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It suddenly just dawned upon me of one possibility of why INFPs often feel like being 'outcasted' (and btw, this doesn't apply only to INFP, it can also apply perhaps generally to all the 'N' / Intuitives, or the 'gifted', 'talented', and/or 'genius' groups/type of people, etc..) :

This might actually seems pretty obvious, but it's good for me to perhaps re-state it again:
it's simply because our world/most people in this world, and the society doesn't always need DEEP things, and thus, DEEP people/individuals, or analysis, etc etc!

I think this is what have happened with almost ALL great Thinkers, Philosophers, futurists, etc thorough human's history, if you really read, research, and pay attention to it.

The world/society has always, almost always at first rejected their ideas, 'deep' or 'breakthrough' thinking, etc.

Since we've learned about MBTI, it is the fact that we live in a world/society full of "SJ" type (and it's actually with quite good reasons too..).

But, I think what we really have to remember often, and perhaps act as an Inspiration for us the 'deep outcast',
is that, as Steve Jobs himself said: that often in fact makes us a PIONEER , even a 'future-starter' , for this world, and among this majority 'conventional' society & people all around us daily!

It's just that all we need to have (and do) is be brave, have a little more courage,
and know our place,
that we're not alone,
and that we're actually NEEDED,
maybe not in this generation, but perhaps we can set a good and better things for the NEXT generations after us!

'Deep' people often think more in futuristic terms, anyway.
So don't get easily discouraged by your present conditions.
Keep moving forward anyway, with all your brilliant (and 'deep') ideas, inspirations, etc,
contribute to society & this world, for the better FUTURE ! :)
 

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It's simple really: a pioneer who is first introducing a new idea is threatening the old and conventional way of thinking, making, or doing said thing. It's threatening to kill everything they have made, the way they think, the way they do and possibly even their self value. When this happens, the 'old guard' will no doubt not want their way of life being threatenend, and will go through any means of stopping this new ideology, product, method or whatever it is to keep their way of life living on.

Baseball isn't my thing but Moneyball demonstrates this well.

It's a sad fact of life, after all, many people when they first encounter something new generally get scared. I believe in a balance of innovation and tradition. Extremes of both are not good.
 

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I don't know much about the specific pyscology theory behind the personality types, but I think you have a good point there niki. I have lost count of how many times I have had people say to me "Öh ok, well that's a bit too deep for me..." - these people being close friends too. It does feel like people don't even try and you're right it is because they have no point of reference to try (they don't understand).

I also like your comparison between INFPs and Pioneers however the only additional thought I want to add is this; How do we make sure that INFPs are recognised and provided with the right support to be Pioneers. How do we help them understand their potential for greatness? As many of those real life experiences we've all had tend to leave us feeling unqualified to take up the cause.
 

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I agree with your assessment of others' dismissal of the depth that we feel.


However, I don't like to think of myself as a a member of the "pioneer" & genius" type that will "lead the world to a better future". Though I'm positive that's not how you meant it, that strikes a bit too close to supremacism for me to be entirely comfortable with it.
 

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I remember discussing with my friend something about idealism and realism..She made an inaccurate, vague dichotomy.. She said to me before,'' You should be (*inserts percentage*) idealist and at least (*inserts percentage*) realist, and think in a more mature way or one day it may hurt you'' -__- Which wasn't even feasible advice to begin with.

The thing is, in today's world, even systems or parts of society that are considered 'realistic' 'about to get me somewhere' have social ideals and collective hopes surrounding them. An entire separation, an established dichotomy - impossible.

And also it is not as simple as it may sound. What you consider not to be deep, for example superficial analyses and systems some of them may not seem superficial, but may be the product of deeper thinking. For example, fashion may be considered superficial and understandably so because of the constant messages we are bombarded from the Western media. But for some as well as some other parts of the world, fashion can only represent culture and cultural, deep messages may be embroidered with the clothes. Don't underestimate how a statement can change a mind. Or a Chicken Soup book may have a story entitled,'Me and Lady Gaga' which appears superficial at first glance, but it is actually a story about coping with tough times, about how strong a human will can be that a human chooses to seek optimism in the music world. The same goes the other way. Something that appears deep, may be superficial in nature. For example, a guru may talk a lot about depth or inspiration but if the guru uses it to limit the liberty of conscience (for example, shame others about their religions or make fun of other cultural expressions as 'superficial') with the intention to appear superior, it may just be superficial talk at the core.

Overall, for me I have the view that the world needs the dual power of idealists and realists. We need the inspired depth and the basic technicalities, however superficial they may be, that gives others basic, simple or dare I say it superficial pleasures. I believe that God created duality for reasons that He know best. We are to value our own strengths, but look at strengths of others whether we choose to self identify ourselves as deep or whathaveyou.

By all means be a future-starter, challenge conventions that make you uncomfortable, be a creative pioneer..but for me to be a truly deep and creative pioneer, one must remember the strengths of many other groups even in making the changes. Of course, the world today needs a lot of change, I would myself like to see much more value placed on creative as well as N thinking.. But I never want to step over the line into 'supremacism' as a poster mentioned.

And if you feel like an outcast, and I know the world can be challenging for us N's, hold on to your ideals, make your voice heard but remember to be gentle with the ideals of others.
 

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I think that the reference to the 'pioneers creating a better future' or words to that effect,
is perhaps a way to feel a bit better about oneself when society in general has downtrodden you.

I admit that in the past, I have been guilty of feeling a bit elitist and subconsciously it was a
way to compensate for having always felt inferior.

So, maybe it is ok to indulge our egos in that kind of thinking now and then.
 

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An idea is just an idea. An the world care doesn't about ideas that can't be made real. Everyone is worried about paying rent and trying to figure out how to be happy. So great, you have an awesome idea. How is that idea going to contribute to anything? Lots of people have ideas, but society cares about ideas that get turned into reality. Even Einstein turned his is idea into a set of math equations that could be shared with the world.

Billions of people have ideas. The world doesn't give you credit for something that everyone else is doing too. Deep is a complete relative term. What's deep to me is worthless to someone else. Everyone has lots of ideas but no one acts or the act and fail and then stop acting on the great idea they had. Society needs people who don't give up when they fail at their idea the first time. Society doesn't need ideas as much as it needs someone with a good idea that's willing to put that idea into action.
 

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I think that the reference to the 'pioneers creating a better future' or words to that effect,
is perhaps a way to feel a bit better about oneself when society in general has downtrodden you.

I admit that in the past, I have been guilty of feeling a bit elitist and subconsciously it was a
way to compensate for having always felt inferior.

So, maybe it is ok to indulge our egos in that kind of thinking now and then.


Not really. IMO the ego doesn't need any stoking because it doesn't need to even be there in the first place. In my experience, it's better to remove all notions of any personality or person being inferior or superior entirely. There really is no such thing. It's all in the mind.
 

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Not really. IMO the ego doesn't need any stoking because it doesn't need to even be there in the first place. In my experience, it's better to remove all notions of any personality or person being inferior or superior entirely. There really is no such thing. It's all in the mind.
I think you missed the point.

If an individual has been outcasted or mistreated in any way, a way to compensate for this may be to
take on an elitist attitude.

Of course, no-one is inferior or superior, but from a survival instinctual stance, it often happens that our ego will go into survival mode.

The key word is COMPENSATE. Like arrogance is really a cover-up for insecurities.


Let's get real - this is not about an ideal but about how we often react when we've experienced painful life
circumstances.
 

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I am being real. That is how I react to such situations in my life. I've had my painful life experiences, but I got through them & that's how I chose to change to deal with similar circumstances in the future.
 

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Anyone, not just an INFP, can be a "pioneer" or "genius" without having an elitist/supremacist attitude.

I love how just because an INFP can identify as a futurist that somehow they get labelled as a supremacist.
Idealists/futurists feel like outcasts because as mentioned above - society doesn't value ideas unless it's a good idea that can be put into action. Not all futurists or idealists are action takers (speaking from experience).

Generally speaking, humans naturally want to belong, be accepted and feel as though they can fit in with others. We want to have purpose and meaning in life which is often reaffirmed by others. If one's purpose is to be an ideas person - and possibly become a pioneer or genius - so be it, nothing wrong with that, being a person with such purpose & ambition does not mean that person thinks more highly of themselves or makes them better than someone with a totally different purpose.

One person's purpose is not better or worse than another's.
 

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Haha i completely agree with your original post - i always feel like im always going deeper and deeper while everyones like wtf why are you reflecting so deeply about this. Then they'll change the conversation and i get sad like damn i talked yalls heads off huh?
 

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Most people I meet have only three ambitions. They want to 1) Be in a relationship, 2) Have a career that will give them a great wage, 3) Be able to enjoy themselves through shopping, travel and whatnot. They don't really much anything else. That is the reality. There aren't that many people who have visions or grand aspirations. We need people who have visions, aspirations and passion to better the world because we wouldn't advance as a society without them.
 

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Mistyped INFJs and ENFPs, the thread.
You mean to say INFPs don't truly subscribe to this (in comparison to INFJs and ENFPs)? Not all of them may, and any type has the chance of becoming an outcast (with some being more prone to this than others) but I'm sorry, I can't help but disagree. As such, I'd like to know your basis for this.
 
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