[QuietStorm]

This was slightly inspired by that 'Argumentative' post, as well as an encounter I had recently in this forum.

Do you ever find yourself drawn to someone you've only ever argued with?

I find that to be my first response... When I have a deep (and, sometimes heated) argument with someone - doesn't matter what the subject matter is, or how it started - I find that I'm drawn to them, I want to be their friend, I want to be around them more. Of course, I don't go out of my way to talk to them or anything, but I do feel that urge. And if ever I come across them, I try to talk to them. They usually don't feel the same though - so, at present, I have only had one lasting friendship come of it (9 years).

Is that weird? Can anyone relate?

 

[nadjasix]

This was slightly inspired by that 'Argumentative' post, as well as an encounter I had recently in this forum.

Do you ever find yourself drawn to someone you've only ever argued with?

I find that to be my first response... When I have a deep (and, sometimes heated) argument with someone - doesn't matter what the subject matter is, or how it started - I find that I'm drawn to them, I want to be their friend, I want to be around them more. Of course, I don't go out of my way to talk to them or anything, but I do feel that urge. And if ever I come across them, I try to talk to them. They usually don't feel the same though - so, at present, I have only had one lasting friendship come of it (9 years).

Is that weird? Can anyone relate?

It's not weird. A lot of people really enjoy intense debate and discussion. I majored in philosophy so I could seek out these opportunities in life. They don't come up often, but I honestly believe it's one of the most "authentic" forms of interaction there is. In the agathon you can form intense bonds.

Of course, different people have different thresholds for intensity. I scored "Reserved Creator" on that personality DNA test- I think the "creator" type is just a very intense individual. Some people feel very uncomfortable with this style of interaction. But to me there are few things as satisfying as helping other people purge, penetrating defenses, and "soul-baring", if you will. It's a little like one of those experimental therapy sessions from the 1970s :wink: I try to avoid involving the posters who don't care for that type of thing.

 

[Deathbagel]

I can relate, and I find arguing to be a fun activity, but I recognize that most people don't share this view. I suppose if I had a good argument with somebody and they shared my enjoyment of it... well that at least would be pretty enticing.

On a similar note, I really like it when I can share observations and connecting theories about various things going around us both in immediate surroundings and the world at large with the person I'm with. Partially because it lets me flex my sensorial and analytical muscles so to speak, but there's also an intimacy to it. Like in that moment it's the two of us alone looking out on the rest of the world, I don't know, it's a very strong feeling of togetherness, I like it.

 

[QuietStorm]

I already feel less like a perverse alien!

I think what pisses people off when I argue with them, though, is that I'll poke holes in their arguments or point out flaws in their theories ... not many people want to be friends with you when they think you're playing dirty --- but I usually do it because I don't like listening to half-baked ideas. Sometimes, I'm just trying to help them strengthen their argument... but it's hard to explain it like that because it comes across as 'insincere'. Can't help that, though.

 

[Intelligent]

Yeah, I come off as argumentative, well, I met somebody in League of Legends, we were playing together, after having been on Skype for a bit(an hour?) they noted that I like to argue, I don't know...I just like to speak and learn from others(he's a much more experienced MOBA player and I was trying to learn some things from him) but I guess my way of prompting information seems like I'm being argumentative or even confrontational, though I'm not sure exactly how he interpreted it, maybe he understood, don't know.

 

[nadjasix]

I already feel less like a perverse alien!

I think what pisses people off when I argue with them, though, is that I'll poke holes in their arguments or point out flaws in their theories ... not many people want to be friends with you when they think you're playing dirty --- but I usually do it because I don't like listening to half-baked ideas. Sometimes, I'm just trying to help them strengthen their argument... but it's hard to explain it like that because it comes across as 'insincere'. Can't help that, though.

Some people experience challenges to their arguments or opinions as challenges to their ego or identity. I think we all do, to some extent, but some people are just entirely unable to separate their sense of self from the point they're arguing in a debate.

I remember I used to have the most amazing discussions with a friend's dad, who was an ENTJ and a professional journalist with decades of experience. They had the character of debates, and one of us would often take a devil's advocate position. The sparring was the fun. But other people would get uncomfortable watching because they couldn't imagine two people could just debate for the sake of it, and they'd experience the discussion as a form of conflict. Meanwhile we were laughing and high fiving for really witty pwnings. It was really something to see...

If you're one of those people who doesn't like intense debates, the best thing to do is to avoid them, I'd imagine. There's a handy ignore function that I've begun using recently.

 

[nothingnew]

Politics I find to be one of the most interesting things. Family, workplace, local, state, federal, global; all of it gives me real world situations to digest.

 

[nadjasix]

Politics I find to be one of the most interesting things. Family, workplace, local, state, federal, global; all of it gives me real world situations to digest.

It goes to the core of who we are and how we live. "The personal is the political."

 

[theorycraft]

I can relate. I am a masochist that likes the feeling of defeat. I go out and search for people that can "beat" me and the more they do it the more I am attracted to them and want to be around them. It implies that they know more than me and know more special tactics than I do. I just want to learn their special tactics. All my good friends are "better" than me in some aspect. I am drawn to people that intimidate me, because those are the people that will challenge me the most.

 

[QuietStorm]

I just want to learn their special tactics. All my good friends are "better" than me in some aspect. I am drawn to people that intimidate me, because those are the people that will challenge me the most.

You too, huh?
My closest friends all have qualities that I admire immensely. Most of them, I can have deep, heartfelt debates with, and quite a few of them started out that way - as people I would have periodical debates with, before I truly got to know them.

PS: Sorry, I corrected one of your words - more to suit my meaning than anything else.

 

[BUtheBabyUnicorn]

I too, seem to be drawn towards people that I can argue with.
Maybe they just don't seem as spineless as the rest of the human race. XD
...but rarely anyone who I've come head-to-head with feels the same.

 

[theorycraft]

When I meet people, the first thing I do is evaluate them base on what they excel at. If you don't show me what you are good at, I assume you are mediocre. I will still be your friend, but it won't be the type of relationship that energies me. I won't be attracted to you as much in a sense, because I have nothing to learn from you unless I missed something. However, if you are gifted, smart, or talented in some aspect, you will catch my eye. And if you are knowledgeable in an area that I am interested in, I want to attach myself to you and suck all that information out. I want to adsorb your powers, like Sylar from Heroes. I see it as a rational and incentive based view on people and relationships. But I can also see how it can come off as very shallow and narcissistic.

 

[Epherion]

Yes. Unfortunately i hate having my views under attack. Shakes my foundation. But, OTOH it does give me a chance to review my stance and hone it, when i get around to it.

 

[Playful Proxy]

For me, it depends on how the debate went. If all the person said was emotional bologna and got all emotional with it, I actually want to spend LESS time with them.

 

[nadjasix]

For me, it depends on how the debate went. If all the person said was emotional bologna and got all emotional with it, I actually want to spend LESS time with them.

Yeah, same here. It's really tough when people don't recognize that their unexamined assumptions and biases (even culturally sanctioned ones) are not exempt from rational critique, too. For example, the fact that porn is enjoyable and legal does not mean it is immune to ethical criticism. Many males on the porn thread were presenting entirely values-laden, "but what about me?" atomistic arguments that ignored the broader social implications of porn viewing. The definition of an emotional argument. (Eddie was the only male on the thread who presented socially viable and rational alternative to the status quo. But then, he's a pro...)

Some people need an immediate lesson in rhetoric and formal logic before they can be even remotely interesting debate partners. I find that people who haven't read any political philosophy have trouble with the fact that all political debates are by their very nature rhetorical.

 

[luxurieux]

There's a friend of mine that I quite often post about in the venting thread (sorry, I can seem like a homocidal psychopath in these) who I'm very close to. I argue with him constantly. It got so bad recently that we didn't talk for a week straight. But we always kiss and make up (figuratively speaking, of course). We can almost always talk out our problems and make an effort to fix whatever flaws that caused the argument in the first place. But. I'm drawn to him for some reason. Can't explain it. He's like my go-to guy for whatever problem I'm having.

Mostly it's just pointless arguing because our personality types are so different. He's an ISFJ. Debates can be interesting with him, but arguments are inevitable.

 

[QuietStorm]

There's a friend of mine that I quite often post about in the venting thread (sorry, I can seem like a homocidal psychopath in these) who I'm very close to. I argue with him constantly. It got so bad recently that we didn't talk for a week straight. But we always kiss and make up (figuratively speaking, of course). I'm drawn to him for some reason. Can't explain it. But he's like my go-to guy for whatever problem I'm having.

Heh... I have/had a friend like that. He's actually the reason I finally decided to join this forum. We haven't talked in a bit though, and I'm not entirely sure I'd want to talk to him again - well, that's not true. I'd talk to him again, but this time I wouldn't want to be the one to start the conversation.

In any case, we usually argue. It used to be 'just for fun', little mock debates and arguments. Then over time those turned into real arguments and disagreements. And now, I've realized that he belittles me with snide comments and when I call him out on them, or as him to explain something he has said, or justify an accusation he has made, he completely glosses over it or gives the most vague explanation and expects me to roll over and admit I'm in the wrong.
To be fair, I'm pretty stubborn when I get riled up about something, but I don't take verbal assaults lightly.


Which is why it's all the more strange that I'm drawn to people I can argue with!! (Well... those 'people' usually don't insult my intelligence intentionally).

 

[luxurieux]

Heh... I have/had a friend like that. He's actually the reason I finally decided to join this forum. We haven't talked in a bit though, and I'm not entirely sure I'd want to talk to him again - well, that's not true. I'd talk to him again, but this time I wouldn't want to be the one to start the conversation.

In any case, we usually argue. It used to be 'just for fun', little mock debates and arguments. Then over time those turned into real arguments and disagreements. And now, I've realized that he belittles me with snide comments and when I call him out on them, or as him to explain something he has said, or justify an accusation he has made, he completely glosses over it or gives the most vague explanation and expects me to roll over and admit I'm in the wrong.
To be fair, I'm pretty stubborn when I get riled up about something, but I don't take verbal assaults lightly.


Which is why it's all the more strange that I'm drawn to people I can argue with!! (Well... those 'people' usually don't insult my intelligence intentionally).

I thought we were talking about the same person for a minute there....

 

[Playful Proxy]

There's a friend of mine that I quite often post about in the venting thread (sorry, I can seem like a homocidal psychopath in these) who I'm very close to. I argue with him constantly. It got so bad recently that we didn't talk for a week straight. But we always kiss and make up (figuratively speaking, of course). We can almost always talk out our problems and make an effort to fix whatever flaws that caused the argument in the first place. But. I'm drawn to him for some reason. Can't explain it. He's like my go-to guy for whatever problem I'm having.

Mostly it's just pointless arguing because our personality types are so different. He's an ISFJ. Debates can be interesting with him, but arguments are inevitable.

I know how arguments between differing types goes. My mother is an INFJ and she has a REAL powerful moral code she lives by. Every time she tries to argue with it as the forerunner, my Ti tries to shoot it down and all that creates in her is anger and a repeat of her last statement.

 

[nadjasix]

I know how arguments between differing types goes. My mother is an INFJ and she has a REAL powerful moral code she lives by. Every time she tries to argue with it as the forerunner, my Ti tries to shoot it down and all that creates in her is anger and a repeat of her last statement.

So you're saying no INTP could ever be interested in ethics?

Socrates, dude.

I love it when INTPs assume that anybody who disagrees with something they believe does it because of type. It's like the egocentric bias writ large. What I find funny about INTPs in debate is that, due to Fe, they tend to think that the most logical argument is the one that fits in best with whatever the prevailing norm is. Dat extroverted feeling.

Then they'll deny to the hilt that they're doing this, because it's their quaternary function. They're out of touch with their feelings, therefore they believe they have none. INTJs are much better at debate for this reason. Their Fi ranks higher up on their functions list, so it's better integrated with their thinking function, and the two work harmoniously.

Personally, the INTP function I've never related to is Fe. I don't think I have it. (It's the secondary functions for INFJs, however...) This is why I consider myself an INTX. Because I believe I'm an INTP with quaternary Fi.

And Carl Jung spins in his grave...