Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 142 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,008 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Being an ENTP with a heavy Fe, I can ALWAYS put my feelings into words. However, it seems that a lot of Fi users can't. Can someone explain this to me?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,866 Posts
Fi is a "deeper" perspective, that is often describe as harder to put into words. It's internal (and in Jungian lingo, "unsconscious", which he used for introverted functions despite their place on the preference order).
This doesn't mean they can't ever express their feelings (some make this generalization), but it also tends to be more universalistic ad harder to pin down in external ways.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,008 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Fi is a "deeper" perspective, that is often describe as harder to put into words. It's internal (and in Jungian lingo, "unsconscious", which he used for introverted functions despite their place on the preference order).
This doesn't mean they can't ever express their feelings (some make this generalization), but it also tends to be more universalistic ad harder to pin down in external ways.
Yeah, I was on the phone with an ENFP last night and was trying to get him to explain Fi to me. For the life of him, he just couldn't do it. Finally, he tried his best to do it, and the words that he used almost sounded foreign to me. I'm like WOW! So thanks for clearing this up.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,008 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Yea and Jung seemed to have a hard time articulating Fi too (he was also a Fe-type). He really speaks of it more from the standpoint of what it's not.

Von Franz's quote on Fi "I love you and its none of your business."
whereas Fe is "I love you and I'll make it your business."
Yeah, I've noticed that Fi is so much more personal than FE, and Fe is so much more out in the open
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,623 Posts
I find it easier to express my feelings threw stories and metaphors in order to illustrate what is going on inside of me. I actually don't think I am bad at telling someone how I feel and expressing my core values to them. What I find difficult is being expected to immediately have an opinion on something that I recently just found out about as I need to look at it from all angles and shift each piece threw my own internal value system. It takes me time to filter threw all of the ethical and moral dilemmas such concepts propose. I would say sometimes it may seem like Fi users have a hard time explaining something because of the topics they may be asked about to explain. For instance if they are asked about culture norms or general rules to society they may not have had time to think extensively about these things before because they were/are just commonly done. These concepts don't have a meaning right then and there to them outside of what is expected/supposed. Therefore it is hard for them to explain it to others now questioning it because they haven't questioned it before. It's hard to attribute value to something when you haven't thought about the meaning behind it.

That doesn't mean they don't know why they feel that way nor does it mean that they don't have a reason. It just means that they weren't prepared to answer that question at that time. Often times when you let them think about it at their own pace they could tell you/explain it to you (in my case atleast) just don't expect it to happen on the spot.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,008 Posts
Discussion Starter #8

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
For me, Fi is difficult to articulate because it's something which is obscure, yet integral to everything I do. I'm always using it, yet it isn't bouncing around my mind like how I perceive Fe or Se would be for Fe/Se doms. I find the influence of Fi to be more subtle, and the feelings which it creates are more instinctual and visceral, like gut feelings rather than easily assimilated and divulged feelings.

I suppose it'd be more comprehensible if I put it like: Fi is coming from within and I use it to relate to things which I absorb externally, so for me to articulate it, I have to try and draw it out in a way which doesn't sound like gibberish to the person I'm speaking to! It's a double whammy for me because I possess the INFP traits/stereotypes of being self conscious and a perfectionist, so if I was asked to describe Fi like you asked your friend to I'd probably be stammering too!

How I perceive Fe gives me the impression that since it's extroverted and is a function which is outwardly looking for connection in the world, you don't have to draw it out of yourself since it's already "out there", so it's easier to articulate than Fi is.

Well, hopefully this doesn't sound like balderdash, although I have a feeling it does...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,382 Posts
I think @The Great One is dead on with all of his observations pertaining to Fe and Fi! I can guarantee that Fe is way more "visible" and quick to external expression than Fi based on basically all of the Fi users I know, including myself (the differences can be conspicuously seen in when Fe and Fi users are on "secret F agendas," the Fi users can get away with not coming off as conspicuously emotionally manipulative, while the Fe types get called out on this instantly - it's pretty obvious with them). Fe users seem to find expression of feeling to be the norm in communication (while expression of one's internal thoughts/logic, Ti, isn't expected to be any shared means of communication, since all Fe types are also Ti types - they tend to adjust their feelings with the idea that others' thoughts are personal and inherently unique, so keeping others aware of the external feeling dynamic is necessary to make sure that the differences in subjective thought don't cause communication/relationship problems, etc.), while Fi users seem to expect that everyone has their own personal feelings that they have under control and do not need to be conveyed directly in conversation, while communicating through a shared external logic (Te) preserves these differences of feeling to make sure people don't clash over this and have to compromise their subjective feelings, etc. The fact that introverted functions are technically subjective, and in addition to introversion being subjective, feelings when introverted compound this more, is probably a huge part of why Fi is so hard to communicate effectively.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,382 Posts
How I perceive Fe gives me the impression that since it's extroverted and is a function which is outwardly looking for connection in the world, you don't have to draw it out of yourself since it's already "out there", so it's easier to articulate than Fi is.
I totally agree!
 

·
MOTM August 2012
Joined
·
3,467 Posts
The other thing about extraverted functions is that you have an objective standard by which to measure them. You can tell if someone is on Fe-autopilot (telling everyone how nice of a day they're having even if they look like ten miles of bad road). Whereas with Fi, we have to infer it, and our judgments might be wrong. What looks like selfishness to a Fe-type might not actually be what's motivating the Fi-type.

I have a photography class and the difference between Fi and Fe is so striking. The Fe types love to articulate why they take such and such photo, what it means to them, what the space represents, and on and on and on. The Fi types say next to nothing and when asked it's like "I dunno I just liked it for some reason." Or they begin to explain it from some other perspective like Sensation (it reminds me of a place a grew up, or the colors are nice, etc). But I notice it very difficult for them to express the qualities and why they are attracted to something, its just something internal that happens for them.

It's always interesting to watch Fe and Fi types go shopping because often the Fi type might love something that the Fe-type goes "yuck!" And the Fe-type can rail off a laundry list of reasons as to why its yucky, where the Fi-type might not be able to articulate what it is about it they like. They just say "its me," or "its just my personality," or something to that effect. I get the sense that Fi types are uncomfortable explaining their evaluations and might even feel put on the spot to have to try. Similar to a Ni-dom having to explain their intuitions or a Si-dom their perceptions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,866 Posts
I have a photography class and the difference between Fi and Fe is so striking. The Fe types love to articulate why they take such and such photo, what it means to them, what the space represents, and on and on and on. The Fi types say next to nothing and when asked it's like "I dunno I just liked it for some reason." Or they begin to explain it from some other perspective like Sensation (it reminds me of a place a grew up, or the colors are nice, etc). But I notice it very difficult for them to express the qualities and why they are attracted to something, its just something internal that happens for them.

It's always interesting to watch Fe and Fi types go shopping because often the Fi type might love something that the Fe-type goes "yuck!" And the Fe-type can rail off a laundry list of reasons as to why its yucky, where the Fi-type might not be able to articulate what it is about it they like. They just say "its me," or "its just my personality," or something to that effect. I get the sense that Fi types are uncomfortable explaining their evaluations and might even feel put on the spot to have to try. Similar to a Ni-dom having to explain their intuitions or a Si-dom their perceptions.
As an ENTJ my last CN is Fi. Most of the time it's not so much that I can't put it into words, but I just have NO idea what I am feeling, let alone what anyone else is feeling. That's one of the reasons ENTJ's come off as such huge jerks sometimes.
And by comparison, as Ti dom, it looks like Fi, because I too cannot easily articulate why I like things. I'll be looking for some technical explanation and often there won't be any; because why we like things is a humane (personal/impersonal) subject, which is not as conscious. And with Fe as inferior, even if there is an objective reason, I might fear that others will think it's silly or whatever and keep it to myself.

So this is another reason there is often confusion between Fi and Ti preference. (Especially with some authorities really emphasizing the "express or not express feelings" definitions of Fe/Fi).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
187 Posts
Here is why people close to me don't get a satisfying answer they ask me how I feel:

Part of Fi is about always getting closer to the essence of something or a feeling, so it IN IT'S NATURE is always shifting and changing. I may feel like X about something, and an hour later I might feel completely different. So how can I give a fixed answer to my feeling that keeps changing with every moment, to something that isn't fixed?

Fe users have pretty fixed feelings it seems. Fe users would, in a situation where they believe they "should" be angry, they fire off this feeling they call "Anger" and shout it out: "I can't believe what you've done!! I am angry!!!" It is like they play the "role" of being angry, or the "role" of being happy. Whereas for me with Fi, I have noticed that--unlike many others--I rarely label my emotions. I feel a million different things, I don't label it as "anger" or "happy". I feel more a mixture of a lot of feelings, which depend on many things influencing at the same time.

Feelings are much more powerful and include a lot more things, deeper things that aren't as easily articulated for someone with Fi as their primary function. If you have Fi as primary function, it is controlling your being, so with no higher function to look at the feelings with, you can't really explain the feelings as well as someone with Fi as tertiary function for example. I hate to say it, but it is true that I can be controlled by my feelings and sometimes get really confused about what is really true, what I need to do etc...

As a last point: I have my own, subjective world that I would understand, but to another person would make no sense at all. So this is how it is: When someone asks me how I feel and I try to tell them, I feel that they would never understand. This I guess is the loneliness of Fi: you've got your own world, own beliefs and values, but it isn't often shared by anyone else, unlike Fe which is shared by the code of "the group". So nobody really understands you when you try to explain--it makes total sense in the world of the Fi user, but not usually by the other person. Plus, how I feel and why I feel a certain way is the most personal part of me, a big part of me, and I am very cautious not to open up to just anybody asking me how I feel. I feel vulnerable and uncertain when someone who I don't fully trust knows such personal things about me.

If I tried people wouldn't understand it anyway, they'd frown and give me some cheap advice that works for them--NOT for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,800 Posts
As an introverted function you basically would have to see inside a person internally in order to see what goes on in there. Sometimes its a hot mess, so confusing it takes lots of introspection for us to understand it, sort it, filter it. It would be like trying to explain how we feel our internal organs functioning. That may not be the best example, yet it feels that way.

Personally i can't articulate well verbally how i see my Fi, ( i can however explain how i use it ) There are common factors that we can all relate with, although it goes so much deeper than words can express. It feels abstract for me also, we can't find exact words to describe what an abstract feeling is, just as its difficult to put abstract Ni-Ne into words that makes perfect sense to everyone. As an Aux user of Fi, i can somewhat articulate it with other Fi users because i don't need to have a clear line, or concrete answer in order for them to grasp the concept. We both live in this bubble so they can understand and relate without much said verbally.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,382 Posts
And by comparison, as Ti dom, it looks like Fi, because I too cannot easily articulate why I like things. I'll be looking for some technical explanation and often there won't be any; because why we like things is a humane (personal/impersonal) subject, which is not as conscious. And with Fe as inferior, even if there is an objective reason, I might fear that others will think it's silly or whatever and keep it to myself.

So this is another reason there is often confusion between Fi and Ti preference. (Especially with some authorities really emphasizing the "express or not express feelings" definitions of Fe/Fi).
Based on the IXTPs I know, they are fine with articulating opinions and they tend to expect automatic feeling reactions from others and can be very rigid about this (at least about things that make sense to them, via dominant Ti - they are not the types that adapt their feelings to a wide audience though, since they go primarily by what makes sense to them, while high Fe types will act on the adaptive qualities of Fe, while letting what makes sense to them (Ti) take a back seat, especially Fe doms), but the nature of them are just more negative in nature (from the ones I know, they tend to have an easier time expressing negative feelings than positive ones - this goes for inferior Fi types also). I think for T types in general, knowing how to express positive feelings is a lot more difficult than knowing how to express negative feelings, since the lower F placement makes the feeling function more ego-dystonic to them, and thus, deals more in the realm of their insecurities than not. Yup, what you're describing would be you using T on F experiences - this really doesn't look like Fi though, because Fi types are the ones who tend to be the most in touch with why they feel the way they do about something, but they tend to be resistant to explaining it in technical ways (like, they feel that doing this doesn't do the truth of their feelings justice, since Fi is subjective feeling and something they would probably be very resistant to universalizing so that they can be technically universalized as some fundamental law of nature that everyone operates on (something Ti-ish) - they would probably feel dehumanized and like their personal feelings are no longer meaningful to their life, etc. I think this would apply to any introverted function in a sense (and dominant/demonic functions), where, for instance, dominant Ni would feel undermined if their personal intuitions are refuted by demonic Si as just being their own impression of the empirical (Si), rather than something that has a purpose to subvert this and seek meaning underlying impressions and feel like they can't be taken seriously, etc.). At least from my experiences with inferior Fe users, the nature of their F is more just like having generic opinions and expectations, than having a complex values judgement system of reasoning (unless it comes to avoiding negative feelings). It takes F to understand F, T to understand T, N to understand N, and S to understand S, I think.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
999 Posts
Based on the IXTPs I know, they are fine with articulating opinions and they tend to expect automatic feeling reactions from others and can be very rigid about this (at least about things that make sense to them, via dominant Ti - they are not the types that adapt their feelings to a wide audience though, since they go primarily by what makes sense to them...
At least from my experiences with inferior Fe users, the nature of their F is more just like having generic opinions and expectations.
As a Ti-dom, Fe-inferior, I can relate to this a bit. It's not *quite* that robotic though - my feelings are fluid to some extent - it's not like my Fe has a set script of how it's going to react to any given situation. But, I will say that there are certain "generic" opinions and expectations that I will be rigid about. For instance, if I see someone yelling at another person, speaking condescendingly to them (making them feel like crap, wielding their "power" just because they can), if I see someone hitting or getting physical with another person, if I see someone who is helpless (or isn't the type of person to stick up for themselves) being taken advantage of, if I see someone making another person feel bad in a group ("Well, we all showed up to Sarah's b-day party, why weren't YOU there?"), etc, it triggers some kind of weird combination of Ti/Fe that basically goes, "Look buddy, you're acting way out of line here and you need to stop acting like an idiot. Knock your crap off and start treating people better. How would you like it if I treated you this way? Not very much, right? Well, then maybe you should get your act together."

There are just certain behaviors/actions that cross an invisible line with me (the line is invisible and I only know *approximately* where that line is at any given time), but I definitely know when the line has been crossed and once it's been crossed, I will speak out.

Fi types, from my perspective anyways, you never really know where that line is - you don't know if they're mad, sad, happy, offended, oppressed, jubilant. Nothing. In terms of feelings, the other person really doesn't have much to go on - which can leave the Fe user feeling in the dark, even somewhat "alone" in a relationship setting. There's a lot of guesswork involved and, as a T-dom, I feel like I'm constantly guessing wrong with Fi. I just never know where I stand, I never know what they're feeling about me or about a given situation - even if you think the relationship is good, there's still a "void" that you can feel - a void that you can't really get closer to them even if you wanted. They'll only let you "in" so far, and it can begin to test the insecurities of an Fe user. Is the Fi user keeping secrets from me? All Fe wants to do is to make the other person happy, but with Fi, you never really know how to do that because they don't give you many clues or open dialogue about what those things are. You have to guess what will make them happy, which can make inferior Fe feel aimless and directionless. Left out in the cold so to speak.

Fe wants transparency, it wants to know what's going on. It wants to discuss things openly, and it needs feedback in regards to emotions and feelings. It wants to dialogue about such things and when Fi doesn't oblige, Fe feels "shut out" to an extent, which takes mature Fe to overcome. My Fe is still very much a work in progress, so maybe I'm more vulnerable to that. I've seen Te users say similar things about Ti too - that it's hard to "read" because it never says much.

I think extroverted function users often feel like they have to "pull teeth" in order to get the corresponding introverted function to "come out of its shell" and express itself more.

On the flip side, I think introverted function users often feel that the corresponding extroverted function is a bit "overdone". I know I feel this way about Te sometimes. I admire Te and it's ability to function so fluidly in its outer environment, but I also sometimes think that Te needs to "calm down" and relax a bit. I think Ni probably thinks similarly about Ne. Fi about Fe. And probably Si about Se as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
as simple as posible

its profund(in a way kinda bottled up in presure,concentrated) and it is almost like an intuition , it just is
 
1 - 20 of 142 Posts
Top