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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I personally dont think that i am, are you?
 
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Impossible, this cannot be..Who said this? I can't accept it. :)

Maybe they're projecting. I don't get the feeling you're close minded at all. Hugs <3
 

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I think I can be close minded. Just because once I get used to something, I don't really wanna change. I'm not aggressive and don't really like to try new things spontaneously unless someone suggested me to. I'm not stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas as long as I see the good side of it.


Other types might think we are close minded probably because we are.......conservative? introverted? I don't know. I'm not THAT conservative. But yes, I'm introverted.
 

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Each and every ISFJ I know is definitely closed-minded. This does not mean that all are, as I only know 5 or 6. This is also not necessarily a bad thing.

We always try to get one of my ISFJ friends to do fun (read "risky fun") stuff with us. She tends to use selective information and ignore everything that does not fit her confirmation bias. All we ever get is:

"That's Illegal!" (irrelevant if risk of getting caught is nil)

"I'll feel like crap in the morning" (not true)

"It kills brain cells" (not true)

"We'll get caught" (not true)

"We're not supposed to be here" (not true)

"That's wrong!" (relative, irrelevant)

"I won't like it" (no evidence)

My mother, also an ISFJ, is the exact same way. I'm not hating on yall, but I am saying that ISFJs are, in my experience, not wired to get along well with NFs or NTs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Impossible, this cannot be..Who said this? I can't accept it. :)

Maybe they're projecting. I don't get the feeling you're close minded at all. Hugs <3
LOL aww. Idk i think that we are considered "rule mongers" by being S but while i may form my own opinions it doesnt mean that i cant accept other people making their own decisions
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I think I can be close minded. Just because once I get used to something, I don't really wanna change.
i hate change too, mostly because its scary, there is little to base what could happen on since its new.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Each and every ISFJ I know is definitely closed-minded. This does not mean that all are, as I only know 5 or 6. This is also not necessarily a bad thing.

We always try to get one of my ISFJ friends to do fun (read "risky fun") stuff with us. She tends to use selective information and ignore everything that does not fit her confirmation bias. All we ever get is:

"That's Illegal!" (irrelevant if risk of getting caught is nil)

"I'll feel like crap in the morning" (not true)

"It kills brain cells" (not true)

"We'll get caught" (not true)

"We're not supposed to be here" (not true)

"That's wrong!" (relative, irrelevant)

"I won't like it" (no evidence)

My mother, also an ISFJ, is the exact same way. I'm not hating on yall, but I am saying that ISFJs are, in my experience, not wired to get along well with NFs or NTs.
well it sounds like u have some risky business going on there. I have been the wet blanket before when overly rambunctious friends made seriously risky decisions. I have joined them for some adventures but was definitely the only voice of reason at the time. in my defense i have never been to jail and both of those friends have.
 

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Personally I feel very open minded. It how we're bale to sympathize with pretty much anyone. Thing is, getting an ISFJ to do something against their morals is very tricky (and most likely impossible without some kind of pressure). That's not necessarily narrow mindedness.
That's being wimpy and staying out of potentially dangerous stuff. We may judge but we're absolutely not going to judge someone harshly most likely on the contrary.
 

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well it sounds like u have some risky business going on there. I have been the wet blanket before when overly rambunctious friends made seriously risky decisions. I have joined them for some adventures but was definitely the only voice of reason at the time. in my defense i have never been to jail and both of those friends have.
[sentimentality] Haha. I really like you guys. You all remind me of my mom. [/sentimentality]

No, we don't do all that much risky stuff. Just getting her to relax and have a drink is a task. Your definition of risky is a bit more tightly defined than that of many other types. In that, I agree with the poster before who said you all are more conservative.

With that, I'm going back to NT. I rarely get bored enough to invade you guys. =P
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
[sentimentality] Haha. I really like you guys. You all remind me of my mom. [/sentimentality]

No, we don't do all that much risky stuff. Just getting her to relax and have a drink is a task. Your definition of risky is a bit more tightly defined than that of many other types. In that, I agree with the poster before who said you all are more conservative.

With that, I'm going back to NT. I rarely get bored enough to invade you guys. =P
well dont feel like u cant visit
 
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The ISFJs I've known have come across as closed minded to me because they usually end up disagreeing with my ideas and dismissing them. I'm sure they think I'm too 'out there' sometimes.
 
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To the OP: I think that the term "closed-minded" gets thrown around a lot. Sure there are closed-minded people, but they're often the ones throwing the term around the most. :laughing:

Also it could be a J thing. J types tend to like things to be done the same way, assuming it works. Change generally pisses me off, unless I can see a clear need for change/why the change would be better. Change for the sake of change drives me fucking nuts! :angry:


[sentimentality] Haha. I really like you guys. You all remind me of my mom. [/sentimentality]

No, we don't do all that much risky stuff. Just getting her to relax and have a drink is a task. Your definition of risky is a bit more tightly defined than that of many other types. In that, I agree with the poster before who said you all are more conservative.

With that, I'm going back to NT. I rarely get bored enough to invade you guys. =P
Do you think that might be an age/maturity thing? My teen years were like a combination of Jackass, Basketball Diaries, and Kids. Between the lack of age/maturity and the abundance of various drugs in my system at any given time, a lot of my actions were completely reckless. Now that I'm older and no longer do drugs (or even drink), I'm a complete fucking killjoy. :laughing:

The interesting thing though is that I grew up relatively fast. Most things that college students do I was doing when I was 12 or 13, plus a whole ton of things that were much worse. Some of my peers were joining me, most weren't. Most were acting like how you describe your ISFJ friend. Yet now that I'm older and I no longer do any of these things, it is the people that used to tell me "Hey you shouldn't be doing this!" that I see in the paper getting arrested for the things they used to tell me not to do. And when I see them the shoe is on the other foot with me telling them not to do these things. :laughing:
 

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Also it could be a J thing. J types tend to like things to be done the same way, assuming it works. Change generally pisses me off, unless I can see a clear need for change/why the change would be better. Change for the sake of change drives me fucking nuts! :angry:
I completely agree with you. This could be a huge reason to why ISFJs are perceived as "closed-minded". I think that having the J makes us, ISFJ, want to be organized and build on what's already there in our minds. But, I think that S has a lot to do with it too. Because S relies on experience and practicality. If an idea is really "out there" and doesn't have any practicality in it, I don't even consider it. Maybe thats the cause of my lack of a creativity and imagination side....

Close-mindedness in activities: I'm kind of killjoy. A little bit of a stick-in-the-mud. I mean, I'm willing to have fun but, I think I don't have a variety of things that I am thrilled about doing that other people have in common. I don't really even do any sports... or know about sports... :dry: I have never and will never take any drugs or drink. I don't try to shoot down other's opinion of fun, when my roommate talks about how getting drunk is fun and makes you happy and all that, I say, "I'm glad you had a good time this weekend". But, I won't ever participate in those kinds of activities. Even if its fun. I'm a little boring. I can say that about myself. I try not to be close-minded to activities. I like roller coasters. I like to eat out, I like to sing and dance. I like to check out new places and travel. But, to act silly, random and loud has never appealed to me, personally. I don't know if other ISFJs can relate to this but, do any of you guys think you could be perceived as boring?
 
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I'm a little boring. I can say that about myself.
........to act silly, random and loud has never appealed to me, personally. I don't know if other ISFJs can relate to this but, do any of you guys think you could be perceived as boring?
Yes, yes and yes! I perceive myself as boring.
 

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It's interesting that you guys perceive yourself as boring and/or that others do. I'm told, time after time, that I'm the most interesting person a lot of my acquaintances know. I don't tend to spout off about everything I've ever done on a regular basis so when it comes out in conversation people get excited. I don't want to sound arrogant or anything, but you're only boring if you let yourself be boring :wink:

As to why others think we're closeminded, I think for the most part it's just stereotyping. They see descriptions that say 'traditional' 'resistant to change' 'likes rules' etc and assume that that is all we are. I don't let it bother me. I know I'm not, and if I'm going to be considered close minded just because I don't want to do illegal things or because I don't automatically agree with everyone I meet then that's the problem of those people :cool:
 

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To the OP: I think that the term "closed-minded" gets thrown around a lot. Sure there are closed-minded people, but they're often the ones throwing the term around the most. :laughing:

Also it could be a J thing. J types tend to like things to be done the same way, assuming it works. Change generally pisses me off, unless I can see a clear need for change/why the change would be better. Change for the sake of change drives me fucking nuts! :angry:




Do you think that might be an age/maturity thing? My teen years were like a combination of Jackass, Basketball Diaries, and Kids. Between the lack of age/maturity and the abundance of various drugs in my system at any given time, a lot of my actions were completely reckless. Now that I'm older and no longer do drugs (or even drink), I'm a complete fucking killjoy. :laughing:

The interesting thing though is that I grew up relatively fast. Most things that college students do I was doing when I was 12 or 13, plus a whole ton of things that were much worse. Some of my peers were joining me, most weren't. Most were acting like how you describe your ISFJ friend. Yet now that I'm older and I no longer do any of these things, it is the people that used to tell me "Hey you shouldn't be doing this!" that I see in the paper getting arrested for the things they used to tell me not to do. And when I see them the shoe is on the other foot with me telling them not to do these things. :laughing:
This is possible. However, I know a lot of people who never really "matured" (in the sense of becoming a buzzkill) that aren't in prison. lol
 

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It's interesting that you guys perceive yourself as boring and/or that others do. I'm told, time after time, that I'm the most interesting person a lot of my acquaintances know. I don't tend to spout off about everything I've ever done on a regular basis so when it comes out in conversation people get excited. I don't want to sound arrogant or anything, but you're only boring if you let yourself be boring :wink:
True. I'm not interesting in a conventional way. I certainly do not do illegal or extreme things. But I can make people laugh. People who get my humour say I'm witty and funny. I have a lot of trivia too. If I'm close to you, things are far from boring. But I do admit that among acquaintances and strangers, I'm can be boring, as I'm kind of shy among them.

As to why others think we're closeminded, I think for the most part it's just stereotyping. They see descriptions that say 'traditional' 'resistant to change' 'likes rules' etc and assume that that is all we are. I don't let it bother me. I know I'm not, and if I'm going to be considered close minded just because I don't want to do illegal things or because I don't automatically agree with everyone I meet then that's the problem of those people :cool:
Again, true. Some of my friends say I start off as unaccepting of views and "get better" over time. I told them I haven't changed a bit, it's just their perspective of me that's changed. I do not change for anyone except myself. As they get to know me, they know that there are more dimensions to me, then just the feminist or the straight-laced rule abiding kid.

There are many ways to have good fun without breaking the law or doing something harmful to yourself and others. I feel that people who do things which are extreme or illegal aren't looking hard enough to find fun in simple things, like hanging out with friends or catching a movie. It all seems boring, but it actually depends on how much imagination you've got. It's all about perspective. Things are only boring if you think they're boring.
 

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The problem with answering the question in the OP is that different people are going to view "closed-mindedness" as different things. An ISFJ might not view one of their behaviors as closed-minded whereas an INFP might view the same exact behavior as being closed-minded. A lot of it really is relative, and a lot of it is based on the specific topic or situation.


Due to our dominant Si, I think ISFJs (and ISTJs as well) are much more content with keeping things the same in their lives than other types. We prefer consistency and our most comfortable with it. This doesn't mean we don't like new ideas or experiences, but I don't think we actively seek them out as much as most other types do.


This the blessing and curse of Si. The great thing about it is that we can be so content with so much less than other types can be. The satisfaction we get out of little things can be pretty great. What I hate about it is that other types don't seem to understand this in us, and they view us as boring, or too rigid, or "closed-minded".

As with any issue involving type, I think the important thing is for different types to make an effort to understand one another. ISFJs in general should give new options a chance before shutting them down based on a first glance. ISFJs are often at our worst when we don't take our time to process a new idea before making a quick decision or judgment. If we patiently think through something before evaluating it, and give it a chance before shutting it down, then we're very likely to make decisions that benefit us and those around us.

On the flip side, I always feel it would be nice for other types to value the stability and commitment that we offer. The "rigidity" of ISFJs can also be viewed as reliability, loyalty and strength. In addition, sometimes I think other types are always so busy looking for something new that they don't stop to appreciate what they already have. I think they can learn from ISFJs to be thankful and satisfied with what life gives them rather than having a problem with their current circumstances.
 

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I'm still pretty new here, but my GOD, you guys sound so much like me...I guess the personality tests are pretty accurate, and I really am an ISFJ...

Also it could be a J thing. J types tend to like things to be done the same way, assuming it works. Change generally pisses me off, unless I can see a clear need for change/why the change would be better. Change for the sake of change drives me fucking nuts!
I like doing things the same way because it's familiar...if I have to change, it better be for a good reason, or a more effective way of doing something.


i hate change too, mostly because its scary, there is little to base what could happen on since its new.
Same as above...sometimes I try to get around my biases and experiment to break out of my confines, but it doesn't happen as often as I'd think.

... tends to use selective information and ignore everything that does not fit confirmation bias.
Remembering that I'm not into psychology, I would think maybe my confirmation bias made me write the opening blurb at the top... :)

I think I can be close minded. Just because once I get used to something, I don't really wanna change. I'm not aggressive and don't really like to try new things spontaneously unless someone suggested me to. I'm not stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas as long as I see the good side of it.

I'm not THAT conservative. But yes, I'm introverted.
I'm terribly non-spontaneous - I try to carefully and meticulously plan things out, especially if it's important, or haven't done it before/done it in a long time. When I get "caught" by having to come up with something...sometimes I can pull it off, but again, not as often as I'd like.

Politically, I'm a liberal - I can't stand conservative (read: Republican) rhetoric...I guess I'm somewhat conservative in my private life though, without ever truly thinking about it.

I think that having the J makes us, ISFJ, want to be organized and build on what's already there in our minds.
I'm definitely like this. I love organization (I thought it was just because I'm a total computer geek), but I absolutely take what's already in my mind and build from there.

Close-mindedness in activities: I'm kind of killjoy. A little bit of a stick-in-the-mud. I mean, I'm willing to have fun but, I think I don't have a variety of things that I am thrilled about doing that other people have in common.
A lot of people I've known want to go out to bars/nightclubs. That's not my scene at ALL. I don't drink (can't stand the taste of alcohol), definitely don't smoke (disgusting habit), etc.

If that labels me as "boring" then so be it - I'd rather be safe than sorry.
 

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Each and every ISFJ I know is definitely closed-minded. This does not mean that all are, as I only know 5 or 6. This is also not necessarily a bad thing.

We always try to get one of my ISFJ friends to do fun (read "risky fun") stuff with us. She tends to use selective information and ignore everything that does not fit her confirmation bias. All we ever get is:

"That's Illegal!" (irrelevant if risk of getting caught is nil)

"I'll feel like crap in the morning" (not true)

"It kills brain cells" (not true)

"We'll get caught" (not true)

"We're not supposed to be here" (not true)

"That's wrong!" (relative, irrelevant)

"I won't like it" (no evidence)

My mother, also an ISFJ, is the exact same way. I'm not hating on yall, but I am saying that ISFJs are, in my experience, not wired to get along well with NFs or NTs.

I think this is a good example of what I referred to in my last post, because I think I most likely would feel the same as your friend would. I have had similar conversations with other people (who tend to be extroverted thinking types in my experience). However, I don't think this really extends to the relationships ISFJs have with all NTs or NFs. I have an INFP friend who would probably respond very similarly to how I would in these situations, those his reasons that he would offer would probably be different than the ones you mentioned.

I think there are a lot of other things that come into play here, including E/I and just life experiences in general. I know you're only speaking from your own experience, but I don't think there's anything preventing ISFJs from getting along well with NTs and NFs in general.



While I can't speak for your friend, I can offer my explanation for why my own reaction would probably be similar to hers. I think it's definitely related to me being an ISFJ.

For me, I am a very cautious (or prudent) person because I don't like risking what I already have. If I have a choice between choosing to stick with what I've got (even though it's not optimal) or potentially losing it for the chance to improve my situation, I will almost always choose to stick with what I've got. That's because I know that it's real, I know that I have it, and I know it won't get worse. I find security and comfort in that.

Because of my dominant Si, my past experiences greatly affect how I view the world...I view the world through my own past. So, every time I make a new decision, I am adding that to the huge collection of experiences I already have. So every decision has a huge impact because I know it will etched in my experiences forever.

That makes me much less likely to risk a bad experience happening. It's not something that I'll be able to ignore once it's happened.


I get all kinds of satisfaction from following rules, having structure, and having everything in place. It always bothers me to break rules because it throws off this structure. That's probably part of the reason why your friend may have a problem with something being illegal and you don't.

However, I think the bigger issue is that you get a certain joy out of these experiences that your friend may very well not. I think the only thing that bothers me about your post is how you seem to disregard her statement of "I won't like it" because you don't see any evidence. Her experiences are very different than yours, and she may have personal evidence from her experiences that she may have either not shared with you or that you may not view as important.

Obviously I can't speak for your friend, but my ENTJ brother has tried to push me into things that I don't want to do, and my response has been similar. What always bothers me is that I never try to push him into things...I have a "live and let live" attitude. Of course, he probably wouldn't be bothered by me trying to push him, which is probably part of the reason why he so freely does it with me...but I think that's something that he hasn't ever been able to understand about me.

But it all goes back to the contentment of Si that I talked about earlier. I don't know if other types understand the joy that ISFJs get from what we already have because they just don't get that same joy.


The thing that bothers me so much is when others try to tell me that they know things about me that I don't. They think that pushing me into new things will automatically make me better or make life better for me. Oftentimes they are very wrong.


For me, there are times when it is good for me to go out of my comfort zone, and to get a new experience, and to gain something from it. However, I've found that these times work best in my life when I can take them slowly, test out the waters, and ease my way into them. Then they become a part of my life that can enrich it further. If I'm pushed into something too quickly, I will be miserable with it because it wasn't my decision. It was a decision made to please others.


So my question involving the situation you're describing is why you want your friend to get involved in these "risky fun" situations you're describing? These things may just not be enjoyable for her in the same way that they are for you. I think the best way to get an ISFJ to think about these things is to ask them about how they feel and to understand them rather than deciding what is best for them and ignoring their own feelings about it.

If they are truly unhappy without doing these activities, then if you ask them about that, eventually they will think about it so much that they will decide that they need to give it a try and make a change.

But otherwise, they will only be doing it to please you and will never enjoy it...because it's not their own.


So I guess that's my main point in all of this....that it's up to her to decide what's best for her, and you can't make that decision.



I know you're just describing your situation from your point of view and what logically makes sense to you. I am also glad that you mentioned that you didn't view this "closed-mindedness" as necessarily being a bad thing. However, I don't think closed-minded is a good word for a situation like this, because it has some negative connotations, at least from my point of view. I prefer words like cautious and prudent.



I think as long as you don't view her attitudes in a negative light, then that's ok. I can't tell sometimes with NTs when they're making judgments and when they're not. If you're merely describing a difference between you and her, and that you can respect her for being who she is without having a problem with it, then I think that's fine to make that observation. But if you're making a judgment on her actions based on your perception of it, then I think it's a problem because it's a lack of understanding.



I didn't mean for this to get so personal, it's just that it reminds me of a lot of similar situations in my own life.
 
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