Personality Cafe banner

1 - 5 of 5 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Who do you think is the most egoic (in the "spiritual" sense), thinkers or feelers? In other words, who really believes that their perception is right at any given time? I suppose this has to do with objectivity. Thinkers are supposed to value the objective, while feelers value the subjective. My thought is, if thinkers are attempting to be objective, doesn't this make them less confident in their perceptions most of the time, because they value questioning them in order to know the "real" truth? And if feelers value subjectivity, wouldn't this make them more confident in their perceptions most of the time because they value their own subjective perceptions over the "real" truth? So, taking this into account, who would be the most egoic, meaning who falsely believes/defends their own mind more often? It seems one would initially think Thinkers, because they're the ones who seem to value mind more, but I think this may be ironically untrue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
573 Posts
Interesting idea. I'm honestly not sure this can be pegged to MBTI--firstly, subjective vs. objective isn't really the realm of thinking and feeling, which are more about analysis vs. evaluation. In the Jungian sense all of the extroverted functions are "objective", i.e. oriented outward to the object while all the introverted functions are subjective i.e. oriented inward to the subject/self. So introverted thinking might be focused on the logical and intellectual, but external facts still play second fiddle to the internal system of Ti.

Secondly, I think there are too many different definitions of the ego; would you mind elaborating a little bit more on what you mean by that term?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Ego, as I'm using it, is essentially the part of the mind that wants to believe in, identify with, and defend its current condition, whether that be a mental position (thoughts/values), your identity, or your consciousness itself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,623 Posts
I suppose this has to do with objectivity. Thinkers are supposed to value the objective, while feelers value the subjective.
Not really. Both Fi and Ti are subjective judging functions, like all introverted function are - just like Ni and Si. I think you may be asking which extroverted function may seem more right which would be asking which external function is more likely to believe they are right, Fe or Te as both deal with "objective" judgements from external sources. Or maybe you are more concerned about Ti and Fi?

My thought is, if thinkers are attempting to be objective, doesn't this make them less confident in their perceptions most of the time, because they value questioning them in order to know the "real" truth?
Te and Fe both attempt to be "objective" because they adhere to external resources to make their choices/decisions. They take things from the outside to formulate their decisions because they may or may not know how they truly think or feel inside and they feel more comfortable using outside criteria to guide them then their internal ones. You often get comments from Fe users that they don't trust their feelings but they trust other people's. Or you often get comments from Te users about trying to be logical and adhering more to external or logical standards. Both are using external stimuli to help them make choices/decisions.

Fe/Te users either aren't aware of their own interior process or they don't trust it enough to make sole decisions on them like Ti and Fi do. They are concerned with that outer world and what could be applied to that outside world - while introverted functions care only about what the subjective person thinks or feels, the world comes second. You could make the argument that Fe/Te users are concerned with the objective because they do not know what is inside or don't trust what is inside enough to guide them. But at the same time you could say that Ti/Fi users could be wrong because they are only concerned with their own morals or logic and that isolates them from the bigger human context. It's a conflict of interior vs. exterior - both can be right and wrong.

And if feelers value subjectivity, wouldn't this make them more confident in their perceptions most of the time because they value their own subjective perceptions over the "real" truth?
Fe isn't really subjective, it takes the group context into account and is more concerned with feelings of others, that's not subjective really it's taking the feelings of the entire room into context to create a greater objective feeling and then using that to make choices or decisions for the group as a whole. What works best for the group I am participating with -- that is why Fe is often called a diplomatic function. It is overly concerned with making sure everyone or at least the majority is appeased and the peace is kept. What you are talking about seems more like Fi -- my interpretations are right because they are mine and anyone who doesn't agree with that is wrong. It's using a subjective method and holding it to the group and then valuing if the group is right or wrong on it's own personal merits. That is true subjectivity.

Fi and Ti are more concerned with their own relative, real truths more then Te and Fe are.

So, taking this into account, who would be the most egoic, meaning who falsely believes/defends their own mind more often?
I would say that can't be Fe or Te because they are taking things from the external and valuing their thoughts to mold to the external criteria that makes them up. Ti and Fi would be more likely to believe their own personal logic/feelings more so then Te and Fe because Ti and Fi spend so much time making them up internally and focusing on them extensively. Te and Fe are all about outside criteria to judge information and that makes them malleable because the external changes and as extroverted functions they are adapting to those changes from the outside. The introverted functions are self generating and don't care as much about the outside as the external functions do. This can be why Ti and Fi users are seen as stubborn and frustratingly all about their own thoughts, ideals and the way things should/have to work. They don't value external systems as much as they value their own personal internal ones.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,382 Posts
No one. Ego doesn't depend on type. Ego depends on individuals.
 
1 - 5 of 5 Posts
Top