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People who think their IQ makes them in any way better than anyone else are idiots. Also, they must be unaware that these standards were used for the evil purpose of eugenics and forced sterilization.
 

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I don't quite understand your question. I agree that high IQ doesn't make one person better than another and I doubt that it's valuable, but does that mean that they are completely useless in defining intelligence? These sound like two different discussions to me.
 

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People who think their IQ makes them in any way better than anyone else are idiots. Also, they must be unaware that these standards were used for the evil purpose of eugenics and forced sterilization.
Are you actually claiming that people who value IQ testing as a tool to measure intelligence are giving tacit credence to eugenics? I don't understand how you can possibly make a connection there. Might as well say we shouldn't be using computers because science and technology are responsible for the atom bomb.
 

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A higher IQ simply equates to greater potentiality for a higher cognitive capacity over those with lower IQ. However, one should understand the distinction between intellect and wisdom. Intellect is what you know, wisdom is how you apply what you know. I've seen prodigies in mathmatics who haven't a lick of sense in other matters and self proclaimed geniuses who couldn't defend their viewpoint in a debate to save their life.

On a side note - why do you consider eugenics to be evil?
 

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I'm not sure about your question on eugenics but I will address the other part:

I did some research on intelligence in college after I got my degree in psych. I think if you look at some tasks that require higher human intelligence, you see that processing speed and pattern recognition are key. If you think about an emergency physician having to make a quick diagnosis, a chess player having to make a move, or a physicist having to interpret the data from an experiment, you can see that pattern recognition and processing speed are quite important. We're surrounded by information, by stimuli, and often we have to make sense of loads of stimuli. If we have quick processing speed, we can go through more data and in a shorter time. If we have good pattern recognition, we can make better sense of this data.

The ER physician in question can process a lot of information (about patient's appearance and physical symptoms, history, current blood results and X rays, etc) in a short time, then using his pattern recognition narrow down the possibilities to only a few illnesses that are most likely given all the information available to him.

Having said all this, this particular type of intelligence - that is often associated with academics - is not the only type of intelligence. Other kinds of intelligence have been proposed (emotional, musical, bodily/motor...even spiritual) and are being studied. In addition, just because someone has lower intelligence of one kind or other does not make that person less or inferior in general. They may be less well suited to a particular career, or make less money, but I would not use those measures as defining the person's value.
 

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I do believe in IQ tests as an effective way to measure intelligence. Old-school intelligence, before everyone was "special their own way": Mathematical thinking and complex-reasoning skills. Cold, hard facts and exactness. Not everyone can deal with that.

People hate IQ tests because they make them feel stupid. It is what it is. Maybe you're not gifted at reasoning or pattern recognition, maybe you're not smart (for traditional standards), but who says you have to? You probably have other talents and skills, and that’s ok.
When an individual sucks at sports, he either accept it or work hard to succed. No one goes and invent some "multiple athletic talents theory" to make them feel less clumsy.

Those tests are mere tools to measure cognitive capacity. But they do happen to work. However, I agree: Being smarter does not make someone wiser or better than anyone (Often it's the opposite, it makes them egotistical and vile). Only experience and kindness can.
 

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People who think their IQ makes them in any way better than anyone else are idiots. Also, they must be unaware that these standards were used for the evil purpose of eugenics and forced sterilization.
Your thread title and the opening post are divergent.

Intelligence often makes vast and unaccountable errors in wisdom or moral behavior. It is an empirical part of wisdom that the inherent worthiness of any aspect of the multiverse, and specifically anyone, is equal. When a person refers to, '... in any way better than anyone else ...', this is exactly the type of worthiness they are referring to. Intelligence however, tries to convince us that some other aspect of a person may INSTEAD be used to judge their worthiness. Common errors include:

1) A worthy person is one that is smarter than other.
2) A worthy person is one that produces.
3) A worthy person is one that is needed by others.
4) A worthy person is one that is wise.
5) A worthy person is one that is good.
6) A worthy person is one that is rich or their worth is equal to their money and or standing in society.

Those are all errors. Everyone is inherently worthy. They belong. They are included and cannot be separated. Each person is no more worthy than any other part of the multiverse.

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But that is different from your title. Your title relates intelligence to pattern recognition and processing speed. These are in fact two very important facets of the whole picture of intelligence. The complexity of pattern matching and the speed of a person's thought are quantifying factors in the makeup of their intelligence. This of course has zero bearing on a person's worth.
 

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People who think their IQ makes them in any way better than anyone else are idiots. Also, they must be unaware that these standards were used for the evil purpose of eugenics and forced sterilization.
Arbitrary question, Arbitrary discussion.

Think about what you just asked and how "SJW" it is.

If it's any consolation' the finest metal in the world means nothing if it isnt made into a tool to be used.
 

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A higher IQ simply equates to greater potentiality for a higher cognitive capacity over those with lower IQ. However, one should understand the distinction between intellect and wisdom. Intellect is what you know, wisdom is how you apply what you know. I've seen prodigies in mathmatics who haven't a lick of sense in other matters and self proclaimed geniuses who couldn't defend their viewpoint in a debate to save their life.

On a side note - why do you consider eugenics to be evil?
noun
the science of improving a human population by controlled breeding to increase the occurrence of desirable heritable characteristics. Developed largely by Francis Galton as a method of improving the human race, it fell into disfavor only after the perversion of its doctrines by the Nazis.
It's definitely proved itself to be a funky and violent idea.
@Howard Hepburn I sort of hate the IQ tests as well and I've tested as gifted, and have benefited a great deal from the gifted programs I was in. I agree with the last statement of your post (at least about kindness really mattering), but your generalization that "people hate IQ tests because they make them feel stupid" made me chuckle. I hate IQ tests because I see how they're wrong every single day. I am constantly reminded of the sheer brilliance of every single person I encounter... We've had this conversation on another thread and found that my claim cannot be defended, but I troy believe we are all geniuses in our own way, and it's the fault of our current intelligence measurements that we cannot define or recognize the types of intelligence that some individuals possess.

On another note, I've seen how things like the Gifted program made people feel inferior. Before I was in the Gifted program, I felt like I was stupid. I remember I had a girl who was the lead in our 5th grade play tell me when I congratulated her on getting the part that "what does it matter? I'm not in Gifted, and you are" (and then she turned around, angrily). The valedictorian of my high school (who also happens to be my best friend) wasn't in Gifted, and it's just something we can't discuss because it makes him quite sad.

Of course that isn't a solid reason to hate IQ measurement, but it's enough for me as an Fe-dom.
 

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I agree with Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences on this one.

The reason it's largely linguistic and logical/mathematical intelligence which is tested for, is because these two are considered most desired in a lot of work areas. It's not much of a coincidence they're also the only two areas tested on the SATs. The logical/mathematical intelligence portion also tends to include things like creative problem-solving, logical reasoning, investigation of new ideas. They're definitely traits that are helpful in many different areas.

But say you want to be an architect and lack spatial intelligence. A composer or conductor and lack musical intelligence. A sports player and lack kinesthetic intelligence.

I guess they've isolated linguistic and logical/mathematical intelligence because they seem to apply well to a whole variety of tasks and different work environments. But to treat them as sole factors in determining intelligence is really quite a pity. There have been many people in the past that have been admired for their intelligence without necessarily having those two shine.
 

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OP may offer something.

Even though I am a "thinker" type I'm aware that evaluative "feeler function" thinking, is so far, something a computer can't do for us. Processing speed does not have to be human anymore. The world is changing. But what should we test for instead?
 

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Well, pattern recognition is intelligence because it's useful, really. By being able to see patterns you can see the next thing in the pattern, as well as the "Formula" of the pattern. Now imagine that pattern is a fighting style, or the behavior of atoms.

Having a high processing speed is similarly useful, though as someone with low processing speed neither this nor pattern recognition are everything. Divergent thinking also needs to be analyzed, and people with acalcula exist and do fine with spatial things all the time.
 

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People who think their IQ makes them in any way better than anyone else are idiots.
I've said this time and time again when people try to impress me with their internet IQ test results (usually 20-30 points higher than accredited tests) THen they feel dumb when I tell them I have a documented IQ of 142. Pattern recognition and problem solving is what is measured by a standard IQ test. It is not a complete measure of a persons mental worth. For instance, I have a really bad memory and power reading skills due to dyslexia.
 

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I have never been able to really grasp standardized education with the ease of my peers.

And I know that if theres ever a draft for mathathon I will surely die.

Pretty sure my wit, adaptation, innovation, ability to learn skills, having lived and learned and grown through wisdom, and ability to articulate serve as being more well rounded then some geniuses. (actually I have alot of useless trivia knowledge I have no idea why I can quote when a war took place or a movie came out but that is generally useless)

Would I like if how standardized intelligence is measured came more natural to me of course. Its no fun feeling like an idiot while doing a test.

That said its quite amazing how I am able to throw a book out or manual, and apply skill thru knowledge that I dont even quite understand that I have. There are many brilliant people that write manuals and data and have no clue how the hell to actually even perform a task or subject they speculate on.

I can get engrossed in a subject yet fail the test. I dont usually grasp the way things are relayed in that form. I dont think it means I am not intelligent.

I guess so many people that have credited me to be intelligent must have lied (sounds like a weird thing to lie about I know I wouldnt lie to someone like that). They weren't seeing me fail a test or get answers wrong in a classroom setting they were seeing me problem solve in real application or perform a task. I guess that does not count to some of you?

Anyways sounds very intellectually restricting for so called intellectuals to only presume their sort of grasp and intelligence is the only one that counts. I like to think myself diverse enough to be able to consider many views and take in knowledge even if its not in the same form as those with high IQs.

I would also like to point out that I have a great capacity for pattern recognition in the actual atmosphere like work or living or people. I dont in terms of the theory and models they are like unsolveable puzzles for me. I feel dyslexic looking at them.
 

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You really should stop making these super presumptuous/provocative threads. I don't think most people do consider these two things to be the only forms of intelligence (they're not even the only forms of intelligence evaluated on many IQ tests in the first place). I would agree with you that it's annoying how IQ tests are now often used as dick measuring contests, but the reality is that most people who brag about these scores here and elsewhere haven't actually taken anything close to legitimate tests because they're not typically given unless you're failing in school or applying for a gifted person's program. Kind of ironic that supposedly 'gifted' people can't see the statistical issue that 90% of test takers are getting 130+ scores on some of these tests lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
OP is just mad that he has a low iq.
I have an IQ of 143 with a processing speed of 86. That's why I call bullshit on these tests. That shouldn't be possible should it?


And also, the person earlier in the thread trying to defend eugenics, I don't know how someone could look at the history of eugenics and defend it. It's evil.
 
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