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Discussion Starter #1
I've questioned giving people relationship advice over and over again because

1. Relationships are complex and giving a step by step guide would be a books worth of information.
2. Because I don't even know if people deserve my advice in the first place.

I read around a lot online and I see countless examples of how both men and women make horrible mistakes that hold them back in the dating market (Even here). There seems to be common trends for men and common trends for women that I see which are cringe worthy.

What's your opinion on the matter? Do people deserve relationship advice or should we just let sexual selection take care of it (Survival of the fittest)?


This ignores friends and family of course as I believe that my friends and family are valuable and are definitely worth sharing knowledge to. I'm speaking specifically about random people on the internet.


If people are worth giving advice to (and I don't know how I'd justify that), then I have soooo much knowledge to share. Everything from clothing styles, psychology, pitfalls of relationships, red flags, green flags, personality theory, evolution, culture, etc.

You could even branch this out further and ask yourself "Is anyone deserving of the personal knowledge that I've accumulated"?
 

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Alright, Denature, first off, cool avatar picture. :cool:

One more thing, why are INTJs so cool? Always asking the most intriguing questions :laughing:

But really, "nobody deserves" your (others') advice. They can request it and people may offer/give it. But entitlement? Eh?

Most people don't like the disempowered feeling. Don't like being told how to live their own life.
“The lips of wisdom are closed, except to the ears of understanding"
There are a few people that seek the advice and are ready to receive/apply it. Emphasis on few.

1. Relationships are complex and giving a step by step guide would be a books worth of information.
This. All of this. Agreed.

Some people aren't worth your time and effort of giving advice.
Most won't apply it.
There's usually some form of a disconnect between your worldview/perspective and theirs, always something lost in translation. Almost like the telephone game.

What's your opinion on the matter? Do people deserve relationship advice or should we just let sexual selection take care of it (Survival of the fittest)?
Sexual selection. Hahaha. That's up to the individual, can't make a general consensus on that. Or rather, that's your opinion to decide upon. I say you pick and choose how you want to help people on each specific situation. I've given relationship advice... (if it is advice at all really) but mainly just online. And most of it is severely limited because I don't know anything beyond what I'm told on my screen. In person, I don't fuck with that unless they ask me. And even then, I need to know a lot of details before I'll even offer anything. But if that's all taken care of, I can give some pretty good insights.

In the end, serving as a role model of behavior is the best way if anything at all.

You could even branch this out further and ask yourself "Is anyone deserving of the personal knowledge that I've accumulated"?
Why not? Put a price tag on it. Or abundance mentality, have opportunity to give? Give! Or don't cast pearls before swine. Or tell them to fuck off, your knowledge is for your own life's situations and applications.

I can relate to what you mean about giving away a lot of the extensive knowledge you have to strangers, especially internet strangers. I like giving advice because it strengthens my own knowledge of it all to teach. But most of my best advice is never online. It's not possible, I don't know the people well enough. And I have this perspective that people could easily google answers. So utilizing me as a resource or some google search, it's all the same, likely they're doing that. Eh.

I'll just say it's not a question of whether they are deserving. If that was the main reason why I gave insights, I'd feel more of a loss in value by giving advice, rather than "sharing abundant value". Like, what if I gave advice and realized later on they weren't deserving? I lost out! Fuck me! But I'm under the impression the little that I shared with someone, was but a tiny bit of a huge well of insights, wisdoms, data, perceived truths, etc. I'm not losing out at all, so why not give a little?
 

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Penny for your thoughts

No literally just a penny

I tossed it in the fountain you will have to grab it out.

Point, while you may have some profound insight your thoughts are more than likely not worth much more than that of anyone else's meandering opinions. If you would like to spend your days coming up with insight and deem no one worthy of your subject matter I guess there is always philosophy.

Eh so were you like gifted this mighty sight of brilliance through the touch of an elder in a remote village, a dream, or a car accident where you came back to life. Or lifetime experience?
 

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I wouldn't overestimate the risk of anyone actually making use of good advice, most people just look for whatever "advice" would affirm their interpretations and narrative within the situation seeking positive affirmation and legitimacy for what they already want to do.
 

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I'd only take advice from someone with a proven track record of whatever it is I want to achieve. I'm not going to to listen to someone about relationships if they've only been in a few, or had many but none over a few months. So, that being said, what qualifies you to give advice in the first place?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
“The lips of wisdom are closed, except to the ears of understanding"
There are a few people that seek the advice and are ready to receive/apply it. Emphasis on few.
I like this quote.
This does seem to be the case.

There's usually some form of a disconnect between your worldview/perspective and theirs, always something lost in translation. Almost like the telephone game.
That's part of the reason why I stated it would be a books worth (if not more) of information. There are a variety of fundamentals that people would need to accept to make use of my advice. (Some I think many would rather not accept).


In the end, serving as a role model of behavior is the best way if anything at all.
I agree, but when it comes to relationships, they are more often than not personal and therefore harder to transfer this knowledge to others.

I'm under the impression the little that I shared with someone, was but a tiny bit of a huge well of insights, wisdoms, data, perceived truths, etc. I'm not losing out at all, so why not give a little?
That's one way of looking at it. Thanks for your insights (The irony haha).

Eh so were you like gifted this mighty sight of brilliance through the touch of an elder in a remote village, a dream, or a car accident where you came back to life. Or lifetime experience?
Experience, books, conversations with others, articles, videos, you name it. I find human relationships interesting as they are multi-faceted/complex.

I wouldn't overestimate the risk of anyone actually making use of good advice, most people just look for whatever "advice" would affirm their interpretations and narrative within the situation seeking positive affirmation and legitimacy for what they already want to do.
This is true.

I'd only take advice from someone with a proven track record of whatever it is I want to achieve. I'm not going to to listen to someone about relationships if they've only been in a few, or had many but none over a few months. So, that being said, what qualifies you to give advice in the first place?
This is ironic. Why would you take relationship advice from someone who's failed a multitude of times at relationships? If anything, it's a proven track record of how horrible they are in finding the right person.

I've benefited from my personal 'philosophy'. I don't want to get into detail about my personal life, but I'm happy. Honestly, a lot of my advice you'd think is just common sense, but also coupled with other important rationale.
 

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What's your opinion on the matter? Do people deserve relationship advice or should we just let sexual selection take care of it (Survival of the fittest)?
There is a lot of practical good and healthy knowledge out there in books, grandparents, etc. The problem is most people needing it don't care about it and do whatever they want (just like we did), and for most challenges most people usually think "it won't happen to me" or believe they can overcome it. What I mean is we all deserve knowledge, advice, etc, in fact we all kind of repeat the same mistakes humanity make, over and over, what a shame huh.

See how many people hate or reject some parent figures... and still act like them? oh it takes time. "oh not me" we say, well it takes time to cut the cord, the imitation, the super ego, the whatever name your favorite style calls it. In many ways it's about becoming aware of not being like our parents (parent figures).

The best doctors hear, listen, ask questions and then talk. Eager to give advice? I don't think that's a good sign, most people willing to give advice without hours of listening actually talk crap. Some things are easy to spot, yes, but just like in medicine... a lot of illnesses share the same symptoms, so it takes time and experience (but mostly maturity) to spot the difference and avoid confusing one thing with the other.

I have soooo much knowledge to share. Everything from clothing styles, psychology, pitfalls of relationships, red flags, green flags, personality theory, evolution, culture, etc.
Good for you, but the first words are about clothing style??? are we talking about relationship advice? well doesn't sound actually... like something promising.

You could even branch this out further and ask yourself "Is anyone deserving of the personal knowledge that I've accumulated"?
I've accumulated a lot of knowledge, part of it is practical, part of it is irrelevant, part... is specific to some people I know (having 10 relationships doens't exactly prepare you to 1000 diff individuals), actually we kind of become experts in some types of person. I listen and I talk, but I rarely give advice (I actually never do it).

In terms of relationships... most times it's all about asking the person telling the tale, like "so, like you said, she likes drinking, are you really sure about this?" and that's very, very practical and useful. Advice? I rarely see the situation fitting... me giving it. I'm around 40 and still a lot to learn. Most stuff I know goes about what to avoid (people to avoid). It's classical, human nature learning to save yourself from trouble.
 

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This is ironic. Why would you take relationship advice from someone who's failed a multitude of times at relationships? If anything, it's a proven track record of how horrible they are in finding the right person.

I've benefited from my personal 'philosophy'. I don't want to get into detail about my personal life, but I'm happy. Honestly, a lot of my advice you'd think is just common sense, but also coupled with other important rationale.
Yeah that was my whole point, I wouldn't take advice from those kinds of people.
 

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What's your opinion on the matter? Do people deserve relationship advice or should we just let sexual selection take care of it (Survival of the fittest)?
This ignores friends and family of course as I believe that my friends and family are valuable and are definitely worth sharing knowledge to. I'm speaking specifically about random people on the internet.
My opinion is that yes all people deserve help, as long as they're willing to take it seriously.
The problem is people just read theory, or listen to advice, vent to their therapist, or whatever else, but then they don't apply the knowledge to action.

You could even branch this out further and ask yourself "Is anyone deserving of the personal knowledge that I've accumulated"?
This is just a matter of personal patience, and I don't have much of it.
I don't think of people in terms of deserving or undeserving, I think of my own energy levels and whether giving them my energy is likely to be productive or not.
I have limited energy for people, so whenever someone asks me for advice, I will share my opinion on their situation and what I think they should do, but it's their choice to take it or leave it. If they take it, fantastic, it makes me see that my limited energy was well spent. If they continually complain and ask me for help but never do anything action-wise, I will cut off the faucet because my stream of energy/help needs to be saved for productive people.
This is entirely a personal approach, obvsly, and I don't believe that there are specific rules that all "helpers" should follow. Everyone can choose how and when to spend their energy.

If someone has a ton of patience and energy to dedicate to people who don't follow through with action, then these people can make the choice to continue to deliver endlessly. I think of therapists, doctors and teachers as perfect examples of people who constantly get asked for help but they encounter mostly patients/students with a lot of resistance to do anything productive with the knowledge.

What I think is... what's the word... annoying, for lack of a better word, is unsolicited advice. When someone gives unsolicited advice, they can't get mad if the other person doesn't take it.

Also, I wouldn't assume that my advice will work for everyone on the planet, as I believe that everyone is an individual with individual circumstances and dealing with individual Significant Others. I call it "sharing my two cents/experience", because all we can do is just share what we believe (and yeah the reason we believe in it is because we tested it and it worked).
Likewise, whenever I ask someone for advice, I don't assume that I will no-doubt succeed following their strategy. But if I'm asking, it's because I intend to apply it in my life with actions, and see if it works better than what I was doing before.
 

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Some humanoids, not all, but then again, so what? -- I do not much care if they are "accepting my advice / convinced,". I simply fancy running my mouth + hearing myself talk someimes. Like a lecturer in her hall, most days. I would not mind being a professor in an area I enjoyed, if not set in stone, elsewhere. Not always. I rarely go around advising / lecturing random specimens; and at most, my advice is merely common-sensism, patternized, intuitive, and they themselves have the (intellectual capacity) to go about it anyway they choose, on their own - since most specimen(s) do not respond well to "strong rationale", factual-talk, and impersonal solution making (re: reduction of complex psychological state-of-affairs, to restrictive "fact"-talk & some scientific analysis/hypothesis) not due to mere stupidity/stubbornness - but because this is usually psychologically complex human issue - not 'formally/scientifically' defective problem, it is just when the opportunity rises, I do so.

Lucy does not listen in my lecture; whatever. I am not Lucy's parental figure; hell, we are likely not so far in age. She will simply receive a low-grade; although it is always nice to see Lucy applying herself &, what she has learned in my class -- it is not necessary for me to teach; and I do not generally teach without a paycheck (direct summoning from the advisee). Assuming Lucy is some (dependent-agent - without a separative self-agency) from myself, is simply pretentiousness, borderline immoral in some regards.

The "advice," I take/accept directly regarding situations/conflicts within my personal relationships from other specimen(s) is limited, and certainly not over the de-personalized internet. Most of it is nothing new; or unique - or out of my range of common sense, or easily accessible at my own discretion - which tells me my "situation," is often more complex; than any digitalized-paragraph of advice via non-professionals could offer.
 

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I give it freely, for I am wise and an INFJ
The rule is: never give advice unless it is asked for.
people generally know what they want to do.
When they ask for advice they are looking for an alternative view to their own so they can conclude that their own way is the best.
So giving advice is cool
do watch out for the “yes but” game
 

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Given you only have control over yourself.

Everyone is entitled to give advice. You have the option to listen or debate or comment or ignore said "advice".

I have no problem with people entitling themselves into giving unsolicited fixes. I'm guilty of doing it as well.

I ask for advice when I know what to do about something but need a refresher which way I'm about to take.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
People who can't do the right choice by themselves aren't happier when you choose for them. The last stage of education is to educate oneself. There are things humans can't learn if they didn't by the age of 20. Or even by the age of 10. If you can't learn from your own mistakes, how can you even learn from others'.
How do you teach people to teach themselves?
@entheos
That's an interesting way of looking at it. How do you judge if someone is worth the energy before you even decide to give the advice.
 

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@entheos
That's an interesting way of looking at it. How do you judge if someone is worth the energy before you even decide to give the advice.
Step 1. Identify this person --> Have I adviced them before? and if so, how many times? And did they take my advice into account in any shape or form, meaning was I ever helpful to them in the past? If I wasn't helpful (either because they dismissed my advice or because my advice truly sucked), then I won't bother. If I was helpful in some way, step 2.

Step 2. Check in with my inner realm: Do I have the energy necessary to dedicate to them right now?

If I never adviced this person before, step 1 doesn't apply, and so it becomes just about Do I have the energy for this? I don't think of whether they are deserving of my energy, I just check in and see if I think I can give of myself in the way that I think is appropriate.
Since I don't know the person, I can't judge what they will do with the information I give. I will only know after I give it and observe what they do with it.

I don't expect the person to follow my advice to a t, I just want to know that I was helpful to a certain degree and that I didn't exhaust myself for nothing.
 
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How do you teach people to teach themselves?
@entheos
That's an interesting way of looking at it. How do you judge if someone is worth the energy before you even decide to give the advice.
Two things to considerate.

- When people ask a question they figured out by themselves, they're ready to start processing the answer.

- When people cannot anticipate the possible development of the answer, they aren't ready to keep processing it and will misunderstand the rest (and overestimate their understanding).

I'll open a can of worms now. In the end, solutions are for the strict benefit of those who can figure out the issues. Not the others. And it's the whole point of not keeping them for oneself, in fact. Right now we're 7.5 billions of fools who destroy everything they need to survive, so we might be nice and cute and all, but it's not time to pamper the fools. To keep the solutions for oneself. It's time to make all solutions an environment in which the survivors will be those who can process them all. It might not be you, it might not be me, but it's part of the way to become the survivor. Of course, almost everyone thinks they're part of the solution, and it's the beauty of it, because they expose themselves to the solutions anyways. They bite off more than they can chew.

tldr when you expose a solution, you won't necessarily help the one who asks for it, but you will necessarily help those who can figure out the issue to get rid of those who perpetuate it.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Two things to considerate.

- When people ask a question they figured out by themselves, they're ready to start processing the answer.

- When people cannot anticipate the possible development of the answer, they aren't ready to keep processing it and will misunderstand the rest (and overestimate their understanding).

I'll open a can of worms now. In the end, solutions are for the strict benefit of those who can figure out the issues. Not the others. And it's the whole point of not keeping them for oneself, in fact. Right now we're 7.5 billions of fools who destroy everything they need to survive, so we might be nice and cute and all, but it's not time to pamper the fools. To keep the solutions for oneself. It's time to make all solutions an environment in which the survivors will be those who can process them all. It might not be you, it might not be me, but it's part of the way to become the survivor. Of course, almost everyone thinks they're part of the solution, and it's the beauty of it, because they expose themselves to the solutions anyways. They bite off more than they can chew.

tldr when you expose a solution, you won't necessarily help the one who asks for it, but you will necessarily help those who can figure out the issue to get rid of those who perpetuate it.
Ah, I see. That makes sense.
 

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I find happiness in giving advice, because I like the challenge of working through another person’s problems for the best solution, and knowing that I have possibly helped someone by giving them an alternate perspective to consider. I can also learn from other people’s problems by being open to talking about their problems.

Questions of whether someone is worthy of advice doesn’t matter to me most of the time. Especially with random strangers on the internet. It is arrogant to assume a stranger is not worthy of advice because you do not know them. They could be a potential whatever you consider as a friend or smart person.

The only times I’d choose to not give someone advice is if they are using me as a crutch for their lives. That’s too much responsibility for me, and I would be nervous with that kind of power because I know I’m fallible. Even if they were to do the same for me, I don’t like depending on people that much to make decisions and plans for me.

As for suvival of the fittest, we’re all stuck competing against each other. Magic advice isn’t going to save anyone from that. Even with advice, we are still competing for our place in the world and what we want.
 

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Worth is in the eye of the beholder. What makes your friends and family more valuable than random people you know nothing about? Because you feel they will value your advice more and/or because you care about them? If it's the latter, then either learn to care about more people that extends beyond just your friends and family or simply don't make the investment of giving your advice. That's your choice. Chances are, if you don't give advice, the next person will because this is the internet we are talking about where there are no shortage of people. More importantly, what makes all the knowledge you have gathered so much more valuable than the next person's? There will always be things that you have missed and another person hasn't because you are one person and therefore, your capacity is limited. I personally don't believe I am well suited to give just anyone advice nor am I good at giving every type of advice. Once again, I'm one person. I have only read and experienced so much. If I'm not a good fit for someone or my style doesn't jive with them, I can accept that and move on with my life.

We have zero control over what someone chooses to do with what we give (friends and family included) so it might be worth learning how to give with no expectations of receiving something for your efforts. There can be joy and beauty in just freely giving something because you choose to have faith in another human being. But this requires that you at least some what care about people (in general) to begin with. I don't see what the purpose of giving advice would be if you don't actually care about people other than self-indulgence (the person just enjoys hearing their own opinions).

I don't think everyone is simply looking for validation when seeking advice. From my observation, some people are at their wits end and truly want help. Some of them will even take what you say at face value (for better or worse) which is why I think it's important to carefully measure what you say before you say it. Because even if the person in question doesn't listen or value what you have to say, once again - this is the internet. There are lurkers that will see what you say and countless others who you might influence (for better or worse) and you will never know anything about it. I don't know about you, but that makes me feel responsible. I see it like planting seeds. Even if nothing seems to come from it on the surface, maybe it will years down the road. It's yet another unknown and something I have no control over.

If I choose to help someone online, I make sure it's because I genuinely care. I try to truly listen and not just take what they say out of context or be judgmental. I feel like too much of that is already on the internet. I would rather someone feel supported and not alone at least for the short amount of time they choose to read my post, PM etc.
 

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If they're willing to listen and will try your advice out. Someone that doesn't look for shortcuts or for others to affirm their preconceived notions. I hate when people want to know how to lose weight. You tell them to exercise and they just argue with you and make excuses not to. Also if they keep making the same mistakes. I can't fucking help you if you just keep repeating what got you into this in the first place.
 
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