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I'm going on my first-ever date with an INTJ tonight. She is a bit soft on the "T" and almost an INFJ she says. Regardless, I've been poking around this site and see some anecdotal information that ENFP-INTJ relationships tend to "blow up" I'm wondering if anyone can suggest reasons why?

So far, this has been one of the easiest times to get from introduction to date and things seem fluid and easy so far. Wondering if I'm missing something lol.
 

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I'm going on my first-ever date with an INTJ tonight. She is a bit soft on the "T" and almost an INFJ she says. Regardless, I've been poking around this site and see some anecdotal information that ENFP-INTJ relationships tend to "blow up" I'm wondering if anyone can suggest reasons why?

So far, this has been one of the easiest times to get from introduction to date and things seem fluid and easy so far. Wondering if I'm missing something lol.
I'm married to a type that people said would never work or if it does work the relationship would be turbulent due to misunderstanding and value clashing. I understand my partner thoroughly-we have been together for over 14 years and it's our strong communication that keeps us together- believe @Llyralen parents are the same type

I don't need mbti or cognitive functions to understand my partner- I didn't even know his type before joining PerC

But yeah- highly doubt mbti can predict love/type or attraction- we're all individuals


when it comes to love/lust/attraction - I highly doubt you can determine the outcome


For my case I didn't want to pursue the relationship further bc interest lead me elsewhere however we were never officially a couple ( as in we never held hands even ) he ended up resenting me and thought that I lead him on ( despite the fact that i told him I'm no longer crushing on him but see him as a friend ) my story is too immature though ( as in I was in my teens) quite certain the older u get the more you know what you want.





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Hmm, you know what's weird, man? I met this INTJ about a month ago. Things started off great, we talked about life and things, talked about lots of preferences and interests, and it seemed cool. But after that initial night, things died off.

I bet you she's still attached to her ex... who cheated on her... so it's whatever. Point being, I don't know what's up with INTJs either, or most introverts for that matter.
 
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I'm going on my first-ever date with an INTJ tonight. She is a bit soft on the "T" and almost an INFJ she says. Regardless, I've been poking around this site and see some anecdotal information that ENFP-INTJ relationships tend to "blow up" I'm wondering if anyone can suggest reasons why?

So far, this has been one of the easiest times to get from introduction to date and things seem fluid and easy so far. Wondering if I'm missing something lol.
The issue I have with mbti is that it creates these theoretical pairings that are supposedly "soulmates" like it's written in fate and set in stone.
And their reasoning as to why these pairings are the "ultimate" are often faulty, illogical and ridiculous in my opinion. Simply because the reasoning can just as well backfire and apply to any type pairings.

I've met wonderful INTJs and I've met sucky ass INTJs. Unfortunately, I've met the latter more often. I've met INTJs who prefer ESxPs and other NTs.
I've met ENFPs who prefer other perceivers and extroverts.

This could be said about any mbti type and individual though.

People who are into mbti tend to concentrate on supposed "soulmate" pairings too much and I see so many ENFP and "ENFPs" try to look for that one magical INTJ expecting that it will play out magically like mbti theory says when it's actually pretty rare.
That's not to say INTJ x ENFP does not work. I've seen some that do, but at the end of the day, it's all based on individuals. Not type.

People put so much focus on whatever pairing that when the pair doesn't work, it stands out glaringly as opposed to lesser known pairings.

Like Ai said, she's married to an ISTP which mbti theory constantly put down as being the worst pairing ever next to ESTP x INFP.

And yet in my personal life, the ENFPs who are not aware of mbti and choose their partners based on love and ended up in long term relationships with them were: INFP, ENTP, ISTP, ESTP, ENTJ and ESFP.


My advice is to not worry about why so and so blow up or doesn't work out. Just live and go with the flow to see where it takes you.
 

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The issue I have with mbti is that it creates these theoretical pairings that are supposedly "soulmates" like it's written in fate and set in stone.
And their reasoning as to why these pairings are the "ultimate" are often faulty, illogical and ridiculous in my opinion. Simply because the reasoning can just as well backfire and apply to any type pairings.

I've met wonderful INTJs and I've met sucky ass INTJs. Unfortunately, I've met the latter more often. I've met INTJs who prefer ESxPs and other NTs.
I've met ENFPs who prefer other perceivers and extroverts.

This could be said about any mbti type and individual though.
That said, in my personal experience MBTI has been an 'overwhelming' indicator of at least initial attraction, usually mutual. While I have not yet dated an INTJ, I have dated a few INFJs and INFPs to near-universal "spark" between us, at least at the start.
 

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Some insecurity could build up from both sides.. The INTJ will be critical of the ENFP for being jealous of their outgoingness. The ENFP will feel incompetent at times because of the INTJs superior logistics and will alley hoop the INTJ to mock them. This often build resentment in the ENFP until a point comes where enough is enough and the ENFP will try to fix everything by doing something drastic that will probably cause the INTJ to doorslam them in the face.

But if you establish some healthy communication I'm sure you could avoid it altogether. Good luck mate, wish you all the best.
 

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when I first joined PerC there were many threads on this. There was a long-running one called something like “the NF-NT death spiral.” And I have experience with INTJ friendships, enough so that Ive has long pm conversations with INTJs about their particular INTJ.

I think this type for you might actually be amazing. I will tell you why. Your Te is well-developed and you’re old enough to speak your Fi morals and hold your ground. You also have your shit together which an INTJ girl basically MUST have to commit. She’s not going to choose Fi over Te readily. Things have to look good on paper. Once that’s acknowledged they will often go nuts over our Fi and sometimes Ne too... if you get one who is further towards center of judging and perceiving. If they are a very strong judged, this relationship will likely not work as they then can’t handle our Ne. But you are more towards the middle on your judger/perceiver side to. Good to go, Moby. This should run well.

My experience with problems in relationships with INTJs has to do with the pressure we can sometimes feel when they feel like Te morals have been breached. There are so many tiny examples coming to my mind.

Like for instance me just acting a bit less formal than the INTJ with others who I know I can cut to the chase with and do without the formalities. The INTJ will want to stop me for a half second until they realize I made the other person laugh or something and there was an understanding of it all being okay. They will get surprised by how it all works for us and kind of delighted but worried for just a bit. You’ll do fine. You’ve got the confidence to pull it off with them.

But really really it’s about if you do something Fi before Te then they won’t understand it and they will think you broached an absolute universal truth or value and if we are not good at explaining that Fi thing to them— like why it was important, how we are going to for sure do that again, how if the same circumstances came about again we would do the same thing— if we are not good at explaining our thinking then they will be very confused and not know if you are a good guy or what. Too many of these and the INTJ is done. The INTJ can make us feel very guilty since we well understand that we went against their Te expectations and we know the acuteness of what they are feeling. We say we will try to do better... thinking to strike a win-win between Fi and their Te. This doesn’t happen, Fi gets picked first, and the problem happens again. However, usually if you just can explain your Fi decision making to them (hard to do with Fi) and hold your ground to explain your thinking, then they will actually really understand your Fi morals as often superior. The whole trick is confidence and having your shit together enough to be consistent and help them with their expectations.

INTJs do not do well with uncertainty imo. They need things decided and settled. The more J, the more this is true.

I think you are well suited to the needs of the right INTJ if you find you like this pairing.
Stand your ground, be dependable, there is hardly anything more precious than the trust and adoration of an INTJ, imo, because once they care I actually don’t think they ever get over it. So be careful!
 

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I think Llyralen explained pretty much what I already wanted to say, so I'll just confirm that Te over Fi can create a big conflict. Also, when Ni and Ne come in contact, Ni can stifle Ne while Ne can confuse Ni. An INTj might also try to organize an ENFP which could result in an ENFP exploding (this is one of the several things that happened in my case). Another difference is that I enjoy the breadth of a conversation with lots of digressions while he preferred focusing on one point and delving into details. He would often feel sidetracked and I would often get impatient because he would keep coming back to the original point while I wanted to say a hundred other things that popped into my head in the meantime.

That being said, it would have been a very interesting experience had he been a healthy person and had we only stayed friends.

EDIT: One more thing, once you get an INTJ's full attention and interest, it can feel overwhelming. We can also be that way when we find someone intriguing for whatever reason, but there's something very heavy and intense about them and it feels like they are sucking you in and consuming you, wanting to know every little thing about you. It feels like they want to become an inseparable part of you (this experience is also something other ENFPs talked about, check Reddit) and depending on the recipient of this kind of attention, it can be either heaven or hell. I dealt with a sick INTJ and I tried not to mention the pathological aspects of his behavior, but this heavy intensity isn't a part of his mental illness and has been mentioned by others who were involved with other INTJs.
 

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I found the thread, @Moby85. I guess the original idea is from a website. I have to say that in my life this NT/NF thing never happened the way the theory here states. I actually see NTs as being the ones quick to get interested. From participation on PerC, I'd say it's at LEAST 50/50, if not more on the NT side. But... NTs only impress me when they do feeler things like showing they care lol. (That sounds horribly biased, I guess?)

https://www.personalitycafe.com/enfp-forum-inspirers/92214-nf-nt-death-spiral-all-nfs-nts-encouraged-comment.html
 

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Moby, I'm convinced the ENFP-INTJ romance you're about to start can actually work out quite well. Especially with male ENFPs with female INTJs. Of course, each relationship is a case-by-case scenario, as MBTI only represents a fraction of a person.

I'm so excited for you. Hopefully this time's a charm! You probably feel anxious inside, but that's totally okay. It's always fun to meet and date new people. I've read from other INTJ females with ENFP male matches and their experiences seem to work out really well with INTJ women happy overall with their ENFP dudes.
 

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Thanks @Llyralen for being honest and true.

After some observation on this particular topic my take is so simple, in general form.

Do not ever date any INTJ, whatever your type is, wherever you're coming from, UNLESS you:
- are prepared to suffer
- are not emotionally deficient/wanting
- don't have ego problem or insecurity complex
- are willing to compromise (and occasionally succumb)
- are open to straight honest painful truth

There are other much better types, aka human, as potential partner. There you go, move on.



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Moby, I'm convinced the ENFP-INTJ romance you're about to start can actually work out quite well. Especially with male ENFPs with female INTJs. Of course, each relationship is a case-by-case scenario, as MBTI only represents a fraction of a person.

I'm so excited for you. Hopefully this time's a charm! You probably feel anxious inside, but that's totally okay. It's always fun to meet and date new people. I've read from other INTJ females with ENFP male matches and their experiences seem to work out really well with INTJ women happy overall with their ENFP dudes.
Oh man, I am blown away. Besides being gorgeous and not a disappointment in person (sadly like several online dates I had met) her personality was exactly as YouTube and various articles I've read advertised. She's an INTJ with a few INFJ tendencies and I'll admit I am smitten. Probably the most I've been after a first date. I got her laughing, we got kicked out of the restaurant after most of the staff left (4 hours) all this despite her saying she had poor social skills...Which I thought were great social skills. We debated reality, do we live in a Matrix? Health food, quantum theory.

But through all that she never overtly flirted or otherwise gave me cues. Now I don't know where to go from here lol. Argh...No matter what, it was a privilege to go on a date with her. I feel grand.
 

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when I first joined PerC there were many threads on this. There was a long-running one called something like “the NF-NT death spiral.” And I have experience with INTJ friendships, enough so that Ive has long pm conversations with INTJs about their particular INTJ.

I think this type for you might actually be amazing. I will tell you why. Your Te is well-developed and you’re old enough to speak your Fi morals and hold your ground. You also have your shit together which an INTJ girl basically MUST have to commit. She’s not going to choose Fi over Te readily. Things have to look good on paper. Once that’s acknowledged they will often go nuts over our Fi and sometimes Ne too... if you get one who is further towards center of judging and perceiving. If they are a very strong judged, this relationship will likely not work as they then can’t handle our Ne. But you are more towards the middle on your judger/perceiver side to. Good to go, Moby. This should run well.

My experience with problems in relationships with INTJs has to do with the pressure we can sometimes feel when they feel like Te morals have been breached. There are so many tiny examples coming to my mind.

Like for instance me just acting a bit less formal than the INTJ with others who I know I can cut to the chase with and do without the formalities. The INTJ will want to stop me for a half second until they realize I made the other person laugh or something and there was an understanding of it all being okay. They will get surprised by how it all works for us and kind of delighted but worried for just a bit. You’ll do fine. You’ve got the confidence to pull it off with them.

But really really it’s about if you do something Fi before Te then they won’t understand it and they will think you broached an absolute universal truth or value and if we are not good at explaining that Fi thing to them— like why it was important, how we are going to for sure do that again, how if the same circumstances came about again we would do the same thing— if we are not good at explaining our thinking then they will be very confused and not know if you are a good guy or what. Too many of these and the INTJ is done. The INTJ can make us feel very guilty since we well understand that we went against their Te expectations and we know the acuteness of what they are feeling. We say we will try to do better... thinking to strike a win-win between Fi and their Te. This doesn’t happen, Fi gets picked first, and the problem happens again. However, usually if you just can explain your Fi decision making to them (hard to do with Fi) and hold your ground to explain your thinking, then they will actually really understand your Fi morals as often superior. The whole trick is confidence and having your shit together enough to be consistent and help them with their expectations.

INTJs do not do well with uncertainty imo. They need things decided and settled. The more J, the more this is true.

I think you are well suited to the needs of the right INTJ if you find you like this pairing.
Stand your ground, be dependable, there is hardly anything more precious than the trust and adoration of an INTJ, imo, because once they care I actually don’t think they ever get over it. So be careful!
This was an AMAZING writeup so thank you. Well, proof will be whether she wants to go out again. I wasn't nervous and was definitely the full "ENFP me" so if she turns me down for a second date there's nothing realistically we could do. It was like dating an alien though - stoic, calm, controlled. She laughed at times and was expressive at others but there's no denying an overall very collected nature about her. We did seem to meet on values and interests...But she never overtly flirted.

Even one time on a similar date with an INFJ last summer at least she at the end of the date said "What do you think? I really like you".
 

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I'm going on my first-ever date with an INTJ tonight. She is a bit soft on the "T" and almost an INFJ she says. Regardless, I've been poking around this site and see some anecdotal information that ENFP-INTJ relationships tend to "blow up" I'm wondering if anyone can suggest reasons why?

So far, this has been one of the easiest times to get from introduction to date and things seem fluid and easy so far. Wondering if I'm missing something lol.
it's simple, IJs need control and are psychorigid, while EPs hate to be controlled and are adaptable

in the beginning there is good rapport because of the N connection, but as the relationship progresses, the above dynamic will become more and more prominent as their lives intermingle, the INTJ will be pushing the ENFP to conform to their needs and the ENFP will be giving things up, until it blows because both people will start feeling stressed by each others' innate behaviors combating their own.

Of course, everyone's individual preferences and needs are different so it can work some times, but it's a difficult power dynamic.
 

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Oh man, I am blown away. Besides being gorgeous and not a disappointment in person (sadly like several online dates I had met) her personality was exactly as YouTube and various articles I've read advertised. She's an INTJ with a few INFJ tendencies and I'll admit I am smitten. Probably the most I've been after a first date. I got her laughing, we got kicked out of the restaurant after most of the staff left (4 hours) all this despite her saying she had poor social skills...Which I thought were great social skills. We debated reality, do we live in a Matrix? Health food, quantum theory.

But through all that she never overtly flirted or otherwise gave me cues. Now I don't know where to go from here lol. Argh...No matter what, it was a privilege to go on a date with her. I feel grand.
@Moby85 Ask her out again today, I'm serious. Since she gave no negative indication, she will want that certainty.

I remember the first time someone said "I like you, I'd like to go out again." Oh my gosh... that was like the most mature awesome thing I'd ever heard. Anyway, you didn't get that, but you didn't get any "no" and she'll want that certainty. And you liked her? Ask her out today (not to a date for today... for the weekend would likely be good...but I wouldn't let the space/uncertainty creep in... like I wouldn't wait until tomorrow to ask her out since you liked her so much.)
Glad you had a good time!
 

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Thanks @Llyralen for being honest and true.

After some observation on this particular topic my take is so simple, in general form.

Do not ever date any INTJ, whatever your type is, wherever you're coming from, UNLESS you:
- are prepared to suffer
- are not emotionally deficient/wanting
- don't have ego problem or insecurity complex
- are willing to compromise (and occasionally succumb)
- are open to straight honest painful truth

There are other much better types, aka human, as potential partner. There you go, move on.



Sent sans PC
You sound like my intj brother - every time we talk about relationship he'll jokingly say " I'm saving others from suffering "

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
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Like Ai said, she's married to an ISTP which mbti theory constantly put down as being the worst pairing ever next to ESTP x INFP.
Yes, theoretically any combination of persons could match but some do it naturally easier while others have to put in some effort. Ai has explained it well to me at some point why it works for her and I understand it thus I don't argue :) But I don't think Ne+Se is even theoretically the worst combination. Do you imagine that you or any other ENFP could really perfectly, seemlessly and easily match with high Si types without effort (as they often naturally step on our toes with that Si, be it relationship or not)? :) Se, Ni, Te are not our "enemies" but Si sometimes is :) I don't need to be in relationship with xSxJs to see that by myself based on people I've met around :) Maybe it's just me, maybe not, who knows.
 

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If I may add my mite, as I've seen how things play out: As an INFJ who has had an INTJ and his adventures under close observation for more than half a century (he's my brother), and who (now referring to me) was until recently a lifelong serial ENFP lover (so I'm pretty hip to the diversity-range of ENFP-ness): The ENFP will never receive from the INTJ the profound emotional connection which he/she craves. The more mature INTJ will generously (I'm not being sarcastic) learn how to mimic an emotional connection and say or do "the right things" under defined conditions, which, with the undoubted powers native to the INTJ, may prove of sufficient charm to carry a relationship; but the deep-seeing ENFP will soon detect that this is surface mummery (be it ever so well intended), and there will always be a little voice inside the ENFP plaintively whispering, "But what about me?". And that is why the ENFP/INTJ relationship has a tendency to blow up.

YMMV . . . but I've seen a lot of INTJ and ENFP stuff, man. ​A lot.

Postscript:
Because thoroughness in research is always a desideratum, having written the above, I further consulted said brother (who has a degree in counseling) on this matter:

"What do you see for an ENFP/INTJ relationship?", I queried.

Quoth he, after a hesitation, "Problems."

"Because of . . . ?"

"I'd rather not think about it."

That pretty much says it all.
 

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INTJs do not do well with uncertainty imo. They need things decided and settled. The more J, the more this is true.
This is definitely true. I have one INTJ friend/colleague and I've noticed that he's definitely not as comfortable with uncertainty than I am and needs things to be more settled and planned. But I can't see any clash in it as both still talk and think in similar language (Ne-Ni) while Fi+Te "language" in whatever order isn't that much different too :) Also, if you had to be 24/7 with a person who just wants to plan things more than we do, it'd be somewhat relax for us I guess as we don't want to necessarily always deal with the same.
 
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