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Who Is Better At Tolerating Shame?

  • NTs

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • NFs

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • STs

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • SFs

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    3
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Discussion Starter #1
Who would you say, from experience, observation or just plain theoretical understanding/reasoning tolerates feelings of shame better? Who can dismiss these feelings easier and who might not care about doing shameful acts as much due to less of a priority on these after-feelings? Feelers or Thinkers? Which temperament?
 

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My experience and observation tells me Fi users tolerate it better in general, high Fi better than low Fi because they have more control over it. It makes sense theoretically too. Inferior F function users, ExTJs and IxTPs, are worse at detecting it or better at suppressing it, but that's not really the same as handling. I think internally ExTJs would be better at handling it while IxTPs might look more civil about it because of the extraverted component, because Fe might care about its image more. But this comparison is purely theoretical, I haven't observed it.

And generally thinkers may be more reluctant to express or acknowledge shame so when it comes to dismissing the feeling or continuing actions despite the negative feedback they might be better but I haven't seen that happening, it's usually Fi users who continue doing it.

For me personally (INTP), it depends on whether I'm insecure about the particular instance or if I'm confident in my actions. If I'm confident, shaming me might just make me stubborn.
 

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Dario Nardi compared ENFJs and INTPs reactions to embarrasment, in which he found that with ENFJ the reaction remains in the same area but is accurately adjusts to the stimulus whereas with INTP the area remains "blank" until the stimulus is the highest possible and the "hyper-stimulation" spreads to surrounding brain areas as well.

Not sure how realiable these findings are, but it supports the theory in the sense that for the feelers feeling (shame) should be about adaptation, and for the thinkers it is out of conscious control and can be overwhelming as such.

As for anecdotes, I have always been very sensitive about embarrasment but it has been under my conscious control... whereas the INTP I know seemed largely unaffected or indifferent by most attempts to embarras him, although when he did experience shame it was incredibly powerful and consuming, and that showed in his reactions as well. I don't think it's about dismissing anything as much as simply being unaware of it.
 

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I do not think it is T vs F

I think Fe users so FJ & TP are more likely to have shame because of well Fe. (I am not saying Fi does not have shame but it does not show it generally). And obviously there are plenty of Fe users without shame. But I think Fe users have more of a tendency to feel flustered if they themselves discover or realize or another person shames them.

I am not saying Fi does not feel shame but they are way more stubborn about exposing it. Obviously they internalize their feelings, lol.

I think it is healthy to have shame as long as it is within reason. And most types T or F that are healthy experience doses of it. Shame helps the conscientious develop into healthy ego imo. Shame can be dangerous tho as even myself as a parent tries to be extremely careful about balancing that. I think some shame is very necessary to teach. (And some parents are afraid to shame their children at all and allow them to hold any guilt, I think that is a disservice to their child. But I also think over shaming can create complexes and make a child question their core).

SO really I think shame is universal but you will SEE Fe display it more.

I think of my mother alot with this because as a child this was a huge pet peeve of mine with her (it is not anymore because I understand her). But back then she would internalize. And I knew she did something just blatantly wrong. It was never the mistake I held against her. It was always that she would never acknowledge any shame like EVER lol. But I understand her alot better as an adult she did have shame it was just Fi. The more combative one got on trying to expose it tho the more she would oppose and appear outwardly like she had none. I get this now. And respect it and let her be. And work thru her own process. I understand her reaching out in acts of service is her way to ammend any shame she feels. And that is the que she is not verbalizing but saying hey I am a schmuck.

Uh but you can never do right by your kids entirely lol. My kids think I over explain myself. I probably do that to counter how I always felt as a child. My eldest is like mom you explain yourself more then any parents. Well because I want them to understand I have shame and regret for where I do them wrong. And I am not always proud of everything. (I am not always apologizing or excusing no just explaining I have shame for some of my actions, because it always bothered me that was not done).

Anyways shame is good with in reason. It is displayed differently tho.
 

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Who Tolerates Feelings Of Shame Better- Feelers Or Thinkers?
This is an enneagram issue;
Type 4s are more likely to tolerate their shame,
Type 3s are more likely to pretend there was no shame,
Type 2s are more likely to make sure there was no shame.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
This is an enneagram issue;
Type 4s are more likely to tolerate their shame,
Type 3s are more likely to pretend there was no shame,
Type 2s are more likely to make sure there was no shame.
What about the rest of the enneagrams?
 

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Questions like these are difficult by default. A lot depends on interpretation of the question. For example: I think that Fi types are generally better at handling emotions (although definitely not always). On the other hand, Fe types tend to be better at placing hostile remarks in context and letting it not affect them (thus, not letting it develop into a feeling of shame at all).

So, which one would be better? Depends entirely on the specific question you're asking. Besides that, we could only say something about the general capacity to learn to deal with it, not the dealing with it itself. Dealing with emotions is part born into and part learned, as are most human behaviours.
 

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What about the rest of the enneagrams?
The heart triad (2, 3, 4) are the only types that deal with these emotions directly; since you're a type 7, read this information to see which type might be in your tritype fix;

Twos attempt to control their shame by getting other people to like them and to think of them as good people. They also want to convince themselves that they are good, loving people by focusing on their positive feelings for others while repressing their negative feelings (such as anger and resentment at not being appreciated enough). As long as Twos can get positive emotional responses from others, they feel wanted and are able to control feelings of shame.

Threes try to deny their shame, and are potentially the most out of touch with underlying feelings of inadequacy. Threes learn to cope with shame by trying to become what they believe a valuable, successful person is like. Thus, Threes learn to perform well, to be acceptable, even outstanding, and are often driven relentlessly in their pursuit of success as a way of staving off feelings of shame and fears of failure.

Fours attempt to control their shame by focusing on how unique and special their particular talents, feelings, and personal characteristics are. Fours highlight their individuality and creativity as a way of dealing with their shameful feelings, although Fours are the type most likely to succumb to feelings of inadequacy. Fours also manage their shame by cultivating a rich, romantic fantasy life in which they do not have to deal with whatever in their life seems drab or uninteresting to them.
 
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