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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Gotcha INTJ and INFJ lurkers! :kitteh::laughing::mellow:

Before reading further:
1. I'm referring to INTJs and INFJs, because they are our most popular matches, apparently (yeah, just great, with INFJs supposedly being 1% of the population and INTJs being 2% of the population!).
2. Keep an open mind as this post is relative, people are of course different and I don't mean to generalize, but just share impressions I've gathered so far and expand my learning further by engaging in dialogue with you.
3. My observations are based on limited practical experience (1 INTJ, 1 INFJ and a bunch of other Fi/Fe Ti/Te people in my environment).

To the point.

I'm enjoying bathing in that delightful energy between ENFP and INFJ, electricity is on the highest levels I've experienced (and I'm experienced with high voltage) and finishing each others' thoughts is a lot of fun, BUT what concerns me is:
-> Finishing each others' thoughts doesn't bring new perspectives and my mind isn't challenged enough.
-> Fe in INFJs makes them too adaptive to their environment and in conversations they struggle to talk about what they like/think as individuals, instead they pick up on trends, generalize or somehow become the other person, instead of staying true to themselves. Which clashes with my Fi and I'm a particularly strong individualist, so I'm always more concerned about what I think/feel and what the other person, as an individual, thinks/feels than what the masses care about. I'd actually usually try to go against the masses anyway. If there is too much harmony, there is no growth! And I'm mostly interested in learning/experiencing new things.
-> Fe reacts emotionally in a non-coordinated way. They explode because they need to explode in order to figure their shit out, and the receiver of that emotional spam has to not take it personally or try to rationalize it, or do whatever might seem constructive to me as Fi+Te. When that emotional, Fe isn't interested in hearing solutions, but in just living their emotion supported by the other person. Which again clashes with my way of dealing with things. I don't go around expressing my emotions to figure them out, I normally quietly sink in them on my own to understand them and I will talk about them when I'm making more sense to myself. I find it unfair to put any emotional burden on other people, which is why I don't let anyone be in my radius when I'm under quarantine. Now, there is potential for growth for me here perhaps - to learn from Fe and let people in when I'm messy, but it's really hard since 1) no one makes sense to me when I don't make sense to myself and often I don't see value in other people's opinions, because I believe I'm the only person who holds the answer for myself (I might gather perspectives from others, but I usually produce more perspectives than anyone else and only I can FEEL the right answer anyway), 2) when I'm in volcano mode, it's more intense than the volcano mode of Fe and I suspect Fe will run for the hills when I hit them with that. :laughing:

ENFP and INTJ. Mentally it's a very satisfying sparring, even though INTJ's reasoning is just silly sometimes. But that's ok, because I mostly manage to turn things around in front of them, showing them a new perspective, and communicate it in a way that makes sense to them. So actually convincing them in something isn't as hard as I expected it to be. On the other side, even if their perspective is not new to me, they bring more richness to my understanding about it. Thanks to their Fi (I guess), I'm normally having a conversation with the individual and not with myself or some bigger unit of people. Ok, they are a bit alien-like about casual stuff, which makes them weirdoes, but I dig weird and I often intentionally try to be weird (sometimes just for fun, I love shocking people :laughing: ). If they go weirder than what is fun/makes sense to me, though, it clashes with my Te wanting things to be efficient and worth my energy/time, and with my Ne wanting to explore other things and not dwell on one in particular. Whereas INFJs being so good at adapting, could meet me halfway. I don't have enough experience with INTJs yet to figure out if my F can be that deeply satisfied the way it is when playing with another F (high voltage is so damn addictive!). I imagine they would be more grounding and therefore high voltage can't be reached. I'm curious to try!

What is the same, though, with both INFJs and INTJs is that I have to do all the work, damn it! If I don't hit them like a meteor, I'd have to wait ages for the INFJs to figure their F (and my F about them) out and for the INTJs to do their T routine. Waiting is painful for me, I just want to get on with it and see how it goes from direct experience like ASAP!

If I can summarize what's bothering me most about INFJs and INTJs is:
* if INFJs can challenge me mentally enough and if we can handle each other's volcano modes,
* if INTJs can connect with me on a F-level in a high enough voltage to satisfy my desire for depth and intensity.
Obviously, no two people can give each other everything they need, they just need to figure out their priorities.

To be continued (in real life, too :laughing:).
 

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I still haven't found myself with a magnetic connection to an INTJ, irl. Soooo count me bias to the INFJs.

I have no idea if I've met the genuine INTJ article but if they have passed me by. If it's the latter then surely it's not as magical as it should be?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have no idea if I've met the genuine INTJ article but if they have passed me by. If it's the latter then surely it's not as magical as it should be?
Yeah, that's what I meant! Magic is mostly F to me. It has to feel extraordinary. Maybe F is easier to connect to but eventually dies out, if not backed with something more grounding. Or do we have long ENFP-INFJ relationship testimonials here to prove this theory wrong?

INTJs are probably the gold you need to dig for day and night, but then never want to let go of. My precioussss! :laughing:
 

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INFJ has all our shadow versions, and is a more soft and feeling person than INTJ which could come out as colder, therefore would have to somehow get that "connection" for it to work, yes. Both has the same top function.
Though INTJ secondary is Extraverted thinking while INFJ feeling. Both have their challenges, pros and cons.
I can imagine both working, but personally, from a stereotypical standpoint, I'd pick INFJ any day until life shows me otherwise.

Also, maybe female ENFP tend to easier be attracted to INTJ meanwhile, male to INFJ. :shocked: no? just a thought.

 

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I'm an INFJ that has been with an ENFP for seventeen years. I'm an enneagram four wing five, so I don't follow trends nor do I ever stray from being true to myself ( even being a Fe user). I might be a bit biased, but I have a hard time seeing much wrong with the INFJ + ENFP pairing. That's not to say that an INTJ can't be a good match. I just am commenting from my own life experience.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you for sharing, @INForJoking ! I'm an enneagram four, too, which is probably why it especially bugs me when the other person isn't being particular about what he/she likes/thinks, etc. I can normally still reach the individual with the right questions/actions, but I prefer that it happens naturally. I like knowing where the other person stands and when people shine as who they are.

What do you like about the INFJ-ENFP pairing, what does it give you?
 

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To be honest, I don't mind the INTJs. I respect them too much to ever consider a confrontation; which mainly has to do my reverence for their patron saint, J.S. Bach. It's those damned ENTPs I really hate; always corrupting our innocent ENFPs.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
To be honest, I don't mind the INTJs. I respect them too much to ever consider a confrontation; which mainly has to do my reverence for their patron saint, J.S. Bach. It's those damned ENTPs I really hate; always corrupting our innocent ENFPs.
Haha, corrupting how? :)
 

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To be honest, I don't mind the INTJs. I respect them too much to ever consider a confrontation; which mainly has to do my reverence for their patron saint, J.S. Bach. It's those damned ENTPs I really hate; always corrupting our innocent ENFPs.
*coughs*



Ya don't say... Haha!

... can't... really deny that.
 

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Gotcha INTJ and INFJ lurkers! :kitteh::laughing::mellow:

Before reading further:
1. I'm referring to INTJs and INFJs, because they are our most popular matches, apparently.
2. Keep an open mind as this post is relative, people are of course different and I don't mean to generalize, but just share impressions I've gathered so far and expand my learning further by engaging in dialogue with you.
3. My observations are based on limited practical experience (1 INTJ, 1 INFJ and a bunch of other Fi/Fe Ti/Te people in my environment).

To the point.

I'm enjoying bathing in that delightful energy between ENFP and INFJ, electricity is on the highest levels I've experienced (and I'm experienced with high voltage) and finishing each others' thoughts is a lot of fun, BUT what concerns me is:
-> Finishing each others' thoughts doesn't bring new perspectives and my mind isn't challenged enough.
-> Fe in INFJs makes them too adaptive to their environment and in conversations they struggle to talk about what they like/think as individuals, instead they pick up on trends, generalize or somehow become the other person, instead of staying true to themselves. Which clashes with my Fi and I'm a particularly strong individualist, so I'm always more concerned about what I think/feel and what the other person, as an individual, thinks/feels than what the masses care about. I'd actually usually try to go against the masses anyway. If there is too much harmony, there is no growth! And I'm mostly interested in learning/experiencing new things.
-> Fe reacts emotionally in a non-coordinated way. They explode because they need to explode in order to figure their shit out, and the receiver of that emotional spam has to not take it personally or try to rationalize it, or do whatever might seem constructive to me as Fi+Te. When that emotional, Fe isn't interested in hearing solutions, but in just living their emotion supported by the other person. Which again clashes with my way of dealing with things. I don't go around expressing my emotions to figure them out, I normally quietly sink in them on my own to understand them and I will talk about them when I'm making more sense to myself. I find it unfair to put any emotional burden on other people, which is why I don't let anyone be in my radius when I'm under quarantine. Now, there is potential for growth for me here perhaps - to learn from Fe and let people in when I'm messy, but it's really hard since 1) no one makes sense to me when I don't make sense to myself and often I don't see value in other people's opinions, because I believe I'm the only person who holds the answer for myself (I might gather perspectives from others, but I usually produce more perspectives than anyone else and only I can FEEL the right answer anyway), 2) when I'm in volcano mode, it's more intense than the volcano mode of Fe and I suspect Fe will run for the hills when I hit them with that. :laughing:

ENFP and INTJ. Mentally it's a very satisfying sparing, even though INTJ's reasoning is just silly sometimes. But that's ok, because I mostly manage to turn things around in front of them, showing them a new perspective, and communicate it in a way that makes sense to them. So actually convincing them in something isn't as hard as I expected it to be. On the other side, even if their perspective is not new to me, they bring more richness to my understanding about it. Thanks to their Fi (I guess), I'm normally having a conversation with the individual and not with myself or some bigger unit of people. Ok, they are a bit alien-like about casual stuff, which makes them weirdoes, but I dig weird and I often intentionally try to be weird (sometimes just for fun, I love shocking people :laughing: ). If they go weirder than what is fun/makes sense to me, though, it clashes with my Te wanting things to be efficient and worth my energy/time, and with my Ne wanting to explore other things and not dwell on one in particular. Whereas INFJs being so good at adapting, could meet me halfway. I don't have enough experience with INTJs yet to figure out if my F can be that deeply satisfied the way it is when playing with another F (high voltage is so damn addictive!). I imagine they would be more grounding and therefore high voltage can't be reached. I'm curious to try!

What is the same, though, with both INFJs and INTJs is that I have to do all the work, damn it! If I don't hit them like a meteor, I'd have to wait ages for the INFJs to figure their F (and my F about them) out and for the INTJs to do their T routine. Waiting is painful for me, I just want to get on with it and see how it goes from direct experience like ASAP!

If I can summarize what's bothering me most about INFJs and INTJs is:
* if INFJs can challenge me mentally enough and if we can handle each other's volcano modes,
* if INTJs can connect with me on a F-level in a high enough voltage to satisfy my desire for depth and intensity.
Obviously, no two people can give each other everything they need, they just need to figure out their priorities.

To be continued (in real life, too :laughing:).
I would say that I'm in a good position to comment on this - my best friend is INFJ and my husband is an INTJ - but they're both pretty exceptionally well-rounded, so I'm not sure how much of this is helpful for less developed INTJs/INFJs. My INFJ friend is very much an individual, highly intellectual and loves learning, so we're both always bouncing new information and thoughts off of each other, and my INTJ husband is very capable of connecting on a feeling level. Aside from them, I do know at least one other INFJ and two other INTJs.

Some of what you said definitely rings true in my experience:
- INFJs can be tricky to maneuver around. They sometimes take things your say or do the wrong way and read waaaayyy too much into it. I'm sorry, but I'm not that devious/intentionally mean. Casually speculating that the sandwich you made me would be good with onions isn't my way of saying your sandwich was bad. I don't think like that at all. When an INFJ goes down an unexpected emotional road like that, it's shocking and confusing and tends to make you tread on eggshells. That's not fun. And as you said, the ENFP volcano is probably too much for a lot of INFJs to handle. That being said, if you've both hit maximum loyalty, the INFJ may be willing to work through it, even if they are a little traumatized.

- As you mentioned, INTJs can be weird about regular stuff. However, you will find that if you observe and ask questions, there are probably reasons for it that are not readily apparent to onlookers. And, if you make yourself just go with it and accept them for who they are, you'll probably find yourself getting over it and find it well worthwhile. It's fairly easy to do if you find an INTJ who has a good working knowledge of what is and is not socially acceptable. Mine has some quirks, but to be fair, I have a lot of quirks too. Don't criticize them for being different; it's not a bad thing (usually) - you just have to be ready to adapt.

Some other things of note:
- I don't know if this is true of most INFJs, but my friend is slightly OCD about cleaning and neatness. I am not. For this reason, even though we're great friends, we would never have worked well as roommates in college. (And she's utterly horrified that I have my wisdom teeth in a sealed bag on the kitchen counter.)

- It took us a while to work this out and it caused some tensions in our friendship, but when INFJ is venting, providing a different perspective doesn't help. Considering different perspectives and all possible outcomes from the data is my modus operandi and usually is at least somewhat helpful in discussing frustrations with some other types I know. But not INFJs, or at least not this one. She will feel that you are taking sides against her. Again, this is not how I think, but I've managed to adapt enough (and so has she) that it isn't as big of an issue. Another thing that helped alleviate misunderstandings and miscommunications was that we agreed that any potentially emotional subjects or concerns should be discussed in person or over the phone, not via text.

- INTJ men, once they have opened up to you, are beautiful, delicate creatures. You must be very gentle with them, or you risk doing them serious permanent damage. Their shell may be remarkably tough, but they are very soft and gooey inside - so gooey they may find themselves surprised and even frustrated by how gooey they are. If they really like you or love you (sometimes even just as friends), they will become surprisingly clingy and attached, so be prepared for this. (Not a bad clingy, at least in my experience - and a lot of ENFPs love it and soak it up; it can be overwhelming for some introverts, though.)

- Your relationships with INTJs and INFJs will suffer if you express doubt that they know what they're talking about. This is because both of them tend to mostly present complete thoughts and opinions (venting and actual brainstorming aside) to the public. What you might think is a fun exploration of an idea, theory, or concept to present different solutions to, they might misunderstand as an attack. INFJs may feel that you're not on their side and become distrustful, or feel that you don't trust their perspective on life (cue in-depth self-examination of everything, and probably serious anxiety), and INTJs will be hurt that you think they didn't already think of all the things (if they haven't thought of all the things and you contributed something they missed, they will probably just feel embarrassed; remember, be gentle!). As long as you're around easy-going INTJs/INFJs and can spot the difference between brainstorming and them presenting a complete thought and knowledgeable opinion, you should be fine. (Something interesting of note: direct disagreements on ideas seem to have a much more intense negative effect on INFJs than INTJs. It may be that INTJs are better able to disagree with you and still respect you - as long as you actually have a good logical reason to disagree with them - than INFJs are. It's not that the INFJs I've met are not logical - they are usually just as logical as the INTJs are - they just seem to find the disagreement more distressing, depending on what it is.)
 

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[...] Fe in INFJs makes them too adaptive to their environment and in conversations they struggle to talk about what they like/think as individuals, instead they pick up on trends, generalize or somehow become the other person, instead of staying true to themselves. Which clashes with my Fi and I'm a particularly strong individualist, so I'm always more concerned about what I think/feel and what the other person, as an individual, thinks/feels than what the masses care about. I'd actually usually try to go against the masses anyway. If there is too much harmony, there is no growth! And I'm mostly interested in learning/experiencing new things. [...]
The healthy INFJ [snicker . . . "healthy INFJ" . . . as if . . . ] is like the projectionist in a multiplex cinema. Though he's projecting different pix all the way around, he himself is always the same he. To know him, you've got to penetrate beyond the movie and somehow get into the projection room. So, despite what I floated the other day about only existing contextually, we do stay true to ourselves . . . it's just that you don't know it. We carefully select the movies we show in our theater. What isn't us isn't seen. But what is seen in any of the theaters isn't all of us.

"If there is too much harmony, there is no growth!" Yes, absolutely. I've occasionally mentioned with dismay the widespread opinion that relationships should be like synchronized whatevering at the Olympics. No! There should be cross-pollination of (mutually well-wishing) opposites to achieve an improved hybrid. (Fortunately, no one who knows me well would have any suspicion of me providing too much harmony.) We INFJs are notoriously hard on our friends because we're hard on ourselves, our friends being part of ourselves (in our twisted estimation). We seem harmonious because we don't waste our time on the shallow little trifles that so captivate others; we save our slug-fests for dealing with the important things, which others frequently don't concern themselves with.

(Always speaking with the caution that my unusual highly-developed Se might make my experiences/opinions differ from those of more normal INFJs. [snicker . . . "normal INFJs" . . . as if . . . ].)
 

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[...]
Some of what you said definitely rings true in my experience:
- INFJs can be tricky to maneuver around. They sometimes take things your say or do the wrong way and read waaaayyy too much into it. I'm sorry, but I'm not that devious/intentionally mean. Casually speculating that the sandwich you made me would be good with onions isn't my way of saying your sandwich was bad.
We INFJs take it as you questioning our foresight, judgment, knowledge of you, and sandwich-making expertise. We say to ourselves, "I've moved mountains to be a perfect person, and it's not enough," which makes us feel like impotent failures, and so we kill the messenger.

I don't think like that at all. When an INFJ goes down an unexpected emotional road like that, it's shocking and confusing and tends to make you tread on eggshells. That's not fun. And as you said, the ENFP volcano is probably too much for a lot of INFJs to handle. That being said, if you've both hit maximum loyalty, the INFJ may be willing to work through it, even if they are a little traumatized.
Just say, "Hmmm, this sandwich is GREAT! [pensively:] I wonder how it would taste with onions--what do you think?

- As you mentioned, INTJs can be weird about regular stuff. However, you will find that if you observe and ask questions, there are probably reasons for it that are not readily apparent to onlookers.
Reasons reasons always reasons gaaaahhhhh!!!!!! Reasons [edit: without feelings] are meaningless.

And, if you make yourself just go with it and accept them for who they are, you'll probably find yourself getting over it and find it well worthwhile. It's fairly easy to do if you find an INTJ who has a good working knowledge of what is and is not socially acceptable. Mine has some quirks, but to be fair, I have a lot of quirks too. Don't criticize them for being different; it's not a bad thing (usually) - you just have to be ready to adapt.
INTJs are delightful companions for logical enquiries, even into the most difficult subjects. I've had four- and five-hour-long philosophical discussions with my INTJ brother which made solid progress and were highly satisfactory to both parties. But go into the realm beyond logic, and . . . things get very sticky.

Some other things of note:
- I don't know if this is true of most INFJs, but my friend is slightly OCD about cleaning and neatness.
Can't speak for other INFJs, but I'm not that way.

I am not. For this reason, even though we're great friends, we would never have worked well as roommates in college. (And she's utterly horrified that I have my wisdom teeth in a sealed bag on the kitchen counter.)
Ewwww.

- It took us a while to work this out and it caused some tensions in our friendship, but when INFJ is venting, providing a different perspective doesn't help.
INFJs pathologically consider different perspectives themselves. When you provide another perspective we haven't thought of, it makes us feel inadequate and that we've failed ourselves. And it makes us think you think we're so stupid we couldn't have thought of that ourselves. And so we kill the messenger. That's two fatalities so far. Bummer.

Considering different perspectives and all possible outcomes from the data is my modus operandi and usually is at least somewhat helpful in discussing frustrations with some other types I know. But not INFJs, or at least not this one. She will feel that you are taking sides against her. Again, this is not how I think, but I've managed to adapt enough (and so has she) that it isn't as big of an issue. Another thing that helped alleviate misunderstandings and miscommunications was that we agreed that any potentially emotional subjects or concerns should be discussed in person or over the phone, not via text.
In person. Always in person. We need to see body language.

[...]

- Your relationships with INTJs and INFJs will suffer if you express doubt that they know what they're talking about. This is because both of them tend to mostly present complete thoughts and opinions (venting and actual brainstorming aside) to the public.
Yes.

What you might think is a fun exploration of an idea, theory, or concept to present different solutions to, they might misunderstand as an attack. INFJs may feel that you're not on their side and become distrustful, or feel that you don't trust their perspective on life (cue in-depth self-examination of everything, and probably serious anxiety),
Yes and yes.

and INTJs
And INFJs

will be hurt that you think they didn't already think of all the things (if they haven't thought of all the things and you contributed something they missed, they will probably just feel embarrassed; remember, be gentle!). As long as you're around easy-going INTJs/INFJs and can spot the difference between brainstorming and them presenting a complete thought and knowledgeable opinion, you should be fine.
Yes.

(Something interesting of note: direct disagreements on ideas seem to have a much more intense negative effect on INFJs than INTJs. It may be that INTJs are better able to disagree with you and still respect you - as long as you actually have a good logical reason to disagree with them - than INFJs are. It's not that the INFJs I've met are not logical - they are usually just as logical as the INTJs are - they just seem to find the disagreement more distressing, depending on what it is.)
INTJs, with their world of reasons and facts, are accustomed to changing the complexion of things when they learn new reasons and facts, so they're used to the hurley-burley of this process. INFJs have already summoned up and worked out the entire world, and beyond, from the facts and reasons and whimsicalities and feelings we already have, and so are more personally bound up in our ideas and notions. You take away one card, and our whole house of cards falls down. We find this . . . disquieting.
 

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INTJs are probably the gold you need to dig for day and night, but then never want to let go of. My precioussss! :laughing:
Oh no! :blushed: *plays hard-to-get* :tongue:

You ENFPs always know how to turn us INTJ Kuuderes into Hajideres in a heartbeat. How do you do that? It feels warm and tingly even though it makes us squirm (which we know you love). Fortunately, a lot of us have a "masochistic" streak (for lack of a better term).
:happy:
INTJ men, once they have opened up to you, are beautiful, delicate creatures.


You must be very gentle with them
:kitteh:


or you risk doing them serious permanent damage.
We have a way of turning our inner brokenness into strength. That strength being empathy. Granted, this is a learned skill that one acquires over time.

Their shell may be remarkably tough, but they are very soft and gooey inside
I can't tell you how much it means to have our humanity recognized.



so gooey they may find themselves surprised and even frustrated by how gooey they are.
Fact.



If they really like you or love you (sometimes even just as friends), they will become surprisingly clingy and attached, so be prepared for this. (Not a bad clingy, at least in my experience - and a lot of ENFPs love it and soak it up; it can be overwhelming for some introverts, though.)
We're not letting go! Never!
:blushed::kitteh:






:tongue:
 

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@Dennitsa You're welcome! We met when I was teen and before we knew each other's MBTI or enneagram. We just were very lucky to meet so early on in life. He is strong in areas that I am not and I'm strong where he isn't. We make the best trivia team because between the two of us one usually knows the answer. We share the same humor, same musical taste, we both love museums, art, and most entertainment. He is some version of a 9,7,2 enneagram, so he balances out my moodiness. Now, before I get punched for bragging about my fortunate relationship, we do argue sometimes and I can be a bit harsh when I'm upset and angry. I'd say he's the nicer of the two of us, but I'm nice once I know I can trust people.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I don't know if this is true of most INFJs, but my friend is slightly OCD about cleaning and neatness. I am not. For this reason, even though we're great friends, we would never have worked well as roommates in college. (And she's utterly horrified that I have my wisdom teeth in a sealed bag on the kitchen counter.)
That brought a cheeky smile on my face :) because I took out my wisdom teeth last autumn and since then I show them around and when I don't, keep them in a drawer at home, fantasizing about turning them into a necklace or a pair of earrings. Ah, creepy and cool is an awesome combo! I'd just love people's faces when they see me wearing them! :kitteh::mellow:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The healthy INFJ [snicker . . . "healthy INFJ" . . . as if . . . ] is like the projectionist in a multiplex cinema. Though he's projecting different pix all the way around, he himself is always the same he. To know him, you've got to penetrate beyond the movie and somehow get into the projection room.
Penetrate how? :tongue:

I'm pretty direct in my communication and I try to make it clear where I stand on things or at least how I think/feel about them, and it's so much easier when the other person is like that as well. Whereas here is how an INFJ talks about say, monogamy (I'm simplifying my responses below to strengthen the contrast):

ENFP: I'm monogamous. You?
INFJ: That’s fair enough.
ENFP: I'm monogamous. You?
INFJ: I used to get very jealous but not too much anymore, kinda destroyed me. I feel my feelings and move them aside so I don’t ruin things with the other person. The point is letting go and being free of things that control you.
ENFP: I'm monogamous. You?
INFJ: There’s one woman I have met and she’s married and is open to him seeing and having sex with others and is doing the same. It’s more about the enrichment of other people in your lives make the life you share with the one person better.
ENFP: I'm monogamous. You?
INFJ: I read an article about more women taking part in infidelity bc it actually saves their marriage bc they feel better towards their partner they’ve built a life with. Although it’s a scary thought if you aren’t that way inclined.

What the hell?! Is that a yes or a no?! :dry: Sounds to me like he's been adapting to women who aren't monogamous, but his personal statement is too blurry for my taste. I do appreciate talking about other people's experiences and articles we've read and so on, but most of all I want to know exactly where you stand, what you feel and what you think!

Reasons reasons always reasons gaaaahhhhh!!!!!! Reasons [edit: without feelings] are meaningless.
Now that I think about it, INTJs' personal statements could occasionally not make that much sense to me either, because they sometimes appear to be based on anything but direct experience/feeling (we are all doing that partially, I just have the impression INTJs do it more than me, because they observe/think more than they act or they look at something too wide instead of looking at the individual/concrete). Which is just not relevant enough for me, because I value the individual before the group (when someone generalizes, I get tempted to talk about exceptions :p). And also not comprehensive enough in my opinion - for me, everything needs to contribute to a conclusion - fact, personal experience, feeling, etc. I might tend to put more value on one of those elements at certain times (boy, how I can get stuck in either Fi or Te!), but I try to remind myself that's not the full picture. Which is why I'm flexible to bounce ideas/perspectives, I strive to improve my understanding. I think INTJs probably have the same goal, but the approach is different. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Oh no! :blushed: *plays hard-to-get* :tongue:

You ENFPs always know how to turn us INTJ Kuuderes into Hajideres in a heartbeat. How do you do that? It feels warm and tingly even though it makes us squirm (which we know you love). Fortunately, a lot of us have a "masochistic" streak (for lack of a better term).
:happy:
Yes, we do love it! :happy: We love making magic by helping people shine as who they are or by opening them up to new sensations and possibilities!

How is it that every time you comment, I want to go Elmira on you! :mellow: With more gentle hugging, though! :)

 

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