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Apparently, it's a stereotype, and it makes no sense to me. I understand how different personality types have different strengths and weaknesses, but how can you blame a person's level of intelligence on their personality? I think anyone could be a genius; it just depends on how hard they work and their willingness to learn. My mother, brother, and best friend are all ESFJs, and they are all very bright, intelligent people. I also know of an ESFJ who graduated valedictorian in a class of over 400.

Yes, when they get emotional or stressed, they don't really use logic or reasoning, but that's just because they are emotional. They aren't like that on a regular basis. This whole thing just confuses me.
 

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Well...like you said, it's stereotype.
Also I think a lot very negative manifestations of people are automatically assumed to be ESFJ.
For example, there is a person I have a huge problem with.
She's too emotional with her logic and can't take criticism at all. (seems like an unbalanced F) (This part is probably the MAJOR stereotype. I'm sure thinkers get like this too.)
She likes to tell people what to do and freaks out when we don't follow her plans. (unbalanced J)
If you decide not to do her idea, she takes it very personally and has a hard time bouncing back. Not good at adapting once she expects a situation to go a certain way (FJ?)
She needs to have attention all the time and wants everyone to talk to her (comes off E)
Very focused on her wants HERE AND NOW. Doesn't waste time philosophizing. Seems to have a hard time imagining themselves in another perspective (Sounds S. The last line is an S stereotype. They can do that...I don't think that has anything to do with N/S.)

Now I have NO idea if she really is an ESFJ. But think about the amount of people out there like and how much they piss off everyone else around them. If you go by my same line of reasoning, she sounds like she would be.
A lot of different personality types caught up in their problems can probably come off this way.

Does that make sense??? I've read the nice descriptions of ESFJ and it sounds night and day. Warm, caring, helpful, practical vs the above.

Edit: Realized I didn't directly answer your question.
The problem is people like that come off like toddlers. They expect everything to be their way and refuse to provide logical (at least to my satisfaction) evidence for it.
 

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It's funny, because I often get typed as "ENFP" by others, because I couldn't possibly be the "horrible, manipulative ESFJ". lol. I also have a huge adventurous side, love to read, find debates stimulating and have straight A's in school.

Because of this I come across as "N". I'm honestly not sure of why I'm considered a P as well, but it could possibly be because ENFP's are typed as adventurous, extraverted nerds.

While I am borderline S and J I still find it amusing every time I have to explain to someone that I'm an ESFJ... and even after years of knowing me for a minute they'll kind of wince and start backing away.... it's a stereotype that really should be readjusted. Not all of us are evil. =P

I'm even close friends with a couple of INTJ's "gasp"... oh horror of horrors! ;)
 

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The issue is they come across online as quick.

And yeah, it's the stupid in others who reaches this conclusion that they lack stimulating mindsets. They no longer see what is Fe and Si and Ne and Ti which is reversed super genius Einstein or some shit.
 

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This is probably the most annoying ESFJ stereotype. I've seen it perpetuated the most by NT types (especially here on PerCafe, where you guys seem to be the majority) who describe us as close-minded and unable to use logical reasoning. We also tend to be portrayed as gossips, more interested in other people's lives than in higher intellectual pursuits. Like others have pointed out here, it's the people who believe this of all ESFJs who are the dumb ones. I'm an ESFJ who was valedictorian of my 400+ person high school class and have spent most of my academic career in the sciences (not where most people would think to find ESFJs). There are tons of ESFJs in medical school; the ones I know are very smart and just as capable as their other-type classmates. I worked under an ESFJ scientist for many years who was one of the smartest people I've ever known. Yeah, there are dumb ESFJs, but you're going to find some stupid in every type.

Also, @gurlygurl, I get typed as ENFP a lot too! As much as I like ENFPs, I'm not one of them, and it's sad that some people don't realize that ESFJs are just as awesome. I'll never understand why emotional ENFPs are "cute, vivacious, and fun", while emotional ESFJs are "controlling, manipulative, and stupid".
 

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ESFPs are also seen as stupid. It is a ridiculous stereotype. I don't know where the idea that ESFPs and ESFJs are stupid came from, but it truly makes no sense to say that everyone with a particular personality type is stupid, while everyone with another personality type is smart. I'd say more but I'm just shaking my head at the nonsense of it all.
 

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It's funny, because I often get typed as "ENFP" by others, because I couldn't possibly be the "horrible, manipulative ESFJ". lol. I also have a huge adventurous side, love to read, find debates stimulating and have straight A's in school.

Because of this I come across as "N". I'm honestly not sure of why I'm considered a P as well, but it could possibly be because ENFP's are typed as adventurous, extraverted nerds.

While I am borderline S and J I still find it amusing every time I have to explain to someone that I'm an ESFJ... and even after years of knowing me for a minute they'll kind of wince and start backing away.... it's a stereotype that really should be readjusted. Not all of us are evil. =P

I'm even close friends with a couple of INTJ's "gasp"... oh horror of horrors! ;)
Since I hang out in the ESFJ forum so much, we can be friends :tongue:... well, you keep being mistaken for ENFP, because there is absolutely no way that you could be a "horrible, manipulative ESFJ".

I still don't get this stereotype at all. I'm so confused by this board and apparently the society at large right now regarding that.

Anyways, now I'm a adventurous, extroverted nerd. Okay, I'm a designer/programmer (serious, went for a straight programming diploma, so I guess it can apply)... and I do hiking/backcountry backpacking, swimming and running. :proud: I started in print work a few years ago and meandered through a few things since then (see programming, etc)


I also can't decide on a career. :blushed: Maybe you're luckier than I am?

I guess because you're not a "hard" SJ they figure since you're not evil you're an ENFP... which is interesting and yet sad. :sad:
 

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Also, @gurlygurl, I get typed as ENFP a lot too! As much as I like ENFPs, I'm not one of them, and it's sad that some people don't realize that ESFJs are just as awesome. I'll never understand why emotional ENFPs are "cute, vivacious, and fun", while emotional ESFJs are "controlling, manipulative, and stupid".
I am seen as cute, but I'm also seen as stupid, too. It's like I cannot think at all for analysis purposes or anything whatsoever. Which I hate quite a bit actually.
 

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I know an ESFJ. I admire her Fe capabilities.

I also seem to be the only one around capable of injecting calm rationalism into her, when she's having an obsessive psycho outburst about some abstract memory. I definitely feel that, and know how to deal with it.
 

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I've never heard of such a thing. Why ask the question when all it does is perpetuate the stereotype?
Really? It's quite a common thought expressed around PerCafe. People are constantly complaining about how difficult and frustrating it is to argue with "those thick-headed ESFJs". That or they portray us as only interested in shallow topics. I think it's important to bring up this question because it challenges these commonly held beliefs and might help people see that we're more than just the sum of our negative traits. Every time I venture out into different threads, I'm surprised by the anti-ESFJ sentiment I encounter there and end up coming back here where we can discuss why it is most of PerCafe dislikes us so much.
 

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Because they are.

I'm just messing. Rationality isn't their strong point, though. Due to the gregarious vitality of ESFJs, it can appear that they are more the creative and practical than cerebral, which for the most part is a truth, but I don't see that as a negative, and I wouldn't go so far as to say they lacked intellect; my best friend is an ESFJ and is exceptional academically, but he stands testament to the generalization that reason can be their Achilles' heel.
 

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Most of the ESFJs I have met are of average intelligence and I am in good terms with them. There's one exceptional ESFJ who's quite intelligent with her studies and is very hardworking, but she has very poor EQ. She enjoys bringing me down with snide remarks and occasionally instigates her friends to join her in bashing me without them realising. I think that she has little respect for people who are younger than her. She's friendly with others (except me), but is not a very helpful person.

Most well-balanced ESFJs have good EQ and average IQ. They are not stupid, it's just that they place more importance on emotions and the welfare of others when making decisions.
 

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Because they are.

I'm just messing. Rationality isn't their strong point, though. Due to the gregarious vitality of ESFJs, it can appear that they are more the creative and practical than cerebral, which for the most part is a truth, but I don't see that as a negative, and I wouldn't go so far as to say they lacked intellect; my best friend is an ESFJ and is exceptional academically, but he stands testament to the generalization that reason can be their Achilles' heel.
So do you think that every type that has thinking as his\her repressed function is stupid? In that case also every person that belongs to ENFJ, INFP and ISFP should be stupid as every ESFJ...
 

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Most of the ESFJs I have met are of average intelligence and I am in good terms with them. There's one exceptional ESFJ who's quite intelligent with her studies and is very hardworking, but she has very poor EQ. She enjoys bringing me down with snide remarks and occasionally instigates her friends to join her in bashing me without them realising. I think that she has little respect for people who are younger than her. She's friendly with others (except me), but is not a very helpful person.

Most well-balanced ESFJs have good EQ and average IQ. They are not stupid, it's just that they place more importance on emotions and the welfare of others when making decisions.
Is there necessarily an inverse relationship between EQ and IQ though? I've met people who have certainly been high in both. Also, is there any evidence that ESFJs have average IQ or is that just an observation by you?
 

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So do you think that every type that has thinking as his\her repressed function is stupid? In that case also every person that belongs to ENFJ, INFP and ISFP should be stupid as every ESFJ...
I don't remember hinting at that. I explained why the stereotype was so prevalent, I didn't justify it.
Stupidity isn't necessarily irrationality. And irrational as some SFs are, intelligence remains a wildly ranged variable.
 
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