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You said women don't bring much to the table when sexuality is erased from the equation, what precisely did you expect me to infer from that?

Also, the cat doesn't like it when you shampoo her.

That when you shave off a woman's hair and remove beauty from the equation you basically have an androgynous sex. The point of the post was that when you take women off of the pedestal and treat them like you would as guys (read egalitarian) that the desire to spread ones wild oats disappears.

To get to this point, you have to be with a soft number of women and then you start to see similarities between them all.
 

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I mean its fun but there are more things in life then that like career supporting people etc
I know that so many people doing those things to build a nice guy image for themselves to attract sex partners. That's what happens if you are feeling deprieved of intimacy in personal level. Life is ridiculously complex because it's horribly simple. By the way, girls are esoteric creatures. If a girl is not worthy for chasing with excitement, I don't know what is.
 

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That when you shave off a woman's hair and remove beauty from the equation you basically have an androgynous sex. The point of the post was that when you take women off of the pedestal and treat them like you would as guys (read egalitarian) that the desire to spread ones wild oats disappears.

To get to this point, you have to be with a soft number of women and then you start to see similarities between them all.
God you sound like such a creep. I don't want to talk to you anymore.
 

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For me, it was probably peer pressure more than hormones that influenced my thoughts and behaviors. I never cared what the majority wanted to begin with, but I'm a lot more secure with my sexuality and relationship status now than I was in high school, which in hindsight was really just one big, stupid popularity contest.
 

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I constantly think about other men. I guess it's hormonal, but at the same time I know I put a lot of value on the messages those hormones are sending me. I guess for a long time, I was searching for something to "make it all worthwhile". People say things like, "helping people", "making the world a better place" and "money" and "just surviving" are important. In fact, some people would consider them "the point of life." I agree that they are very important. But, they also take a lot of hard work, self-assertion, management skills, self-discipline, courage and mostly don't offer much emotional satisfaction in return (at least in my self-experience). So, at the end of the day, what makes all this output worthwhile? Love and sex, in my opinion.

Money can't love you. Having a huge house and a nice car or a prestigious job are great, but even a lot of money seems pointless without *~*someone to share it with~*~*. But, "what about your family? The needy?" you might ask. "Can't you share with them and still find meaning?" Yes, they're great too, but they can't love me intimately, intensely, deeply (or, at least, I don't want them to love them that way :((( ). Also, something that I personally really take issue with is that I have found that I have actively seen others discourage others from establishing relationships with "needy people". Basically, you hear things like "don't give hand outs" and "homeless shelters just keep people homeless", or "if you really wanted to help people, you'd start a business" or "study medicine". It's hard enough for people to decide for themselves what the right thing to do is, let alone just do it and be successful at it. My point being that, political opinions aside, starting a business or becoming a doctor or some sort of professional whose concern it is to improve the systems that improves people's quality of life requires, like a mentioned, a lot of skilled, impersonal effort. It's basically the impersonal management of information or goods and often doesn't necessarily involve meaningful human interactions, especially not in a capitalist economy in which you are constantly pushed to perform more efficiently at the expense of your internal state. I'm not trying to make a excuses, but as an INFP with Te as my least preferred function, I find this cultural emphasis on systemic control instead of "undifferentiated compassion" to be completely unrewarding. So, that I or other people might put a lot my emotional attention into a seeking an intimate partner instead of just distracting myself with something like "family" or "work" or "helping people" doesn't seem like a stupid or immature or irresponsible thing at all--even though many of those people are just confusing love with sex. But, that's understandable too since "real love" can be so difficult to achieve and, frankly, a sexual drive can be very physically overwhelming on a young person's developing identity. That challenge is amplified too for people who didn't necessarily grow up with (or currently don't live in) support families or stable environments or are dealing with self-esteem issues,

And of course, I have hobbies, but I actually found that most of them are related to people, and in US culture, which is constantly trying to make push people towards material success as well as presenting "the right image", naturally, I wanted to turn my hobbies into a job skill. Which made me consider working abroad, which made me consider (more in depth, than before, at least) why exactly people work, go to war, create monetary systems, produce families small and large, farm, practice religion, create government, and more specifically, exclude other people from work, killing people in war for the surface differences, cheat others or segregate people on the basis of wealth, having vastly different perspectives on spirituality, use government to control and exploit people, and why people tend to sexually exploit each other or seemingly fear sex in the first place and try to reduce it to something that's taboo to discuss publicly...

In considering all these things, I of course, ran into questions of morality and inevitably the idea of "worth". I had to go into myself to answer my questions because the other explanations I was running into weren't satisfactory. But maybe, that's neither hear nor there...

For me, whenever I am around people with whom I have a special connection, but not a sexual relationship, the feeling of satisfaction wares off quickly. It doesn't mean they're not important, but I imagine that an intimate partner would be more satisfying because on one hand it does allow for relief of sexual tension, but on the other hand, I and probably a lot of other people are dreaming of someone who can understand and relate to and hopefully help alleviate their "problems."* Maybe this is my perspective is "too" heavily based in Introverted Feeling, but in actuality, all of physical reality is just kind of meaningless stimulus. The things that we concern ourselves with can mostly be traced back to our physical needs for nourishment and shelter. Sex and pursuing the opposite gender has its own survivalistic roots in our psychology, but beyond that, having a passionate sexual connection is way more intensely meaningful than just having material reality organized, or just "living in the moment". Like the outer world is just a bunch of stimulus, but the emotion of romantic love and intimacy make all the external stimulus meaningful and worthwhile.

So, I don't think it's weird that a lot of guys "are so after girls" or vice versa. An intimate emotional connection with a sexual partner is probably one of the most satisfying emotional experiences a human can have. So, I think it's very worthwhile to pursue sex, intimacy and love and by that extension, women (if that's what you're into). It's not shameful, and I wouldn't judge people for making notches on their bedposts for the amount of women they've slept with or for thinking a man will solve all their problems. Yes, I think it's problematic but, it's a more common human experience that comes from living in a world in which meaning and worth are inherently ambiguous.

Anyway, I guess my point is physical reality is things and interacting with things is not ultimately very gratifying without an emotional response to make it so. So, of course, sex, with its high potential for emotional gratification is quite worth pursuing. Unfortunately, people tend to confuse the act of sex for a healthy sexual relationship and try to pursue an unrealistic image of sex--that is a problem. But, at the say time, trying to devalue sex or saying that other things should be able to take the place of sex in the most people's psyche doesn't seem like a good solution to me either. Instead, let's perhaps realize that the emotion of romantic love is
 

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If we still lived in the jungle and women depended on men for their survival we would be put on a pedestal as well.
Not to start a whole gender role fight here but seriously? Let's go to the jungle shell we. Oh look a lion and a lioness. And who may be the one that is hunting and getting food? and lets not forget stronger? is it the lion... nahh I dont think so. It is the Lioness that is right. Women depended on man for survival? please. A pedastool isn't the reason men think of women or women think of men, or men think of men or women think of women. It is hormones, and infact your genes or in other words pheramones that attract people. Not how much the gender depends on the other in a jungle. Based on what you are saying you don't live in a jungle, so let's be reall, that is not the reason people are attracted to each other.
 

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What is more irritating is the sex fiends being a bunch of asshats towards those of us who just plain do not feel sexual desires and thus never even bother chasing women. The fucktards will be like "get a prostitute you need it blahblahblahbalblah." and worse. Seriously getting sick of the oversexed/overly advertised generation I belong to. Most humans are too fucking stupid to understand that if someone doesn't constantly desire/talk about sex, that there is nothing wrong with them nor are they closet homosexuals, virgins and such. Some days I swear we need to just wipe ourselves the fuck out. People just need to learn to fucking accept the fact that not everyone prioritizes nor is sexually driven and that there is nothing wrong with them.
 

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I'm a female but honestly I think Orson Wells said it best:
"If there hadn't been women we'd still be squatting in a cave eating raw meat, because we made civilization in order to impress our girlfriends."

Note how he points out it is not the cave men that impressed women, it is the innovators.
 

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Seriously all my friends everyone i met around my age so far all they can talk about is girls . Their life aim is girls and thats it . I mean its fun but there are more things in life then that like career supporting people etc
LOool, you just described my Esfp friend perfectly, he has no goals or ambitioions in life but just wants to chase girls. For instance if we switch the conversation to talking about girls, he would become exicted and enthustiac when a sec ago he was a about to fall asleep lol. Yes it's in our nature to feel attracted to your opposite sex but you know it's getting out of hand if it becomes a persons top priority.
 

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if you want to know why every girl has about a dozen guys (to understate) chasing her at any one time, it's because of the breakdown in monogamy.

Used to be, one person each.
Now, with hookups more prevalent, it's more primitive in nature.

Females have more innate sexual power, because their reproduction is more exclusive. A guy can mate with 3 or more females a day, a female can reproduce with one person every 9 months maximum. So, without social structure, there is more demand for that reproductive ability than for males'.

Hence, with the removal of monogamous societal structure, when everyone can sleep with who they want, whenever, this is what happens. Male reproductive strategy benefits from mating with as many females as possible, whereas female reproductive strategy benefits from mating more selectively. Hence, the top 10% of males in terms of attractiveness can mate with 90% of the females. No longer does every male get an opportunity to mate. Competition becomes much more fierce, because now you have to demonstrate you are better than 90% of other males to be given chance, whereas before you just had to be reasonable. Without monogamy, those top 10% of males are not removed from the market by virtue of mating with a female, they are available for all other females, if they choose. As a male, you are competing with all other males now for each and every female, not just trying to be good enough to secure someone of similar value to your own value.
 

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if you want to know why every girl has about a dozen guys (to understate) chasing her at any one time, it's because of the breakdown in monogamy.

Used to be, one person each.
Now, with hookups more prevalent, it's more primitive in nature.

Females have more innate sexual power, because their reproduction is more exclusive. A guy can mate with 3 or more females a day, a female can reproduce with one person every 9 months maximum. So, without social structure, there is more demand for that reproductive ability than for males'.

Hence, with the removal of monogamous societal structure, when everyone can sleep with who they want, whenever, this is what happens. Male reproductive strategy benefits from mating with as many females as possible, whereas female reproductive strategy benefits from mating more selectively. Hence, the top 10% of males in terms of attractiveness can mate with 90% of the females. No longer does every male get an opportunity to mate. Competition becomes much more fierce, because now you have to demonstrate you are better than 90% of other males to be given chance, whereas before you just had to be reasonable. Without monogamy, those top 10% of males are not removed from the market by virtue of mating with a female, they are available for all other females, if they choose. As a male, you are competing with all other males now for each and every female, not just trying to be good enough to secure someone of similar value to your own value.
Applause
 

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if you want to know why every girl has about a dozen guys (to understate) chasing her at any one time, it's because of the breakdown in monogamy.

Used to be, one person each.
Now, with hookups more prevalent, it's more primitive in nature.

Females have more innate sexual power, because their reproduction is more exclusive. A guy can mate with 3 or more females a day, a female can reproduce with one person every 9 months maximum. So, without social structure, there is more demand for that reproductive ability than for males'.

Hence, with the removal of monogamous societal structure, when everyone can sleep with who they want, whenever, this is what happens. Male reproductive strategy benefits from mating with as many females as possible, whereas female reproductive strategy benefits from mating more selectively. Hence, the top 10% of males in terms of attractiveness can mate with 90% of the females. No longer does every male get an opportunity to mate. Competition becomes much more fierce, because now you have to demonstrate you are better than 90% of other males to be given chance, whereas before you just had to be reasonable. Without monogamy, those top 10% of males are not removed from the market by virtue of mating with a female, they are available for all other females, if they choose. As a male, you are competing with all other males now for each and every female, not just trying to be good enough to secure someone of similar value to your own value.
You make it seem like girls get anything they want. To be honest one of the main reasons that there are guys without girls isn't just because girls are selective causing guys to have to be alpha males. It is also because in modern society the guys not only have ridiculous expectations of girls, but they also chase after a certain type. So if you view it this way not every girl have a dozen guys chasing her at a time. Because if that were true, heck every person I know would have dated someone at least once. But let's be reall some of us have been and are single.
you make it seem like in the sense that 9 out of ten girls are attracted to one guy, and then 9 out of 10 guys have to fight over one girl. which is ridiculous since if you place it that way that makes everyone superficial.
 

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if you want to know why every girl has about a dozen guys (to understate) chasing her at any one time, it's because of the breakdown in monogamy.

Are you sure about that? I don't see that happening.


The most that I have ever seen is 3 guys pursuing one girl.


Used to be, one person each.
Now, with hookups more prevalent, it's more primitive in nature.


Females have more innate sexual power, because their reproduction is more exclusive. A guy can mate with 3 or more females a day, a female can reproduce with one person every 9 months maximum. So, without social structure, there is more demand for that reproductive ability than for males'.


Hence, with the removal of monogamous societal structure, when everyone can sleep with who they want, whenever, this is what happens. Male reproductive strategy benefits from mating with as many females as possible, whereas female reproductive strategy benefits from mating more selectively. Hence, the top 10% of males in terms of attractiveness can mate with 90% of the females. No longer does every male get an opportunity to mate. Competition becomes much more fierce, because now you have to demonstrate you are better than 90% of other males to be given chance, whereas before you just had to be reasonable. Without monogamy, those top 10% of males are not removed from the market by virtue of mating with a female, they are available for all other females, if they choose. As a male, you are competing with all other males now for each and every female, not just trying to be good enough to secure someone of similar value to your own value.

Hmm, interesting observation you have there! I find the hookup culture to be irresponsible. Both individuals should be responsible for each other, especially if there are children involved.
 

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You make it seem like girls get anything they want. To be honest one of the main reasons that there are guys without girls isn't just because girls are selective causing guys to have to be alpha males. It is also because in modern society the guys not only have ridiculous expectations of girls, but they also chase after a certain type. So if you view it this way not every girl have a dozen guys chasing her at a time. Because if that were true, heck every person I know would have dated someone at least once. But let's be reall some of us have been and are single.
you make it seem like in the sense that 9 out of ten girls are attracted to one guy, and then 9 out of 10 guys have to fight over one girl. which is ridiculous since if you place it that way that makes everyone superficial.
it makes it ridiculous because you find the idea of it distasteful?
sorry if my Ti rejects that as a valid counterargument.

I don't think things are quite that bad in real life yet, because there is still monogamy to an extent.
But if you want an example of where things are that bad, try online dating.
Try the profile of any girl who isn't hideous. You can even try below average. You will get at least 5 messages on the first day, in a reasonably built up area. If the girl is average, more like 20 messages+. I joined, and got 2 messages in 3 months. Am I just ugly? Even if I were, the results of such are not even close to being as significant as the female equivalent.
If a girl has not dated, it is because of her own selectivity, or circumstantial issues, not lack of willing suitors, because any girl can join a dating site and have plenty of guys to choose from.
 

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Ok first of all there is no need to bring personality type attributes to this discussion. Guys do have very high expectations of girls. As you mentioned the "ugly" ones get lets comments then the "average" or "pretty" and you would define those as what? That just shows how the guys are selecting who they want to communicate with not the girls. It isn't the girl that is causing people to write to her more. It is societies assumption that a picture = personality and well being. Do you really believe that a beautiful girl will be nicer then an ugly one?
And so you are saying that if a guy hasn't dated it's because of the girl being picky and only reaching for the 10 percent but if a girl hasn't dated then it's also her fault because she must be reaching for that 10 percent right? shes measing the 90 percent of men available? isn't that what you are saying?
You argument is just as valid for guys if you are complaining there aren't enough girls left for you, and you think hey girls can join dating sites, then so can guys. there we go. And honostly maybe not everyone likes dating sites ever think of that?
most people my age have been through a bunch of relationships I haven't. That is not because I am selective, infact I am not old fashioned either, I have asked guys out. But hey No guy ever asked me out. mnmmm but I must selective, or circumstantial, you are right. that explains it. It can't possibly be that maybe the guys that I have encountered in are all competeing with each other as you said for that girl that only the 10 percent get, and completely forgetting all the other ones. Dammit no one is limiting your options just stop complaining and open your eyes.
 

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Ok first of all there is no need to bring personality type attributes to this discussion.
Just a convenient way to explain the basis of my disagreement, a common point of reference for judging by different criteria.
Guys do have very high expectations of girls. As you mentioned the "ugly" ones get less comments then the "average" or "pretty" and you would define those as what?
less messages, yes, relatively speaking. I never said looks didn't matter for guys. But all girls will be deemed acceptable in looks by a significant number of guys, with more attractive girls being deemed acceptable by more guys.

That just shows how the guys are selecting who they want to communicate with not the girls. It isn't the girl that is causing people to write to her more.
What are you disputing here? I never claimed any of that. I claimed a breakdown in monogamy causes a one-sided demand.

It is societies assumption that a picture = personality and well being. Do you really believe that a beautiful girl will be nicer then an ugly one?
Um, what? Why is this relevant?
I actually believe a lot of the time uglier ones will be nicer, because they are less likely to have had their egos stoked to unhealthy levels constantly by desperate guys trying to flatter them. But it could go either way, because sometimes when girls are insecure about their looks, they develop an ego to compensate, to convince themselves they are amazing and valuable etc.

And so you are saying that if a guy hasn't dated it's because of the girl being picky and only reaching for the 10 percent but if a girl hasn't dated then it's also her fault because she must be reaching for that 10 percent right? shes measing the 90 percent of men available? isn't that what you are saying?
Well, not exactly. If a girl of average looks or above hasn't dated, it's definitely because of that. I believe some of the uglier ones may get interest, but primarily from "creepy" guys, which, when genuinely being lewd and behaving unacceptably, are reasonable to reject. However, it could still be other factors, such as social anxiety etc that stop her from dating. But never because there are literally no opportunities.
You argument is just as valid for guys if you are complaining there aren't enough girls left for you, and you think hey girls can join dating sites, then so can guys. there we go.
Yes, and many do join dating sites. You don't seem to grasp my main point about them, that the consequences of doing so are very different for either gender. If you're an average male joining a dating site, you're basically wasting your time. A girl will be inundated by offers, only very attractive males will have a fraction of the attention. I tested this. Made a profile with a male model as the picture, and the most boring sounding, bland profile I could. 8 messages in the first day. Made a guy that was perhaps average or slightly above, nothing at all.
And honostly maybe not everyone likes dating sites ever think of that?
then that's their choice, and not representative of any external imbalance.
most people my age have been through a bunch of relationships I haven't. That is not because I am selective, infact I am not old fashioned either, I have asked guys out. But hey No guy ever asked me out. mnmmm but I must selective, or circumstantial, you are right. that explains it. It can't possibly be that maybe the guys that I have encountered in are all competeing with each other as you said for that girl that only the 10 percent get, and completely forgetting all the other ones. Dammit no one is limiting your options just stop complaining and open your eyes.
If you are older, then this applies less to you, because monogamy was more prevalent in the past. But if you want, join a dating site, you will get plenty of offers. In any case, trying to disprove a trend with only yourself is ridiculous. I know of a 7ft 6 chinese guy. So chinese people are all really tall?
 

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The brainwashing stating that: " Love is the best thing in the world " , " Sex is the best thing in the world " , " Who has not loved is indeed a sad man " , " I never feel better than when I am with her " , " I want to be with her every second of every day " , " You life is not complete without a partner " , " You don't have a girlfriend your lame " , etc, etc, etc
And besided dating is the thing that every man can do, no matter how stupid, idiot, superficial, etc he is
 

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How are chinese people relevent at all XD No I am not 'older' -.-
I am pretty sure we are arguing practicly the same thing here. That society has standards that are stupid. as you proven with your model profile thing. All I am saying is you can't just automatically assume faults in others, just because things arn't working the way you expect them to. You can't really point fingers at one thing, there are a million aspects that when put together result in the conflict.
on a side no, I never said there are no opportunities. I just think personality comes into a large play here that you are overlooking. You can not assume if a girl is good looking but hasn't dated then something is wrong with her. I myself, and many of my friends considered "Good looking" atleast by the definitions of the the people that meet us, and the model companies that send us letters, but we are just different, we are quiet, unique, and those are aspects that come in to play other then physical appearence.
 
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