which brings me to a passion of mine: dancing. I started doing ballet when I was 4, then I became a figure skater, I quit when I started university and started to do contemporary and jazz shortly after that. Dancing is something I love with my whole heart. Expressing yourself through movement, expressing what cannot be put into words. Feeling the music. I could go on about this forever, but I guess you get the idea. In general I am a rather sporty person. I also love to run (well, I go through phases of motivation where I run on a regular basis, and then I completely lose it and don't run for weeks) and do yoga. I try to be mindful and present in the day. I try to plan (I love planning), but I often find myself to not sticking to my plans, because I want to do everything perfectly and things often take me a lot longer than planned. Yes, I am a terrible prefectionist. I want to excel in everything I do. There is this weird contradiction in me of wanting to be noticed as an excellent (Insert some skill) and not wanting to grab anyone's attention. Can someone relate?
I have a few friendships I believe will last a lifetime. I can't imagine anything that could tear us apart (not even boys ). I'm someone my friends can turn to when they are in trouble (well, an important part of friendship), I will offer support and think of solutions. Yet I myself have a hard time opening up to anyone, even my close friends. I rather overthink my problems completely on my own. I wish I could just go and tell someone, but I hate to make myself vulnerable, even thpigh that's probably not even the case. I am also rather scared of standing up for my believes. I mean I do my thing, but I'd rather not tell many people, because I don't want to have to justify myself or hurt anybody. I crave harmony! I am not resentful. When I fight with someone, which is a rare thing, I am usually the one to say "I am sorry." (I've got to work on that, because sometimes I AM right and should'nt let people walk over me.)

Okay, that's all I can think of just now. I hope you got a slight impression of what kind of person I am. In case I used wierd phrases/wrong grammar, I'm sorry. I am not a native speaker
Take care and bye for now

 

[Soul Kitchen]

ISFJ is my first guess.

Introversion is obvious here. Your post outlines tangible things that relate to your day to day life, without abstracting an intangible concept from it all, which shows sensing. I see a lot of rumination on values, and you pride yourself on doing right by others and long term support, which shows a preference for feeling. You have a strong need to organise things and stick to commitments, which points to judging.

I'm quite willing to answer questions you might have about your type, but I'd like to stick to questions about the dichotomies and their combinations.

EDIT: I noticed that your username is German for "and she dances". Bist du Deutsche? Dein Englisch ist sehr gut.

 

[undsietanzt]

I'm quite willing to answer questions you might have about your type, but I'd like to stick to questions about the dichotomies and their combinations.

EDIT: I noticed that your username is German for "and she dances". Bist du Deutsche? Dein Englisch ist sehr gut.

You mean as in differentiating between sensing/intuition or thinking/feeling etc.? I've read a bit about the difference between sensing and intuition, because that's the letter in my type that i'm most unsure about. I haven't come to a conclusion yet. Additionally, I am unsure when asking me these questions, if my answer is based on what I actually am or what I want myself to be like.
And yes I am from Germany! Danke! I try to watch movies and tv shows in English, if it's the original language and I also read a lot of english literature to improve my skills.

 

[Soul Kitchen]

You mean as in differentiating between sensing/intuition or thinking/feeling etc.? I've read a bit about the difference between sensing and intuition, because that's the letter in my type that i'm most unsure about. I haven't come to a conclusion yet. Additionally, I am unsure when asking me these questions, if my answer is based on what I actually am or what I want myself to be like.
And yes I am from Germany! Danke! I try to watch movies and tv shows in English, if it's the original language and I also read a lot of english literature to improve my skills.

Yeah, dichotomies such as T or F and S or N. When I look for N in people, I look for higher minded conceptual thinking. I don't just mean having ideas about how the world works or being creative and artistic, because sensors do that stuff too. Sensing is not just taking things in with the five senses. What I expect from an intuitive type is a certain preoccupation with the archetype.

As intelligent as sensors can be, they will still tie ideas to things which are tangible to them. For instance, when asked to describe what the sea means to a person, a sensor wouldn't necessarily look at the sea and say "that's the sea". They might instead look at the sea and describe how the effect of the waves makes them feel, or observe the way the waves affect the landscape. But they will still be relating their perceptions to what is observable in some way.

An intuitive, on the other hand, will explore what the idea of a thing more so than the actual thing itself. In my case, I would look at the sea and think of the sea as a dysfunctional relationship between the Moon and the ocean. The ocean yearns to get closer to the Moon and win her affections, while the Moon just tempts him without reciprocating his affections. The tides represent the moods of the ocean as he wrestles with his own affections, and yet the nature of the inner conflict is cyclical without end in sight.

How would you describe the sea?

The Barnum effect is indeed a problem in the typology community, and I suspect many self-typed intuitives are sensors for that reason. While I think the MBTI model has more empirical support than the cognitive functions, which is why I used it in typing you, I will concede it has its flaws. There are a couple of test items in the official MBTI test where some answers obviously sound better than others. If you ask any given person on the street whether they would be abstract or concrete, most people would say they are abstract despite the majority of people being sensors. Even the descriptions of each type tend to overidealise intuitives while making sensors out to be mindless worker drones. No wonder a lot of sensors don't want to recognise themselves in many of those descriptions.

When you read about INFJs, you think of visionaries who are a huge inspiration and influence on the lives of people around them, with an uncanny ability to get human nature and what's on a person's mind. You think of zany and wonderful cranks who make incomprehensible art. But when you read about ISFJs, you might find them to be a lot blander. Just maids and washerwomen who don't forget their P's and Q's.

Bitte. Keep up the good work with English learning.

 

[undsietanzt]

But when you read about ISFJs, you might find them to be a lot blander. Just maids and washerwomen who don't forget their P's and Q's.

This actually made me laugh I totally get what you say here. I guess many people want to be something special and therefore certain types are favored over others.

Well, here is my attempt at explaining what the sea means to me (what follows now is a train of thought, I haven't thought this through): The sea covers 71% of the earth and inhabits the majority of life. It is full of undiscovered and untouched places and in this sense it resembles the universe, everything beyond and the human brain. So much we don't know, so much yet to discover. The sea can be a monster, swallowing ships and planes (The Bermuda-Triangle ), but it can also be calm and peaceful, greeting us with its gorgeous torquoise color. The sea reminds me of childhood, building sandcastles that later got destroyed by the flood. It reminds me of lazy days when I felt its cooling effect on my heated, sun burned skin after reading too long in the sun. The sea reminds me of the fear its force triggered in me, the fear of drowning, losing orientation in the waves that could easily shake my body around. The sea seems to have uncountable personalities, you never know what it has in store for you. The sea should be respected by us. The exploitation has to stop or else we might get into trouble (this is actually a reference to a book called "Der Schwarm" by the German author Frank Schätzing, where the sea finally revolts against humanity (or something like that, I haven't read it)).
So there you have it. Probably a bland and boring ISFJ-housewife writing (just kidding)

 

[Soul Kitchen]

This actually made me laugh I totally get what you say here. I guess many people want to be something special and therefore certain types are favored over others.

Well, here is my attempt at explaining what the sea means to me (what follows now is a train of thought, I haven't thought this through): The sea covers 71% of the earth and inhabits the majority of life. It is full of undiscovered and untouched places and in this sense it resembles the universe, everything beyond and the human brain. So much we don't know, so much yet to discover. The sea can be a monster, swallowing ships and planes (The Bermuda-Triangle ), but it can also be calm and peaceful, greeting us with its gorgeous torquoise color. The sea reminds me of childhood, building sandcastles that later got destroyed by the flood. It reminds me of lazy days when I felt its cooling effect on my heated, sun burned skin after reading too long in the sun. The sea reminds me of the fear its force triggered in me, the fear of drowning, losing orientation in the waves that could easily shake my body around. The sea seems to have uncountable personalities, you never know what it has in store for you. The sea should be respected by us. The exploitation has to stop or else we might get into trouble (this is actually a reference to a book called "Der Schwarm" by the German author Frank Schätzing, where the sea finally revolts against humanity (or something like that, I haven't read it)).
So there you have it. Probably a bland and boring ISFJ-housewife writing (just kidding)

I really loved reading your description of the sea. The sea was outer space before we could build ships that flew above our planet's atmosphere. So much to explore, and so much still unknown to us. Reading this and reading your original post, I still think you're more of a sensor because your insights about it are directly related to observable aspects of the sea itself.

So yeah, I'm still going with ISFJ, but feel free to take my opinions on your type with a grain of salt.

 

[undsietanzt]

So yeah, I'm still going with ISFJ, but feel free to take my opinions on your type with a grain of salt.

I read a bit about the ISFJ personality type and it resonnates with me a lot. Whenever I took a test I got the INFJ. The first time I took an MBTI test (not the real one, I would never pay for that ) I was quite shocked by the results and how much the description of the INFJ resembled myself (especially the concept of the "old soul", being an extroverted introvert, feeling misunderstood all the time, being absent-minded and a dreamer; but I guess that this isn't really something that couldn't be applied to other types as well). I found great blogs about introversion and INFJs, but I was always asking myself "Am I really an INFJ?" I even considered INFP, but I was always too lazy/busy/uninterested to really educate myself about the functions and the differences between them and the whole concept of MBTI. When I read through the type descriptions of ISFJ and INFJ I can see a lot of both in myself and I honestly cannot say which one suits me better. I also can't really say, if I favor Sensing over Intuition. The tests online often aks questions such as "Do you find yourself lost in thoughts when wandering through nature?" Yes, I do! But that doesn't make me more of an intuitive, right? Or something like that: "Do you remember events in detail?" I, personally, have some snippets in my head, like photographies. For example I remember what a certain person wore or what he/she said to me or what he/she smelled like. But I would have difficulties to give a detailed and chronologically ordered report of an event to someone, because there is this one detail that I focussed on when memorizing it and I tend to overlook everything else or simply forget about it. And when I want to tell the story, I am overly excited to come to this certain and important point, that it simply doesn't make sense to anyone/isn't funny at all.

 

[undsietanzt]

Also, is there a link between enneagram and MBTI? I've always typed as a 4w5 and sometimes 5w4. Are certainenneagram types linked to ceratin MBTI types or are these two distinct concepts? I did a quick research and haven't found my findings very helpul :/

 

[Soul Kitchen]

Also, is there a link between enneagram and MBTI? I've always typed as a 4w5 and sometimes 5w4. Are certainenneagram types linked to ceratin MBTI types or are these two distinct concepts? I did a quick research and haven't found my findings very helpul :/

One reason I don't like the enneagram system - other than the unwieldy number of number combinations - is that it can be used to justify any typing of any particular person. So that INFP over there orients all of their values and major decisions around external criteria of success, and not out of an inner need for purity? Oh, they are an INFP 3w2, so they happen to be different from your usual INFP 4w5!

It's absurd.

 

[Turi]

You misspelt "perfectionist".

Do you resonate with this?

 

[Turi]

One reason I don't like the enneagram system - other than the unwieldy number of number combinations - is that it can be used to justify any typing of any particular person. So that INFP over there orients all of their values and major decisions around external criteria of success, and not an out of an inner need for purity? Oh, they are an INFP 3w2, so they happen to be different from your usual INFP 4w5!

It's absurd.

Hm. I get what you're saying, and have noticed it.

Perhaps Big 5/SLOAN is an option?

I've noticed the correlations between that, and MBTI, tend to stack up.

Big Five Personality Test


I mean if you were to get, say, INFP and INFJ on mbti style tests, and you resonate with Enneagram type 4 (often associated with Fi) and you get RxUAI, you're probably an INFP.

 

[Soul Kitchen]

Hm. I get what you're saying, and have noticed it.

Perhaps Big 5/SLOAN is an option?

I've noticed the correlations between that, and MBTI, tend to stack up.

Big Five Personality Test


I mean if you were to get, say, INFP and INFJ on mbti style tests, and you resonate with Enneagram type 4 (often associated with Fi) and you get RxUAI, you're probably an INFP.

Yes, I believe there is a correlation between the MBTI dichotomies and the Big Five dimensions (minus neuroticism). In fact, it's largely due to the correlation between MBTI and the less questionable Big Five model that made me convert from functions to dichotomies, hence why I'm willing to humour MBTI for a bit longer.

I know that you think @undsietanzt might be an Fi-Se, and that we are effectively approaching her type from two different angles. But what are your thoughts on this? Do you see @undsietanzt as an ISFP from a dichotomies perspective?

I suppose a preference in one's motives could make or break the difference between whether they are a P or a J, but from a Harold Grant perspective, you would be arguing whether someone was an Fi-Ne-Si-Te or an Ni-Fe-Ti-Se. This is one reason I try to separate Jung and MBTI. From a purer Jungian perspective, INFP or INFJ would be the choice between whether Ni or Fi was dominant, although P and J do not correlate cleanly with rational and irrational functions

 

[Birbsofafeather]

@undsietanzt

I think INFJ or ISFP is for you, but I lean towards INFJ. And not just because of the stereotypical desire to be a psychotherapist, of course.

Dancing is something I love with my whole heart. Expressing yourself through movement, expressing what cannot be put into words. Feeling the music. I could go on about this forever, but I guess you get the idea.

This is very Se and feeling oriented. The INFJ I know is a massive fan of singing for a similar reason. You are most likely on the Ni-Se axis. There is a possibility you are also ISFP due to the nature of being an introverted feeler on the Ni-Se axis, so check that out as well.

I try to plan (I love planning), but I often find myself to not sticking to my plans, because I want to do everything perfectly and things often take me a lot longer than planned. Yes, I am a terrible prefectionist

This is quite typical of Ti.

But I also came to realize that being a doctor is actually not what I want to do with my life. I am simply not passionate about it. Lately I've thought a lot about this. My future, my past, my goals in life

A very Ni pondering to ponder.

I could have the INFJ I know generate some further questions, if you would like.

 

[undsietanzt]

You misspelt "perfectionist".

Do you resonate with ?

Thank you for pointing that out? (Was this a joke or something like that? )
I checked the description.
Se: "They live in the moment and prefer dealing with things that are real and solid over the purely hypothetical." I do not resonate with that. I do not live in the moment. I either think of the future or dwell on the past. I know that this is a rather unhealthy behavior, so I try to acknowledge my surroundings and enjoy the moment, but it's definitely something I have to force myself to. I am a daydreamer at its finest. As I child I was actually making up stories in my mind while I was out for walks with my family and would write them down later. One was about animals living in a huge carved pumpkin.
Fi: "At their best, Fi-dominant types (FiSe and FiNe) are masters of self-care and great at putting healthy boundaries in place. They are very empathetic people, so they see the needs of others and want to care for them. However, healthy Fi-doms know that they cannot effectively care for others unless they first care for themselves. They know their limits and aren’t usually afraid of saying ‘no’ when they aren’t able to do something or fit something into their lives." No, sadly. I usually say "yes", bevause first I get excited to take on a new responsibility/be some sort of a help, and then I realize, oops that might have been to much. How am I going to cope with that? And then I end up doing it anyway, leaving me exhausted and stressed and anxious, but not showing it at all. People perceive me as the quiet, but calm and confident one, even though that's often not the case.

"This process can be very connected to deep emotions, and they might find themselves laughing or crying at the beauty of a seemingly random object that has meaning to them, while bystanders who notice their reaction might be quite confused at their sudden outburst" - me

"An Fi user’s moral code is derived from what their conscience or "gut instinct" tells them is right, generally treating others the way they themselves want to be treated" - That sounds about right, but I would not force something on someone just because I feel it is right for me. I'd rather think about what is right for them in their personal situation that probably differs from mine.

"Fi’s driving instinct is to achieve inner harmony by remaining true to themselves and their values while minimizing the influence that external factors (societal expectations, and maybe even the opinions of friends and family) have on their values." - I wish I was like that. It's something I still have to learn. Standing up for my believes and not caring too much what other people think...

I think I rather use Fe (do you say it like that? I "use" a certain function?). I realize what I need to do/how I need to act to make other people happy, I sense how they feel simply by glancing at them or talking for a bit. I have to interact with a lot of people at work. The nurses, doctors and most of all many patients and I've realized that I can have a positive impact on people's mood with what I say/how I act around them, if I actively engage in that. Is my understanding of Fe correct?
I also did this Big5 Test and I got RLOAI. The description of that result was, to put it carefully, quite offensive. Basically I am a weak, anxious, lonely, incredibly self-conscious person that plans out everything in detail and has health problems all the time. And that is NOT true.

 

[undsietanzt]

[MENTION=495690]

I could have the INFJ I know generate some further questions, if you would like.

That would be lovely

 

[Soul Kitchen]

I also did this Big5 Test and I got RLOAI. The description of that result was, to put it carefully, quite offensive. Basically I am a weak, anxious, lonely, incredibly self-conscious person that plans out everything in detail and has health problems all the time. And that is NOT true.

Reserved = Introvert, Limbic = Neuroticism (not an MBTI dichotomy), Organized = Judging, Accommodating = Feeling, and Inquisitive = Intuition. There is a correlation between RLOAI and the INFJ type.

The negative slant towards your Big Five type description can be attributed to the neuroticism in your results. The descriptions for all the neurotic types are negative and critical. For what it's worth, I tested as Limbic as well, so I share your pain.

Your preference for inquisitiveness calls my assessment of you being a sensor into check. I'll admit that I might have gone too far in the opposite direction in rebuking sensor bias, to the point of coming around full circle to an intuitive bias. Perhaps I might have set an unreasonable criteria for what makes a person an intuitive, where if a person didn't describe abstractions in a way that was completely and utterly detached from the object, I would question if they were an intuitive in the first place. Even when you were relating your insights about the sea directly to the sea itself, you were still talking about an overall vision or idea involved. The idea of the unknown and the prospects of possibility in that unknown.

Maybe you are an INFJ?

 

[Birbsofafeather]

To directly quote the INFJ after sending her a copy of your post:

"Yup INFJ, easy.

Ask her if she loves the idea of drinking hot chocolate as she looks up at the first snowflakes of winter as they fall past a streetlight at night

Or if she likes laying underwater and looking at how weird the reflection of the surface of the water looks from down below."

Oddly specific imo, but these are the sorts of things she likes to talk about sometimes. Strange Ni-Fe processing.

 

[undsietanzt]

To directly quote the INFJ after sending her a copy of your post:

"Yup INFJ, easy.

Ask her if she loves the idea of drinking hot chocolate as she looks up at the first snowflakes of winter as they fall past a streetlight at night

Or if she likes laying underwater and looking at how weird the reflection of the surface of the water looks from down below."

Oddly specific imo, but these are the sorts of things she likes to talk about sometimes. Strange Ni-Fe processing.

Wow! This is so strange to read, because I've basically had the exact same thoughts and many more in that kind of "style". Like sitting on the window sill with a hot cup of tea and watching the rain running down on the glass leaving traces and weird patterns that change all the time.
Well thanks a lot for taking your time to help me out

 

[Turi]

I also did this Big5 Test and I got RLOAI. The description of that result was, to put it carefully, quite offensive. Basically I am a weak, anxious, lonely, incredibly self-conscious person that plans out everything in detail and has health problems all the time. And that is NOT true.

How is it not true?
You've literal told us you're an introvert and need to develop a backbone of sorts to stand up for your own beliefs more, and to stop bending over for everyone else.

You've also practically told us you're self-conscious.

I understand a couple of people here think you're an INFJ - RLOAI certainly supports that, I'm not sold, but this would support an IxFJ typing..

In an IxFJ, Fi acts as a "critical parent" function - comes out like this:

IxFJ's Can angrily hit others with individual personal or universal ethical "truth":
•I'M the authority on ethics! Your behavior shows a lack of personal integrity. [I feel I'm not living up to the personal (internal) side of ethics with my external focus, and I project it onto you].

(quote is from here)

Does this not sound very similar to what you just projected on to me?
"omg those big 5 traits are offensive (although accurate according to your own posts), not true"

To directly quote the INFJ after sending her a copy of your post:

"Yup INFJ, easy.

Ask her if she loves the idea of drinking hot chocolate as she looks up at the first snowflakes of winter as they fall past a streetlight at night

Or if she likes laying underwater and looking at how weird the reflection of the surface of the water looks from down below."

Oddly specific imo, but these are the sorts of things she likes to talk about sometimes. Strange Ni-Fe processing.

I thought we all pretend we're dying, when we do the lay underwater thing.

 

[undsietanzt]

@Soul Kitchen Thank you for the explanation! I think you probably missed one of my previous posts in this thread (right before I asked about a correlation to enneagram types). There I mentioned that actually I've almost always tested as an INFJ and it think is resembles me very well. Some aspects don't fit me properly and I've always been a bit unsure about intuition, so that's why I asked on here. But then again there are often things that I just know without having a proper explanation for it. And I try to use my senses and be aware of my surroundings, because 1) it's can be unhealthy to rarely appreciate the beauty of the moment and be absent-minded all the time and 2) it can be dangerous (I've been almost knocked off my bike far too many times, because I wasn't paying attention at all :O).
I don't know, I guess I might prefer N over S, but I also have developped a well-functioning S to support my mental-health? Does that make sense?