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SPs in general can be hurtful when they're neglectful of their personal relationships or of other peoples' feelings. I've never had a problem with ESTPs being hurtful unless they were deliberately trying to do so or in some instances being passive-aggressively hurtful.

Otherwise I don't really have a problem with the vast majority of ESTPs I've met. (y)
 

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Discussion Starter #42
You seem like a young nieve person that wants to live in a lovely dovey utopia. Maybe read about the siege of Leningrad. That's what happens when utopian visionaries get to run a country.
I am sorry but what's with that particular example?
Isn't the purpose in war to defeat(kill) your enemy?
 

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Discussion Starter #43
You seem to be the one lacking empathy in this thread. You sound like a little kid who's whining. You also sound kind of unstable. Maybe you should try appreciating other's strengths, see from their perspective, &/or take their thoughts & feelings into account instead of wallowing in your self righteous & hurt feelings.

I'm not doubting or discrediting your experiences btw but that's just how you perceived the events (not necessarily that person's intention), & there's no reason to take out your anger with people irl on an online community. If you don't get along with someone, don't interact with them.

Btw if you don't like capitalism, try living in one of the communist countries where you pay $200 for food that's super cheap in America like eggs because inflation's so high & people are literally eating out of garbage cans. Try that out for a month, then maybe you'll be more grateful for the life you have.
My problem is with ESTPs, yes I am generalizing. Oh I have accounted for others perspective a lot and that's why perhaps I have become unstable.

When I say there are issues with capitalism it doesn't mean the opposite is pure gold.

My issue is with the insensitivity and lack of patience of ESTPs and them being ignorant about this (and hence affecting the society in a bad way). I envy their strengths as well.
 

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Double post
 

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My problem is with ESTPs, yes I am generalizing. Oh I have accounted for others perspective a lot and that's why perhaps I have become unstable.

When I say there are issues with capitalism it doesn't mean the opposite is pure gold.

My issue is with the insensitivity and lack of patience of ESTPs and them being ignorant about this (and hence affecting the society in a bad way). I envy their strengths as well.
Try not to think in such black & white terms. No person or type or idea is all "bad" or "good". It seems like your line of thinking is just ESTP=bad. At least you realize that you're generalizing. I honestly think that type matters less than the person themselves & how they apply or work on their strengths & weaknesses.

I think it depends on how you define insensitivity. Thinking types in general can be more blunt & straightforward. If an ESTP criticizes though, I've heard it's usually meant to be constructive to point out something to improve on & make you stronger/better.

ESTPs probably aren't the type to be like "Oh I know exactly how you feel. The same thing just happened to me last week.." But they have Fe in their stack, so they can be very outwardly considerate, generous, helpful, & bring an upbeat lively attitude to a group. Any type can be selfless or self serving.

Lack of patience I think can be good in certain circumstances. Se doms, when they want to, can be incredibly good at getting things done & getting them done fast. If they're motivated at a job, you can give them 10 tasks that need to be done & they'll knock em out no problem. Also, for people looking for some fun/adventure, they're just the person to go to.
 

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Nope, I decided to do here. To let you guys know.
And grow a seed of empathy.
The world is coming into ruins because of people like you. (Hurtful people)
Only if you knew where to spend your given gift of energy towards but no, you are impatient, success driven, shallow af.
Oooooooooooooo I do love a good troll. By that I mean ~ you suck. Take some notes from JennahH ~whatever their name is. At least, they are funny. ❄
 

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It's unfair to judge people for what they're typed as, rather than what they do. You can't judge them for a label. To be completely honest, some of the worst people I've known have been ESTPs, and maybe INFPs and ESTPs don't see eye-to-eye sometimes. But regardless of people's thinking patterns, there are good people with of any type. Joe Rogan is about the most clearcut ESTP imaginable, and he's a very good person. He's kind, open-minded, honest, and straightforward. And to be honest, the worst, most abusive boss I ever had was a fellow INFP - he was very unhappy, so he would take his unhappiness out on others by belittling and basically bullying his employees. He was as disgusting and pathetic as anyone I've known, someone I never want to be like, so it's unfortunate that we have the same MBTI, because other than that he and I are nothing alike.

Maybe unhealthy ESTPs can do damage by caring little about the pain they cause, but that isn't a defining characteristic of the type. As E's, they're people persons. As S's, they're honest, straightforward, and clear-minded. As T's, they're logical and practical. As P's, they're openminded. Those are all great qualities.

They're people like Epicurus (one of my favorite philosophers), Franklin D. Roosevelt, Bruce Lee, and Dwayne Johnson, and they're great characters like Aldo Raine from Inglourious Basterds, Sirius Black, Elektra, Han Solo, Mugen from Samurai Champloo, Korra, Lyra from His Dark Materials, Catwoman, and Green Arrow (note: got these from digging through Personality-Database).

What matters is qualities like kindness and integrity, not a person's personality type.
 

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Rude?
For sharing my thoughts and experience?
Your empathy isn't good.
Have fun having shallow relationships in your life.
Interesting, this is how I typically describe EXTJs. Sure you're not mistyping them?
 

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It's unfair to judge people for what they're typed as, rather than what they do. You can't judge them for a label. To be completely honest, some of the worst people I've known have been ESTPs, and maybe INFPs and ESTPs don't see eye-to-eye sometimes. But regardless of people's thinking patterns, there are good people with of any type. Joe Rogan is about the most clearcut ESTP imaginable, and he's a very good person. He's kind, open-minded, honest, and straightforward. And to be honest, the worst, most abusive boss I ever had was a fellow INFP - he was very unhappy, so he would take his unhappiness out on others by belittling and basically bullying his employees. He was as disgusting and pathetic as anyone I've known, someone I never want to be like, so it's unfortunate that we have the same MBTI, because other than that he and I are nothing alike.

Maybe unhealthy ESTPs can do damage by caring little about the pain they cause, but that isn't a defining characteristic of the type. As E's, they're people persons. As S's, they're honest, straightforward, and clear-minded. As T's, they're logical and practical. As P's, they're openminded. Those are all great qualities.

They're people like Epicurus (one of my favorite philosophers), Franklin D. Roosevelt, Bruce Lee, and Dwayne Johnson, and they're great characters like Aldo Raine from Inglourious Basterds, Sirius Black, Elektra, Han Solo, Mugen from Samurai Champloo, Korra, Lyra from His Dark Materials, Catwoman, and Green Arrow (note: got these from digging through Personality-Database).

What matters is qualities like kindness and integrity, not a person's personality type.

I think generally speaking ESTP's default setting is chaotic neutral. We're individualist's and impulsive. Somewhere along the line, ESTP's either stay on the same path, shift to chaotic evil or shift to chaotic good. Other people can be so confident about what's right and wrong and they come to that conclusion so quickly and I'm pretty sure most find justifications to fit their belief. I can impulsive about a lot of things, but ethics and morals are probably where I'm least impulsive.

Ask me what what I want for dinner and you'll get a fast, decisive answer. Ask me about the death penalty and... I've thought about it a lot and I still have thoughts about the topic, but I've never come to a satisfactory conclusion. I don't know what is the right thing to do with people who've committed especially heinous acts. My silence on some topics and sometimes my actions give people the impression that I haven't thought about it. Often I've spent a lot of time thinking about it and I haven't resolved the question. Those times when I'm silent and people just assume I haven't thought about it are inconsequential. Those times when an action is required of me and I don't have an answer, will always anger people. Because I've taken an action and I don't have a justification because I didn't resolve the question. Sometimes I roll with what I have. This assumption that if I don't justify my actions means I haven't given it adequate thought strike me as unfair. I might make a throw away comment to shut them up, but I can think about an ethical question for years and not have an answer.
It seems like other people take too much time answer the easy questions:
What do you want for dinner?
We now need to wait an eternity for them to answer an unimportant question.
But they take a split second to answer the difficult questions:
Is the death penalty ethical?
Bam! They can answer that question lightning fast and they're so damn confident they're right and anyone who doesn't agree is wrong. I don't understand why it's so hard to figure out what to eat for dinner but so easy for them to decide what is right and wrong.

I get that the ESTP way of thinking rubs some people the wrong way but I'm under no obligation to explain myself. I don't make accusations and demand other people explain themselves just because they made a decision that I didn't like. Some people need to ctfo. They have all the answers to everything and are near Godlike status, good for them. Some of us still have our feet on the ground and are still figuring it out.
 

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I think generally speaking ESTP's default setting is chaotic neutral. We're individualist's and impulsive. Somewhere along the line, ESTP's either stay on the same path, shift to chaotic evil or shift to chaotic good. Other people can be so confident about what's right and wrong and they come to that conclusion so quickly and I'm pretty sure most find justifications to fit their belief. I can impulsive about a lot of things, but ethics and morals are probably where I'm least impulsive.

Ask me what what I want for dinner and you'll get a fast, decisive answer. Ask me about the death penalty and... I've thought about it a lot and I still have thoughts about the topic, but I've never come to a satisfactory conclusion. I don't know what is the right thing to do with people who've committed especially heinous acts. My silence on some topics and sometimes my actions give people the impression that I haven't thought about it. Often I've spent a lot of time thinking about it and I haven't resolved the question. Those times when I'm silent and people just assume I haven't thought about it are inconsequential. Those times when an action is required of me and I don't have an answer, will always anger people. Because I've taken an action and I don't have a justification because I didn't resolve the question. Sometimes I roll with what I have. This assumption that if I don't justify my actions means I haven't given it adequate thought strike me as unfair. I might make a throw away comment to shut them up, but I can think about an ethical question for years and not have an answer.
It seems like other people take too much time answer the easy questions:
What do you want for dinner?
We now need to wait an eternity for them to answer an unimportant question.
But they take a split second to answer the difficult questions:
Is the death penalty ethical?
Bam! They can answer that question lightning fast and they're so damn confident they're right and anyone who doesn't agree is wrong. I don't understand why it's so hard to figure out what to eat for dinner but so easy for them to decide what is right and wrong.

I get that the ESTP way of thinking rubs some people the wrong way but I'm under no obligation to explain myself. I don't make accusations and demand other people explain themselves just because they made a decision that I didn't like. Some people need to ctfo. They have all the answers to everything and are near Godlike status, good for them. Some of us still have our feet on the ground and are still figuring it out.
That's all fair, and I'm not criticizing you. My post is meant as a defense of ESTPs.
With the ESTPs I've had negative interactions with, the issue isn't related to what you're describing. It has more to do with personal attacks, put-downs, and being inconsiderate. Again, I don't think issues like that reflect on the type in general; it's just that I've noticed that ESTPs to show up with some frequency, with people I've had negative interactions with. But there are also ESTPs I'm fond of, so it's neither here nor there, so to speak.

One person I'm thinking of would slip in little jabs and nasty put downs, but he'd always say them in a joking manner. Only, it wasn't a situation where people were giving each other a hard time. It was almost like a status thing - he wanted to feel cool and powerful, which he did by putting people down. It was childish.

The other example was a girl who would insult people constantly and talk behind everyone's backs. This was clearly a product of her insecurity - she wasn't insightful or hardworking, and she wasn't well-liked because she was so rude, so she would talk about how other people "sucked," how they were stupid, etc. She was projecting.

These are probably two examples of very unhealthy ESTPs, or just unhealthy people in general. But those are a couple solid examples. Don't take this as a criticism of you - above I described a very awful INFP I knew, who I disliked just as much as those two.
 

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That's all fair, and I'm not criticizing you. My post is meant as a defense of ESTPs.
With the ESTPs I've had negative interactions with, the issue isn't related to what you're describing. It has more to do with personal attacks, put-downs, and being inconsiderate. Again, I don't think issues like that reflect on the type in general; it's just that I've noticed that ESTPs to show up with some frequency, with people I've had negative interactions with. But there are also ESTPs I'm fond of, so it's neither here nor there, so to speak.

One person I'm thinking of would slip in little jabs and nasty put downs, but he'd always say them in a joking manner. Only, it wasn't a situation where people were giving each other a hard time. It was almost like a status thing - he wanted to feel cool and powerful, which he did by putting people down. It was childish.

The other example was a girl who would insult people constantly and talk behind everyone's backs. This was clearly a product of her insecurity - she wasn't insightful or hardworking, and she wasn't well-liked because she was so rude, so she would talk about how other people "sucked," how they were stupid, etc. She was projecting.

These are probably two examples of very unhealthy ESTPs, or just unhealthy people in general. But those are a couple solid examples. Don't take this as a criticism of you - above I described a very awful INFP I knew, who I disliked just as much as those two.
I don't understand how people know so many ESTP's? We're around 3-5% of the population.




Male ESTP outnumber female 2:1. Where are all of these ESTP's coming from? I've known one from school and after burning down a shed our teacher separated us and we didn't work together again.
 

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I don't understand how people know so many ESTP's? We're around 3-5% of the population.
If 5% of people are ESTPs, then that means 1 in every 20 people I know is an ESTP. Over a lifetime, that's a lot of people. I gave you two examples of people I know who were ESTPs, who I had negative experiences with. I'm sure there are more ESTPs I've had positive experiences with, and even more I feel completely neutral about. Of the two ESTPs I described, one I knew 11 years ago, the other I knew 5 years ago. But way to dodge the point of the post.
 

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If 5% of people are ESTPs, then that means 1 in every 20 people I know is an ESTP. Over a lifetime, that's a lot of people. I gave you two examples of people I know who were ESTPs, who I had negative experiences with. I'm sure there are more ESTPs I've had positive experiences with, and even more I feel completely neutral about. Of the two ESTPs I described, one I knew 11 years ago, the other I knew 5 years ago. But way to dodge the point of the post.
I didn't dodge it. I had nothing else to contribute.
 

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@pessimistic kid
whats your type? "pessimistic kid" isnt a title that ESTP's want to get along with - so right off the bat it seems there are difficulties.
is it the ESTP's job to not hurt your feelings? if your answer is yes, seek help professionally.
the emotional wounds you have are your problem to solve internally... ESTP's only provide the salt... if there was no wound - there would be no pain.

i think you'd be well off to heed advice from others , instead of taking it as pain/hurt and rejecting it - use it to grow. ESTP's want the world to be stronger and will thusly tell you all your problems regardless of how you feel about it.

let it be known - ESTP's do have a great deal of empathy , but not enough to coddle adults. seek an ESFJ if you want a codependent to pamper you. it seems you want to be babied and this is simply not reasonable in an adult world.

im getting an impression you might be an INFP/ish and enneagram type 4?

this combination is most likely going to conflict with ESTP's ... and there simply isnt much you can do about it, imo.
 

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Nope, I decided to do here. To let you guys know.
And grow a seed of empathy.
The world is coming into ruins because of people like you. (Hurtful people)
Only if you knew where to spend your given gift of energy towards but no, you are impatient, success driven, shallow af.
its you who have no empathy, quite obviously... my hunch is you have Fi and are selfishly demanding others cater to your subjective emotional whims.

from my perspective - the world is coming into ruins because of people like you (people who refuse to mature, extreme idealist infant self idealized victims who destroy rather than create/grow)
 

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Discussion Starter #57
its you who have no empathy, quite obviously... my hunch is you have Fi and are selfishly demanding others cater to your subjective emotional whims.

from my perspective - the world is coming into ruins because of people like you (people who refuse to mature, extreme idealist infant self idealized victims who destroy rather than create/grow)
Yes I am an INFP and hence Fi.
Sorry I don't demand anything from anyone. I haven't even left my room for days.
What did I destroy? Do you mean everything around me? Oh yes, due to my imperfect skills. I refuse to grow into a corrupt individual. Thinking of leaving this place.
 

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Yes I am an INFP and hence Fi.
Sorry I don't demand anything from anyone. I haven't even left my room for days.
What did I destroy? Do you mean everything around me? Oh yes, due to my imperfect skills. I refuse to grow into a corrupt individual. Thinking of leaving this place.
anyway, i wouldnt concern yourself with relationships with ESTP's. we are in conflicting quadrants and INFP-ESTP is the most 'conflict' relationship. theres almost nothing which can be done to improve this in my experience.

not worth ending life over, just gotta find your own tribe. try the INFP, ESTJ, ISTJ, ENFP quadrant for the most compatible communications.
 

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Yes I am an INFP and hence Fi.
Sorry I don't demand anything from anyone. I haven't even left my room for days.
What did I destroy? Do you mean everything around me? Oh yes, due to my imperfect skills. I refuse to grow into a corrupt individual. Thinking of leaving this place.
Gaining skills isn't becoming corrupt. You want to bring change, you'll need to learn how to be persuasive which starts with learning how to communicate with people who don't think like you. ESTP are the doers, we get shit done. You want us to make a change, you need to be a lot more specific and targeted. Jumping in with vitriol convinces us that you're an asshole but won't result in getting anything done.

Leaving PerC or the world? I assume PerC but on the off chance you mean something more serious, this is not the place to be chilling. I'd link a hotline for you but I don't know what country you're in.
 
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