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Avril has expressed limited agreement to both of us, actually, and revoked her claim that there isn't the slightest relation between MBTI types and general intelligence. So really, everyone and everything is objectively on my side, or in Avril's case probably more so.
You preserve your opinions in the face of an unrebuked refutation, whilst arguing that ESFJs are just as intelligent and xNTx, and expect me to respect your ignorance and others to side with it?
On the contrary of you? Leaving apart your arrogance and pride? Sort out your phrasing, you're making it even harder to receive your bull.

INTJs have several weaknesses and several strengths, as do all types. Stop denying that and embrace what is evidently the rules and the exceptions.
No, it's not impossible, at all. Please, try and find me a callous, cold-blooded INFJ.
And what I have tried to say for all the time??? That MTBI types have nothing to do with intelligence. So there could be more NTs smarter than SF or there could be the contrary, even if maybe NTs are easier to be stronger in logical points while SFs are easier to be stronger on emotional intelligence.
I think that you're not able to get what I'm telling you from hours. Everyone and everything? Who and what exactly?
I don't want to loose other time with a person like you, that at the end turn again what I wrote to offend me another time.
So I'm not going to answer more to your illogical and arrogant points.
P.S= I know that you are going to turn again these attributes that I fit to you. So cut back you words.
 

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And what I have tried to say for all the time??? That MTBI types have nothing to do with intelligence. So there could be more NTs smarter than SF or there could be the contrary, even if maybe NTs are easier to be stronger in logical points while SFs are easier to be stronger on emotional intelligence.
I think that you're not able to get what I'm telling you from hours. Everyone and everything? Who and what exactly?
I don't want to loose other time with a person like you, that at the end turn again what I wrote to offend me another time.
So I'm not going to answer more to your illogical and arrogant points.
P.S= I know that you are going to turn again these attributes that I fit to you. So cut back you words.
What? Again, speak English. You've a decent vocabulary, you should be able to phrase clearly. Rephrase.
My lord. I'm done with constantly reiterating, so I'll be repeating my words.
Uhm, that's very correlative. If it's easier to be intelligent, you most likely will be more intelligent. If everyone had the brain of Einstein, the capability to reach that level of intelligence, most of us would be.
Get that into your head.
Dizzy, Avril for the most part, logic, indicatives, truisms, what not?
Don't call my argument illogical if you can't support the accusation. It doesn't offend me, it just makes you more of an idiot.
Because you can predict my points I shouldn't present them? :rolleyes:
G'bye.
 

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What? Again, speak English. You've a decent vocabulary, you should be able to phrase clearly. Rephrase.
My lord. I'm done with constantly reiterating, so I'll be repeating my words.

Get that into your head.
Dizzy, Avril for the most part, logic, indicatives, truisms, what not?
Don't call my argument illogical if you can't support the accusation. It doesn't offend me, it just makes you more of an idiot.
Because you can predict my points I shouldn't present them? :rolleyes:
G'bye.
No, I'm tired too of repeating myself, I see that you want have reason to every cost and more of that you want denigrate others in order to put yourself higher. Well if a person and a half make everyone, it would be not difficult to find some other persons to agree with me, but I don't want loose other time in an aimless debate like that.
Thank you for the appellation of idiot, it affirms again your respect for others and your intelligence that I can see now is truly consolidated. -.-'
Luckily every NT is different from the other as every type so I'm and will able to find other human and interesting persons that belongs to this type.
 

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No, I'm tired too of repeating myself, I see that you want have reason to every cost and more of that you want denigrate others in order to put yourself higher. Well if a person and a half make everyone, it would be not difficult to find some other persons to agree with me, but I don't want loose other time in an aimless debate like that.
Thank you for the appellation of idiot, it affirms again your respect for others and your intelligence that I can see now is truly consolidated. -.-'
Luckily every NT is different from the other as every type so I'm and will able to find other human and interesting persons that belongs to this type.
I want have reason? Seriously, wtf?
Again with the unsupported accusations. Please explain how this is my only PerC debate and I've gotten along just fine with those who can comprehend basic principles.
Everyone that has manifested themselves in this conversation. Again and again I'm having to elaborate on truisms.
Demonstrate your claim. That wouldn't be debating but presenting, so you're stripped of your pretext.

You're clearly not a skilled linguistic, so I'll educate you. When someone insults someone else, it's to defame that person, to explain contempt for them, not to promote yourself. Got it? Of course not.
 

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I want have reason? Seriously, wtf?
Again with the unsupported accusations. Please explain how this is my only PerC debate and I've gotten along just fine with those who can comprehend basic principles.
Everyone that has manifested themselves in this conversation. Again and again I'm having to elaborate on truisms.
Demonstrate your claim. That wouldn't be debating but presenting, so you're stripped of your pretext.

You're clearly not a skilled linguistic, so I'll educate you. When someone insults someone else, it's to defame that person, to explain contempt for them, not to promote yourself. Got it? Of course not.
Emm, it's pretty obviously that that's your first fight here, you're a newby!
Compliment for your truisms and for showing me the basic principles of MTBI. No way that I demonstrate my claim. I told you it a million times.
Oh thank you for your lesson, mister know it all! Maybe you're not able to get sarcasm??
You're ridiculous. I have not other words for you. No matter what you're going to answer me. Now it's me that says "I'm done with you", but, on the contrary of you, I tried to do everything to respect you.
 

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Emm, it's pretty obviously that that's your first fight here, you're a newby!
Compliment for your truisms and for showing me the basic principles of MTBI. No way that I demonstrate my claim. I told you it a million times.
Oh thank you for your lesson, mister know it all! Maybe you're not able to get sarcasm??
You're ridiculous. I have not other words for you. No matter what you're going to answer me. Now it's me that says "I'm done with you", but, on the contrary of you, I tried to do everything to respect you.
That doesn't dismiss the observance that I haven't even been confronted yet. For 80 posts, you'd expect a good few from someone with a superiority complex.
What does speaking a claim have any relevance to demonstrating it? Demonstrating is DOING. It's empirical.
Maybe you're not able to use it, seen as there was no justification for intending sarcasm, you'd be arguing yourself. But I'll forgive myself for not being able to interpret unintelligible blather as it was supposedly intended.
Oh, you mean like, brandishing inevidenced accusations? That sure is respectable. But supported, objective criticism and insult, that's just pathetic of me.
THAT was sarcasm, by the way. Absorb.
 

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That doesn't dismiss the observance that I haven't even been confronted yet. For 80 posts, you'd expect a good few from someone with a superiority complex.
What does speaking a claim have any relevance to demonstrating it? Demonstrating is DOING. It's empirical.
Maybe you're not able to use it, seen as there was no justification for intending sarcasm, you'd be arguing yourself. But I'll forgive myself for not being able to interpret unintelligible blather as it was supposedly intended.
Oh, you mean like, brandishing inevidenced accusations? That sure is respectable. But supported, objective criticism and insult, that's just pathetic of me.
THAT was sarcasm, by the way. Absorb.
Fortunately that the others with their answers to you, had helped you to psychoanalyzed yourself! In that way you can stay in peace and not worry about a probable superiority complex problem.
And luckily I found you to help me to understand how I demonstrate something and how I do sarcasm! I will never grateful to you enough for all that :crying:!
 

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Fortunately that the others with their answers to you, had helped you to psychoanalyzed yourself! In that way you can stay in peace and not worry about a probable superiority complex problem.
And luckily I found you to help me to understand how I demonstrate something and how I do sarcasm! I will never grateful to you enough for all that :crying:!
Uhm, not one person has stood in your support.

That's more like it! So you can learn...
 

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Uhm, not one person has stood in your support.

That's more like it! So you can learn...
In fact I don't give you any support.
Oh yes, please teach me more! But please let's respite these lessons to another time, because now I have to prepare myself to go to sleep. Good night my teacher!
 

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In fact I don't give you any support.
Oh yes, please teach me more! But please let's respite these lessons to another time, because now I have to prepare myself to go to sleep. Good night my teacher!
What? You've been arguing me the whole time, why would I have reason to think you support me? Just, what?

Meh, not as good as before, but still works.
 

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You won't likely find that stereotype outside of internet typology communities. The idea that whatever type is less intelligent is perpetuated by inexperienced socially awkward people who think they're NTs, and who rest on the laurels of the stereotype of NTs being supremely intelligent. There are dumb NTs. There are smart SJs. Intelligence has nothing to do with type, but people who cling to stereotypes for validation will claim otherwise.
 

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Really? It's quite a common thought expressed around PerCafe. People are constantly complaining about how difficult and frustrating it is to argue with "those thick-headed ESFJs". That or they portray us as only interested in shallow topics. I think it's important to bring up this question because it challenges these commonly held beliefs and might help people see that we're more than just the sum of our negative traits. Every time I venture out into different threads, I'm surprised by the anti-ESFJ sentiment I encounter there and end up coming back here where we can discuss why it is most of PerCafe dislikes us so much.

I'm guessing it's confirmation bias. When I started driving a Honda, I noticed a lot more Hondas on the road. When I started driving a Mitsubishi, I started noticing a lot more Mitsubishis. If one looks for criticism about their type, they are likely to find it. There's plenty of it out there for every type.

I don't care what type a person is. Type isn't all that they are. Anyone who holds a person's type against them does both of them a disservice.
 

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I'm guessing it's confirmation bias. When I started driving a Honda, I noticed a lot more Hondas on the road. When I started driving a Mitsubishi, I started noticing a lot more Mitsubishis. If one looks for criticism about their type, they are likely to find it. There's plenty of it out there for every type.

I don't care what type a person is. Type isn't all that they are. Anyone who holds a person's type against them does both of them a disservice.

Perhaps you're just a trendsetter in the automotive world. :wink:
 

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You're not fathoming my proportions. It's a rule. A norm. A majority. A trend. A pattern. You could have a genius level SF, but I would expect it more of NTs.
They are more linked to intelligence than the other functions. You can't deny that. That's what makes it the rule and not the exception. SFs are generally more practical, NTs more cerebral. If you're going to argue this, do so with facts. Thinking especially is a far more cerebral function, how can't you see that?
Demographics from The Personality Questionnaire

This is voluntary data so is probably suspect, but for fun lets pretend it is accurate.

ESFJ make an average income of 74,800, INTP makes an average income of 64,872. Income is highly correlated to intelligence..

Education levels between INTP and ESFJ are actually comparable.

without std deviations and total populations you can really make any conclusions, but it is entertaining nonetheless.
 

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Demographics from The Personality Questionnaire

This is voluntary data so is probably suspect, but for fun lets pretend it is accurate.

ESFJ make an average income of 74,800, INTP makes an average income of 64,872. Income is highly correlated to intelligence..

Education levels between INTP and ESFJ are actually comparable.

without std deviations and total populations you can really make any conclusions, but it is entertaining nonetheless.
When we debate, we don't do it for fun.

LOL how in the world is income correlative to intelligence? Sure, it requires some brain work to become a lawyer, does it as much an accountant, police officer or housing agent? Intelligence is not always the dictating factor. I've been told by bank executives that qualifications come after character traits and experience.

And then there's a matter of preference. I'd much rather teach at a state secondary school than become a doctor or a CEO. Most high-salary jobs require traits an ESFJ will possess; confidence, determination, aggression even if necessary. As intellectually taxing as it is, a philosophy degree, however, won't usually get you far up the ladder.

In the modern era, a huge capability for creativity is far more valuable than intelligence, which is, and understandably so, not now as necessary for the top of the hierarchy jobs. It probably wouldn't have taken a science major to conjure up Harry Potter, but it sure filled J.K Rowling's pockets.

Education does not determine intelligence. It is a factor, nothing more, nothing less. Education equips you with knowledge much more than it does intelligence; intelligence is the ability to acquire that knowledge.
 

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When we debate, we don't do it for fun.

LOL how in the world is income correlative to intelligence? Sure, it requires some brain work to become a lawyer, does it as much an accountant, police officer or housing agent? Intelligence is not always the dictating factor. I've been told by bank executives that qualifications come after character traits and experience.

And then there's a matter of preference. I'd much rather teach at a state secondary school than become a doctor or a CEO. Most high-salary jobs require traits an ESFJ will possess; confidence, determination, aggression even if necessary. As intellectually taxing as it is, a philosophy degree, however, won't usually get you far up the ladder.

In the modern era, a huge capability for creativity is far more valuable than intelligence, which is, and understandably so, not now as necessary for the top of the hierarchy jobs. It probably wouldn't have taken a science major to conjure up Harry Potter, but it sure filled J.K Rowling's pockets.

Education does not determine intelligence. It is a factor, nothing more, nothing less. Education equips you with knowledge much more than it does intelligence; intelligence is the ability to acquire that knowledge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Income

IncomeWhile it has been suggested that "in economic terms it appears that the IQ score measures something with decreasing marginal value. It is important to have enough of it, but having lots and lots does not buy you that much.",[SUP][85][/SUP][SUP][86][/SUP] large scale longitudinal studies indicate an increase in IQ translates into an increase in performance at all levels of IQ: i.e., that ability and job performance are monotonically linked at all IQ levels.[SUP][87][/SUP] Charles Murray, coauthor of The Bell Curve, found that IQ has a substantial effect on income independently of family background.[SUP][88][/SUP]
The link from IQ to wealth is much less strong that than from IQ to job performance. Some studies indicate that IQ is unrelated to net worth.[SUP][89][/SUP][SUP][90][/SUP]
The American Psychological Association's 1995 report Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns stated that IQ scores accounted for (explained variance) about quarter of the social status variance and one-sixth of the income variance. Statistical controls for parental SES eliminate about a quarter of this predictive power. Psychometric intelligence appears as only one of a great many factors that influence social outcomes.[SUP][39][/SUP]
Some studies claim that IQ only accounts for (explains) a sixth of the variation in income because many studies are based on young adults, many of whom have not yet reached their peak earning capacity, or even their education. On pg 568 of The g Factor, Arthur Jensen claims that although the correlation between IQ and income averages a moderate 0.4 (one sixth or 16% of the variance), the relationship increases with age, and peaks at middle age when people have reached their maximum career potential. In the book, A Question of Intelligence, Daniel Seligman cites an IQ income correlation of 0.5 (25% of the variance).
A 2002 study[SUP][91][/SUP] further examined the impact of non-IQ factors on income and concluded that an individual's location, inherited wealth, race, and schooling are more important as factors in determining income than IQ.
 
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