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PerC's 6w6
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We're idealists, fine. We live in a world where possibilites can easily outpace expectations (and reality), fine.

But why are we so hard on ourselves, more especially for things outside our control?

I mean there's some things one can take responsibility for: if you hit someone and that person gets injured, that's your fault and you can fairly take blame for it.

However, if there's a bank robbery (or other such situation) in progress and you try and protect someone who subsequently gets shot, that's not your fault considering you will have done what you can to protect them.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, there's a point whereby one cannot reasonably assign blame or failure to oneself for something - after that point life takes over and the natural process of things is responsible: you cannot blame yourself for an earthquake in Japan if you've never been there, nor can you blame yourself for your neighbor's house burning down if you weren't home at the time. But yet that doesn't stop the blame loop from happening.

Why?

And it's all the more important considering this blame loop can make its way into the "value system net-web-thing" and become ingrained in one's self if not addressed properly leading one to blame themselves for something they had no control over, for the rest of their lives. That doesn't make sense nor is it practical or empathetic. I'm not saying that there can't or shouldn't be remorse for things going badly, but at the same time, for taking feeling into account such is likely to harm our own feelings and leave us emotionally down and distressed which isn't good either.
 

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His Majesty
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I see what you are saying. Let's go to the source of this: (Fi) Introverted Feeling

This function (which is the dominant function in INFPs [Fi Ne Si Te] ) is super strong within you. As a ENFP, I have this function as well but it's my Secondary function so it's not as strong. Plus in your mind you keep going over the possibilities of "what could have been done" or "what should have been done" and so you end up blaming yourself for things that is ultimately out of your control (a product of Ne (Extroverted iNtuition). As for getting over this, you must try to develop (easier said than done) your last function, Te (Extroverted Thinking) You must logically reason through the facts AND realize that IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT.

Also, look at it from a optimistic point of view. Use that auxiliary Ne to see the possibilities of how it could have been worse. Be thankful it wasn't. I hope I was helpful.
 

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PerC's 6w6
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You were and thanks for the answer :). It's still confusing though - why subject yourself to a constant barrage of self-hatred when logic can show you that your feelings are misplaced?

I mean I can understand that the logic is less used since its inferior, but isn't the inferior function still present and available for use? Can't it come out during periods of severe stress?

And surely with all the thinking going on that possibility will be stumbled across at some point? (it wasn't my fault and there's nothing I could have done to change the situation or outcome)
 

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His Majesty
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You were and thanks for the answer :). It's still confusing though - why subject yourself to a constant barrage of self-hatred when logic can show you that your feelings are misplaced?

I mean I can understand that the logic is less used since its inferior, but isn't the inferior function still present and available for use? Can't it come out during periods of severe stress?

And surely with all the thinking going on that possibility will be stumbled across at some point? (it wasn't my fault and there's nothing I could have done to change the situation or outcome)
Well, it's kinda like your Fi is a HUGE statue and your Te is a garden gnome many yards behind it..... You have to see past that HUGE Fi to get to the Te.... It's possible but like I said "easier said than done".
 

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The thing is (at least from my own experience) that INFPs do think about the possibility that they could have done nothing better at the time into action, but often reject it right after or it gets flooded by all the other possibilities. INFPs are after all idealist, they rerun what had happened, and see a new future with the new information they have learned from the past and regret that they couldn't cause that future.
 

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His Majesty
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The thing is (at least from my own experience) that INFPs do think about the possibility that they could have done nothing better at the time into action, but often reject it right after or it gets flooded by all the other possibilities. INFPs are after all idealist, they rerun what had happened, and see a new future with the new information they have learned from the past and regret that they couldn't cause that future.
But then again, you're blaming yourself for something you had NO knowledge about from the start. Had you known this information, the results would have been different or better. Just because you learned more after the fact doesn't mean that it's your fault after learning new information that you weren't privy to.
 

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As an extreme introvert, I am very self critical, up to the point where when I think about it after, I think I am actually being harsh on myself. Let's take my hockey and tennis as an example. I look up to the best of the sport that I know in real life, so the people in our group/team that are better than me, the coach and to a lesser extent, the best of the professional sport. I always aim to not only successfully pull off my technique, but do it flawlessey & consistently, without fail. I aim to do that in every match every time, and when I don't, I lose my confidence and a circle is created, which pulls me down.

It is a massive flaw, an unhealthy one you might say, but it's one that no matter how I try, I can't switch off.
 

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His Majesty
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As an extreme introvert, I am very self critical, up to the point where when I think about it after, I think I am actually being harsh on myself. Let's take my hockey and tennis as an example. I look up to the best of the sport that I know in real life, so the people in our group/team that are better than me, the coach and to a lesser extent, the best of the professional sport. I always aim to not only successfully pull off my technique, but do it flawlessey & consistently, without fail. I aim to do that in every match every time, and when I don't, I lose my confidence and a circle is created, which pulls me down.

It is a massive flaw, an unhealthy one you might say, but it's one that no matter how I try, I can't switch off.
You sound like a perfectionist. Michael Jackson was a perfectionist (ESFJ) (Fi aux) so it's no surprise to me. If you give it your all, then that is enough. You did your best. Some can go bigger, harder, faster and/or stronger...... Accept it. Everyone has their limits. This HAS to be realized. Think: Does beating yourself down or being hard on yourself REALLY help? Or does it harm you? Fi is also a function that evokes self worth, so you will be going AGAINST your function by tearing yourself down. It's counter-productive to you as a person. Keep that in mind and heart.
 

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PerC's 6w6
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Well, it's kinda like your Fi is a HUGE statue and your Te is a garden gnome many yards behind it..... You have to see past that HUGE Fi to get to the Te.... It's possible but like I said "easier said than done".
Yes, that makes sense. BUT, I mean, we constantly are looking at things from other angles/perspectives. Why would it not be plausible to look behind the Fi statue to see the Te garden gnome?

The thing is (at least from my own experience) that INFPs do think about the possibility that they could have done nothing better at the time into action, but often reject it right after or it gets flooded by all the other possibilities. INFPs are after all idealist, they rerun what had happened, and see a new future with the new information they have learned from the past and regret that they couldn't cause that future.
And it then (given time) ends up leading to pain and suffering on our parts because we keep running through it over and over... In the end our feelings hurt us.

INFP: I Never Find Perfection.

The idealism applies to ourselves as well. We expect way too much of ourselves and others, and we often end up disappointed.
But surely after a time there has to be a realization that things are not necessarily going to work out that way. Bear in mind I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with dreaming or imagining a better future, but there's a difference between aspiring to go to the Moon, and aspiring to go to Pluto. There's a difference between aspiring to be a millionaire, and aspiring to be a billionaire. One is reachable with a lot of hard work and effort whereas one is unfounded and likely impossible for the vast majority of people.

As an extreme introvert, I am very self critical, up to the point where when I think about it after, I think I am actually being harsh on myself. Let's take my hockey and tennis as an example. I look up to the best of the sport that I know in real life, so the people in our group/team that are better than me, the coach and to a lesser extent, the best of the professional sport. I always aim to not only successfully pull off my technique, but do it flawlessey & consistently, without fail. I aim to do that in every match every time, and when I don't, I lose my confidence and a circle is created, which pulls me down.

It is a massive flaw, an unhealthy one you might say, but it's one that no matter how I try, I can't switch off.
This is what I'm driving at. For example: say, someone was to come to you with a machine that predicted the future and was to tell you you will only ever be as good as you are now, and will not be better: no matter what it is - tennis, or drawing, or maybe making garden gnomes. Would you still continue to strive for perfection knowing it's impossible, or would you settle and find something else perhaps more suited to your strengths or interests? Why is it harder to let go of something closely held, than something not really cared for? If one doesn't care about drawing why does that drive for perfection not matter as much as making a suit or a program (if one is interested in such)?

In other words, does the feeling not have a "self-preservation" instinct whereby after a time it acts to stop us from hurting ourselves?
 

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But then again, you're blaming yourself for something you had NO knowledge about from the start. Had you known this information, the results would have been different or better. Just because you learned more after the fact doesn't mean that it's your fault after learning new information that you weren't privy to.
It's just as you said, our Fi is huge, and out Ti is small, but not only that, Ti is extroverted while Fi is mostly introverted. That shows that most of INFP's feelings are shown on the inside. Meaning they think of the possibilities within themselves. While for Ti to best work the INFP needs to talk, if not to others at least themselves.
 

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For me, at the core is that I don't love myself. I just want to be okay with myself. Anything more, and that places to much expectations on myself and it is too hard to be "awesome", "wonderful", "amazing", etc. I'll never be able to live up to those kinds of expectations. So I need to change the "I am not okay" into "I am okay". I have high expectations for myself, and how one treats themselves is how they are going to treat others. This means I have high expectations of others. I know this is true because I am constantly judging people, either they are better or worse off than me. It may not appear on the outside that I have high expectations of others because I am tolerant of others, but on the inside the judgments are there. It makes it hard to become close or develop intimate relationships with people when I have these expectations or judgments. I start to see the person as my expectations and hold them accountable to that standard, instead of just letting them be.

For me, I've only had one girlfriend and this has made me really judge myself. At times, I can love myself and feel good about myself, but then I tell myself I am single, and if I was alright, I would be with somebody. I've heard a lot your a good guy, you'll make some one a good husband/boyfriend and yet I'm still single. You'll make some one a good boyfriend, but not for me. I start to just hear "you are not good enough" and I notice this a lot more with women. It's a dangerous place to be guys and I hope you don't end up going there yourselves. Now it's reaching a point where I don't trust women and am starting to hate them. Also to paint them all with the same brush.

One thing I would suggest to not have this happen to you, is take risks. If you want to ask a girl out, do it. Don't talk yourself out of it by coming up with reasons as to why you aren't good enough for her. DON'T put women on pedestals. I am sure they do not want to be on them either as ultimately they will never be able to meet our expectations. Women are human, with both beauties and flaws; and I think I've made them out to be goddesses or angels that I am undeserving of. And is you find a woman attractive or sexy, and just want to have sex with her; try flirting with her. See what happens. I am not saying you need to be a player or sleep with hundreds of girls, but just be genuine. Be human. We have a sex drive and there is no shame in that. Take risks, it will help you to love yourself and set boundaries. Stand up for yourself and what you believe. I've let too many people walk all over me and it just leads to resentments. Because I didn't attempt to stand up for myself, I place the blame on them. It's easier to put the fault on some one else rather than on myself and making changes with myself. Find out what you want and go for it. We are all special and deserve to be happy. But only we can make ourselves happy. If we don't love ourselves, than no one else will (for the long term). And even if they do, we won't believe it.
 

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How does one develop his Te?
 

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His Majesty
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Acceptance is the key. It sounds to me that you (some of you) don't accept yourselves as a person... You let your Fi get in the way. You must use it, don't let it use YOU. How? @lifeisanillusion said to "take risks". I agree. SO WHAT IF IT DOESN'T WORK OUT?! AT LEAST YOU TRIED! Fi also causes you to over think things. There is no sense in doing that because you may cause yourself to fail before you even start. JUMP FOR IT!
 

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His Majesty
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How does one develop his Te?
Hang out with others who have this as a Primary or secondary function..... ESTJ, ENTJ, INTJ & ISTJ. They can help you. But you MUST be willing to accept the help and use it.
 

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His Majesty
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It's just as you said, our Fi is huge, and out Ti is small, but not only that, Ti is extroverted while Fi is mostly introverted. That shows that most of INFP's feelings are shown on the inside. Meaning they think of the possibilities within themselves. While for Ti to best work the INFP needs to talk, if not to others at least themselves.
INFPs have Te as their last function. Te is gathering facts, ideas and theories from a external source..... So, when things happen beyond your control, you must consider the FACTS. Once that happens then you will be eased to know that you did all you could. Don't focus on anything else. There is no use for that.
 

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... nor can you blame yourself for your neighbor's house burning down if you weren't home at the time. But yet that doesn't stop the blame loop from happening.

Why?
That is really funny you said that because my neighbor's house actually did burn down about a month ago and I was asleep in bed when it happened. I heard him yelling and I didn't get up to look out the window. When I finally did look out the window, I saw his house was smoking and ruined and there were firetrucks everywhere. My first reaction was guilt. "Why didn't I get up earlier and go help him!!???" I felt very bad about it for a while. But then I got to thinking, what the heck could I have done to "help"? I wasn't going to go into a burning building and try to save his taxidermy collection (which is what he was doing). But I guess I just wanted to be there for moral support or something.

But you're right, it's not my fault it happened yet I felt guilty that I decided to sleep in on a Sunday morning instead of look out the window to see why my neighbor was yelling.

I'm not plagued with guilt about it now, I realize there is nothing I could have done. But I can't help but feel sad still. Maybe it's the experience of seeing someone in trauma or suffering and knowing that you can't do anything about it that is so demoralizing and feels so powerless. You wish you could have helped and you almost believe that you could have if given the right circumstance. You want to believe you aren't as powerless as you really are.
 
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