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Discussion Starter #1
I've been thinking what's the point if a person has all the reason and wisdom a person can possibly possess, but has no light, compassion or want for peace in the heart?

Some INFP's here really shine their light to me through their kind, tolerant nature. I think that is an authentic, beautiful thing that cannot be tainted easily.

I'm not saying we should be doormats, we have to stand up for ourselves when we need to. At the same time I think it is a good thing when we do small things just to contribute to more positive, generous energy and peace.

I just mean that kindness and peace are two beautiful things in this world and are often unfortunately overlooked. Many things in this world are overrated, but not love, kindness and peace.
 

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Unfortunately I think that much of the world thinks that love, kindness & peace doesn't win wars or money so they don't value it. That's sad. I truly hope I'm wrong about this.
 

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You have a point, I think people just put self interests over kindness and peace. They don't know how kindness and peace can heal the heart, I think.

However, I've learnt not to be TOO kind. I want to be strong and not have people step over me/abuse me at the same time.

Sorry if I don't make sense, I do value kindness and peace, and I also value inner strength.
 

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I find that western individualism and greed are too closely linked, like something got misunderstood along the way. People started confusing the two and everything got out of hand. I see people all the time just pass by women with strollers trying to get them up the stairs after taking the subway; nobody offers a hand. It really doesn't take that much time out of your day, and it will light up the person's you're helping.

There's too much hustle and bustle around these days, it's hard not to get caught up in it. But going back to individualism and greed, since I went on a tangent: so many things in our society are about making a lot of money, getting a good job, education, what have you. It's totally egocentric. While I think that's a good thing, in a way, to take care of yourself and put yourself up real high on your priority list, you can't ignore the fact that you're a human being like everybody else, and we all deserve some more kindness and a helping hand.

It reminds me of the quote, "Be kind to everyone you meet, for we're all fighting a hard battle."
 

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Unfortunately I think that much of the world thinks that love, kindness & peace doesn't win wars or money so they don't value it. That's sad. I truly hope I'm wrong about this.
What the world fails to realize is that love, kindness and peace can prevent the need for wars and money altogether.

It's really a shame.
 

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It's funny, because on the whole I'm somewhat of a cynic and a pessimist; I think life is terribly hard and sad a lot of times, and for me to trust somebody it takes about 800 years, but I can honestly say that I do believe most people have good intentions. I see general acts of kindness all the time. I don't do them myself as much as I'd like, mostly because I'm such a socially awkward and scared person, or something... I don't know, I'm really working on this... but anyway, behoopd said about a woman carrying a stroller up the subway stairs. I see people helping these women ALL THE TIME. I really do.

The people who rule the world, so to speak, are not the kinds of people I'm talking about. But let's keep in mind, these kinds of people are not the majority of the people. The majority of the people are regular old Joes, living in regular old homes and have nice and regular kids and nice and regular jobs. These are the kinds of people that make up the bulk of people. And while they all have their problems and they all have their mean streaks and evil sides, I truly doubt they thrive on these aspects of themselves.

Me, for example. I have a terrible temper at times, I'm too honest a lot of times, I have debilitating anxiety, I get irritated too easily and annoyed too easily and I've said and done a lot of things I wish I hadn't. I do and have all of these things, but I hate every single one of them. And I KNOW I have good intentions. I do not want to hurt anybody or anything, ever. Does this mean that I don't hurt them? Not always. I'm human. But I never, ever WANT to hurt them. Who truly wants to hurt people? I mean, who TRULY wants to hurt people?
 

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But I never, ever WANT to hurt them. Who truly wants to hurt people? I mean, who TRULY wants to hurt people?
From what I've seen and understood.

The more I think of this, the more I see it as differing values, values that to me make little sense.

It's not a question of wanting to hurt others, but more a different perspective. There are people who will walk past a person with a leginjury because they value their time higher, there are people who won't give a fuck if they ruin someones life, because they earn from it, which means more time/money/power to themselves.

Time is money friend, and a lot of people value money high, which means there is less time to cultivate the more humane sides of us.

To be honest though, not all are like that, but way way to many..

Myself, I value time highly, but I give it freely if I feel it's for a good reason, money I just see as a resource, and if it can give me something I want, then it's all good, power is something I tend to avoid, since I'm not to fond of responsibility (Then again, there are some that skip the responsibility part and just abuse it for personal gain).

I usually just feel sad for those that constantly run on the hamsterwheel, and think they can't afford to lean back and observe for awhile.
 

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In my experience, the average person isn't so bad. It's the ones in power that cause so much heartache. Kindness and compassion are beautiful qualities that if embraced would put an end to many problems. Unfortunately, both things rely on one fact that some just cannot accept: Kindness and compassion are GIVING of yourself to others, and there is no guarantee that you will receive anything in return. In a society where personal gain is of utmost importance, whatever benefits the self is the usual course. They often try to hide their true motivations behind a veil of good intentions, but in the end, it is usually self serving. This is apparent to any that follow political news. It's sad that those seeking leadership and power are the last ones you would ever want to put in such positions, yet they are the ones that inevitably receive them.
 

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It's definitely true that there are some people out there with messed up values. I guess I either am lucky not to truly know any, or at least not to let any of them into my life.

Or it could be that I am just way way less offended by things than are some other people. Which I know is true from certain personal experiences. Actually, one reason I had a hard time dealing with the INFPness is because one of the prime characteristics of INFPs, from what I've read, is a strong values system. I do have values, but I'm generally very accepting of others' that I feel mine aren't "strong". I know that everyone's values are so different that I don't bother to get too worked over most things. I usually just accept it, ya know?

I suppose I just more or less disagree with the title question. I've very rarely witnessed in real life people who regard kindness and goodness and peace as unimportant, and if I did, it would only be for a short period of time, such as in an argument or what have you. I know there are some jerks out there. But I have and I've always had this feeling like they're just misled, and not truly bad-intentioned. I feel like they go home and feel bad, I feel like they're very lonely, I feel like there is some sort of underlying reason for them to be selfish and money-hungry. I guess I just think that most children are so beautiful and fantastic that THAT is the basis of who we are. It's what some people go through as children and teenagers that makes them a little scary as adults. I know this isn't really the argument, but I do believe that those people who, as adults, disregard those good things, are scarred in one way or another, and they don't need to be scrutinized but they need to be helped. It could be a naive opinion, but I've had plenty and plenty of people experience and I guess this is the conclusion I've come to thus far.
 

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I feel mine aren't "strong". I know that everyone's values are so different that I don't bother to get too worked over most things. I usually just accept it, ya know?
Values are values, they aren't rules per se. Some are more ingrained than others. About accepting others values, well of course. There will be conflicts however, that's just nature doing it's work, I have a hard time seeing you let a child get abused, just because you 'respect someone elses values' who think it's okay. (Thanks for giving me some brain food btw) Harsh example, but also really easy to relate to.

I know there are some jerks out there. But I have and I've always had this feeling like they're just misled, and not truly bad-intentioned. I feel like they go home and feel bad, I feel like they're very lonely, I feel like there is some sort of underlying reason for them to be selfish and money-hungry.
And then, you woke up. Jerks are jerks (May you burn somewhere, plx). I've seen a lot of women (no harm intended) Who believe they can help them, I view this as pointless. There is a reason they are what they are, true. But I sincerely doubt it's reversible (Yes I've tried, once, for a long time). You can always give guidance, but realization and change comes from within, and they don't want to change, because they profit from what they are, in the short term (and in some cases even longterm).

I guess I just think that most children are so beautiful and fantastic that THAT is the basis of who we are
This was fascinating, as far as I've seen and experienced, most children are extremely egoistic, and usually pretty unaware of what their actions do, they can learn however.

This post was not meant to offend anyone, just to get some points across (that I felt were neccesary). Sorry :x
 

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It's a dog eats dog world... In this world, you either kill, or be killed. Your choice. It's sad... But you and I can be different. You and I can be the tiny sparks of light that this world needs in desperate times. There is nothing wrong with being a good person with a lot of love and compassion in his or her heart at all. :)
 

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Because these traits are seen as being "weak".

I tell you what's weak; going to war instead of taking the -longer-, -harder-, diplomatic route. Wars, aggression, fighting etc are what we see in the animal kingdom. Peace and negotiation are manifestations of the cortex (what makes us intelligent); fighting, aggression etc are the result of emotions and hormones. NOT thinking. Peace, altruism and harmony set us apart from other animals. And what separates apes, is how they arrange their societies. More harmonious apes are considered to be more advanced than the aggressive, war stricken ones. They are seen as more advanced, because they foster a more efficient, egalitarian society that increases well being.
Unfortunately up until this point, aggression and dominance have claimed monopoly on power and authority, but there are those in history who have made immense changes by going down the diplomatic route. And many of these people have become icons. I think those who are gentle and diplomatic need to bite the bullet and take a stab at getting into positions of power and maybe we will see some further societal changes.

Anyone whose been in a fight knows that it's much easier to yell, insult and curse. What requires more critical thinking, is resolving the issue. It involves stepping out of your ego for 2 minutes and actually acknowledging what the other person is saying because you can appreciate that maybe you are wrong. Maybe they have a point? People think considering other opinions and not being so stringent with what you think is weak. But that is the only way you ever resolve anything. Compromise, coming to the table with an open mind and acknowledging others is the only way to foster progress. You see it in effective business, politics and all forms of diplomacy, really. The reason why we become so stagnant is because we put things that require diplomacy, and such into the "too hard" basket. The way we progress is through negotiation, peace and empathy. And it requires hard work and stepping outside the ego (which is hard for all of us).

But I totally agree with you Izzie.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Because these traits are seen as being "weak".

I tell you what's weak; going to war instead of taking the -longer-, -harder-, diplomatic route. Wars, aggression, fighting etc are what we see in the animal kingdom. Peace and negotiation are manifestations of the cortex (what makes us intelligent); fighting, aggression etc are the result of emotions and hormones. NOT thinking. Peace, altruism and harmony set us apart from other animals. And what separates apes, is how they arrange their societies. More harmonious apes are considered to be more advanced than the aggressive, war stricken ones. They are seen as more advanced, because they foster a more efficient, egalitarian society that increases well being.
Unfortunately up until this point, aggression and dominance have claimed monopoly on power and authority, but there are those in history who have made immense changes by going down the diplomatic route. And many of these people have become icons. I think those who are gentle and diplomatic need to bite the bullet and take a stab at getting into positions of power and maybe we will see some further societal changes.

Anyone whose been in a fight knows that it's much easier to yell, insult and curse. What requires more critical thinking, is resolving the issue. It involves stepping out of your ego for 2 minutes and actually acknowledging what the other person is saying because you can appreciate that maybe you are wrong. Maybe they have a point? People think considering other opinions and not being so stringent with what you think is weak. But that is the only way you ever resolve anything. Compromise, coming to the table with an open mind and acknowledging others is the only way to foster progress. You see it in effective business, politics and all forms of diplomacy, really. The reason why we become so stagnant is because we put things that require diplomacy, and such into the "too hard" basket. The way we progress is through negotiation, peace and empathy. And it requires hard work and stepping outside the ego (which is hard for all of us).

But I totally agree with you Izzie.

Exactly. It takes intelligence and critical thinking as well to realize how important peace can be.

And it can also come from a very spiritual place in our hearts.

It is so not a matter of delusional emotional appeal, as some people might believe :dry: *Sick of the stereotype that INFP's might be nothing but over emotional*
 

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Discussion Starter #14
People think considering other opinions and not being so stringent with what you think is weak. But that is the only way you ever resolve anything. Compromise, coming to the table with an open mind and acknowledging others is the only way to foster progress..

You mirror my political mind. Thank you Nova :happy:
 

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The values of society as seen from the outside are mostly determined by those who are most visible to all. People like politicians, captains of industry, famous artists, journalists.

But in order to reach a position of power you need to possess a certain mindset(excepting artists I suppose). That mindset seems to correlate in reverse with the attributes of love and compassion.
Its one of those funny quirks of evolution. Its like that crazy tail of a peacock that evolution has given him but that must undoubtedly be a liability when he is chased by a predator. Yet, it evolved nonetheless.

I can clearly see this process at work in political parties. The people who percolate to the top are a special breed. There is two kinds, the idealists/world improvers/fighters for the cause and the ambitious ones. Normally the ambitious ones rely on their skills needed to rise fast while the idealists have to rely on their idealism to get them to the top.
The point is that ambitious people vastly outnumber idealist people. And when I see the personalities of many of those amibitious leaders I often observe a distinct lack of love and compassion for others.
Furthermore, what love and compassion there was is usually quickly unlearned in the political battlefield.

But its those leaders that present the public face of a country and it is by their actions that the nation is measured. Outsiders do not see the man in the street. They see the people in charge, who are not a representative subset of the population.
 

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There is no wisdom and reason without compassion and peace.
 
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