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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
INFP's need typology because without a way to categorize people and and understand them, everyone else seems like aliens or another species that they don't belong to.

Without it, humanity can seem abrasive, unaccepting and unfriendly.

And most importantly, with enough years of constant regular persecution from society, an INFP can begin to see everyone else as an enemy.

And who can blame them for seeing people that way?

They are told that they fail or that they don't do a good enough job when try their best to do something correctly.

They're told that they are weird or creepy when they try to be friendly.

They don't see ANYONE else going through this type of "social bullying", so what are they supposed to think?

Look at any INFP's history of interactions with other people.

It will not be very bright and colorful.

So of course they're going to be afraid of people without some kind of system proving them otherwise.

And it's not like they ignore the good interactions to make the bad ones seem worse and more frequent.

The last thing an INFP wants is baseless pity.

You can't convince them that they're wrong with just word of mouth why their viewpoint of people isn't true.

After all, you're not them, so therefore you are an enemy. or at least, you might be, and that's reason enough for them.

and they aren't going to listen to words spoken to them by the "enemy".

You can't ask an INFP to open up and change his/her mind about something if they feel like they have to admit "defeat" in order to do so.

Are they wrong? Yes of course they are. You can't disagree that INFP's are often outcasts among society but it is wrong to assume that ALL people will be mean to you just because many people have been in the past.

This of course applies only to unbalanced INFP's who have yet to grow and become stronger. I simply believe that replacing their internal system of thought with typology is a necessary step for them to do so.

Time and time again I have watched INFP's discover the MBTI and as they learn more and more about other types, they slowly realize that all of these nameless categorizations they have formed for different people over the years are incorrect and that people are NOT in fact the enemy, but that they are just different.

An INFP will utilize a system of personality categorization anyway regardless of whether or not they study typology or psychology, so they might as well utilize a system that does not contain any bias like their own internal Fi based categorization systems tend to.
 

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Wow, you really hit the nail on the head there.

I do find though, that even after studying MBTI for a while, I still think of most other people as the enemy. When people tell me to change something about myself, they're probably wrong, and I don't want to lose either. I feel like my way is almost always the way that is more right.

I don't know how to change this, in fact it feels completely wrong inside for me to change it at all, because it feels like what I want is right. Do most people really overcome this problem just by studying the MBTI further?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Wow, you really hit the nail on the head there.

I do find though, that even after studying MBTI for a while, I still think of most other people as the enemy. When people tell me to change something about myself, they're probably wrong, and I don't want to lose either. I feel like my way is almost always the way that is more right.

I don't know how to change this, in fact it feels completely wrong inside for me to change it at all, because it feels like what I want is right. Do most people really overcome this problem just by studying the MBTI further?
people aren't your enemy unless they specifically target you. there is no such thing as someone who is better than other people and someone who is worse, and yet INFP's are the punching bags of people who are trying to make themselves out to look better than everyone else.

your real enemy is the persons insecurity, but not them.

I have been studying typology for 2 years now and it took me this long to really realize that people are not, in fact, evil.

when it comes to opinions and ideas an INFP wants to share, they usually do not end succeeding at saying them forwardly to people.

Many people notice the Fi influenced opinion in INFP's and pretty much blacklist anything the INFP has to say as subjective.

but, that is not the only way an INFP has to have his/her opinions be accepted.

I Am Not A Salesman

As long as you have opinions, someone will challenge them.

There will always be people who challenge who you are and try to change you.

Sometimes those people will be right, sometimes they will be wrong.

It's up to you to have the ability to take in external input and be able to make changes to yourself in necessary but also know when someones opinion is clearly flawed.

It is not a black and white issue though and sometimes a third party opinion is very very helpful.

There are many changes within yourself that your dominant Fi will not want to let happen, but that does not mean they shouldn't happen. You do not necessarily know what is best for yourself 100% of the time, especially since you have never been in the shoes of someone who is not like you.

If some kind of change feels wrong, chances are that wrongness is just unconscious fear and you should evaluate seriously whether or not a change is legitimately needed rather than just saying "this feels wrong so i'm going to trust my gut". It's an infp's gut that makes them fear people in the first place.
 

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I agree... Typeology has opened up an entire new world for me. Now when I don't understand somebody or why the act a certain way I analyze them until I can type them. Then I go read about them....and try to understand. This has improved my relationship with several people that I never really "got" or just didn't like. I don't want people to be the enemy....I want to understand and accept people for who they are just as I hope they'd do the same for me.
 

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They're told that they are weird or creepy when they try to be friendly.

God yes! That's my early history with women. I learned to be ashamed of being attracted to girls and also to discard my natural desire to be upfront and honest with strangers. I started to stop myself from being nice, because I thought people would think I'm gay or 'weak'. Thank god I met a cool girlfriend who responded lovingly to my sincere interest and caring attention. It fails miserably with so many people, but with that right one it is the greatest thing in the world to be yourself and have someone love you for it. Awesome thread!
 

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They're told that they are weird or creepy when they try to be friendly.

God yes! That's my early history with women. I learned to be ashamed of being attracted to girls and also to discard my natural desire to be upfront and honest with strangers. I started to stop myself from being nice, because I thought people would think I'm gay or 'weak'. Thank god I met a cool girlfriend who responded lovingly to my sincere interest and caring attention. It fails miserably with so many people, but with that right one it is the greatest thing in the world to be yourself and have someone love you for it. Awesome thread!
Amen to that! I'm told I'm "gay" when I act friendly as well, so I purposely try to pull back, which makes me even more awkward, and...yeah...
 

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Yes, you are absolutely right about having internal categorization methods based on persecutory experiences which eventually had to be replaced by the MBTI in order for tolerance to be possible.

...at least in my case.
See, when I was younger, I felt a lot of pressure to be the exact opposite of myself, and while that just wasn't happenin' no matter how hard anyone pushed, I began to see certain qualities as evil if they were repeatedly present in the persecutors.

For example, those who treated me like I was stuck up when I felt socially awkward, who used "outgoing" as a positive term and assumed the opposite was a flaw, or who made me sit in crowded classrooms despite the fact that I was overstimulated from constant noise and negative interpersonal contact... those people all had something in common, and I knew that their difference was what made them threatening, even before I knew what extroversion was.

I knew that some people didn't care what was good or right, hated my creativity, wanted me to be more practical, to stop daydreaming, to be "down to earth," to act like an obedient little drone, to organize my belongings in an uncomfortable way that made me feel confined, to do things according to a schedule that limited my ability to experience any sincere emotional attachment to what I was doing, to be dull and useful, doing mundane things that killed my spirit, to be "responsible" instead of real, and I knew that they all had something in common before I had ever heard of an SJ type.

I knew that some people hated my sensitivity, considered cruelty less of a crime than weakness, thought emotional authenticity deserved to be punished and crushed out of anyone who displayed it, ignored what I had to say if I showed any sign of caring or being emotionally invested in the topic, and in my mind, I linked these qualities with the other oppressive, limiting qualities. I didn't know what a T type was, and I thought it was part of the same thing as whatever the SJ types were. Whatever they were, they wanted to destroy me.

I used to use "logical" as though it could mean either SJ or T, and I used "popular" as the negative term to describe the E. These were all hostile toward me.

Then I discovered the MBTI at the age of 15. Things started making more sense. The qualities themselves weren't bad. What was bad was that the people who had them didn't know that my personality wasn't a flaw. Even after I understood this fact, it took me a long time to internalize it, and on some level, I still feel that INFPs are superior to the other types. If I didn't, I guess I would be something else.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yes, you are absolutely right about having internal categorization methods based on persecutory experiences which eventually had to be replaced by the MBTI in order for tolerance to be possible.

...at least in my case.
See, when I was younger, I felt a lot of pressure to be the exact opposite of myself, and while that just wasn't happenin' no matter how hard anyone pushed, I began to see certain qualities as evil if they were repeatedly present in the persecutors.

For example, those who treated me like I was stuck up when I felt socially awkward, who used "outgoing" as a positive term and assumed the opposite was a flaw, or who made me sit in crowded classrooms despite the fact that I was overstimulated from constant noise and negative interpersonal contact... those people all had something in common, and I knew that their difference was what made them threatening, even before I knew what extroversion was.

I knew that some people didn't care what was good or right, hated my creativity, wanted me to be more practical, to stop daydreaming, to be "down to earth," to act like an obedient little drone, to organize my belongings in an uncomfortable way that made me feel confined, to do things according to a schedule that limited my ability to experience any sincere emotional attachment to what I was doing, to be dull and useful, doing mundane things that killed my spirit, to be "responsible" instead of real, and I knew that they all had something in common before I had ever heard of an SJ type.

I knew that some people hated my sensitivity, considered cruelty less of a crime than weakness, thought emotional authenticity deserved to be punished and crushed out of anyone who displayed it, ignored what I had to say if I showed any sign of caring or being emotionally invested in the topic, and in my mind, I linked these qualities with the other oppressive, limiting qualities. I didn't know what a T type was, and I thought it was part of the same thing as whatever the SJ types were. Whatever they were, they wanted to destroy me.

I used to use "logical" as though it could mean either SJ or T, and I used "popular" as the negative term to describe the E. These were all hostile toward me.
This is pretty much me before typology verbatim.

If it weren't for the social persecution, INFP's would probably form much more neutral "labels" for people who are different than themselves, but unfortunately they tend to be mostly negative labels. and once they have all these negative labels surrounding them, the world can seem like a very scary place to live in.

It isn't bigotry, it's normal human defensive behavior.

When someone tries to hurt you, it is natural to assume that they are bad or against you.

the only credit I really give the mbti is that it shows that people are equal. everyone has strengths and everyone has weaknesses. without this system, it's easy to believe other people who try to convince you or make it appear that certain kinds of people are superior.

most importantly, it shows you that if someone does something negative against you, they are doing it for a reason probably unrelated to you. not because they are evil or a bad person.
 

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I struggle to understand how can anyone fail to be fascinated by the personality types and not want to learn more and more once they hear about it.

I was with an ISTJ the other day talking to other friends and he made me feel ridiculous about mentioning it, like if it was tarot or astrology or some other mumbo jumbo someone as ilogical as me could be attracted to. I can see him roll his eyes every time I mention it, like he is embarrassed.
 

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Flora, that's the kind of response I get, too. I feel like the more I try to explain myself, in an attempt to be understood and get a little validation, the more illogical and unbalanced my extended family thinks I am. It makes me want to just sever ties with them. Or at least limit my conversations with them to, "So, what did you have for dinner last night?" Because a long drawn out discussion about how the peas were cooked is more logical to them than me going on about personality type.
 

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Flora, that's the kind of response I get, too. I feel like the more I try to explain myself, in an attempt to be understood and get a little validation, the more illogical and unbalanced my extended family thinks I am. It makes me want to just sever ties with them. Or at least limit my conversations with them to, "So, what did you have for dinner last night?" Because a long drawn out discussion about how the peas were cooked is more logical to them than me going on about personality type.
Yeah absolutely. And he has absolutely no need to understand people. Understand what? He is not concerned or even bothered with what people think, he seems to just "glide" through social interactions, never getting involved, only superficially.

My extended family are all sensors and they make me feel like I am trapped in a Henry James novel where nothing ever gets explained or said, storms brewing inside and people just asking if you fancy another cup of tea.

I mentioned the personality types ones and there was a bit of eyes rolling..frowning in a "what?" way..polite oh really and then the conversation moved to the much more comfortable territory of: Anne widdecombe in strictly come dancing last night on TV.

I feel like an alien hahaha
 

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I become more certain with each passing day that I AM an alien!!:tongue:

My extended family (on my husband's side) all read a lot and pride themselves on being intelligent people. And they are, but it's like we aren't on the same plane. They're very straight-laced and believe in adhering to rules of decent behavior. Not a bad thing, right? But it's like they think everyone is the same, and people who make mistakes or don't see things the same way they do are in need of enlightenment.
I fall into this group.

If I was more enlightened and got my mind right, I could be just like them!! And that's such a grand goal, there must me something wrong with me for not aspiring to it.

I find them to be rather self-righteous. I have had some problems in my life, and some of them are the result of trying to adapt to living with an ESTJ, but nobody sees him as connected in any way for my difficulties. He's one of them and they're all okay, so it must be me.

Yeah, they can just keep telling themselves that. :frustrating:
 

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If you think about it, it's pretty obvious - MBTI is a shortcut. It's a shortcut to understanding people if you haven't by now. Think of all the INFPs that came before the MBTI was invented? Were they just hopelessly lost? No, I don't believe so. I think if you are observant and get out there into the world, an INFP can understand this and much more without a test system to guide his/her thoughts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I struggle to understand how can anyone fail to be fascinated by the personality types and not want to learn more and more once they hear about it.

I was with an ISTJ the other day talking to other friends and he made me feel ridiculous about mentioning it, like if it was tarot or astrology or some other mumbo jumbo someone as ilogical as me could be attracted to. I can see him roll his eyes every time I mention it, like he is embarrassed.
He's intimidated by it because he can't understand people like you do. they may put on a front of "well that's stupid so there's no reason for me to understand it." but it's easy to see past that
 

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Pretty right on. One thing though. Maybe it's just me, but I don't and never did think of any type of people as the "enemy." People are inept, confused, incompetent, heartless, cruel, incapable of seeing past face value, and all sorts of other things. In other words, they are flawed, but never (well, rarely) enemy.

I mean, some people shoot at each other. They have to be somebody's enemy.
 

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He's intimidated by it because he can't understand people like you do. they may put on a front of "well that's stupid so there's no reason for me to understand it." but it's easy to see past that
You reckon? I have a feeling that that requires a lot of self awareness and I dont think that's the case, I think it's more of a genuine lack of interest because for them it's something useless and meaningless. They might have a need to understand how to fix a boiler so the pressure doesn't go to low when the hot water kicks in, but people's cognitive processes..? why on earth would they "need" to know that?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
You reckon? I have a feeling that that requires a lot of self awareness and I dont think that's the case, I think it's more of a genuine lack of interest because for them it's something useless and meaningless. They might have a need to understand how to fix a boiler so the pressure doesn't go to low when the hot water kicks in, but people's cognitive processes..? why on earth would they "need" to know that?
it would require self awareness if it were a conscious thought. it could possibly be an unconscious thought and affect the person just the same.

you don't need to understand other people around you, but if it's apparent that the people around you are different than you, you can either choose to understand why or choose to assume the reason why. and that reason of course is almost always incorrect. it can also lead to someone seeing people who are different than themselves as abnormal.

human perspective is flawed in the sense that you only have one angle to view other people from. utilizing typology helps correct this flaw.

you don't need typology to accept people for being different but typology helps make it easier to do.
 

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I struggle to understand how can anyone fail to be fascinated by the personality types and not want to learn more and more once they hear about it.
I know! i don't know why, but this I somehow view this information (rightly or wrongly) as the most profound and important stuff I have ever come across. I mean, we life in a world of human relationships, acts, and creations, everything a human thought, felt, created or did, sprang from a human mind, and every human mind is (in part) literally created by the Jungian functions. It has a very profound affect on the way people function, what they do, how they effect the world, and how they behave. It is like the seed from which the whole human world springs, and for all people, the human world is literally everything! We are all people!

After that fateful day when I clicked on that seemingly wayward link, glasses through which I viewed life changed completely...
 
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